Yet another confirming study.......

[hairsuit]

Altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene in cerebrospinal fluid of post-finasteride patients: a pilot study. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[hairsuit]

The more I read this, the more depressed it makes me. The fact that we could have permanently changed our genetic structure is defeating. The hope we have is that others have improved. And so we keep fighting.

 

[RebelWithACause]

The more I read this, the more depressed it makes me. The fact that we could have permanently changed our genetic structure is defeating. The hope we have is that others have improved. And so we keep fighting.

Plenty of guys recovered. That says enough. They can throw studies at us for 100 years who cares. We will get better!

 

[Helen]

@hairsuit @Trump_1776

Sometimes I think Melcangi is just wasting time on purpose.LOL

56% had overmethylated 5AR2 gene. DUH. those people are fast oxidizers. of course they have overmethylated 5AR2, they have low DHT in blood. and always had it low. even before PFS and even at birth.

these people were born with it. IMO. It has nothing to do with PFS. since if it had anything to do with PFS then tested group would have 95% occurance of methylated 5AR2 , and not 50/50 basically

 

[RebelWithACause]

Melcangi getting that PFS money

 

[Niles]

@hairsuit @Trump_1776

Sometimes I think Melcangi is just wasting time on purpose.LOL

56% had overmethylated 5AR2 gene. DUH. those people are fast oxidizers. of course they have overmethylated 5AR2, they have low DHT in blood. and always had it low. even before PFS and even at birth.

these people were born with it. IMO. It has nothing to do with PFS. since if it had anything to do with PFS then tested group would have 95% occurance of methylated 5AR2 , and not 50/50 basically

I was thinking the same, except it is significant that the control group had a far lower percentage of methylated 5AR2. I bet these guys did have these epigenetic properties from birth, but maybe it has made them more susceptible to PFS.

 

[Helen]

I was thinking the same, except it is significant that the control group had a far lower percentage of methylated 5AR2. I bet these guys did have these epigenetic properties from birth, but maybe it has made them more susceptible to PFS.

It is hard to tell, since both had PFS with methylated and none methylated 5AR2. this tells you that methylated 5AR2 has nothing to with PFS, meaning PFS is not because this is overmethylated. otherwise control group would have symptoms also.

may be more people crash on average with lower DHT levels as they crash faster., thus the tested group had more of a 50/50 setup. that can be. IMO

SO yes, it could predispose them to a faster crash since finasteride might not be made for low DHT people. and is made for high dht people and on average those people don't crash for a long time, on finasteride, or crash when they come off. And thus their population might be lower on average. since most are still on it. and not doing bad

 

[hairsuit]

It is hard to tell, since both had PFS with methylated and none methylated 5AR2. this tells you that methylated 5AR2 has nothing to with PFS, meaning PFS is not because this is overmethylated. otherwise control group would have symptoms also.

may be more people crash on average with lower DHT levels as they crash faster., thus the tested group had more of a 50/50 setup. that can be. IMO

SO yes, it could predispose them to a faster crash since finasteride might not be made for low DHT people. and is made for high dht people and on average those people don't crash for a long time, on finasteride, or crash when they come off. And thus their population might be lower on average. since most are still on it. and not doing bad

That scenario describes me perfectly. The low DHT end to begin with. Fast metabolizer. It this brings us back to our original conundrum. We’ve done the damage, but it obviously isn’t as simple as “just increase DHT” because we would reversal in all those cases. It also goes to show, with low DHT like this, hairloss should be stopped in its tracks, and yet it’s not. There are so many angles to concentrate on here.

 

[RebelWithACause]

That scenario describes me perfectly. The low DHT end to begin with. Fast metabolizer. It this brings us back to our original conundrum. We’ve done the damage, but it obviously isn’t as simple as “just increase DHT” because we would reversal in all those cases. It also goes to show, with low DHT like this, hairloss should be stopped in its tracks, and yet it’s not. There are so many angles to concentrate on here.

Did you ever try R-Andro or AndroHard?

I tried R-Andro in the beginning of PFS for 1 day and felt cured from (at least) mental sides instantly. Had no hairloss either. Like I was just missing DHT. Other guy on here too Fast Oxidizer had the same.

Could be something else causing hairloss than DHT. I think low iron and low DHT can also cause hairloss.

Although now I have changed in Slow 4 oxidizer I thought maybe finasteride puts some people in a fast oxidation stilt body chemistry. I guess I will see next test.

 

[Helen]

That scenario describes me perfectly. The low DHT end to begin with. Fast metabolizer. It this brings us back to our original conundrum. We’ve done the damage, but it obviously isn’t as simple as “just increase DHT” because we would reversal in all those cases. It also goes to show, with low DHT like this, hairloss should be stopped in its tracks, and yet it’s not. There are so many angles to concentrate on here.

did you test your hormones? So you had low DHT before fin, and low DHT now?

5AR inhibitors effects tons of hormones at once, not just DHT, I have no idea why people forget that.

It effects aldosterone., cortisol, gaba neurosteroids. liver detox

look 5α-Reductase - Wikipedia

just take

• Aldosterone → 5α-Dihydroaldosterone

this aldosterone metabolite retains sodium, when you eat salt, it goes down, when you dont eat salt it goes up. SO it effects aldosterone receptors.


hairloss has nothing to do with DHT. or its level. or androgen receptor for that matter. for some people.

 

[vicecaz]

Why being so pessimistic, that's not even rational
As stated above, plenty have recovered, what else do you need?

We don't need to understand exactly what happened

 

[Helen]

Did you ever try R-Andro or AndroHard?

I tried R-Andro in the beginning of PFS for 1 day and felt cured from (at least) mental sides instantly. Had no hairloss either. Like I was just missing DHT. Other guy on here too Fast Oxidizer had the same.

Could be something else causing hairloss than DHT. I think low iron and low DHT can also cause hairloss.

Although now I have changed in Slow 4 oxidizer I thought maybe finasteride puts some people in a fast oxidation stilt body chemistry. I guess I will see next test.

DHT puts calcium in the cell. Nitric oxide synthase is calcium activated enzyme. So low DHT can also cause hairloss. and thus fast oxidizers dont really lose hair on it. Nitric oxide synthase - Wikipedia

 

[MNK99]

The more I read this, the more depressed it makes me. The fact that we could have permanently changed our genetic structure is defeating. The hope we have is that others have improved. And so we keep fighting.

Try not to think about it too much. Ignoring as much as I could helped me at the most critical stages.
Also, if I read everything (tho I do read a lot about a lot of different subjects including how i'm fucked at times), I'd go crazy. Surely, epigenetic changes exist from everything.
Addictions, bad relationships, moving in emergencies, Effexor, Finasteride, lots of other drugs. I no longer am hopeless at all for PFS, let alone "M.D. I.I." (BPII).

I've seen progress in asthma, insomnia (not always... I'm pretty high strung/wired), etc, things I thought would always be kind of the same.

I mean during extended water fast, I was not online much. And during times where I started TEI, this and that.
Don't worry man.

 

[Admiral]

I try not to worry, either, but PFS caused such a domino affect that my body deteriorates at a rapid pace. I have co-workers of 65 years old who worry about newly acquired health issues I've already come across years ago. I need a working formula quite fast or else I am not sure I can keep up much longer. I've lost faith in TEI/ARL but at least it gave me calmness in the sense that I don't need to worry about other protocols.

 

[5 alpha]

I was thinking the same, except it is significant that the control group had a far lower percentage of methylated 5AR2. I bet these guys did have these epigenetic properties from birth, but maybe it has made them more susceptible to PFS.

I agree with the points being made here. A best it's an indicator of being more susceptible to getting PFS. The 16 percent of control group also having methylated would have PFS symptoms. Also just like you guys said there would be higher percentage of the PFS group having methylated 5AR2 Instead of almost being 50/50. Also there was another study that looked at this already and found nothing in the PFS group as far as issues with encoding gene correct? one of the big studies from either harvard or brigham with a larger PFS group which further backs the point about this almost 50/50 finding.

also I don't think it's about DHT levels prior to PFS but rather "what our bodies do with the DHT" levels that we did have prior to PFS. I have read here many times that DHT has nothing to do with hair loss and I have all almost all of my hair minus a minor receding hairline that started receding when I was like eighteen years old just never got worse. So the hair loss thing I have no experience with. But I can relate to feeling as if my body "responded in a strong way" to what ever my DHT levels I did have prior to PFS in other ways though. Such as enlarged prostate at twenty two years old which is why I was put on dutersterdie at twenty two years old, I was always always getting bad acne and have always had and still do grow thick facial hair fast. So I find it hard to believe that I had any type of "low hormonal level" issue prior to PFS. I think it was more about how I responded to the average levels of hormones that I did have which points to receptor issues

 

[bruschi11]

@hairsuit don’t get too down about something like this and please don’t start losing hope.

One thing that has really sucked for you is that you drank hydrogen and i think it really bit you in the ass for awhile there. Sure you didn’t get killed by it like me and get into a major cfs and digestive issues.

But if it did something that badly to me, I’m sure it hit some sort of balance of your body and skewed it, keeping you from the progress you desperately deserved. You’ve been going at this hard and methodically. Don’t stop. Not for one day. Keep eyes on promised land my friend because I know it’s out there.

Maybe look into gut bacteria a bit. Hydrogen could’ve hit you hard there as it did to me. Organic acids testing is really great. Nutreval does both organic acids and minerals/ vitamins in blood in and urine. Great Plains does great organic acids test. These are things you should look into in addition to the hair test.

 

[hairsuit]

Gentleman, definitely not out of the fight. Not in the least. Just a temporary pause where you ask yourself, “have I done irreparable damage?” There is still a lot I haven’t tried, like r-andro etc. in fact I haven’t tried anything hormonally. Mostly out of fear of it trashing my hair. All that to say, it encouraging seeing everyone making steps, no matter how small, to beating this thing. And we are doing just that.

 

[snowball]

I have PFS sides for a long time now and strongly believe it is completely repairable, period.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

The more I read this, the more depressed it makes me. The fact that we could have permanently changed our genetic structure is defeating. The hope we have is that others have improved. And so we keep fighting.

Epigenetics mate ! Epigenetics ! If drug can change genetic structure, that's mean that you can reverse it. Your future and health is not determined, you can ,,shape'' it. Head up.

 

[hairsuit]

Epigenetics mate ! Epigenetics ! If drug can change genetic structure, that's mean that you can reverse it. Your future and health is not determined, you can ,,shape'' it. Head up.

I know it! And we will. Appreciate ya!