Yet Another interesting brain nootropic - Emoxypine Succinate

[joekool]

As I dig deeper into the rabbit hole that Dihydromyricetin has thrust me into, I find yet another vitamin B6 derivative called Emoxypine... Now I want to list some points here of what I'm researching:

1) I've read that overdoing vit B6, it can cause neuropathy and make your dick feel like paralyzed. I try to limit supplements containing this at the moment.
2) I continue to research Sulbutiamine and it's effect of INCREASING the density of D1 dopamine receptors, which is an issue for us in PFS. My concern here is that, in theory, one might feel VERY bad on Sulbutiamine due to it's original blocking of dopamine and reach a level of depression of self harm, which is not something I can recommend to just anyone.
3) Further GABA understanding and it's effects: For example, Xanax before bed was something I originally tried to return nocturnal erections. I can't say it helped as this was within weeks of crashing and nothing worked... but Xanax releases GABA which is needed to relax & we lacked that hence loss of sleep and anxiety... and you can forget getting an erection in this state.
4) Choline has always been a staple and safely helped me. I still highly recommend just plain choline.

So I found another Russian investigated product called Emoxypine Succinate... Look at # 6 & # 8

Modes of action:

Emoxypine is an effective antioxidant with additional membrane-protecting effects. According to the Russian website providing information on the compound, it acts through several key mechanisms. These include:

1. Inhibiting free radical oxidation (scavenging effects)
2. Increasing the activity of endogenous antioxidant enzymes (for example, superoxide dismutase)
3. Inhibiting free radical synthesis in several biochemical systems (for example, during the synthesis of prostaglandin)
4. Regulating lipids in the body (for example, reducing the cholesterol to phospholipid ratio and shifting structure transition into low-temperature zones)
5. Modulating the activity of membrane receptors like phosphodiesterase, cyclic nucleotides, adenylate cyclase, aldoreductase, and acetylcholinesterase.
6. Increasing the binding ability of benzodiazepine, GABA, and acetylcholine receptors
7. Providing stability to membrane structures
8. Increasing dopamine and monoamine synthesis in the brain[3]

Animal studies indicated that the compound is effective at reducing the products of lipid peroxidation, including low-density lipoproteins (LDLs) and total cholesterol.[4] Further, studies have indicated that the compound has effective inhibitory effects on the aggregation of blood platelets (anti-clotting effects).[5] Finally, studies have indicated a dose-dependent increase in average coronary blood flow.[6]


This was found on this site but I've found non-stores supporting this list so I don't want to discount the list just because they're trying to sell EMOXY:

Emoxypine Succinate (Mexidol)



So, I had a private convo with someone regarding alcohol in a PFS state and, when they brought it to my attention again, I recall during initial PFS, alcohol didn't have the affect as it once did... and I will state, as of late, like since December-ish, Alcohol has almost gone back to 'working' on me... I don't want to infer anything from that nor put it in stone, but it's related.

It would stand to reason to not mix sulbutiamine with emoxy as one blocks and the latter increases dopamine but maybe a 1 month blocking and 1 month increasing could be a tool. We know dopamine & gaba affect ability to have an erection & those that suffer from PFS but can have nocturnal erections typically mean it's neurological and not mechanical related. And if you can't have nocturnal erections from PFS, this still would be the good first start to improve sleep & nocturnal hormone release. The penile functional improvements may then come into light.

Food for thought

 

[Helen]

Sulbutiamine increases NADPH which increases 5AR/. it increases acetylcholine which then upregulates D1 receptor.

b6 increases dopamine production. and increases histamine production.


B1 vitamin or sulbuthiamine which is also b1 or benfo also works., increases NADPH and increases 5AR.

this is why I used it after fin crash. right away along with potassium.



Also hormones regulate neurotransmitters. not the opposite.


Estrogen increases copper in the cell, which converts dopamine into noradrenaline for instance.

Testosterone increases iron , which increases dopamine production.


When you sleep you have no activation of sympathetic nervous system. less activation, that is why you have more erections.

and when you wake up, your adrenaline system is activated fully and you have shrinkage, since sugar metabolism is closed down since it would produce NADPH)) and increase DHT.



If the body is trying to fight high DHT. or too sensitive DHT, it closes down production of NADPH, ( b1 is the main player in this , since B1 increases transkelotase)


this is why in PFS in half of the cases we have totally shut down INSULIN. since insulin increases NADPH and g6pd which produces NADPH, and NADPH is the substrate for 5AR


This is why when you take FIN, fin binds NADPH. and the body increases INSULIN to produce more of NADPH. to fight finasteride binding to NADPH.

then when you quit Finasteride. YOUR receptors are super sensitive, and in half of the cases, the body just simply SHUTS down all SUGAR metabolism not to produce NADPH< this is what the crash is..

this is why we see super low insulin in half of the cases in PFS


Since insulin is shut down. then body has to use only fats for energy , thus you have your turtling, shrinkage and all other stuff. since your dopamine is basically excessively converts into noradrenaline and adrenaline to get to fatty acids.

this why during any stress, going to the bathroom, waking up , you will have too little dopamine OVERALL.



This is why I used B1( benfo) in my case, since B1 along with potassium , increased my 5AR and kept it steady, and did not allow the body to shut down 5AR function.

Potassium pushed insulin production, and B1 pushed NADPH production, which stopped 5AR from shutting down, and this forced receptors to downregulate


In most people. basically, if AR is overexpressed, body just shuts down insulin and NADPH production.

Without NADPH, you cant protect your red blood cells, and you get anemia.( this is what crash is) and your folic acid goes to zero. along with b12

Now as folic acid goes to zero, since to make tetrafolate you need NADPH. but remember body closed down production of NADPH.

Since there is zero tetrafolate , body loses histidine into the urine. And since histidine is not there, your b6 cant work. since b6 converts histidine into histamine.

 

[freeflow]

Sulbutiamine increases NADPH which increases 5AR/. it increases acetylcholine which then upregulates D1 receptor.




When you sleep you have no activation of sympathetic nervous system. less activation, that is why you have more erections.

and when you wake up, your adrenaline system is activated fully and you have shrinkages, since sugar metabolism is closed down since it would produce NADPH)) and increase DHT.

Man, when I sleep the cold hands and feet go away always, I have erections all night and i would say in the dreams some nights i even have emotions but its rather rare.
Then after waking up in 5 minutes the hands and feet go cold and everything worsens.

Interestingly TEI and ARL writes im parasymp dominant but I experience sympathetic dominance symptoms mostly.
Or they mean my symp system is burnt out?

 

[Helen]

Man, when I sleep the cold hands and feet go away always, I have erections all night and i would say in the dreams some nights i even have emotions but its rather rare.
Then after waking up in 5 minutes the hands and feet go cold and everything worsens.

Interestingly TEI and ARL writes im parasymp dominant but I experience sympathetic dominance symptoms mostly.
Or they mean my symp system is burnt out?

yes, this means that sugar metabolism does not work in you . and the minute you wake up, boom there is increased conversion of dopamine into noradrenaline.

 

[freeflow]

yes, this means that sugar metabolism does not work in you . and the minute you wake up, boom there is increased conversion of dopamine into noradrenaline.

and sugar metabolism works during the night? I have this cold hand and feet since way before pfs, started around the age of 13-14.

I remember when i took the first pill of R andro, cold hands and feet went away, body temp was higher.

 

[Helen]

@joekool you dont have high DHT. you have low hormones. you are case number 1


this is why the minute you use anavar which blocks your ARs in the brain. Body increases 5AR by increasing NADPH production. and your insulin goes up and all the shrinkage and everything goes away.

5AR works on NADPH, when NADPH goes up, it increases.

SO when you take finasteride, it binds NADPH. your body increased insulin production to make more NADPH. and your sugar and thyroid were working on finasteride.

since DHT was suppressed, body upregulated AR expression


and now you go off, finasteride. what happens? since AR is overexpressed, the body has to lower 5AR , and to do that it kills production of NADPH

it switches off insulin . and now your sugar metabolism is done. and your antioxidation is also DONE> since NADPH protects your red bloods cells.


Since sugar metabolism is switched off. you run on fats. and that is basically like fight or flight all the time.

This is why you have turtling and other stuff


that is why in this case. intranasal insulin would take away most of the symptoms if you take it together with potassium.


And potassium plus b1 increases insulin, and NADPH , and restores sugar metabolism.

you also would need histidine with it.

This is what I did when I crashed, and I got restored with 1 month , it is in my log.


Pyroluria treatment is zinc , b1 , b6, HDAC inhibitor and manganese plus electroltes

 

[Helen]

and sugar metabolism works during the night? I have this cold hand and feet since way before pfs, started around the age of 13-14.

I remember when i took the first pill of R andro, cold hands and feet went away, body temp was higher.

no it does not work during the night, but you need very few resources during the night

so your dopamine to noradrenaline activation is not that high.

but once you get up and move. that requires TONS of resources and activation goes 2-3 fold.

 

[freeflow]

no it does not work during the night, but you need very few resources during the night

so your dopamine to noradrenaline activation is not that high.

but once you get up and move. that requires TONS of resources and activation goes 2-3 fold.

Interestingly, there are some random occasions when my hands warm up after eating.
For example if i do a working out session and dont eat for 3-4 hours after it. Then I have the dinner and veins dilate on my hands and hands are warming up.

This phenomenon was more common after my long waterfast but still happens sometimes even without working out.

 

[Helen]

without NADPH there will be no Nitric oxide production.

 

[Helen]

@joekool LOL, I did not realize that Emoxypine is simple Mexidol.


Mexidol is used in russia in every clinic. I had like 40-50 IVs with it when I got sick with PFS. At that time I did not know anything about medicine, and def did not know what Mexidol was



there is zero reason to use it since there is P5P and also benfotiamine for B1.. which are easily accesible. and active b6 does not cause b6 toxicity since is taken in small amounts.

 

[Orion]

Since sugar metabolism is switched off. you run on fats. and that is basically like fight or flight all the time.

This is why you have turtling and other stuff


that is why in this case. intranasal insulin would take away most of the symptoms if you take it together with potassium.


And potassium plus b1 increases insulin, and NADPH , and restores sugar metabolism.

you also would need histidine with it.

This is what I did when I crashed, and I got restored with 1 month , it is in my log.


Pyroluria treatment is zinc , b1 , b6, HDAC inhibitor and manganese plus electroltes

You have wrote this before, but this stack would probably treat PAS(accutane), people with severe skin/eyes symptoms.

Pyroluria treatment is zinc , b1 , b6, HDAC inhibitor and manganese plus electroltes

 

[vicecaz]

@Orion

What makes you think so?
This protocol sparked my interest too when I first read it
I ordered Sodium Butyrate last week, and got the other components already at hand except for the managanese

 

[Orion]

@Orion

What makes you think so?
This protocol sparked my interest too when I first read it
I ordered Sodium Butyrate last week, and got the other components already at hand except for the managanese

Studies show that accutane depletes B1, so you run on fat metabolism(impaired sugar metabolism), this uses up all fats(dry skin and eyes).

High dose B1(1600mg/day) is the fix, but as mentioned by @Helen it should be part of that stack.

 

[Helen]

@Orion Accutane activates liver X receptor which causes androgen deprivation same as fin.

After you quit accutane. your receptor is overexpressed. same as after 5 AR inhibitor


this is why your goal is to keep AR receptor strong and at the same time increase 5AR.

this will downregulate density of the receptor.

this is why if you take manganese this increase NADPH along with B1, since that is what pentose cycle runs on.

and if you take Zinc ,( normal dosage and B6 active, you will get zinc plus cysteine(( since b6 increases cysteine in the body )

Zinc plus cysteine is the attachement of the ARs to DNA. so basically if you increase those, your ARs attach better to the DNA, and this makes the AR stronger acting.

thus zinc plus b6 lower 5AR by making the receptor stronger.


but this will lower your NADPH even further, and that is why peopel feel like shit on zinc.

but if you add manganese or B1 to it. then zinc by making AR stronger wont be able to lower 5AR, since B1 will increase 5AR

And basically you put AR into the squeeze,

from one side you made it stronger with zinc and active b6.

and from another side you increase DHT levels with b1 and manganese.

And boom there is no other way out but to downregulate the DENSITY of the AR



Same can be down with HDAC inhibitors.


or you can juts destroy AR with sulphoraphane. Which is what I did.

So much easier, it is much better and easier to rebuild the AR than to destroy overexpressed density


You LOAD on sulphoraphane for 3 days, really high dosages. you will feel that it will totally destroy your ARs

you will feel like totally shit.


And then you drop it. and feed Bs multi or eat well, and you see yourself get better and better and better.

since the body starts raising insulin and NADPH production. and everything comes back on line. like your anxiety goes away, since 5AR rises, and your strength increases.

In one cycle you will see that you will be restored like 50%.


after every load you will feel improving by DOING ZERO.

At first you feel like the truck hit you , since you kill over expression of the AR, and insulin and 5AR are down still.

but then you feel daily they are coming back more and more online

I actually helped my insulin with potassium magnesium manganese electrolytes, B vitamins so it restores faster.

 

[sanka]

@Helen how much should be the dosage for sulforaphane?

 

[Helen]

@Helen how much should be the dosage for sulforaphane?

if you use it in a wrong body chemistry it can hurt you. I dont know your tests.

 

[joekool]

@sanka i would not suggest using Sulforaphane as it decreases AR in prostate.

Sulforaphane increases the efficacy of anti-androgens by rapidly decreasing androgen receptor levels in prostate cancer cells. - PubMed - NCBI

This is opposite of what we want

 

[Helen]

@sanka i would not suggest using Sulforaphane as it decreases AR in prostate.

Sulforaphane increases the efficacy of anti-androgens by rapidly decreasing androgen receptor levels in prostate cancer cells. - PubMed - NCBI

This is opposite of what we want

this is exactly what I said, it destroys AR.

And people have recovered with it from PFS on propeciahelp


People have huge prostate pains, which were taken away and went away from sulphoraphane

 

[Helen]

@joekool

It’s been a while and hope you are all doing well. I haven’t been on the forum for a bit and wanted to give an update on a little trial I did using sulforaphane that has yielded some interesting results. First off, I want to give a disclaimer that this is my own personal experience and it is likely that other people will not have the same experience as me. That said, I have experienced a noticeable improvement across a number of factors, in some areas more and some areas less.
I decided to try sulforaphane because you can get it without a prescription and I was able to find a very high quality dietary supplement. The product I used was BroccoProtect made by a company called Designs for Health. Here is a link to a place that sells it, although there are cheaper places to find it on the internet as well:
vnfnutrition.com/phpshop/index.p … OgodUBoAUQ 7
I picked this version because after doing some research I found that it was manufactured to a very high standard and had the highest concentration of sulforaphane of any of the other supplements out there. In fact, some of the other similar broccoli extract products claiming to have sulforaphane had only 0.2% of the amount of sulforaphane as BroccoProtect. I mention this to stress that supplements are highly variable in quality and you need to make sure you are getting what you pay for.
Being that one capsule of BroccoProtect has 50mg and sulforaphane has a short half-life, I started off talking 4 capsules a day for a week (one at 8am, 1pm, 6pm, and 11pm). When I was confident I could tolerate this and wasn’t having any negative side effects I increased this to 1.-2 capsules at each of those time points eventually reaching 2 capsules (8 capsules in a day). After doing this for two weeks total I didn’t experience any improvement so decided to take a break.
During this time I reviewed the papers I referenced at the start of this thread, and realized that they typically just did a short treatment upfront, and this was sufficient to confer a persisting effect of resensitization to hormone. I thought that maybe it wasn’t as important to maintain steady state levels of sulforaphane, but rather to reach a concentration high enough for the compound to reach therapeutic levels and cause an acetylation event to occur. So I switched my strategy to instead take a larger single dose instead of multiple doses over an extended period of time. Warning: as with any pharmaceutical product, taking higher than the recommended dose can be very dangerous I started off with a single dose of 8 capsules at one time (400mg sulforaphane total) which I felt comfortable doing because I had already reached 8 capsules in one day spread out without significant side effects. After this single dose I stopped and observed. I didn’t notice anything right away. A few weeks later I took 10 capsules. Again I didn’t notice any immediate objective differences but after a couple weeks I started to notice a few changes:

• Noctural erections started coming back. Whereas previous I would rarely get erections when I went to sleep I started to get them again sporadically. Certainly not to pre-fin levels but much more than previously
• Erection quality began to improve. This is probably this biggest noticeable change. Post fin I would say I was around 50-60% of the stiffness of pre-fin–when I did get erections they were softer and more difficult to maintain. Now I would say I am at about 80-90%, occasionally reaching close to 100% on good days–and they last for longer.
• Watery semen–this was also greatly reduced and I would say it is about 60-70% of what I would consider normal
• Morning erections are more consistent
• Spontaneous erections are also more frequent. Pre-fin I would get spontaneous erections ~5-8x a day. Post-fin it was virtually 0. I would estimate now I’m at 2-3.

Side effects: at the higher dose I definitely started to notice some stomach discomfort, a lot of gas, and mild diarrhea. I also noticed myself feeling hot and a bit restless. When I took the pills with food, it definitely helped the stomach discomfort but the gas and diarrhea still occurred.
I waited a while to report this since I wanted to make sure it wasn’t just a fluke. But the effects have persisted for about two months now. Again, I want to add a disclaimer that my experience will likely be different from others and may be due to reasons completely unrelated to sulforaphane. But at the same time, I wanted to share my experience.
Since the 10 capsule dose, I have also tried 12 capsules and 15 capsules, but I haven’t noticed any more benefit yet. For many drugs they have a therapeutic range, when you get outside the range by going too high you don’t get any additional benefit, and sometimes you may get the opposite intended effect. For this reason I am going to try going back to a 10 capsule dose once more.
If the effects persist, and if other people experience the same thing, I may consider posting it over in recoveries or another part of the forum. For now though just wanted to give an interim update on my experience.

 

[Helen]

@joekool there is a case of PFS where people feel better upregulating androgen receptor.

but in those cases the problem is with GABA not androgen receptor.

GABA does not lets progesterone convert further into its metabolites

and progesterone is blocking AR. this is why in those people they would feel better if they upregulate AR receptors( their receptors are upregulated already as it is ) . or they kill progesterone with ella ( etc)

But that should not be done. Since the minute you take care of your GABA problem, you would be totally bald as it happened to Minimi)) since androgen receptor is already upregulated to fight high progesterone.


These people have high DHEA. since 3 beta hsd is not working. since 3 beta hsd wil make more progesterone.


This is why these people benefit from raising acetylcholine. which lowers their gaba and calcium. and they would feel cured on it.


and that is why some of them feel cured on DHEA. since DHEA blocks GABA and progesterone pours into allopregnenolone.

The level of progesterone falls and AR receptor= free.