Zinc-Copper disbalance, Low Ferritin, Erectyle dysfunction

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bluestreak

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Hi
I followed you guys here from RayPeat Forum.
I took multivitamin tablets (normal, over the counter ones) but those which are meant for skin,hair and nails.
I instead of of tablet a day, used two tablets each day after meals (morning and night with each tablet having 10 and 15 mg Zinc, 10 and 15 mg iron and 0.5 mg copper each) along with other vitamins and minerals.
I had a very fast hair fall and extermely high libido. Both got quickly reduced with this regimen. The hair fall reduced from the very next day but the libido shot up and in a week, it came down to zero with no brain-genitle connection.
I stopped the pills after a total of 18 days of use (Feb 2017)

Libido came back rushing in after 10 days and then dropped. after 10 or so more days again it shot up and then subsided. And then depression kicked in along with headaches and migranes.

Since then, even if I use one pill of multivitamin, I get a headache.
I fasted (intermittent fasting) for 3-4 weeks. In this I felt like I have fully recovered, erections were better, libido started rising, but it was towards the last few days of fasting. So I stopped fasting. But as soon as I stopped fasting, every day, the situation got worse and worse and eventually within 1 week to where it was.

In 4 months, my Ferritin level went down from 70 down to 15. My GP suggested use of iron pills, which gain caused headache but I managed them for a week. After that my ferritin went up to 27 and erection got fine but no libido and numbness in the penis tip

I left it. Then I read Gbolduev post suggesting someone else with similar symptons who used Zinc to use Magnesium/Maganese/Zinc/Copper supplement. I used one pill each of Magnesium 300 mg/Copper 2mg/Manganses 2mg. And within hours, a strange sensation started in my head which stayed around for a few days and then headache on the sides started and it continued for around 10 days.
After it settled, penis tip sensation was better, libido was slightly better but errections were slightly weaker.

After a few days, I ate a handfull of Pine Nuts, and similar sypmtoms repeated.

Does anyone know what is this?
I would to get some advice from [mention]gbolduev[/mention] if he is around. I heard he had some experience with disbalance of Zinc/Copper ratios. Is this such a situation? I have blood results and hair mineral analysis that I can share.
 
Nina

Nina

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It could be too much copper since those nuts are high in it too.
 
B

bluestreak

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Hi Nina
Thanks for response.
Copper is in fact low both in serum and hair mineral results.
Perhaps it all started with copper being suppressed through Zinc and Iron. But Low copper in turn reduces iron absorption.
But I am looking for some expert comment on this too.
 
Area-1255

Area-1255

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How
bluestreak said:
Hi Nina
Thanks for response.
Copper is in fact low both in serum and hair mineral results.
Perhaps it all started with copper being suppressed through Zinc and Iron. But Low copper in turn reduces iron absorption.
But I am looking for some expert comment on this too.
Click to expand...
How much Folic acid are you getting per day? Too much folate can block Copper.
 
W

wuf

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Just to understand: before using the multivitamin tablets, you had high libido and normal erections?
 
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wuf

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shit, if even using a normal multivitamin can give you ED, I feel more and more hopeless.... trying to fix things seems impossible if even mineral are involved. too many variables in the game. i mean billion of variabiles...how can even make any rational thought trying to fix??
 
W

wuf

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Area-1255 said:
Well Copper IS needed for erectile function however is lesser important than Zinc in comparison.
Click to expand...

a lot of things are needed for erectile function, from brain mechanism to the penis tissue. I am seriously thinking that we are just talking and talking since it is so complex and billion of factors are involved.. that is so insane that even a simple mutivitamin can screw you up and let you become an impotent man, this is crazy.
 
Area-1255

Area-1255

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wuf said:
a lot of things are needed for erectile function, from brain mechanism to the penis tissue. I am seriously thinking that we are just talking and talking since it is so complex and billion of factors are involved.. that is so insane that even a simple mutivitamin can screw you up and let you become an impotent man, this is crazy.
Click to expand...
Well, the biggest factor is Testosterone:E2 ratio. Too little DHT or too high E2, and in some cases, too low E2 can fuck up your function. Then other factors like thyroid, minerals, nitric oxide level and dopamine:adrenaline ratio as well come into play. However, lets consider something for a minute. Teenage males who do indeed have super high levels of Testosterone often have high gonadotropins, but that doesn't actually equate to higher levels of androgens themselves, and they do not express masculine characteristics (typically) BEFORE sexual function is at its prime. Meaning, there's a lot of NERDY young fellows that do not seem to have high Androgenic traits yet have insane libidos.

In that case, Testosterone is only playing a minor role, while other factors associated with Youth are playing larger roles.

For example; general hypothalamic function, higher Dopamine/HGH, lower Insulin and higher Glucagon, and high levels of Prostaglandins.
Its also suggested by some authors that youth is associated with lower levels of MAO-B, and thus it is possible that the actual breakdown of monoamines and their metabolites is a big difference between Youth and Adults.
 
W

wuf

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Area-1255 said:
Well, the biggest factor is Testosterone:E2 ratio. Too little DHT or too high E2, and in some cases, too low E2 can **** up your function. Then other factors like thyroid, minerals, nitric oxide level and dopamine:adrenaline ratio as well come into play. However, lets consider something for a minute. Teenage males who do indeed have super high levels of Testosterone often have high gonadotropins, but that doesn't actually equate to higher levels of androgens themselves, and they do not express masculine characteristics (typically) BEFORE sexual function is at its prime. Meaning, there's a lot of NERDY young fellows that do not seem to have high Androgenic traits yet have insane libidos.

In that case, Testosterone is only playing a minor role, while other factors associated with Youth are playing larger roles.

For example; general hypothalamic function, higher Dopamine/HGH, lower Insulin and higher Glucagon, and high levels of Prostaglandins.
Its also suggested by some authors that youth is associated with lower levels of MAO-B, and thus it is possible that the actual breakdown of monoamines and their metabolites is a big difference between Youth and Adults.
Click to expand...

Everything you say makes sense.
Anyway, I am astonished how even a simple multivit can mess you up and maybe permanently. Atonished!
 
Canari

Canari

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wuf said:
I am seriously thinking that we are just talking and talking since it is so complex and billion of factors are involved.. that is so insane that even a simple mutivitamin can screw you up and let you become an impotent man, this is crazy.
Click to expand...
That is why the nervous system is less complex, and when you fix it, you help the rest. I do not mean to focus only on this, but it is a big part. Progest-e is a natural progesteron unlike fin, and I am almost sure it screw me up, along with using supps and high sugar diet. Other supp can help back for sure, but the nervous system is what makes everything work alone. If only a begnin supp can have big effect only on SOME persons, then it means we were not as resilient as we should have been!

Thus the problem of taling with big scientific names is that we feel we have hope, and we can also feel overwhelmed by the complexity and think we will never go around the big human body machinery!

Astonished has the word stone in it, it means we feel heavy and stuck when facing something too big! I guess that is your impression! All very complex and what can we do if we cannot even take a simple multi.vit?

.Edit: and I really tried to be sure it was not a mistake before taking prog! They assure you there is no max dose, and that it is protective, thus the increase 1000fold during pregnany, so it cannot be bad even in high dosis.... how wrong!
 
Area-1255

Area-1255

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wuf said:
Everything you say makes sense.
Anyway, I am astonished how even a simple multivit can mess you up and maybe permanently. Atonished!
Click to expand...
I very much doubt its permanent. You just need to get a more accurate reading (or OP does) on what the hair levels of minerals are. Its possible DHT was lowered by the Zinc:Copper imbalance.
 
S

Shelly

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Don't know if this is the case with you but, the body will hide iron in tissues if there is infection or chronic disease. Otherwise know as anemia of chronic disease in this case supplementing with iron is not beneficial as the iron is not bioavailable particularly if copper is low. In order for proper iron metabolism to occur you need whole food vitamin C, ascorbic acid on it's own will chelate copper but whole food vitamin C which has rutin, bioflavionoids j factor and P factor in it help to produce ceruloplasmin which is important for ferritin production. As discussed here Vitamin C vs. Ascorbic Acid: A Big Difference - Katie Packwood NTP yo might want to look up ceruloplasmin and iron metabolism on wikipedia for further information.
 
B

bluestreak

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8
Hi All
Thanks for the response.
I have observed that when my ferritin was 15 (normal range 20 - 300), I get problems with erections.
By taking iron pills (suggested by GP) for one week (210 mg every other day) improved temporarily. But then I used 1 fish oil capsule + 1 evening prime rose pil capsule every night for 2-3 weeks. Erections got perfect. Perfect brain to genital connection but no libido. Ferritin after these 4 weeks was at 27.

But these migraines now set on from eating various foods and once on, they stay around for at least a week (both sides of the head). They are debilitating.
Erections are weaker since now the ferriting is at 20 exactly. But whenever I eat red meat, the next day they are better.
Libido is slightly rising. Not as good as orignally it was, but still better.
Migraines are killing.
This is a perfect case of mineral imbalance.
Can anyone suggest what to do?
Manganese, even 1 tablet of 2 mg was killer.
 
Helen

Helen

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bluestreak said:
Hi All
Thanks for the response.
I have observed that when my ferritin was 15 (normal range 20 - 300), I get problems with erections.
By taking iron pills (suggested by GP) for one week (210 mg every other day) improved temporarily. But then I used 1 fish oil capsule + 1 evening prime rose pil capsule every night for 2-3 weeks. Erections got perfect. Perfect brain to genital connection but no libido. Ferritin after these 4 weeks was at 27.

But these migraines now set on from eating various foods and once on, they stay around for at least a week (both sides of the head). They are debilitating.
Erections are weaker since now the ferriting is at 20 exactly. But whenever I eat red meat, the next day they are better.
Libido is slightly rising. Not as good as orignally it was, but still better.
Migraines are killing.
This is a perfect case of mineral imbalance.
Can anyone suggest what to do?
Manganese, even 1 tablet of 2 mg was killer.
Click to expand...


did you try zinc? may be some lysine and vitamin C
 
B

bluestreak

Member
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Hi Gbolduev
No, I did not try Zinc because I believed excess of Zinc as compared to Copper was the main cause of this.
Hair mineral analysis (some ratios)
1515284260293.png
I have tried magnesium milk in water, iron pill, copper pill, selenium pill, bunch of pine nuts, each one of these cause migraines individually.
 
B

bluestreak

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wuf said:
Just to understand: before using the multivitamin tablets, you had high libido and normal erections?
Click to expand...
extremely high libido before taking these multivits that if I saw an average or below average girl, I would get an erection immediately.
Even when I started these multivits, libido shot up evern further. And then went crashing down one week on these multivits. In 2 weeks I crashed and also stopped these pills.
 
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