ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[Steve]

@Scenes I've been using potassium, copper, magnesium and NAC (cysteine) together and i feel much better than before. Although my heart-rate is a little increased and my body temperature feels slightly warmer than before, what do you think about moving on to the GHK-cu regimine you're doing? Is there much added benefit?

You aren't meant to use NAC. It is meant to be cysteine hcl. Gboldeuv has always said to stay away from NAC.

 

[Canari]

You aren't meant to use NAC. It is meant to be cysteine hcl. Gboldeuv has always said to stay away from NAC.

He joined january 1, so he has not read all, that is why I ask for the renaming of the "vitamins & mineral" forum into a "supplementation" forum, so that specific points can stand on their own through their title.

The search does not work with the word NAC.... it says it is too short for searching!
He said nothing against NAC here
GHK-Cu: Hairloss, PFS, COPD, Fibromalgia Discussion

but here yes:
ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

 

[wuf]

I used HCL betaine stand alone just for 5 days and I quit it 2 days ago.
I do not go to the toilet anymore at all since I started it... I am eating as an animal and no one time going to toilet.. is that normal?
Well I guess it is not. Anyone experienced the same?

 

[Scenes]

@Scenes I've been using potassium, copper, magnesium and NAC (cysteine) together and i feel much better than before. Although my heart-rate is a little increased and my body temperature feels slightly warmer than before, what do you think about moving on to the GHK-cu regimine you're doing? Is there much added benefit?

Personally ghk-cu was essentially the same as the copper stack you’re on...getting copper working in the body. I changed to it for hair improvements, I didn’t get them and I was sick of taking histidine coz it gave me a stuffy nose all the time. It did make my skin slightly nicer and stopping me flushing when drinking alcohol or exercising.

I’m off copper now. I take vit c and eat less iron (bread and meat), or make sure to have coffee with those foods. I think iron is a big factor for me - my hair is looking thicker than in years honestly and even making skin clearer and eyes whiter. Going well but early days.

 

[Jaxx]

Personally ghk-cu was essentially the same as the copper stack you’re on...getting copper working in the body. I changed to it for hair improvements, I didn’t get them and I was sick of taking histidine coz it gave me a stuffy nose all the time. It did make my skin slightly nicer and stopping me flushing when drinking alcohol or exercising.

I’m off copper now. I take vit c and eat less iron (bread and meat), or make sure to have coffee with those foods. I think iron is a big factor for me - my hair is looking thicker than in years honestly and even making skin clearer and eyes whiter. Going well but early days.

Could you please make a seperate log on this, your progress seems awesome but it is difficult to have an overview what happened with what stuff...

 

[Clementine]

I used HCL betaine stand alone just for 5 days and I quit it 2 days ago.
I do not go to the toilet anymore at all since I started it... I am eating as an animal and no one time going to toilet.. is that normal?
Well I guess it is not. Anyone experienced the same?

Yes, it seemed to slow down my digestion/bowel movements. I mention it in my thread here: A little help with labs?
I backed off on the HCL and then @gbolduev confirmed that I shouldn't be taking too much since I have 4 lows on hair test. I think I read that HCL can mess with potassium? I'm not smart enough to know why that would affect digestion or if it's some other side effect of HCL...

 

[Canari]

There is already a topic about GHK-Cu, and i cannot find any for sale, as it seems good for fibrosis issues....
GHK-Cu: Hairloss, PFS, COPD, Fibromalgia Discussion

And also betaine HCl has already a thread! As you get better from it, of course it removes the speedy BM, and reveals the underlying constipation, eventually.
Which acids are good for stomach? How to use acids like HCl?

 

[Orion]

I backed off on the HCL and then @gbolduev confirmed that I shouldn't be taking too much since I have 4 lows on hair test. I think I read that HCL can mess with potassium? I'm not smart enough to know why that would affect digestion or if it's some other side effect of HCL...

Electrolytes KCl and MgCl are important to take with HCl, believe its to buffer the response. Maybe @mattyb could explain it a bit better.

 

[TubZy]

I used HCL betaine stand alone just for 5 days and I quit it 2 days ago.
I do not go to the toilet anymore at all since I started it... I am eating as an animal and no one time going to toilet.. is that normal?
Well I guess it is not. Anyone experienced the same?

You need electrolytes with it especially potassium. If you try it again follow the "improved health" thread in my signature everything is described what to do there.

 

[wuf]

I am also curious to understand this:
@gbolduev suggests 40 days water fasting or Breuss fasting wich is basically juice/veggie fasting and water.
I have been reading that juice/veggies fasting is an alkaline diet, which set the body in an alkaline state..
So how could it help if as claimed, we are already in an alkalosis state?

 

[TubZy]

@TubZy @gbolduev @mattyb or anyone that can help me here.

When we say we want to tank potassium in the cell, what is the exact reason for doing so? Do we want to lower it so when it comes back it comes back stronger?

I'm a huge Betaine HCL guy right now along with making sure I go high on potassium (tomato juice, beet juice etc etc). Just would like to see a link or clarification as to why I am doing this.

Hey, here is a good example (below). Betaine HCL tanks potassium in the cell (essentially slowing metabolism). That is why you need to take electrolytes with it. Really anything that tanks potassium in the cell slows metabolism...RU/ella/copper etc.......for example on my 5th day of RU my metabolism and digestion was like completely shut down

Zinc/magnesium etc. all put potassium back in the cell (increase progesterone) hence why they speed up thyroid

My understanding is that with PFS, potassium becomes "stuck" in the cell and nothing is working properly. That is why just taking zinc or magnesium alone can make you feel worse because the body already has enough potassium in the cell already, that is why it is wasting zinc in urine, it doesn't need it. So tanking potassium intentionally allows your body to help re-sensitize again because your forcing it out of the cell. When the snap back occurs from RU/ella it is your body putting potassium back in the cell again except it is more sensitive this time and is working better so you feel better and metabolism improves.

This stuff isn't that new to me I just searched for a long time in this thread for keywords..it helped me understand over time Gbolduev's Summary of Quotes & Ideas (all topics)

corticosteroids cause hypokalemia and alkalosis, potassium is what makes your thyroid hormone work in the cell. Thus if you run low on potassium you feel very hypothyroid.
try to take electrolytes * magnesium potassium chlorides) with protein and HCL. it should get you back on line.

 

[Helen]

Question , is anyone taking NADH here? lets assume finasteride takes down NADPH. NADPH is made by pentose pathway as the majority source, then it is made with malic enzymes , isocitrate enzyme and alpha glutarate enzyme/ everywhere where NADH is made NADPH is also made in the Krebs cycle.

Malic enzyme run on manganese and mg, isocitrate enzyme run on mg and mn. So basically if you feed NADH , you should get the energy back and increased nitric oxide.

since NADH will recylce Bh4 and increase your nitric oxide.

I would assume if G6PD is down, then this will put a lot of pressure on the Krebs cycle. And this is the reason why thyroid is closed down.

I guess this is why malic acid gives quite a boost in CFS.


So basically in PFS, if pentose pathway is closed since potassium is down which keeps thiamine down.

the whole pressure on producing NAPDH goes into Krebs cycle. This lowers NADH singificantly.

NADH recycles Bh4 which protects nitric oxide, without bh4 you produce superoxide and not nitric oxide.

It looks like this is the situation here.

So basically you need to do what I told you to do already with electrolytes etc, potassium , may be try to add some thiamine. And add some NADH. to help the Krebs and bh4

This will give you energy and stop the ROS formation.

 

[bruschi11]

Seems like a pyramid scheme, what's in the eidon?

Electrolytes as @gbolduev desires us to take. And as @TubZy explains below. The Eidon feeds electrolytes at a commonly desired ratio I believe.

Hey, here is a good example (below). Betaine HCL tanks potassium in the cell (essentially slowing metabolism). That is why you need to take electrolytes with it. Really anything that tanks potassium in the cell slows metabolism...RU/ella/copper etc.......for example on my 5th day of RU my metabolism and digestion was like completely shut down

Zinc/magnesium etc. all put potassium back in the cell (increase progesterone) hence why they speed up thyroid

My understanding is that with PFS, potassium becomes "stuck" in the cell and nothing is working properly. That is why just taking zinc or magnesium alone can make you feel worse because the body already has enough potassium in the cell already, that is why it is wasting zinc in urine, it doesn't need it. So tanking potassium intentionally allows your body to help re-sensitize again because your forcing it out of the cell. When the snap back occurs from RU/ella it is your body putting potassium back in the cell again except it is more sensitive this time and is working better so you feel better and metabolism improves.

This stuff isn't that new to me I just searched for a long time in this thread for keywords..it helped me understand over time Gbolduev's Summary of Quotes & Ideas (all topics)

Really good post @TubZy . Definitely getting a better understanding of this with your points here.

 

[bruschi11]

Question , is anyone taking NADH here? lets assume finasteride takes down NADPH. NADPH is made by pentose pathway as the majority source, then it is made with malic enzymes , isocitrate enzyme and alpha glutarate enzyme/ everywhere where NADH is made NADPH is also made in the Krebs cycle.

Malic enzyme run on manganese and mg, isocitrate enzyme run on mg and mn. So basically if you feed NADH , you should get the energy back and increased nitric oxide.

since NADH will recylce Bh4 and increase your nitric oxide.

I would assume if G6PD is down, then this will put a lot of pressure on the Krebs cycle. And this is the reason why thyroid is closed down.

I guess this is why malic acid gives quite a boost in CFS.


So basically in PFS, if pentose pathway is closed since potassium is down which keeps thiamine down.

the whole pressure on producing NAPDH goes into Krebs cycle. This lowers NADH singificantly.

NADH recycles Bh4 which protects nitric oxide, without bh4 you produce superoxide and not nitric oxide.

It looks like this is the situation here.

So basically you need to do what I told you to do already with electrolytes etc, potassium , may be try to add some thiamine. And add some NADH. to help the Krebs and bh4

This will give you energy and stop the ROS formation.

I was on a forum pre-PFS where the head of the forum had pretty bad CFS. He lovedddd NADH for his CFS issue.
He was extremely intelligent and I believe was a medical writer. Forum has since been dissolved.

That said, I have CFS and I understand how badly the CFS effects PFS sexual symptoms. @gbolduev you're one who believes this to the degree I do- CFS is caused by ammonia and toxins (pathogen die off) essentially. The better your body is at taking care of ammonia and toxins, the better your CFS gets.

I know all the feelings of high toxicity, ammonia to when I am feeling clean. The toxicity leaves me fatigued, brainfogged, and quite weirdly but not really it leads to my testacles shrinking up and losing sexuality. The "cleaner" I feel the better my PFS sexual symptoms are. An example of this is post liver flush I normally have some solid libido for a few days.

I think a lot of guys need to realize that CFS isn't just fatigue. If you're sluggish at all, brainfogged etc, you have CFS. The better
you get at managing that CFS, the better your PFS will get.

I don't know exactly where I'm going here, but NADH does sound like a great idea for us as part of what we are trying to accomplish for sure in my mind. I think the whole plan on beating PFS is making your body the best it can at handling the bad (ammonia, toxins) and putting the body in its purest form. This will allow imbalances (like PFS) to clear.

While this may not solve everything, I think its something to keep in mind for anyone going after PFS.

 

[Admiral]

Hey, here is a good example (below). Betaine HCL tanks potassium in the cell (essentially slowing metabolism). That is why you need to take electrolytes with it. Really anything that tanks potassium in the cell slows metabolism...RU/ella/copper etc.......for example on my 5th day of RU my metabolism and digestion was like completely shut down

Zinc/magnesium etc. all put potassium back in the cell (increase progesterone) hence why they speed up thyroid

My understanding is that with PFS, potassium becomes "stuck" in the cell and nothing is working properly. That is why just taking zinc or magnesium alone can make you feel worse because the body already has enough potassium in the cell already, that is why it is wasting zinc in urine, it doesn't need it. So tanking potassium intentionally allows your body to help re-sensitize again because your forcing it out of the cell. When the snap back occurs from RU/ella it is your body putting potassium back in the cell again except it is more sensitive this time and is working better so you feel better and metabolism improves.

This stuff isn't that new to me I just searched for a long time in this thread for keywords..it helped me understand over time Gbolduev's Summary of Quotes & Ideas (all topics)

Not getting it. If tanking potassium should re sentisize it, why add potassium in all these protocols?

Sorry for sounding like a dumbass.

 

[Canari]

The problem with hair test is that it does not tell you what is IN the cell.... That is why toxicities can show after a moment and not at the first test. So you can be low at anything without knowing if you are just low, or if you have a reserve in the cells!

I just do not know if this is true for all minerals... The lab told me this about my low copper for example, and told me they could not know if I had a lot in my cells, just htat I had not enough in my tissues. Thus I concluded that what is tested in the outside medium of the cell!

Or else explain to me how they do not see what is INSIDE cell, and at the same time tell us that this analysis tell us what is INSIDE tissues.... Because that's what it is: the easiest biopsy we can get!

 

[Canari]

I take electrolytes that work well as it stopped my night cramping (I am low in K hair test)
It is called c-salts and for 100g I get 76,6 as vit c, 12 as K, 7 as Ca, 4 as Mg and very little zinc.

 

[Slayo]

Question , is anyone taking NADH here? lets assume finasteride takes down NADPH. NADPH is made by pentose pathway as the majority source, then it is made with malic enzymes , isocitrate enzyme and alpha glutarate enzyme/ everywhere where NADH is made NADPH is also made in the Krebs cycle.

Malic enzyme run on manganese and mg, isocitrate enzyme run on mg and mn. So basically if you feed NADH , you should get the energy back and increased nitric oxide.

since NADH will recylce Bh4 and increase your nitric oxide.

I would assume if G6PD is down, then this will put a lot of pressure on the Krebs cycle. And this is the reason why thyroid is closed down.

I guess this is why malic acid gives quite a boost in CFS.


So basically in PFS, if pentose pathway is closed since potassium is down which keeps thiamine down.

the whole pressure on producing NAPDH goes into Krebs cycle. This lowers NADH singificantly.

NADH recycles Bh4 which protects nitric oxide, without bh4 you produce superoxide and not nitric oxide.

It looks like this is the situation here.

So basically you need to do what I told you to do already with electrolytes etc, potassium , may be try to add some thiamine. And add some NADH. to help the Krebs and bh4

This will give you energy and stop the ROS formation.

I think you are right, my OAT showed low thiamine that is the major stimulator of the PPP, also low b2, so no FADH too, i have seen this is common in pfs, we have lack of redox molecules, that is why finding bad gluthathione recycle in pfs is so common

 

[Orion]

Question , is anyone taking NADH here? lets assume finasteride takes down NADPH. NADPH is made by pentose pathway as the majority source, then it is made with malic enzymes , isocitrate enzyme and alpha glutarate enzyme/ everywhere where NADH is made NADPH is also made in the Krebs cycle.

Malic enzyme run on manganese and mg, isocitrate enzyme run on mg and mn. So basically if you feed NADH , you should get the energy back and increased nitric oxide.

since NADH will recylce Bh4 and increase your nitric oxide.

I would assume if G6PD is down, then this will put a lot of pressure on the Krebs cycle. And this is the reason why thyroid is closed down.

I guess this is why malic acid gives quite a boost in CFS.


So basically in PFS, if pentose pathway is closed since potassium is down which keeps thiamine down.

the whole pressure on producing NAPDH goes into Krebs cycle. This lowers NADH singificantly.

NADH recycles Bh4 which protects nitric oxide, without bh4 you produce superoxide and not nitric oxide.

It looks like this is the situation here.

So basically you need to do what I told you to do already with electrolytes etc, potassium , may be try to add some thiamine. And add some NADH. to help the Krebs and bh4

This will give you energy and stop the ROS formation.

Increasing BH4

"This study found that a regimen of L-arginine, vitamin C, and vitamin E increased BH4 levels by 32%.

Phenylalanine is known to increase BH4 levels by stimulating BH4 production. Ref: 1

NADH is required both to make BH4 and to recycle it. Ref: 1

Folate may help increase BH4, according to Martin Pall. Ref: 1

BH4 is very sensitive to oxidation by reactive oxygen species and peroxynitrite. So antioxidants like vitamin C, vitamin E, and peroxynitrite scavengers like alpha lipoic acid may help prevent BH4 breakdown."

 

[Orion]

I was on a forum pre-PFS where the head of the forum had pretty bad CFS. He lovedddd NADH for his CFS issue.
He was extremely intelligent and I believe was a medical writer. Forum has since been dissolved.

That said, I have CFS and I understand how badly the CFS effects PFS sexual symptoms. @gbolduev you're one who believes this to the degree I do- CFS is caused by ammonia and toxins (pathogen die off) essentially. The better your body is at taking care of ammonia and toxins, the better your CFS gets.

I know all the feelings of high toxicity, ammonia to when I am feeling clean. The toxicity leaves me fatigued, brainfogged, and quite weirdly but not really it leads to my testacles shrinking up and losing sexuality. The "cleaner" I feel the better my PFS sexual symptoms are. An example of this is post liver flush I normally have some solid libido for a few days.

I think a lot of guys need to realize that CFS isn't just fatigue. If you're sluggish at all, brainfogged etc, you have CFS. The better
you get at managing that CFS, the better your PFS will get.

I don't know exactly where I'm going here, but NADH does sound like a great idea for us as part of what we are trying to accomplish for sure in my mind. I think the whole plan on beating PFS is making your body the best it can at handling the bad (ammonia, toxins) and putting the body in its purest form. This will allow imbalances (like PFS) to clear.

While this may not solve everything, I think its something to keep in mind for anyone going after PFS.

Ammonia and BH4 - is this a myth or something?