ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[Helen]

This is the connection why in toxicities , cortisol resistance, and so forth, Reverse T3 hormone is raised.

http://www.jbc.org/content/267/25/18055.full.pdf

I think RT3 is raised not to create oxidative damage. Since Sods are needed to protect against that . RT3 lives for only 3 hours. So there is no pooling of it. Until underlining issue resolves, and unless you stay on t3, your rt3 levels will constanly go back up.

@mattyb So cysteine histidine selenium

 

[brongfogboy]

@gbolduev I suspect that lowering RT3 with T3 supplementation for some time to allow nutrients to affectively enter the cell may be necessary for this protocol although you may be able to do it without T3 supplementation if you take the amino acids etc immediately after a good workout to increase uptake. Your thoughts?

 

[JonnyCraig]

In light of this study (combating hypothyroid with Inositol+selenium) and it doesn't even appear to be huge doses of Inositol...

Treatment with Myo-Inositol and Selenium Ensures Euthyroidism in Patients with Autoimmune Thyroiditis

Myo-inositol plus selenium supplementation restores euthyroid state in Hashimoto's patients with subclinical hypothyroidism. - PubMed - NCBI

PATIENTS AND METHODS:
A total of 168 patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis (HT) having Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) levels between 3 and 6 µIU/ml were randomized into 2 groups: one receiving MI-Se and the other one Se alone.

RESULTS:
TSH, anti-thyroid peroxidase (TPOAb) and anti-thyroglobulin (TgAb) levels were significantly decreased in patients treated with combined MI-Se after six months of treatment. Also, a significant free serum T4 increase was observed in MI-Se group, along with an amelioration of patients' quality of life.

CONCLUSIONS:
The administration of MI-Se is significantly effective in decreasing TSH, TPOAb and TgAb levels, as well as in enhancing thyroid hormones and personal wellbeing. Such treatment restored euthyroidism in patients diagnosed with autoimmune thyroiditis.

Here's an earlier less in depth study on the same: Combined treatment with Myo-inositol and selenium ensures euthyroidism in subclinical hypothyroidism patients with autoimmune thyroiditis. - PubMed - NCBI

Could we think of adding Inositol+Selenium to this protocol, at least for people with possible hypothyroid issues, i.e cold intolerance, elevated TSH, etc? (I see @gbolduev you mentioned selenium just above to mattyb (cysteine+histidine+selenium).

While we're on that topic, is L-Se-methylselenocysteine (SeMSC) a good form of selenium?


Also + @jacknap you should see this study if you haven't already.

 

[freeflow]

Guys

Guys i have a very interesting experience that i must share:
I got my root canalled tooth extracted this week and the hole was large in my jaw so i started taking antibiotics for it. Yesterday i took my first full dose 2x1000 mg augmentin duo( it has amoxicillin and clavulanic ACID) I had sooo much better mood than baseline yesterday. By the evening i developed gyno and muscles feeling weaker though. At night i had crazy long dreams, i dreamt the way i dreamt pre pfs, full of fighting, climbing, physical activities. Overall i rate my sleep was very good.
Today morning my balls are hanging lower, d ick is also longer. Noticed increased tinnitus yesterday and today too.

So whats going on? The clavulanic acid seems to be a very strong acid to me, the 2nd dose after dinner was burning my stomach and oesophagus for 1 hour and i had to eat again to make it go away.
It all correlates with the alkalosis theory or better said fact. Or does anyone know a better explanation?
Merry xmas btw, i think i will keep taking this antibiotics.



@gbolduev

Ah sorry guys for the long writing. Todays diarrhoea crash reminded me that i was taking tribulus last thursday and i was off of it on my exceptionally good day on saturday when i was taking the antibiotics.
Thats why taking many things can confuse easily, dont know to which supplement attribute the results lol.

Was also using brewers yeast and had an orgasm, it was pleasurable, totally not typical to pfs

 

[Helen]

Guys, you should understand that zinc finger theory has 2 cases, with upregulated or downrgulated zinc finger, So histidine could be high or low. I don't know.

That is why I suggested some people tested it.

Histidine is a limiting amino in controling myo inositol.

The effect of histidine modification on the activity of myo-inositol monophosphatase from bovine brain


That is why some people take myo inositol with NAC.

 

[Helen]

@gbolduev I suspect that lowering RT3 with T3 supplementation for some time to allow nutrients to affectively enter the cell may be necessary for this protocol although you may be able to do it without T3 supplementation if you take the amino acids etc immediately after a good workout to increase uptake. Your thoughts?

We have a thread where we are discussing t3 route. along with AI. t3 alone wont work. it will overload you with estrogen. and prolactin will stop the axis.

Plus it is not t3 that allows nutrients into the cell. it is insulin. We have 2 kinds of people here, with really low insulin and with high. So it is different.

Many people tried to restore metabolism flushing rt3. I did not see any succeed, since when you quit t3, t4 goes back up and rt3 goes back up in days.
So it is all about fixing the underlining issue. Or otherwise you will have to stay on t3 forever. And then you will run into oxidative stress issues, like vein problems, etc

joe is trying this route out already. We can see his results when he comes off T3.

 

[Helen]

By the way , about hairloss thing. Look at the ingredients of TRICOMIN. Histidine copper, lysine. alanine. This is what I mentioned in the patented treatments. And if you read some people who are applying this stuff, they claim to get crazy hard erections on this stuff.

Pickart discovered the tripeptide glycyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine (GHK) naturally occurring in the body and determined that it plays a role in tissue renewal. He also found that GHK is less abundant in people who are older / in poorer health. He experimented with introducing GHK-copper into the body, and saw it had the same effect as naturally occurring GHK. He called GHK-Cu "Copper Tripeptide-1". He also discovered an analogue of GHK which had a stronger effect, at least for hair growth: L-alanyl-L-histidyl-L-lysine (AHK).

 

[Helen]

In light of this study (combating hypothyroid with Inositol+selenium) and it doesn't even appear to be huge doses of Inositol...

Treatment with Myo-Inositol and Selenium Ensures Euthyroidism in Patients with Autoimmune Thyroiditis

Myo-inositol plus selenium supplementation restores euthyroid state in Hashimoto's patients with subclinical hypothyroidism. - PubMed - NCBI

PATIENTS AND METHODS:
A total of 168 patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis (HT) having Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) levels between 3 and 6 µIU/ml were randomized into 2 groups: one receiving MI-Se and the other one Se alone.

RESULTS:
TSH, anti-thyroid peroxidase (TPOAb) and anti-thyroglobulin (TgAb) levels were significantly decreased in patients treated with combined MI-Se after six months of treatment. Also, a significant free serum T4 increase was observed in MI-Se group, along with an amelioration of patients' quality of life.

CONCLUSIONS:
The administration of MI-Se is significantly effective in decreasing TSH, TPOAb and TgAb levels, as well as in enhancing thyroid hormones and personal wellbeing. Such treatment restored euthyroidism in patients diagnosed with autoimmune thyroiditis.

Here's an earlier less in depth study on the same: Combined treatment with Myo-inositol and selenium ensures euthyroidism in subclinical hypothyroidism patients with autoimmune thyroiditis. - PubMed - NCBI

Could we think of adding Inositol+Selenium to this protocol, at least for people with possible hypothyroid issues, i.e cold intolerance, elevated TSH, etc? (I see @gbolduev you mentioned selenium just above to mattyb (cysteine+histidine+selenium).

While we're on that topic, is L-Se-methylselenocysteine (SeMSC) a good form of selenium?


Also + @jacknap you should see this study if you haven't already.

This is not a protocol yet, I am yet to figure out, if cysteine plus histidine lower cortisol or increase it. This why we are still trying.

Selenium yes, I mentioned it on the first page also

 

[Canari]

@gbolduev what do you think about the hair test -with hair bulb- that gives amino acids? I posted this some days ago but it seemed to have been unnoticed. Do you think it is ok, or has aminos have to be tested in blood only?

 

[Sevens]

@gbolduev i dont get the good feeling back like I’ve got about 6 days in the protocol since I’ve crashed.
Very low libido no spontaneous erections.. could it be low potassium from the overmethylation ?

 

[Helen]

@gbolduev i dont get the good feeling back like I’ve got about 6 days in the protocol since I’ve crashed.
Very low libido no spontaneous erections.. could it be low potassium from the overmethylation ?

Why dont you stop everything and go one by one and see which one is making you feel better or worse.

As I said zinc finger could be upregulated or downregulated, any part of it could be up or down.

and as I said for fast oxidizers it could be copper methionine potassium magnesium selenium

for slow , it could histidine or inositol, plus zinc manganese.

If you felt great I dont know why you changed things

Weren't you taking electrolytes with this?

In one case histidine is high and in another low. May be you are not doing good on histidine and you need to lower it?

If you crashed on methylation , then you can take niacin and kill methylation.

This is all guessing stuff,. I can't get your balance. this is a theory and people need to get tested for which imbalance they have.


If you take methylfolate alone what do you feel. Stop takin g this bunch, lets figure out what is doing this to you


Also dont forget , i just read you message , you were still on clomid at the time you were taking all this stuff?

May be you dont need any of this stuff, may be clomid just wore off

In any case, contact me, I Pmed you . we will try to figure it out .

 

[tallglass13]

@gbolduev, what would be a good insulin level. I have tested mine twice , once it was 7 units, the other it was 11 units. both in morning after a coffee when tested.

 

[Helen]

What was the lab range?

 

[Jaxx]

You believe the high prog. level will signal to which group people belong (eventually)?

 

[Helen]

You believe the high prog. level will signal to which group people belong (eventually)?

we see people with high and low insulin, with high progesterone. so progesterone itself will not be enough to say what you are.

We are trying this out. Stop asking for protocols. it is not a protocol yet. I need to see how people get balanced on this. And which routes to get them balanced.

 

[tallglass13]

5-25 iu insulin

 

[tallglass13]

but also , we always hear to keep insulin as low as possible. like the low carb guy, Butter Bob Briggs. he did a Kraft blood insulin test. His baseline was 3 units. when he took glucose it went up to like 13 units, and his blood sugar when to like 300. It was like he was basically either glucose or insulin resistance from being low carb for so long.

 

[Helen]

but also , we always hear to keep insulin as low as possible. like the low carb guy, Butter Bob Briggs. he did a Kraft blood insulin test. His baseline was 3 units. when he took glucose it went up to like 13 units, and his blood sugar when to like 300. It was like he was basically either glucose or insulin resistance from being low carb for so long.

Insulin should be normal and not as low as possible.

 

[Jaxx]

we see people with high and low insulin, with high progesterone. so progesterone itself will not be enough to say what you are.

We are trying this out. Stop asking for protocols. it is not a protocol yet. I need to see how people get balanced on this. And which routes to get them balanced.

I did not ask for a protocol, nor in any other of my posts.... i only asked if progesterone levels would be relevant in your theory.

 

[K8668B]

Im a pfs guy myself. I have trouble responding to many things. But i do have those rare random things that i do respond to. But Zinc is something i seemed to have responded to fairly well.
had another crash recently, about a few months ago, and the zinc literally pulled me out of the hole. Interesting.

I recently started supplementing with Zinc. Source naturals OptiZinc. It has Zinc monomethionine 30 mg, and copper sebacate 300mcg. I had some really good days on it. Still can have some bad days on it. Out of 10 days, i would say 6 of those days are good, and 4 of those days are bad.

I seem to have a sweet spot with how much i take. its all about the buildup of it in my system it seems. cycling somewhat seems ideal. if ive taken too much.. then ill stop taking.. and literally after a day or two of not taking it anymore, my energy levels get super high again. but if i go so long without zinc, it can lower my energy too.