I'm practically asexual at this point

Ailaeshiz

Member
Messages
43
I managed to have sex today, and it was easily the most confusing sex I've ever had in my life. I had no idea where to put my hands, when to kiss, how to thrust. It was all so foreign, like my body couldn't even understand the concept of sex. Nothing came naturally. The whole time I felt like I was just acting how I was supposed to act instead of just being in the moment. And when it was all over I experienced pain in my lower abdomen. It's amazing just how much I was relying on instinct and impulse prior to all this. Now I have to overthink every action I make, as I'm making it, just to appear as a normal human being.
 
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Canari

Member
Messages
1,609
I can understand all your words and why it happens like this. Instinct and impulse are sympathetic system, and all you describe is exactly a parasympathetic response making you separated from the instinct, with your thinking and your memory replacing what usually comes from the body own decision.

Today I was a little bit harrassed by a guy that insisted too much, and I got a dissociation response during a moment: he was just looking foreign, or "on a screen". Just to tell you that what you describe is not only a PFS sign. These are general signs of partial freeze or dissociation in the ANS, and what seems important is to see if you have some unnatural feelings in other circumstances of life. The signs are what you say: confusion, nothing is natural, you act thanks to your memory but you are not present, you feel you look at a movie that is not real, you feel in a bubble, things look foreign. Also feeling gravity less, numbness.
 

Willylong98

Well-Known Member
Messages
128
Hop on Test Enanthate 500mg for 6 weeks to test it out. I was exactly how you’re describing and taking test made my sex drive roar again I’ve come off and made permanent gains and can sexually function way way better than before touching steroids
 

Ailaeshiz

Member
Messages
43
Hop on Test Enanthate 500mg for 6 weeks to test it out. I was exactly how you’re describing and taking test made my sex drive roar again I’ve come off and made permanent gains and can sexually function way way better than before touching steroids
Not sure how I'm supposed to get access to that. My testosterone levels are perfectly fine.
 

Aflac94

Well-Known Member
Messages
380
I can understand all your words and why it happens like this. Instinct and impulse are sympathetic system, and all you describe is exactly a parasympathetic response making you separated from the instinct, with your thinking and your memory replacing what usually comes from the body own decision.

Today I was a little bit harrassed by a guy that insisted too much, and I got a dissociation response during a moment: he was just looking foreign, or "on a screen". Just to tell you that what you describe is not only a PFS sign. These are general signs of partial freeze or dissociation in the ANS, and what seems important is to see if you have some unnatural feelings in other circumstances of life. The signs are what you say: confusion, nothing is natural, you act thanks to your memory but you are not present, you feel you look at a movie that is not real, you feel in a bubble, things look foreign. Also feeling gravity less, numbness.

This is exactly what happened to me. sympathetic nervous system completely shut down. My heart rate cannot even stay elevated throughout exercise. Only initially then it slows. I used to be super sympathetic heart always up and racing in many situations. Now almost never. @Ailaeshiz I have the same issue of having to think now about everything or create what little feeling I can from memory since there is no natural instinct or drive :(
 

PAS

Well-Known Member
Messages
110
I managed to have sex today, and it was easily the most confusing sex I've ever had in my life. I had no idea where to put my hands, when to kiss, how to thrust. It was all so foreign, like my body couldn't even understand the concept of sex. Nothing came naturally. The whole time I felt like I was just acting how I was supposed to act instead of just being in the moment. And when it was all over I experienced pain in my lower abdomen. It's amazing just how much I was relying on instinct and impulse prior to all this. Now I have to overthink every action I make, as I'm making it, just to appear as a normal human being.
You just described me. I'm just breathing at this point, literally NO feeling except for the guilt of destroying my family's and loved ones' lives.
I cant even feel nostalgia, which is such a complex emotion. How did isotretinoin manage to fuck that up? Literally no feeling from music, earlier I used to associate imaginary stories or memories with each song or instrumental I used to hear, now I just hear the beats and lyrics, very difficult to describe.

This is something probably unique to me but I used to be so horny that EVERY yawn used to give me boners. Just the mention of the word boobs started bonerising my johnson. Now I look at it and say its just a body part. At night I used to wake up because my dick was so erect it hurt as if it was trying to launch into space. This is something embarassing but once I sleepwalked 200 meters and then masturbated in the public urinals, ALL WHILE SLEEPING! And that too in college! I can't even imagine doing that like that now.

Sorry for ranting guys,im really giving up on life and idk i just wanted to say how similar we are in this problem.

I ll write up every side effect in detail once i get home. It ll be good to compare and analyze what problems are common and to what degree(flynn was also asking for symptoms a few days earlier, but i was so depressed I couldnt even muster the motivation to talk to you guys who in the sams boat as me).i make my mother cry every time i talk to her, I break her heart saying how bad it is every single second. If that MIB flash device existed which made people forget memories, I would use it on everybody I knew because all I am capable of sharing now is sadness, nothing positive at all. Im already broken and I am just making my loved ones broken too. Once again really sorry for ranting guys really appreciate tue people here for sharing experiences
 

Canari

Member
Messages
1,609
This is exactly what happened to me. sympathetic nervous system completely shut down. My heart rate cannot even stay elevated throughout exercise. Only initially then it slows. I used to be super sympathetic heart always up and racing in many situations. Now almost never.
This is the vagus nerve that is too strong, as if it was a hand-brake on while driving!
This is important to know that the sympathetic system is not down but COVERED. This explains why, when the vagus nerve removes some of its grip, you can have a racing heart or anxiety or panic attack... So the vagus stops this again.... The vagus does this for a good reason! It works the same as having too low vitamine D just because your wise body do not want more calcium!
It is more difficult to talk about what I know about, just because there are no precise words and no precises measures with numbers, but this is science too. Adrenaline and cortisol are not sns: they are caused by it.

What you guys have, is a high sympathetic nervous system PLUS an apparent shut down due to the fuses of the system that have gone off, and it is a protective measure from your body. Working on this will help all your current treatment guys!
 

Namelk

Well-Known Member
Messages
107
I can understand all your words and why it happens like this. Instinct and impulse are sympathetic system, and all you describe is exactly a parasympathetic response making you separated from the instinct, with your thinking and your memory replacing what usually comes from the body own decision.

Today I was a little bit harrassed by a guy that insisted too much, and I got a dissociation response during a moment: he was just looking foreign, or "on a screen". Just to tell you that what you describe is not only a PFS sign. These are general signs of partial freeze or dissociation in the ANS, and what seems important is to see if you have some unnatural feelings in other circumstances of life. The signs are what you say: confusion, nothing is natural, you act thanks to your memory but you are not present, you feel you look at a movie that is not real, you feel in a bubble, things look foreign. Also feeling gravity less, numbness.

@Canari it's exactly how I feel all the time, as if I was not connected with my body and with my actions, depersonalization, it's the problem that bothers me most, I do not feel anything in my life, nor do I enjoy anything, it's like I'm in the pilot automatic just doing things
 

Flynn

Well-Known Member
Messages
207
I really think us PAS people need to experiment with some protocols. Most of the people who are trying protocols have PFS but their condition could be pretty different to ours (hopefully its not). Also many PAS people complain about the sexual symptoms but haven't tried protocols which have shown some success in PFS (at this point, anything is worth a try).

I really think some PAS people with sexual sides should try RU-486. From what I have read, accutane can:

1. Alter progesterone signalling as it significantly increases progesterone production

2. Cause HPA hyperactivity by altering glucocorticoid receptor function (reduces negative feedback of HPA)

3. Lower androgen receptor gene expression by 2.6 fold in skin (its possible this also occurs in other parts of the body such as the brain).

Now the big issue is we don't know if any of these effects remain after you stop treatment, I would expect most of them get back to normal when we stop accutane but its hard to know for sure. But each of these things could affect sexual function in some way. RU486 could alter progesterone signalling by antagonising the progesterone receptor, it could increase glucocorticoid receptor signalling by increasing glucocorticoid receptor expression (as it antagonises the glucocorticoid receptor) which would help resolve any potential issues with the HPA (as cortisol can start to reduce HPA activity) and it could increase androgen receptor expression as it blocks the androgen receptor, this may also lead to an increase in sex hormones such as testosterone and DHT.

It's a long shot but all 3 of these things can plausibly affect libido/sexual function. So RU-486 may help. I also haven't found one person with PAS and sexual sides who has experimented with RU-486, please let me know if there is somebody. Also RU-486 has an effect at the receptor side of things. It seems unlikely at this point, that our problems are due to low levels of certain hormones, as many PAS people have shown a range of hormone results with sexual sides such as high/low testosterone etc.
 

Aflac94

Well-Known Member
Messages
380
This is the vagus nerve that is too strong, as if it was a hand-brake on while driving!
This is important to know that the sympathetic system is not down but COVERED. This explains why, when the vagus nerve removes some of its grip, you can have a racing heart or anxiety or panic attack... So the vagus stops this again.... The vagus does this for a good reason! It works the same as having too low vitamine D just because your wise body do not want more calcium!
It is more difficult to talk about what I know about, just because there are no precise words and no precises measures with numbers, but this is science too. Adrenaline and cortisol are not sns: they are caused by it.

What you guys have, is a high sympathetic nervous system PLUS an apparent shut down due to the fuses of the system that have gone off, and it is a protective measure from your body. Working on this will help all your current treatment guys!

How do I fix this? Definately feels like finasteride blew a fuse in my body / sympathetic system, but don't know how to turn it back on??? So Paraysmpatheitc system will just keep overriding me? What was your suggestion for getting out of this I didn't understand?

I plan to try to eat toward a slow oxidizer diet and gain weight so i can attempt a long fast in the future. I also plan to try a mineral protocol if I ever figure out what that would be for me. Then I may go to the RU if I haven't made any progress.
 

MNK99

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,418
@Aflac94 I think you can fast without gaining weight first. Maybe not as long as you want. It just seems counterproductive.
Is it possible to fast and live with being thinner and then get back to working out after? I can see maybe it making sense to gain weight first if you want an epicly long fast.
 

B_D_Acc

Well-Known Member
Messages
55
I really think us PAS people need to experiment with some protocols. Most of the people who are trying protocols have PFS but their condition could be pretty different to ours (hopefully its not). Also many PAS people complain about the sexual symptoms but haven't tried protocols which have shown some success in PFS (at this point, anything is worth a try).

I really think some PAS people with sexual sides should try RU-486. From what I have read, accutane can:

1. Alter progesterone signalling as it significantly increases progesterone production

2. Cause HPA hyperactivity by altering glucocorticoid receptor function (reduces negative feedback of HPA)

3. Lower androgen receptor gene expression by 2.6 fold in skin (its possible this also occurs in other parts of the body such as the brain).

Now the big issue is we don't know if any of these effects remain after you stop treatment, I would expect most of them get back to normal when we stop accutane but its hard to know for sure. But each of these things could affect sexual function in some way. RU486 could alter progesterone signalling by antagonising the progesterone receptor, it could increase glucocorticoid receptor signalling by increasing glucocorticoid receptor expression (as it antagonises the glucocorticoid receptor) which would help resolve any potential issues with the HPA (as cortisol can start to reduce HPA activity) and it could increase androgen receptor expression as it blocks the androgen receptor, this may also lead to an increase in sex hormones such as testosterone and DHT.

It's a long shot but all 3 of these things can plausibly affect libido/sexual function. So RU-486 may help. I also haven't found one person with PAS and sexual sides who has experimented with RU-486, please let me know if there is somebody. Also RU-486 has an effect at the receptor side of things. It seems unlikely at this point, that our problems are due to low levels of certain hormones, as many PAS people have shown a range of hormone results with sexual sides such as high/low testosterone etc.

I agree RU486 is worth a try. I would have tried it myself but it's so damn expensive and I don't know if it would get stuck in customs here.
 

Canari

Member
Messages
1,609
@Canari it's exactly how I feel all the time, as if I was not connected with my body and with my actions, depersonalization, it's the problem that bothers me most, I do not feel anything in my life, nor do I enjoy anything, it's like I'm in the pilot automatic just doing things
Yes I understand and know what it is, though I feel this occasionally, it correspond to what i said just above your post. As it was mentionned in another topic, by Ghost and others, it is close to a form of ptsd and will have to be addressed. The best way to think about it for the moment, is to understand that this is a protective mecanism. It is beyond the fight and flight mode. When those 2 Fs do not work, then the body turns to the 3rd, Freeze. It is a form of anestesia, but it is not meant to last. The problem is that when you have a health issue with the "tiger" inside, like chemicals, then your body cannot fight it nor go away, so it "ignores" it, and separates you from feeling it. Even when you get better with a protocole, this leaves some print in the body, so you will have to take care. The good news is that when you live such strong times, and when you do the somatic personal work, it gives you a transformation boost that changes your life for the best, it increases your resilience and makes you stronger for further adverse events. By "somatic" I mean felt-sense, body level, what you feel in your body. Other sources talk about the embodiment of emotions. You describe perfectly that your body feels disconnected. This is not at all psychological, this is physiological, this is not mental, this is really in the body. And this is almost unknow to medicine, psychology, etc. I have even seen a difference from my neuro-science course, because they specialise too much in the limbic brain, and I asked one, she answered she did not know much about the autonomic nervous system. Those who know about it know about neurotransmitors, but these are induced by the nervous system, they are not the nerves.

What I believe too, is that all who experience this disconnection are misunderstood from their relatives. People will not understand that you should just do a will-power effort, have positive thoughts etc. Some of them will make you feel that you deserve what happens to you, or at best they will feel for you but feel powerless to help you. And when they show this and feel bad, you even feel worse because you feel responsible for them, though you are not. The best they can do is give you unconditionnal support and acceptance.

How do I fix this? Definately feels like finasteride blew a fuse in my body / sympathetic system, but don't know how to turn it back on??? So Paraysmpatheitc system will just keep overriding me? What was your suggestion for getting out of this I didn't understand?

1st learn and understand how the ANS works. It is relieving already to know that your reaction is normal. Even if you get better with protocols, you still have to do this, you need both ways, because nervous system is a system, so it can get hurt. The physical part of the body needs repair with protocols, good food and good life-style. The nervous part is electric and needs repair at a level that is different because it is electric if I can say. But I do not believe in cognitive therapy so much for a deep effect, because it is a top-down approach. When you go the bottom-up approach, you address the body sensations directly. There is no recipe/protocol for this because it is your body who does it automatically. We just need to learn how to not oppose the process with our cortex. My 1st suggestion is always to learn with the cortex, so that you know what to "not do", so that your body can do the job.

I have posted quite a lot of stuff in the stress management forum, and whatever is not clear I will explain more there. As I have been through the process myself and still apply it to my life, I know how I do it. As sessions of somatic work for ptsd cost quite a lot, the cheapest I have found, or complementary, is the program of Irene Lyon. The 21 days program is affordable and brings more for the bucks than sessions. I know how it works, and I chose to pay for it last october! And I got some benefits, and I discharged more of my own frozen stuff! And it is paid for life, you can stay in the FB group and go on doing it.

The most important is to inform at the same time your family, so that they know they have to not be affected so that they can help you and sustain you by their own mere life energy. I am sure you all know that you feel better around humans, if they are stable. We are not meant to be Robinson Crusoe without dreaming for a Friday!
 

Namelk

Well-Known Member
Messages
107
@Canari My father and mother do not help me, I took accutane with 17 and I'm 20 now, I live alone and have to work to support myself, when I tried to talk to them they said that everything was on my mind, I can not take it anymore, to have to feel obligated to do everything without pleasure in anything, to still have to work and to give hard to live a life without feelings and seeming that I am not here, I need to correct this year, I can not live like this seeing my life pass. .. and this is just one of the problems, out of libido problems, extreme tiredness, etc ..., my job is extremely stressful and I need him to survive to keep me, for me I had left everything, but while wanting to be alive I need to work...
I am on the verge of suicide, I am taking finasteride based on the boys who have healed from accutane so I am taking it for the second time for 25 days, except that this time I added zinc, after that I will try to take copper and see if something happens if nothing improves in that time, about 2 months, I must abandon everything, my job, etc. and stay fast for 30 to 40 days, if I do not improve my life will be over
I was always extremely intelligent and cheerful at school and I was going to do medicine, I had to abandon everything and just keep the job to support myself while I'm trying to heal myself ...
 
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PAS

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110
@Namelk I feel you bro, the one thing that I got lucky at is getting the best friends and family. I used to be so social, but when this shit struck me, I started talking less and less. Now it has been 2.5 years and I have stopped talking with almost everybody because I just made them sad. Since 2.5 years there has only been one thing on my mind, how I destroyed my parents lives, because they can only be happy if I am happy. I have forgotten how to talk to people, I have forgotten the instincts that normal humans have, I have forgotten what feelings feel like. I took this shit when I was 20 and now I am 23, the best years of our lives just disappeared, gone to waste.
 

Canari

Member
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1,609
they said that everything was on my mind,
So wrong.... Global misunderstanding.... People almost never know how to support others...

Aren't there stuff that could make people understand that things are not in the mind? Could we look for articles on the web that talk about it, and that things in the mind happen from things in the body? Actually, this is I think my motivation in writing stuff about the nervous system. It would be so helpful if people were able to support each other! It has been prooved that only immigrants and poor people living very much in groups still have kept this way of being with others.... My mother told me about this and how it was during the war when she was a child! Up to the point that I was thinking war was a good thing!

the best years of our lives just disappeared
My experience says there are good ones later!

they can only be happy if I am happy.
Not helping either, but most parents are like this! I could not share my bad stuff ever, with my parents, just because they would feel unhappy... and my mother was feeling guilty. (yes of course my body was affected by those chemicals, but she was affected to and was not the culprit!). Guilt is a separating feeling.
 

Ailaeshiz

Member
Messages
43
I don't think any of us could be blamed if we just committed suicide and got it over with. Noone is willing to listen to people with invisible problems so why bother?
 

PAS

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Messages
110
If we die our problems are over man, but our loved ones will be fucked for their lives. That is the reason why I am alive, and believe me, I dont want to suffer anymore too. IDK man I want you to live and get better while wanting to die myself haha wtf
 

barbaar

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Messages
807
I don't think any of us could be blamed if we just committed suicide and got it over with. Noone is willing to listen to people with invisible problems so why bother?

I've thought about that too, but I'm not going to risk not being around when we eventually find a fix.

Plus I don't want to hurt my family.