Is it possible that PFS makes you less attractive to women?

[jacknap]

Did you experience physical changes?
Facial structure changing or penile/testicular shrinkage?

didn't have penis shrinkage. I had testicular (back to normal)
and facial puffyniss (improved but not back to normal but I also put on like 8 pounds and when I was fasting it seemed normal or close to normal

 

[hopeforrecovery]

I've Heard and read a lot about People WHO experienced a very hard pain when they have bone loss. I never experienced this.
But I think that my facial bone structure has changed too.
How is that possible if bone loss hurts usually?

 

[Slayo]

I've Heard and read a lot about People WHO experienced a very hard pain when they have bone loss. I never experienced this.
But I think that my facial bone structure has changed too.
How is that possible if bone loss hurts usually?

Subcutsneus fat change/loss, trust me it can be very bad

 

[hopeforrecovery]

Subcutsneus fat change/loss, trust me it can be very bad

But this sounds definitely more easy to recover than bone loss

 

[Slayo]

But this sounds definitely more easy to recover than bone loss

Yes it can be recovered, bone loss i don't think it can be recovered

 

[hopeforrecovery]

Yes it can be recovered, bone loss i don't think it can be recovered

Okay. So if I never felt pain in my face it can't be real bone loss?

 

[BeLikeWater]

How can pheromones be noticed from girls? I mean how would you explain that.

Smell bro

 

[BeLikeWater]

No, after Ella my face returned to normal and skin was oilier.

Yes?? I have got plenty of wrinkles from pfs

 

[Reverse]

I've Heard and read a lot about People WHO experienced a very hard pain when they have bone loss. I never experienced this.
But I think that my facial bone structure has changed too.
How is that possible if bone loss hurts usually?

I didn't experience pain in facial bones when I lost mass there. I do remember having numbness and strange pressure(not painful) when I would try to smile.

 

[Goose12]

Yes?? I have got plenty of wrinkles from pfs

Wrinkles under eyes are slowly, seeming to fade on trace elements. Skin is getting that youthful glow again.

If I can completely get rid of the wrinkle I will be amazed but I am hopeful.

 

[MNK99]

That's awesome man! @Goose12. Just a couple yrs ago, people were surprised by my age, and said oh you don't need retin A and all that stuff yet. AND also my bro (facial cosmetics surgeon) does say, retin A after 30... but depends I'm sure.

Might start taking it more regularly, but that sounds like something that's hard to remember in addition to every thing else. I did at times before fin, but the creams are expensive. Again, as I've said lots of times, I am 100% certain I looked older and worse in the months-to-a-year following EFFEXOR, than afterwards. I literally looked younger at 24 than I did at 22 (in my university ID card). But yeah, we all gotta remember especially in earlier stages, to disregard our vanity nature, in favor of our overall health and getting better at all period (no offense to anyone, obviously I'm vain at times, I took Accutane and Fin, and Spiro cream, etc).

 

[RebelWithACause]

It's hormonal. I think women are sensitive to it. They know subconsciously if you are high T/high DHT. Higher GABA (from DHT) also means relaxed facial muscles. Most guys in PFS are very anxious. You can read this on your face. These are all elements that play a role. High stress is unattractive to women.

When I took Proviron (exogonous DHT) + TRT dose of testosterone while being in PFS + having the bloated face from PFS women came up to me randomly. Woman at work wanted to buy me food. Girls flirting with me overtly in the train. Real weird shit sometimes. But I had zero libido, was depressed and I did not look that healthy at all.

I also noticed this when I used to take phenibut. Women were receptive and came up to me sometimes even.

Men are focussed on looks primarily. Women also look for how you act: are you nervous, how do you deal with other people, are you confident, etc.

Men try to project what they find attractive in women on men (e.g. looks).Truth is, I've seen plenty of ugly mofo's bang hotties. These dudes had game and something going for them in life. Of course looks help. But it is not the end all. So if you are an ugly fuck, buy some nice clothing, stay in shape and become red pill.

Focus on getting out of PFS. That should be your goal. Your face will improve, you will get more water retention in face and less wrinkles. Meanwhile also learn game, get red pilled (read The Rational Male) and build something for yourself.

 

[MNK99]

Definitely game is a big part of it.
And it's gotta be solvable (the hormonal stuff at least) for many of us.

If you're pretty but socially/mentally a weirdo it hurts a lot.... I hear. Plenty of shorter, fatter, gayer guys than me banging a lot of girls.





The plus side to that is that opens up crazier girls and they got better "stuff" than the normal ones.
I don't think it's "opposites attract". Attraction is instantaneous, and then with all their shit-tests, you make it or break it if you have the time/motivation/care/want to get laid, etc...
And then there's friendship and stuff.... I went out iwith girls fatter, drunker, and crazier than I am now.... I got laid in good shape at times, but prospects didn't change too much. MAYBE as I get older - in that you're expected to have more.
But if you look youger not bad. Quitting drinking hurt things if anything - bc., then can't meet them. But sober better, less idiots. There's self-selection, hobbies/school/work/people that are like=-minded meet each other. I kind of hate most groups... sp lone wolf/aloof/distant/indirect... works better for me. Social group dating is good too... but timing's always bad for me. Sometimes its good.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Definitely game is a big part of it.
And it's gotta be solvable (the hormonal stuff at least) for many of us.

If you're pretty but socially/mentally a weirdo it hurts a lot.... I hear. Plenty of shorter, fatter, gayer guys than me banging a lot of girls.





The plus side to that is that opens up crazier girls and they got better "stuff" than the normal ones.
I don't think it's "opposites attract". Attraction is instantaneous, and then with all their shit-tests, you make it or break it if you have the time/motivation/care/want to get laid, etc...
And then there's friendship and stuff.... I went out iwith girls fatter, drunker, and crazier than I am now.... I got laid in good shape at times, but prospects didn't change too much. MAYBE as I get older - in that you're expected to have more.
But if you look youger not bad. Quitting drinking hurt things if anything - bc., then can't meet them. But sober better, less idiots. There's self-selection, hobbies/school/work/people that are like=-minded meet each other. I kind of hate most groups... sp lone wolf/aloof/distant/indirect... works better for me. Social group dating is good too... but timing's always bad for me. Sometimes its good.

Yes weirdo's are repulsive to women. If you have to then you should hide it. I do not think most people are weirdo's but they have bad habits. Drugs, porn, isolation, etc. all make you a bit weirder.

It is better to be socially savvy and ugly than the other way around. Although like I said good looks help. Because they are good advertisement to the opposite sex. For women looking good is even more important. Men primarily look for looks in women.

Having good hormones as a man (high T/high DHT) will automatically give you more game. It does not make you a casanova but it will make you very attractive to the opposite sex. Even when your looks are not great/top tier.

I fucked the hottest instagram fitnesss girl that I ever fucked in my life up until this day when my hormones were good (high T/high DHT + high confidence feeling) and I had zero game and was on the fatter/chubby side. My body looked shitty. My face was puffed up from extra BF%. Still she was extremely attracted to me. This girl was a fitness girl, around guys who use anabolic steroids and have fitness bodies. Yet she was more attracted to me. Because I was extremely confident. I treated her like a normal girl, like a little brat.

It showed me that girls do not care that much about looks as long as you do not care much about it.

It also showed me the importance of having good hormones in life. It is essential to live a succesful life imo.

That is why now I started my road to natural high T and good hormones in general. Instead of taking anabolic steroids which do not give me the same feeling.

With low T everything is harder. You have to fake everything all the time. At least for me. When your hormones are good you feel inner confidence automatically. You can still have social anxiety but man it is a world of difference between low T and high T. Low T = life on hard mode.

I do not think you need 1000+ ng/dl testosterone levels to feel good though. But at least in normal range around 500-600 ng/dl + good amount of free T, estrogen and DHT.

 

[djohn051]

Yes weirdo's are repulsive to women. If you have to then you should hide it. I do not think most people are weirdo's but they have bad habits. Drugs, porn, isolation, etc. all make you a bit weirder.

It is better to be socially savvy and ugly than the other way around. Although like I said good looks help. Because they are good advertisement to the opposite sex. For women looking good is even more important. Men primarily look for looks in women.

Having good hormones as a man (high T/high DHT) will automatically give you more game. It does not make you a casanova but it will make you very attractive to the opposite sex. Even when your looks are not great/top tier.

I fucked the hottest instagram fitnesss girl that I ever fucked in my life up until this day when my hormones were good (high T/high DHT + high confidence feeling) and I had zero game and was on the fatter/chubby side. My body looked shitty. My face was puffed up from extra BF%. Still she was extremely attracted to me. This girl was a fitness girl, around guys who use anabolic steroids and have fitness bodies. Yet she was more attracted to me. Because I was extremely confident. I treated her like a normal girl, like a little brat.

It showed me that girls do not care that much about looks as long as you do not care much about it.

It also showed me the importance of having good hormones in life. It is essential to live a succesful life imo.

That is why now I started my road to natural high T and good hormones in general. Instead of taking anabolic steroids which do not give me the same feeling.

With low T everything is harder. You have to fake everything all the time. At least for me. When your hormones are good you feel inner confidence automatically. You can still have social anxiety but man it is a world of difference between low T and high T. Low T = life on hard mode.

I do not think you need 1000+ ng/dl testosterone levels to feel good though. But at least in normal range around 500-600 ng/dl + good amount of free T, estrogen and DHT.

All very interesting and I completely agree. Before PFS I used to get a fair amount of attention from girls and I could actually sense the sexual tension in the air. Since PFS I NEVER get that feeling at all. I think it is important to also state that not only do I think it is important to have higher androgen levels, it is important that your body is actually processing and binding them correctly. My testosterone is 800 ng/dl but my musculature, sexuality, and other symptoms make it painfully apparent that my body is not processing them correctly.

 

[MNK99]

Def. just "weirdo" or no social skills, functionally socially "retarded" (I don't like that term and feel bad for using it, will change this) is = game over in dating success.
But, also if you are super sociable, but say "YES" to everything, this is also bad. Better to be alone and work on self. And then single and ready to mingle, probs solved.

 

[MNK99]

May be wrong or I am imagining things.
But I think some facial changes (I can think of 2 one barely there, one makes me not happy about this PFS sitn but only noticable with a large exaggerated smile), I think* it gets better and is less pronounced of a change, i.e. improved but then a bit bad at night. Can't say for sure BC it's hard to tell but I think that it's improving, didn't want to write it BC i think it's bad luck, but just in case I forget for a long time.

 

[Aflac94]

@MNK99 I’m having a hard time reading your posts because of how long they are; I read everything on here. I can’t read yours because of the length.

I mean no offense at all and if you prefer them at that length feel free to keep going. Just would be easier for me and maybe others to read and respond to your ideas if they were shorter

 

[MNK99]

TL;DR - In short: "It's ALL A GAME"
#1. goals and money over everything.
0. Be attractive and not unattractive.
1. Attraction is instantaneous, and "game" leads to sex vs. "sorry I have a bf."/"I like you as a friend." (Lol, fuck friendship). Also, other random factors you cannot control, but if it's a game of numbers that doesn't matter.
2. Self-Investment OVER everyone and everything.

(Your career, your health, your looks, your ability to replace a partner if and when things go awry). AND*** that will allow you to be a better provider/caregiver (whatever) too when someone worth marrying comes along.
3. Allowing one to be VULNERABLE --- and never fake. Leading, escalation and creating intimacy quickly, multiple active "dating areas" would be ideal, in one date.
4. NEVER NEEDY. Ever... for anything.
5. More money, more status, more success, FAME, etc will help you even if you're a douchebag but most don't get famous. Locally famous maybe. LOOKS beats all of that (except fame) - hence working out, eating rite, hair drugs, steroids, etc.

6. LOOKS matter - height, face, hair, nose, eyes, cleanliness, grooming, self care, bf%, tanning. Race - matters to a lot of ppl, as does accent and all that (coming from a non-white guy).
-Car, money, dress... your style, speaking voice, posture, ability to pursuade/manipulate/convince/lie/sell a story/ etc.
--It's all like MARKETING REALLY.
--Lots of this is distilled information from several game books and high-acheiving daters and degenerates alike.
--Logic also.

7. SOCIAL CIRCLE matters too (I'm out then for getting super high numbers, but end of day I don't care bc 6 h wasted to have sex 1-3 times with some drunk/druggy/non-interesting girl) isn't worth it, that often.

8. THE LONGER YOU KNOW THEM WITHOUT SLEEPING WITH tHEM ---- THE LESS LIKELY THAT IS TO EVER OCCUR, so don't even bother, find someone else. --Sex --> FWB, partners, wife, gf, open relnship or whatever sleazy perverse thing kids are into these days.

9. Never cry and never let someone show you up. Be dominant everywhere you are. If you're weak / workout, if you cry... man up, if people abuse you... fight back, etc. If you're bi, stick to guys - it's easier haha jk, threw that one in there.

10. Travel, read, learn... know how to talk about the arts and all that stuff....
11. Approach girls till rejected or accepted thousands of times, till you never feel or care or think ever.

-insecurity, anxiety, wanting to be liked... being yourself if it's crappy, waiting for the perfect time = sexual death.
-being a perfect, good, loving, happy boy with zero ambition and desire, people-pleasing = sexual death.

---> afterthought: Being nice, a "good person", "caring", "well-behaved" is nowhere on this list I just made up. above all self-investment.

-If this is too long or seems "crazy", then don't read this even longer and more cynical story.

-Story time:
Basically:
-LOOKS aren't everything.
-GAME matters a lot.
-BUT, social skills aren't all there is to game.
-There can be like inner game... and other game. Like nightclub vs. daytime (sober game). Indirect vs. direct, etc.
-Looks cannot be everything bc at what I considered to be my best looking (tho I was skinny and probably it was just bc I had the most hair, and no scars, and I was very young then), I had ZERO sex ever (18-20).
-Actually was overweight and had way more sex (like 18-20lb overweight maybe less) right after that, but then again that was a v strange time (post-effexor/pssd/and mania*** - medn caused).

-I blur the lines a lot and feel that "game" in life...
-Being low inhibition helps business, and dating... and making friends and literally everything (to a limit!) It can also be super dangerous and confusing.

 

[RebelWithACause]

All very interesting and I completely agree. Before PFS I used to get a fair amount of attention from girls and I could actually sense the sexual tension in the air. Since PFS I NEVER get that feeling at all. I think it is important to also state that not only do I think it is important to have higher androgen levels, it is important that your body is actually processing and binding them correctly. My testosterone is 800 ng/dl but my musculature, sexuality, and other symptoms make it painfully apparent that my body is not processing them correctly.

I think it is also caused by lower estrogen (caused by PFS or for example Arimidex) I crashed my estrogen before with Arimidex and I felt zero attraction between me and girls. It made gaming girls very easy because I felt zero emotion. I was like a robot/psychopath. But then I ended up in bed with them (with ease) and I could not get dick up at all. It was completely dead. LOL So it's useless.

When my estrogen is higher I feel more attraction to girls and from girls. My libido is also higher. I last longer in bed. I also smell more smells in the air. Sense of smell is better. I am calmer. Especially in combination with DHT I feel good. Very calm and energetic at same time.

With low estrogen this all goes to shit. I become robot. I lack complete empathy and I feel not connected to the world. I also feel on edge all the time like you want to say very mean things to a person. Even though normally I am friendly guy.

PFS definitely has something to do with estrogen.

Even now I still have issues with estrogen. It seems very hard for me to increase estrogen and I quickly get lower estrogen side effects it seems. I do not tolerate any AI (anti aromatase) at ANY dosage (Aromasin or Arimidex)

Although drinking for me feels great. Which in PFS it did not. I also am not bloated at all anymore. The opposite. My face is chiseled even with 14% body fat. Same goes for stomach issues they are 100% gone. No more bloated stomach.

I am fairly certain I am healed from the worst issues with PFS BUT I have a few small lingering problems. Mostly estrogen problems (dryer skin - not completely dry but dryer then before, OCD tendency, a little bit on edge). These are small issues and I can live life normally. But I want them fixed.

I am going to fix these problems in next few months.