Methylation / Methylation-protocols benefits / mistakes ?

[supernature]

I doubt methylation people look at it correctly. I think it is just since NADPH is lacking. MTHFR does not work, also folic into tetrafolate does not work. And MOREVER they are going backwards.

There isnt supposed to be a methylfolate without NADPH. Bypassing it. Creates oxidative stress

SO I think methylation enzymes just go backwards, basically MTHF goes backwards, DHFR goes backwards. This is all to produce NADPH

This is why they says that methylfolate recycles bh4, or folate recycles bh4. Since tetrafolate or methylfolate going backwards will produce NADPH. Then this NADPH will recycle glutathione which will recycle vitamin C which will recycle bh4.

Lack of NADPH is what causes hairloss and methyl block.

...

 

[Kiwiii]

take nadph?

 

[supernature]

take nadph?

...

 

[Kiwiii]

Thats gonna be the end product of the IDH1 and 2, which is outside the citric acid cycle i think and its supposed to use NADP as a cofactor. IDH3 is happening inside the citric acid cycle and uses NAD as a cofactor. It might be able to bypass the enzyme function after all.

So what to take ?

 

[supernature]

...

 

[Yura]

I doubt methylation people look at it correctly. I think it is just since NADPH is lacking. MTHFR does not work, also folic into tetrafolate does not work. And MOREVER they are going backwards.

By giving methylfolate, some people are losing their gums , since there is no mutation really . There is lack of NADPH. And without NADHP you cant keep going further into thyroid, or l dopa , all those enzymes produce superoxide. and H2O2. This is why people taking methylfolate have all these inflammations and they call it detox)).

There isnt supposed to be a methylfolate without NADPH. Bypassing it. Creates oxidative stress. Freddd encountered it by almost losing all his teeth))

SO I think methylation enzymes just go backwards, basically MTHF goes backwards, DHFR goes backwards. This is all to produce NADPH

This is why they says that methylfolate recycles bh4, or folate recycles bh4. Since tetrafolate or methylfolate going backwards will produce NADPH. Then this NADPH will recycle glutathione which will recycle vitamin C which will recycle bh4.

And actually if you take folic acid, that will stop backward movement of Dhfr and people feel bad.

Lack of NADPH is what causes hairloss and methyl block.

vitamin C and NADPH is what turns cholesterol into bile acids. So this is the same. Most things really are about keeping vitamin C in active form along with vitamin E.

aging is the same. hairloss is the same. Vitamin C is what activates vasopressin. SO without active recycled C , you are screwed. since you will be dehydrated.

NO active C , no vasopressin, no active C - no bh4. You are offically dehydrated and eNOS making superoxide, Double whammy , how can hair survive this.

Basically a pool of free NADPH is what allows the body to run faster . LIttle pool of NADPH< boom slow down and sit. By passing it with thyroids, methylfolates, etc is weird if you ask me. May be that is why RIck Van K, died a couple of years ago. Who was into this methylation thing. Suddenly just died. I guess from a heart attack. And we know that heart wont handle oxidative stress. if you lose your gums like that. You can really lose heart tissue the same way.

SO we need to be careful about all this active stuff. IMO

So if this is true. Then ARL program full of active B vitamins, vit C, vit E etc.. is last thing what I should do? It fits in my case since I am crazy dehydrated no matter what I am doing for a long time. So I should stop taking vit C,E, active Bs? You said that just sitting in this state is also not a solution. You said like the body will adapt by slowing down more and more and this is aging. Now you also said that hydrogen water is probably also not a good idea. So what should I do... The benefit of hydrogen water for reducing hydroxyl radical is still true right? Is there any better way to increase this NADPH than reducing oxidative stress by hydrogen water for example??

 

[Helen]

So if this is true. Then ARL program full of active B vitamins, vit C, vit E etc.. is last thing what I should do? It fits in my case since I am crazy dehydrated no matter what I am doing for a long time. So I should stop taking vit C,E, active Bs? You said that just sitting in this state is also not a solution. You said like the body will adapt by slowing down more and more and this is aging. Now you also said that hydrogen water is probably also not a good idea. So what should I do. "just do hair test and follow the program" So I payed for the hair test and supps with my last money (earned by fucking hard job in warehouse) and now I read this.. That these supps are actually hurting me? I am done with this joke..

I never said hydrogen water is not good. I said it could just have an effect just like protonated water. I inhale hydrogen myself daily.

I was discussing what it does and what it costs.

As far as methylation is concerned this is a theory, and I might not be correct. this is not an advice, this is just a discussion.

Active Bs will provide you with more NADPH. But could create more oxidative stress. IMO

T
If you take active Bs you will have more NADPH. Since methylfolate will go backwards and will make you NADPH.

I guess if ARL changed their program , they tested this. But they did not not have active Bs in their program before/

Also they have all Bs to create NADPH, like b2 and b1 and NAD in their program.


I was just theorizing with Matty, what was the real block in methylation. I dont know if it is nessesary to take active Bs to unblock it.

Amy Yasko gives active Bs to tons of people with autism this and that with good results. but she also gives folic acid. and folinic acid in her protocols.

To me it is just weird that the person lived a normal life, then got sick at some point of their life and it is because of mutations.


It is obviously because of gluthathione recycling not some mutations. If a person is born with autism or something, may be they have a mutation. Who knows.

 

[Helen]

As Helen is pointing out above, methylation block is happening due to inadequate NADPH formation and/or simultaneous interaction with the methyl enzymes, but why its NADPH isnt available in first place ?


@Helen Do you think this has to do with the PICD gene responsible for isocitrate metabolism or maybe its a missing cofactors for IDH enzyme like magnesium and/or manganese ?

There could be extra demand for NADPH happening to recycle glutathione . NADPH Is made in the pentose pathway, with NAD and b1. and glutathione recycled with b1 b2 b3.

 

[Yura]

I never said hydrogen water is not good. I said it could just have an effect just like protonated water. I inhale hydrogen myself daily.

As far as methylation is concerned this is a theory, and I might not be correct. this is not an advice, this is just a discussion.

Active Bs will provide you with more NADPH. But could create more oxidative stress. IMO

T
If you take active Bs you will have more NADPH. Since methylfolate will go backwards and will make you NADPH.

I guess if ARL changed their program , they tested this. But they did not not have active Bs in their program before/

Also they have all Bs to create NADPH, like b2 and b1 and NAD in their program.

Protonated water has also this hydroxyl radical neutralization effect??? Because I assume that this is the biggest benefit of hydrogen rich water right?
So I should continue with hydrogen water + lower carb since hydrogen water will block sugar metabolism anyway and also sugars create a lot of oxidative stress? This should reduce oxidative stress so I can use acive Bs etc.. While working on mercury cleanse from my digestive tract with chlorella, charcoal..? Also this should be very good for NADPH?? Life Extension, NAD + Cell Regenerator Nicotinamide Riboside, 250 mg , 30 Vegetarian Capsules Maybe you should recommend this in your health protocol?

 

[Yura]

ALso what you thing about D-ribose @Helen ? Is that any helpful?

 

[Helen]

Protonated water has also this hydroxyl radical neutralization effect??? Because I assume that this is the biggest benefit of hydrogen rich water right?
So I should continue with hydrogen water + lower carb since hydrogen water will block sugar metabolism anyway and also sugars create a lot of oxidative stress? This should reduce oxidative stress so I can use acive Bs etc.. While working on mercury cleanse from my digestive tract with chlorella, charcoal..? Also this should be very good for NADPH?? Life Extension, NAD + Cell Regenerator Nicotinamide Riboside, 250 mg , 30 Vegetarian Capsules Maybe you should recommend this in your health protocol?

Yura, do you have your blog? can you describe exactly what is going on with you?

 

[Yura]

Yura, do you have your blog? can you describe exactly what is going on with you?

I described this many times. It is useless here..

 

[supernature]

There could be extra demand for NADPH happening to recycle glutathione . NADPH Is made in the pentose pathway, with NAD and b1. and glutathione recycled with b1 b2 b3.

...

 

[Yura]

"but why NADPH is not working smoothly in first place is the question."

I found on another forum

Note that low NADPH has a lot of ramifications: NADPH is normally used to convert folic acid to THF. It is also used to reduce oxidized glutathione. It also supports Phase I detox by the CYP450 enzymes. It does other good things, also.
I think that the reason it is low in ME/CFS is that the main source of it is the pentose phosphate shunt on the glycolysis pathway. When the mitochondria become dysfunctional in ME/CFS, the cells are forced to ramp up glycolysis to try to make up the shortfall in ATP production. This is done primarily by the enzyme phosphofructokinase, which is upregulated by low ATP and high AMP. When this occurs, more of the flow goes through the main glycolysis chain, and less is available to enter the pentose phosphate shunt, so less NADP+ gets reduced to NADPH, and therefore, NADPH goes down. "

New biomarker test for ME/CFS: NADPH measurement at Riordan Clinic

 

[Orion]

"but why NADPH is not working smoothly in first place is the question."

I found on another forum

Note that low NADPH has a lot of ramifications: NADPH is normally used to convert folic acid to THF. It is also used to reduce oxidized glutathione. It also supports Phase I detox by the CYP450 enzymes. It does other good things, also.
I think that the reason it is low in ME/CFS is that the main source of it is the pentose phosphate shunt on the glycolysis pathway. When the mitochondria become dysfunctional in ME/CFS, the cells are forced to ramp up glycolysis to try to make up the shortfall in ATP production. This is done primarily by the enzyme phosphofructokinase, which is upregulated by low ATP and high AMP. When this occurs, more of the flow goes through the main glycolysis chain, and less is available to enter the pentose phosphate shunt, so less NADP+ gets reduced to NADPH, and therefore, NADPH goes down. "

New biomarker test for ME/CFS: NADPH measurement at Riordan Clinic

Is this also related to having large storage of PUFA's, from a standard western diet, margarine, deep dried vegetable oils, processed vegetable fat foods, etc... so there is not clean burning of sugars?

 

[Yura]

I think that everything in human body is related.. That's why it is so hard to tell what is going on..

 

[supernature]

How are the inhalations going? my hydrofix arrived, iv been doing hour long sessions every night straight through the cannula (no headset)...all my breathing problems have now disappeared, breathing back to normal again. i also do believe the water is superior to high rich, but thats just me (or could be cause its 0.3 stronger, dunno, it just feels better)

...

 

[Helen]

Im aware NADPH is generated in the PPP path, a theory of NADPH as possible block in the Methyl cycle is fine, thats why i initiate the IDH enzyme as a possible reason why its problematic, which goes through Mg, Mn, NAD, isocitrate, aconitase, the levels of 2-oxoglutarate, cis acconitate when organic acids are measured etc., also the PICD gene responsible for NADPH regeneration as possible reason why its not working smoothly.

Its ok to look at metabolism not working and NADPH as a cause, but why NADPH is not working smoothly in first place is the question.


"There could be extra demand for NADPH happening to recycle glutathione"

What you mean by this ?

I assume it could be many reasons like increased proliferation of species like escherichia coli or other things or increased proliferation of cells like growth of tumors or increased immune reaction fighting pathogens, all this should increase the demand for more NADPH and thus spending it in higher rate.

Heres the proof, E. Coli has the same very similar enzyme structure and function of IDH, so if E. coli if too much and in excess can make the IDH enzyme of the host with diminished activity, so NADPH recycling goes down.

To recylce glutathione you need FAD and NADPH. To make methylfolate you need FAD and NADPH. SO if there is enough fad and NADPH out there, that means the body has no problems recycling glutathione. And this allows the body to start steroids, which is NADPH dependant, methylation which is NADPH and FAD dependent etc

 

[Helen]

600 mg of thiamin HCL, 500 mg of B5, 100-200 mg of b6 and 250-500 mg of niacinamide, along with 3-10 mg folate and some B12 to balance out 100 mg of riboflavin.

This will recycle glutathione

 

[supernature]

To recylce glutathione you need FAD and NADPH. To make methylfolate you need FAD and NADPH. SO if there is enough fad and NADPH out there, that means the body has no problems recycling glutathione. And this allows the body to start steroids, which is NADPH dependant, methylation which is NADPH and FAD dependent etc

...