ESTRONE VS ESTRADIOL RATIO as the cause of PFS and hairloss.

[Area-1255]

It is all about FAD and NADPH. not just NADPH. they recycle glutathione . pyridoxine is activated by FAD or zinc. so it is about pyridoxine. this is why I give b1 and b2. and b6 This will convert tryptophan to niacin with zero problems, chelate iron( if you have it high) , retain potassium and increase NADPH.
NADPH oxidase will be activated when there is no potassium. So potassium is important along with magnesium
In chizo there is high dopamine, since ascorbate is not recycled by glutathione. You need Fad and NADPH for that.
It is all about the balance of FAD with NADPH. One makes another work.
if there is no NADPH , FAD wont be available either, since NADPH oxidase = FAD enzyme.
Riboflavin + NADPH= reduced ribo
And b6 active( which is fad or zinc) wont be working if there is no histidine, or there is high histamine. Since they convert histidine into histamine.
This is why B2 is needed to convert folates into methylfolate. since it activates b6. Methylfolate will lower histamine, and if you have low histamine already. this will lower your copper.
And if you give b2 without b1. you will increase histamines and have crazy intercellular histamines. And lower intracellular histamine since b2 is also in DAO ( since dao needs active b6 which is b2 and zinc)This is why in really bad histamine cases, you give b2 with methylfolate for a short time. along with all other bs and b1 and then you take away methylfolate. Methylfolate is to clear intercellular histamines basically substituting b1, and to speed up B2 availability which increases active b6 to produce more histamine and methylfolate.
We were talking about the markers how to see NADPH activity , but we need to look for the markers to see FAD and NADPH activity.
but overall, IDO TDO pathway is what matters also, some have it activated and some have the problems to activate it. And it is all about iron b2 ( b6) for this pathway.
To make NADPH you need NAD, pentose and phosphorus. to make NAD you need iron and b2.( b6)
But there are 100s of regulations of all this stuff, that is why it is so hard to lift up, since if you dont account for one connected thing, it does not work.
Androgens induce NADPH oxidase. since androgens lower potassium. After looking at @Yura it is understandable why he saw crazy oxidives stress and losing his elastic tissue. May be even heart tissue. SO androgens are not good IMO.This is why we need to look at the balance of B vitamins here. And see which ones we are missing.
Actually in pyroluria they give zinc and b6. Those are lost in the urine. And people are wondering why are those lost in the urine.
Since glutathione is not working. And zinc and b6 will make histamine. And there is no methyl folate without glutathione to get rid of histamine intercellular.
So we have 2 histamines intra and intercelluar. intra is taken care off by DAO which is copper and active b6 and histidine.and intercellular is taken care of by methylfolate. So obviously for the methylation to work, you need to have histamine made) And some blocks in the methylation will be because of lack of histidine also.
B6 can be activated by B2 or zinc. 2 different enzymes. So If you have low methylfolate because of low FAD. then you cant get rid of histamine. And body has to lower zinc and b6 and puts it into the urine.( and this is called pyroluria). since if it does not , then people have anxiety , since their intercellur histamines are too high. These people never really recover on zinc and b6. Since that will never increase their FAD.
SO I would assume it is more of a FAD( NAPDH) deficiency which causes zinc and B6 to be out, in pyroluria.
Hoffer cured schizo with huge doses of niacin. Basically lowering intercellular histamines .( which is what schizo is) dopamine thing is a part of it. the oxidative stress kills cerebellum , it gets smaller and smaller and smaller. So schizo is basically oxidative stress disease
And it kills cerebellum by oxidation and actually there isnt enough NDMA action there which ruins GABA reception. And slowly gaba goes down. since GABA itself ruins KCC2 transporter I would assume.
The role of the cerebellum in schizophrenia: from cognition to molecular pathways

I love that you are here on this forum Helen. Your input is fantastic!
Let's not also forget that NADPH and Kynurenic Acids have a strong interaction.
NADPH tends to downregulate the IDO/Kynurenic acid pathway and vice-versa.
Allowing for "stabilized" NMDAR and Glutamate activity.
On the other hand, moving too far in that direction and suppressing Kynurenic acid TOO MUCH will surely lead to MORE Oxidative Stress.
Deregulated tryptophan-kynurenine pathway is linked to inflammation, oxidative stress, and immune activation pathway in cardiovascular diseases. (PubMed)

...Of other interest the Phosphate Cycle; a key ingredient in TOXICITY is also regulated by similar pathways.

Kynurenic Acid: The Janus-Faced Role of an Immunomodulatory Tryptophan Metabolite and Its Link to Pathological Conditions. [Frontiers in Immunology]

Schizophr Bull. 2017 Jul 1;43(4):764-777. doi: 10.1093/schbul/sbw221.

Kynurenic Acid in Schizophrenia: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis.
Plitman E1,2, Iwata Y1, Caravaggio F1, Nakajima S1,3,4,5, Chung JK1,2, Gerretsen P1,3,4, Kim J1,2, Takeuchi H3,5,6, Chakravarty MM7,8, Remington G2,3,6,9, Graff-Guerrero A1,2,3,4,9.

Author information
Abstract
Kynurenic acid (KYNA) is an endogenous antagonist of N-methyl-D-aspartate and α7 nicotinic acetylcholine receptors that is derived from astrocytes as part of the kynurenine pathway of tryptophan degradation. Evidence suggests that abnormal KYNA levels are involved in the pathophysiology of schizophrenia. However, this has never been assessed through a meta-analysis. A literature search was conducted through Ovid using Embase, Medline, and PsycINFO databases (last search: December 2016) with the search terms: (kynuren* or KYNA) and (schizophreni* or psychosis). English language studies measuring KYNA levels using any method in patients with schizophrenia and healthy controls (HCs) were identified. Standardized mean differences (SMDs) were calculated to determine differences in KYNA levels between groups. Subgroup analyses were separately performed for nonoverlapping participant samples, KYNA measurement techniques, and KYNA sample source. The influences of patients' age, antipsychotic status (%medicated), and sex (%male) on study SMDs were assessed through a meta-regression. Thirteen studies were deemed eligible for inclusion in the meta-analysis. In the main analysis, KYNA levels were elevated in the patient group. Subgroup analyses demonstrated that KYNA levels were increased in nonoverlapping participant samples, and centrally (cerebrospinal fluid and brain tissue) but not peripherally. Patients' age, %medicated, and %male were each positively associated with study SMDs. Overall, KYNA levels are increased in patients with schizophrenia, specifically within the central nervous system. An improved understanding of KYNA in patients with schizophrenia may contribute to the development of novel diagnostic approaches and therapeutic strategies.

KEYWORDS:
kynurenine; neuroinflammation; psychosis; tryptophan

PMID: 28187219 PMCID: PMC5472151 DOI: 10.1093/schbul/sbw221

 

[Slayo]

I am not talking about taking testosterone and progesterone for PFS. or taking any steroids here. I just mentioned about the cycle for normal people if someone ever decides to take do steroids.

DHT and estradiol, just by pass the missing NADPH. And only for people with low DHT and low estradiol. They fix nothing. YOu just give 2 hormones which are missing.

Without NADPH you simply dont make Estradiol or DHT. Look at the chart. both of them are made with NADPH. You have high estrone. and low dht. Since estrone is converted into estradiol by NADPH. And testosterone is created and converted to DHT by NADPH.

This is one case of PFS. Low testosterone normal estradiol, high estrone. low or normal DHT.


In another case, we have high normal testosterone, high normal dht, and probably high estradiol.


So I have no idea which case you are Tubz. You need to do some bloods.


If you took superdrol, and it does not aromatize. It should increase NADPH oxidase. And it does since it lowers LH. How would you have high estrogen.

I have middle range estradiol and estrone, low estriol, high T, high dht in my dutch test

 

[TubZy]

I am not talking about taking testosterone and progesterone for PFS. or taking any steroids here. I just mentioned about the cycle for normal people if someone ever decides to take do steroids.

DHT and estradiol, just by pass the missing NADPH. And only for people with low DHT and low estradiol. They fix nothing. YOu just give 2 hormones which are missing.

Without NADPH you simply dont make Estradiol or DHT. Look at the chart. both of them are made with NADPH. You have high estrone. and low dht. Since estrone is converted into estradiol by NADPH. And testosterone is created and converted to DHT by NADPH.

This is one case of PFS. Low testosterone normal estradiol, high estrone. low or normal DHT.


In another case, we have high normal testosterone, high normal dht, and probably high estradiol.


So I have no idea which case you are Tubz. You need to do some bloods.


If you took superdrol, and it does not aromatize. It should increase NADPH oxidase. And it does since it lowers LH. How would you have high estrogen.

I thought test+prog or test+deca (a progestin) acted as band aids for PFS since deca or progesterone will fill in the slot like going back on fin. It was suggested in this thread to @Willylong98 who is a PFS person.
https://hackstasis.com/threads/got-estrogen-bloodwork-while-on-ru486.651/page-2

I did actually have bloods both pre and post fin and my stuff was normal (high T, normal E etc). I also did have blood test prior to superdrol cycle and same result (high T etc). I didn't have progesterone tested though. So even with normal bloods and then taking superdrol my body responded that way after taking it. I dont know if I actually had high estrogen post cycle superdrol, I was just assuming since really in any circumstance coming off steroids estrogen is usually elevated since T has be supressed and superdrol is pretty suppressive.

 

[Area-1255]

I thought test+prog or test+deca (a progestin) acted as band aids for PFS since deca or progesterone will fill in the slot like going back on fin. It was suggested in this thread to @Willylong98 who is a PFS person.
https://hackstasis.com/threads/got-estrogen-bloodwork-while-on-ru486.651/page-2

I did actually have bloods both pre and post fin and my stuff was normal (high T, normal E etc). I also did have blood test prior to superdrol cycle and same result (high T etc). I didn't have progesterone tested though. So even with normal bloods and then taking superdrol my body responded that way after taking it

Yeah I never agreed and never will agree with taking Progesterone. All you'd be doing is 1.) Diminishing your Gains 2.) Unfavorably altering Androgen balance 3.) Temporarily enhancing neurosteroids, leading to a drop-off.
...but the effects of Progesterone on GABA etc are so mixed it seems counterintuitive to include it.

 

[Helen]

I thought test+prog or test+deca (a progestin) acted as band aids for PFS since deca or progesterone will fill in the slot like going back on fin. It was suggested in this thread to @Willylong98 who is a PFS person.
https://hackstasis.com/threads/got-estrogen-bloodwork-while-on-ru486.651/page-2

I did actually have bloods both pre and post fin and my stuff was normal (high T, normal E etc). I also did have blood test prior to superdrol cycle and same result (high T etc). I didn't have progesterone tested though. So even with normal bloods and then taking superdrol my body responded that way after taking it. I dont know if I actually had high estrogen post cycle superdrol, I was just assuming since really in any circumstance coming off steroids estrogen is usually elevated since T has be supressed and superdrol is pretty suppressive.

They are 2 cases here. We are not discussing any band aids here. I mentioned progesterone and testosterone, since I saw some people crash on steroids again. Check out Rwac profile.

 

[Helen]

Yeah I never agreed and never will agree with taking Progesterone. All you'd be doing is 1.) Diminishing your Gains 2.) Unfavorably altering Androgen balance 3.) Temporarily enhancing neurosteroids, leading to a drop-off.
...but the effects of Progesterone on GABA etc are so mixed it seems counterintuitive to include it.

Problem with the test, it causes hypokalemia. Hypokalemia will turn off AR. And potassium wont save it)) since you need to retain it.

 

[Area-1255]

Problem with the test, it causes hypokalemia. Hypokalemia will turn off AR. And potassium wont save it)) since you need to retain it.

So eat more Potassium? Bodybuilders should be eating Sweet Potatoes (with plenty of Butter) anyway!
@TubZy @Helen

 

[Helen]

So eat more Potassium? Bodybuilders should be eating Sweet Potatoes (with plenty of Butter) anyway!
@TubZy @Helen

Macrominerals are retained by the body using hormones. So if you are missing progesterone you wont retain much potassium.

This is why after you come off steroids. some people get high progesterone. Since they got hypokalemic. and those people go and get drugs against progesterone to lower it. if in reality they just need 10000 of potassium a day for a month)) for the progesterone to come down.

But when you are on the cycle. Potassium wont help you , since you inhibited progesterone production and it is progesterone which retains potassium in the body.

This is why steroid abuse= hypokalemic alkalosis. to get out of it , not that easy.

this is what electrolytes protocol is about .= the REAL PCT for steroids abusers LOL


But if you goTEST with progesterone, you will never have this problem,



but I assume you will still downregulate a lot of systems.

 

[Area-1255]

Macrominerals are retained by the body using hormones. So if you are missing progesterone you wont retain much potassium.

This is why after you come off steroids. some people get high progesterone. Since they got hypokalemic. and those people go and get drugs against progesterone to lower it. if in reality they just need 10000 of potassium a day for a month)) for the progesterone to come down.

But when you are on the cycle. Potassium wont help you , since you inhibited progesterone production and it is progesterone which retains potassium in the body.

This is why steroid abuse= hypokalemic alkalosis. to get out of it , not that easy.

this is what electrolytes protocol is about .= the REAL PCT for steroids abusers LOL


But if you goTEST with progesterone, you will never have this problem,



but I assume you will still downregulate a lot of systems.

Not that I disagree with your theory, but I wonder if the "hypokalemia" is purely in the Brain...you would think if it were elsewhere, 90% of Pro-Bodybuilders would be having Heart Attacks before they hit 40? Low potassium ain't nothin' to mess with.

 

[Yura]

Not that I disagree with your theory, but I wonder if the "hypokalemia" is purely in the Brain...you would think if it were elsewhere, 90% of Pro-Bodybuilders would be having Heart Attacks before they hit 40? Low potassium ain't nothin' to mess with.

looks good for 58 yo who is using steroids for like 35 years..

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[Area-1255]

looks good for 58 yo who is using steroids for like 35 years..

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Yes, and notice he's not an Asshole either, he's got the Adrenaline under control.
There's probably a connection there. After all, Adrenaline, HBP, and the subsequent frontal lobe dysfunction due to LESS Oxygen is actually the cause of "Roid-Rage".
...Even though its mostly a Myth, that because, you can easily get the same "roid-rage" result from too much METH or Epi-Pen abuse.
I've met folks running "Clenbuterol-Only Cycles" who are complete assholes and punch holes in the boxing rooms cushioned walls, almost daily.

 

[tallglass13]

My blood show high Estrone and high range Estradiol. My estrone was 135, my Estradiol is always around 39. Probably from drinking a lot of beer. my test is always around 600-700.
When I use DHT topically, 1 or 2 drops only, I get woman attracted and sniffing me. i'ts crazy. but, since Ive been following @Helen, I haven't used it. But , I want to. I don't want to downregulate my own DHT either. So I guess I will use DHT very sparingly ,but I will take a few milligrams of Progesterone along with it. is that safer?

 

[Yura]

Yes, and notice he's not an Asshole either, he's got the Adrenaline under control.
There's probably a connection there. After all, Adrenaline, HBP, and the subsequent frontal lobe dysfunction due to LESS Oxygen is actually the cause of "Roid-Rage".
...Even though its mostly a Myth, that because, you can easily get the same "roid-rage" result from too much METH or Epi-Pen abuse.
I've met folks running "Clenbuterol-Only Cycles" who are complete assholes and punch holes in the boxing rooms cushioned walls, almost daily.

It looks like most of the top bodybuilders are chill, calm, they sleep a lot etc.. I think it's due to the fact that they are tired a lot. From all that food, muscle mass they need to handle, hard trainings and maybe also drugs like growth hormone etc.. Only before the contest they can be little crazy when they are on low calories, a lot of cardio, stimulants, fat burners, drugs like trenbolone etc.. They can't even sleep more like 5 hours.. I don't think that taking steroids smart way is so unhealthy.. Look at guys from golden era. Majority of them look good for their age and they are all on TRT.. The problem is now when they take much more steroids, but also insulin, GH and most importantly pain killers and recreational drugs.. + they push crazy amounts of food. + also 99% of steroids are from underground labs = dirty, contaminated stuff from china..

 

[Area-1255]

It looks like most of the top bodybuilders are chill, calm, they sleep a lot etc.. I think it's due to the fact that they are tired a lot. From all that food, muscle mass they need to handle, hard trainings and maybe also drugs like growth hormone etc.. Only before the contest they can be little crazy when they are on low calories, a lot of cardio, stimulants, fat burners, drugs like trenbolone etc.. They can't even sleep more like 5 hours.. I don't think that taking steroids smart way is so unhealthy.. Look at guys from golden era. Majority of them look good for their age and they are all on TRT.. The problem is now when they take much more steroids, but also insulin, GH and most importantly pain killers and recreational drugs.. + they push crazy amounts of food. + also 99% of steroids are from underground labs = dirty, contaminated stuff from china..

Yup, Trenbolone also stimulates the CNS - it acts a Potent Androgen; one highly concentrated in the Hypothalamus - thus induces Epinephrine release as much as ridiculous levels of DHT would.

 

[Admiral]

Getting a little bit insecure here with all this new information and research coming out.

ARL is still the way to go to get cured and balanced, right? I think @Helen agrees but that he's just looking for quicker, less invasive ways. Amiright?

 

[Yura]

Getting a little bit insecure here with all this new information and research coming out.

ARL is still the way to go to get cured and balanced, right? I think @Helen agrees but that he's just looking for quicker, less invasive ways. Amiright?

What can be less invasive than taking minerals and eating for your current metabolic rate?

 

[TubZy]

It looks like most of the top bodybuilders are chill, calm, they sleep a lot etc.. I think it's due to the fact that they are tired a lot. From all that food, muscle mass they need to handle, hard trainings and maybe also drugs like growth hormone etc.. Only before the contest they can be little crazy when they are on low calories, a lot of cardio, stimulants, fat burners, drugs like trenbolone etc.. They can't even sleep more like 5 hours.. I don't think that taking steroids smart way is so unhealthy.. Look at guys from golden era. Majority of them look good for their age and they are all on TRT.. The problem is now when they take much more steroids, but also insulin, GH and most importantly pain killers and recreational drugs.. + they push crazy amounts of food. + also 99% of steroids are from underground labs = dirty, contaminated stuff from china..

I don't think all BBers age like crap, mainly powerlifters I would say age the worst and are in crap shape (skin, joints etc.) since they are constantly pounding their joints and don't really care too much about diet. BBers it really depends since they take so much shit and it is hard to pinpoint what is doing what. For example, many BBers take GH with juice, so if the more toxic and harsh drugs that give acne/back acne and make your skin look like crap (by shutting off progesterone) get offset by GH supplementation since GH smooths out and improves skin. So you really never know TBH what these guys are really on.

 

[TubZy]

Getting a little bit insecure here with all this new information and research coming out.

ARL is still the way to go to get cured and balanced, right? I think @Helen agrees but that he's just looking for quicker, less invasive ways. Amiright?

Yeah, we are just talking details about other stuff. ARL/TEI does everything, it just at a much slower pace uunfortunately.

 

[Helen]

I don't think all BBers age like crap, mainly powerlifters I would say age the worst and are in crap shape (skin, joints etc.) since they are constantly pounding their joints and don't really care too much about diet. BBers it really depends since they take so much shit and it is hard to pinpoint what is doing what. For example, many BBers take GH with juice, so if the more toxic and harsh drugs that give acne/back acne and make your skin look like crap (by shutting off progesterone) get offset by GH supplementation since GH smooths out and improves skin. So you really never know TBH what these guys are really on.

I was talkinga about testosterone. Testosterone causes hypokalemia. ages you like you read about.

 

[TubZy]

I was talkinga about testosterone. Testosterone causes hypokalemia. ages you like you read about.

But wouldn't other compounds cause it too since testosterone and progesterone are based on the same enzyme. You take testosterone, anavar, anadrol ,superdrol etc. and LH gets turned off and this shuts down the entire axis so testosterone gets turned off and so would progesterone too - thus causing low potassium, right?