Help me. Post finasteride sindrome and all sintomns

[Helen]

He probably is Joe’s case @Helen and maybe I’m same, maybe I’m different.

This is talking from a hormonal perspective in terms of cases.

I’m talking about symptoms in terms of cases. And when symptoms are extreme beyond sexual, I believe in order to fix an imbalance, body has to be in a more stable state.

I’ve learned this stuff from you gbold lol. You know I’m not making this up. And you know I’ve benefitted from your teachings incredibly and will for rest of my life.

I’m preaching stability for this guy before he goes hormonal routes. But if you think he can get fixed via hormonal routes right now, then go ahead.

But he says he’s fasting first. Probably right idea.

We dont really know which case Joe is LOL He is an incognito as far as blood or tests go LOL

 

[Pedro melo]

We dont really know which case Joe is LOL He is an incognito as far as blood or tests go LOL

I will do hair twst asap but ive cuted my hair( só idiot) maybe that can help... Although here in Portugal they will.not come.up with a protocol for me to intake, thwynjust give me.the results so after that I'll.probable need to find what to ingest

 

[Area-1255]

We are all looking at @joekool also, if what he did sticks for him I will be very glad. But he did cycle quite big dosages of progesterone. So hopefully it did something for him.

You see we are trying to find something that works fast, not many people can devote themselve to 9-10 months protocols

This is why if someone gets cured with anavar in 2 weeks. that is exciting. I hope it is true, since there are so many fake stories around. @BeLikeWater

Anavar has hardly any androgenic properties though??? Or is that the point.

 

[Helen]

Anavar has hardly any androgenic properties though??? Or is that the point.

that is the point for one case. to effect the GR receptor. since anavar is highly anabolic. and very low androgenic

We have one guy cured from taking it for 2 weeks. I still dont know which case it is for. If it cures someone as fast ,then we will just match the other side.
I will talk to you about it also. When we get that response from anavar trial, to match another side so we have fast cures for both cases.

 

[Pedro melo]

that is the point for one case. to effect the GR receptor. since anavar is highly anabolic. and very low androgenic

In cases like mine with normal dht high testo doesn't mean that mine androgen receptors are down regulated?

 

[Helen]

In cases like mine with normal dht high testo doesn't mean that mine androgen receptors are down regulated?

According to Italian studies, @wuf

• From the Italian studies, we know that AR overexpression is taking place to some degree. Although they biopsied penile tissue, it is almost certain the same thing is going on in other parts of our body.
  
  
• At first glance overexpression might sound like a good thing because it means androgenic characteristics will express more than normal, however that is not the case. Expression is like a bell curve, too little is bad, too much is bad, there’s a goldilocks level of expression that needs to be maintained for signaling to take place normally. This was demonstrated in DA Monks paper, where he genetically engineered mice to have overexpressed ARs in their muscular tissue, but instead of the expected result, he found that their tissue broke down. AR overexpression has also been demonstrated to be neurotoxic (kills brain cells) and cytotoxic (kills cells) in literature.
  
  
• While we are born with a set of genes that don’t change, throughout our lives their expression changes due to environmental and other factors. How much a gene expresses is as important as what the gene does, because say (this is just a crude example) you have a gene that’s responsible for controlling dopamine release, and that gene’s expression is turned way up, then your brain has too much dopamine and you have symptoms like mania, psychosis, delusions, etc., but say it’s turned down low, then you have depression, anhedonia, low libido, etc. Needs to be maintained at a certain level. These genes’ expression are regulated by various processes such as methylation, acetylation, phosphorylation etc. When methylation occurs, methyl groups are added to the gene and that makes it express less. When methyl groups are removed from the gene, it expresses more. This thing also happens with acetylation, phosphorylation, and the other epigenetic regulatory mechanisms. What’s important to remember is that most of these processes are temporary, except for methylation. Methylation tends to stick, and once methyl groups are attached, it’s pretty difficult to get rid of them (like a crazy ex).
  
  
• The current theory is that Finasteride has caused certain genes to become methylated, leaving us with an overexpressed AR. We don’t have definitive proof that this is going on in every cell in our body, but we know it’s going on in penile tissue, and based on anecdotal evidence it’s probably going on almost everywhere else depending on the severity of our condition.
  
  
• We also know that we have lower neurosteroids than normal people, something that is seen in depressed individuals. This is most likely due to AR overexpression as well, or possibly the methylation of other genes responsible for neurosteroid synthesis.
  
  
• The auto immunity theory came about from the observation that immunosuppressants improved the condition of some PFS sufferers. There is a post made by a member on another board explaining why, and if you want I can link you to it. TL;DR, some immunosuppressants increases 5AR1 activity, which increases neurosteroid synthesis.

You see we are only guessing that they are 2 cases. may be there are one case with overexpressed receptors. But for some reason people have different metabolism and they react to substances differently. Or there are really 2 cases

we are still guessing a lot of things here. So controlled trial and error is still the best indicator.

 

[Pedro melo]

According to Italian studies, @wuf

• From the Italian studies, we know that AR overexpression is taking place to some degree. Although they biopsied penile tissue, it is almost certain the same thing is going on in other parts of our body.
  
  
• At first glance overexpression might sound like a good thing because it means androgenic characteristics will express more than normal, however that is not the case. Expression is like a bell curve, too little is bad, too much is bad, there’s a goldilocks level of expression that needs to be maintained for signaling to take place normally. This was demonstrated in DA Monks paper, where he genetically engineered mice to have overexpressed ARs in their muscular tissue, but instead of the expected result, he found that their tissue broke down. AR overexpression has also been demonstrated to be neurotoxic (kills brain cells) and cytotoxic (kills cells) in literature.
  
  
• While we are born with a set of genes that don’t change, throughout our lives their expression changes due to environmental and other factors. How much a gene expresses is as important as what the gene does, because say (this is just a crude example) you have a gene that’s responsible for controlling dopamine release, and that gene’s expression is turned way up, then your brain has too much dopamine and you have symptoms like mania, psychosis, delusions, etc., but say it’s turned down low, then you have depression, anhedonia, low libido, etc. Needs to be maintained at a certain level. These genes’ expression are regulated by various processes such as methylation, acetylation, phosphorylation etc. When methylation occurs, methyl groups are added to the gene and that makes it express less. When methyl groups are removed from the gene, it expresses more. This thing also happens with acetylation, phosphorylation, and the other epigenetic regulatory mechanisms. What’s important to remember is that most of these processes are temporary, except for methylation. Methylation tends to stick, and once methyl groups are attached, it’s pretty difficult to get rid of them (like a crazy ex).
  
  
• The current theory is that Finasteride has caused certain genes to become methylated, leaving us with an overexpressed AR. We don’t have definitive proof that this is going on in every cell in our body, but we know it’s going on in penile tissue, and based on anecdotal evidence it’s probably going on almost everywhere else depending on the severity of our condition.
  
  
• We also know that we have lower neurosteroids than normal people, something that is seen in depressed individuals. This is most likely due to AR overexpression as well, or possibly the methylation of other genes responsible for neurosteroid synthesis.
  
  
• The auto immunity theory came about from the observation that immunosuppressants improved the condition of some PFS sufferers. There is a post made by a member on another board explaining why, and if you want I can link you to it. TL;DR, some immunosuppressants increases 5AR1 activity, which increases neurosteroid synthesis.

You see we are only guessing that they are 2 cases. may be there are one case with overexpressed receptors. But for some reason people have different metabolism and they react to substances differently. Or there are really 2 cases

we are still guessing a lot of things here. So controlled trial and error is still the best indicator.

Understand no... Funny Coz you mentioned auto imunity... Im facing some.autoimune sintomns I went to do a brain Magnetic resonance but aperently nothing special showed up. I also want to go to a rheumatologist, my skin is becoming red and pain in my bones ( doctor said can be lupus) hope this shit of fin didn't drag me to this autoimune deasease.

 

[Aflac94]

According to Italian studies, @wuf

• From the Italian studies, we know that AR overexpression is taking place to some degree. Although they biopsied penile tissue, it is almost certain the same thing is going on in other parts of our body.
  
  
• At first glance overexpression might sound like a good thing because it means androgenic characteristics will express more than normal, however that is not the case. Expression is like a bell curve, too little is bad, too much is bad, there’s a goldilocks level of expression that needs to be maintained for signaling to take place normally. This was demonstrated in DA Monks paper, where he genetically engineered mice to have overexpressed ARs in their muscular tissue, but instead of the expected result, he found that their tissue broke down. AR overexpression has also been demonstrated to be neurotoxic (kills brain cells) and cytotoxic (kills cells) in literature.
  
  
• While we are born with a set of genes that don’t change, throughout our lives their expression changes due to environmental and other factors. How much a gene expresses is as important as what the gene does, because say (this is just a crude example) you have a gene that’s responsible for controlling dopamine release, and that gene’s expression is turned way up, then your brain has too much dopamine and you have symptoms like mania, psychosis, delusions, etc., but say it’s turned down low, then you have depression, anhedonia, low libido, etc. Needs to be maintained at a certain level. These genes’ expression are regulated by various processes such as methylation, acetylation, phosphorylation etc. When methylation occurs, methyl groups are added to the gene and that makes it express less. When methyl groups are removed from the gene, it expresses more. This thing also happens with acetylation, phosphorylation, and the other epigenetic regulatory mechanisms. What’s important to remember is that most of these processes are temporary, except for methylation. Methylation tends to stick, and once methyl groups are attached, it’s pretty difficult to get rid of them (like a crazy ex).
  
  
• The current theory is that Finasteride has caused certain genes to become methylated, leaving us with an overexpressed AR. We don’t have definitive proof that this is going on in every cell in our body, but we know it’s going on in penile tissue, and based on anecdotal evidence it’s probably going on almost everywhere else depending on the severity of our condition.
  
  
• We also know that we have lower neurosteroids than normal people, something that is seen in depressed individuals. This is most likely due to AR overexpression as well, or possibly the methylation of other genes responsible for neurosteroid synthesis.
  
  
• The auto immunity theory came about from the observation that immunosuppressants improved the condition of some PFS sufferers. There is a post made by a member on another board explaining why, and if you want I can link you to it. TL;DR, some immunosuppressants increases 5AR1 activity, which increases neurosteroid synthesis.

You see we are only guessing that they are 2 cases. may be there are one case with overexpressed receptors. But for some reason people have different metabolism and they react to substances differently. Or there are really 2 cases

we are still guessing a lot of things here. So controlled trial and error is still the best indicator.

I like the explanation and transparency here

 

[joekool]

we are still guessing a lot of things here. So controlled trial and error is still the best indicator.

true dat

@bruschi11 got nothing but love for ya... we're all trying to help, I ensure it...

@Helen miss me yet ?

 

[Helen]

true dat

@bruschi11 got nothing but love for ya... we're all trying to help, I ensure it...

@Helen miss me yet ?

it is time for you to help me now dude .LOL fucking brainfog from this PFS. I cant believe I took that stupid fin while chelating. this PFS is definetely connected with glutathione, since it did not hit me this bad the other 2 times, when I was not chelating.

So fin does hit weak and low glutathione people it seems, may be they cant remethylate shit after the crash, and thus some receptors or their ratios get fucked up and stay fucked up.

.

 

[joekool]

I'll do anything I can. I still think the brain fog lifted moreso for me using iodine and tyrosine. You ever do an iodine patch? To see if you're deficient

 

[Helen]

I'll do anything I can. I still think the brain fog lifted moreso for me using iodine and tyrosine. You ever do an iodine patch? To see if you're deficient

I took iodine about 12mg a day the other month. I always take it while chelating. Tyrosine and l dopa make me INSANE. I have high dopamine and very low prolactin Joe

Tested my hormones yesterday, fin typically effects me the same. Low prolactin, low dht , low estro.

It was funny when I took l dopa. or tyrosine last week, they make me lose hair for one. And also make me just stand there in the middle of room and stare at the ceiling , it is very funny.

You were high prolactin , so you did good on tyrosine which increased your dopamine. Fast oxidizers spend too much tyrosine producing thyroid hormones. this is why they usually have high reverse t3/


You see this Fast Oxidizer Diet – Jeremy E. Kaslow, M.D.

Fast oxidizer usually have high prolactin and they do good on stuff like choline inositol ( slows down the oxidation rate)
iodine, carnitine. Etc

I am a slow oxidizer , I die on choline, ( severe depression) , I get insane brain fog on iodine, like subworld etc

you see that most things that you take , could be figured out right from the hairtest

I dont have time to balance this week, I am trying 2 approaches now, to get out of this , And thus feeling like total shit right now. Since i am purposely hurting myself to downregulate the receptors. this crash form fin caused me to have POIS again. And it sucked. Last week I cycled stuff and got rid of it. But now I am trying to get rid of PFS completely ,since I still had some issues.

|But I am convinced that to get rid of PFS , people need to suffer thru some treatment.

like take 4 macro minerals. magnesium sodium, calcium potassium. See from which of 4 you feel really bad. And take it. I am 100% sure, this will increase people baselines dramatically.


Like in case of @Troy, he felt terrible on potassium. took it forced it and this snapped him back dramatically within weeks.

 

[heygate]

@Helen what did you cycle for the Pois? Interested

 

[Pedro melo]

I took iodine about 12mg a day the other month. I always take it while chelating. Tyrosine and l dopa make me INSANE. I have high dopamine and very low prolactin Joe

Tested my hormones yesterday, fin typically effects me the same. Low prolactin, low dht , low estro.

It was funny when I took l dopa. or tyrosine last week, they make me lose hair for one. And also make me just stand there in the middle of room and stare at the ceiling , it is very funny.

You were high prolactin , so you did good on tyrosine which increased your dopamine. Fast oxidizers spend too much tyrosine producing thyroid hormones. this is why they usually have high reverse t3/


You see this Fast Oxidizer Diet – Jeremy E. Kaslow, M.D.

Fast oxidizer usually have high prolactin and they do good on stuff like choline inositol ( slows down the oxidation rate)
iodine, carnitine. Etc

I am a slow oxidizer , I die on choline, ( severe depression) , I get insane brain fog on iodine, like subworld etc

you see that most things that you take , could be figured out right from the hairtest

I dont have time to balance this week, I am trying 2 approaches now, to get out of this , And thus feeling like total shit right now. Since i am purposely hurting myself to downregulate the receptors. this crash form fin caused me to have POIS again. And it sucked. Last week I cycled stuff and got rid of it. But now I am trying to get rid of PFS completely ,since I still had some issues.

|But I am convinced that to get rid of PFS , people need to suffer thru some treatment.

like take 4 macro minerals. magnesium sodium, calcium potassium. See from which of 4 you feel really bad. And take it. I am 100% sure, this will increase people baselines dramatically.


Like in case of @Troy, he felt terrible on potassium. took it forced it and this snapped him back dramatically within weeks.

Helen, I was talking to bruschi about fasting... Did you ever fast? I'm feeling safer on tamoxifen for my boobs do your hibk I can stay on it while fasting? Or drop and restart after?

 

[Helen]

Helen, I was talking to bruschi about fasting... Did you ever fast? I'm feeling safer on tamoxifen for my boobs do your hibk I can stay on it while fasting? Or drop and restart after?

I fasted 65 days, 40 days, 30 days many times.. When I first got hit with lymphoma PFS and melanoma. my first fast was for 30 days on water only.

Also I did liver flushes. this was amazing. I fasted and swam in the sea , daily.

I would not stay on drugs while fasting,

 

[Pedro melo]

I fasted 65 days, 40 days, 30 days many times.. When I first got hit with lymphoma PFS and melanoma. my first fast was for 30 days on water only.

Also I did liver flushes. this was amazing. I fasted and swam in the sea , daily.

I would not stay on drugs while fasting,

Amazing bro... Sorry to ear that I did not know. Thanks for advice I'll defenitly do that!
Liver flushes can be with juice and olive oil right? But probably better after the fasting?

 

[IHateFin]

According to Italian studies, @wuf

• From the Italian studies, we know that AR overexpression is taking place to some degree. Although they biopsied penile tissue, it is almost certain the same thing is going on in other parts of our body.
  
  
• At first glance overexpression might sound like a good thing because it means androgenic characteristics will express more than normal, however that is not the case. Expression is like a bell curve, too little is bad, too much is bad, there’s a goldilocks level of expression that needs to be maintained for signaling to take place normally. This was demonstrated in DA Monks paper, where he genetically engineered mice to have overexpressed ARs in their muscular tissue, but instead of the expected result, he found that their tissue broke down. AR overexpression has also been demonstrated to be neurotoxic (kills brain cells) and cytotoxic (kills cells) in literature.
  
  
• While we are born with a set of genes that don’t change, throughout our lives their expression changes due to environmental and other factors. How much a gene expresses is as important as what the gene does, because say (this is just a crude example) you have a gene that’s responsible for controlling dopamine release, and that gene’s expression is turned way up, then your brain has too much dopamine and you have symptoms like mania, psychosis, delusions, etc., but say it’s turned down low, then you have depression, anhedonia, low libido, etc. Needs to be maintained at a certain level. These genes’ expression are regulated by various processes such as methylation, acetylation, phosphorylation etc. When methylation occurs, methyl groups are added to the gene and that makes it express less. When methyl groups are removed from the gene, it expresses more. This thing also happens with acetylation, phosphorylation, and the other epigenetic regulatory mechanisms. What’s important to remember is that most of these processes are temporary, except for methylation. Methylation tends to stick, and once methyl groups are attached, it’s pretty difficult to get rid of them (like a crazy ex).
  
  
• The current theory is that Finasteride has caused certain genes to become methylated, leaving us with an overexpressed AR. We don’t have definitive proof that this is going on in every cell in our body, but we know it’s going on in penile tissue, and based on anecdotal evidence it’s probably going on almost everywhere else depending on the severity of our condition.
  
  
• We also know that we have lower neurosteroids than normal people, something that is seen in depressed individuals. This is most likely due to AR overexpression as well, or possibly the methylation of other genes responsible for neurosteroid synthesis.
  
  
• The auto immunity theory came about from the observation that immunosuppressants improved the condition of some PFS sufferers. There is a post made by a member on another board explaining why, and if you want I can link you to it. TL;DR, some immunosuppressants increases 5AR1 activity, which increases neurosteroid synthesis.

You see we are only guessing that they are 2 cases. may be there are one case with overexpressed receptors. But for some reason people have different metabolism and they react to substances differently. Or there are really 2 cases

we are still guessing a lot of things here. So controlled trial and error is still the best indicator.

im getting the feeling more and more that I am over expressed AR receptors... lowering dht helps me and I think I have down regulated my receptros in my muscle enough to where they are more normal but still over expressed to an extend cuz I have a lot of muscle mass that's sticking with through this and my strength is greater now than ever before fin... this sickness is weird af...

 

[Niles]

I took iodine about 12mg a day the other month. I always take it while chelating. Tyrosine and l dopa make me INSANE. I have high dopamine and very low prolactin Joe

Tested my hormones yesterday, fin typically effects me the same. Low prolactin, low dht , low estro.

It was funny when I took l dopa. or tyrosine last week, they make me lose hair for one. And also make me just stand there in the middle of room and stare at the ceiling , it is very funny.

You were high prolactin , so you did good on tyrosine which increased your dopamine. Fast oxidizers spend too much tyrosine producing thyroid hormones. this is why they usually have high reverse t3/


You see this Fast Oxidizer Diet – Jeremy E. Kaslow, M.D.

Fast oxidizer usually have high prolactin and they do good on stuff like choline inositol ( slows down the oxidation rate)
iodine, carnitine. Etc

I am a slow oxidizer , I die on choline, ( severe depression) , I get insane brain fog on iodine, like subworld etc

you see that most things that you take , could be figured out right from the hairtest

I dont have time to balance this week, I am trying 2 approaches now, to get out of this , And thus feeling like total shit right now. Since i am purposely hurting myself to downregulate the receptors. this crash form fin caused me to have POIS again. And it sucked. Last week I cycled stuff and got rid of it. But now I am trying to get rid of PFS completely ,since I still had some issues.

|But I am convinced that to get rid of PFS , people need to suffer thru some treatment.

like take 4 macro minerals. magnesium sodium, calcium potassium. See from which of 4 you feel really bad. And take it. I am 100% sure, this will increase people baselines dramatically.


Like in case of @Troy, he felt terrible on potassium. took it forced it and this snapped him back dramatically within weeks.

You loaded on potassium soon after your crash, do you think this was the macro that helped increase your baseline? I'm curious because you've said that potassium upregulates AR, but here you say that in your case you need to downregulate, so what role do you think potassium played in your case?

I feel much better on 1-2g of potassium every day, but now I'm concerned because you say something that helps in the long run should make you feel worse initially.

 

[RebelWithACause]

For me when I take potassium + magnesium before bed I feel kinda crappy. But next day I feel great.

 

[Pedro melo]

You loaded on potassium soon after your crash, do you think this was the macro that helped increase your baseline? I'm curious because you've said that potassium upregulates AR, but here you say that in your case you need to downregulate, so what role do you think potassium played in your case?

I feel much better on 1-2g of potassium every day, but now I'm concerned because you say something that helps in the long run should make you feel worse initially.

Also confused now... So if we feel better on zinc/ creatine or the minerals you said, means we are in the wrong way?