So, watching my pattern over the last month. Libido will come raging back a week to 12 days after my wife and I have sex. When it is back, it is like being pre PFS. Problem is I am in such a rush to have sex to keep my lady happy. The time in between feels like a week long refractory period. Could it all be prolactin? If I took something to reduce the prolactin, could it speed up that recovery time? Or am I thinking about this all wrong?
Could this all be Prolactin related??
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No, for sure all the sides are not prolactin. But just from a stand point at where I’m at currently. Brain fog gone, digestion great. Everything for the most part has gone back to normal. The sexual sides are last of them. Every week when the libido ramps back up, I feel “normal again”. Then, after sex, it’s another week of no libido, no motivation etc. then it all comes back again. I just wonder if I took something to block or decrease the prolactin, would it knock that out. It literally seems like a week long refractory period.
how did you get digestion back?
@op, i thought about what you said. it is true, my prolactin is always elevated, i can never get it down myself, so you could be right. orgasm never helps me, ever, it always makes the situation worse. finasteride definetely caused it though. i think it might have to do with the metabolism slowing down, then maybe magnesium can't stay in the cell, so its making estrogen go up. digestion makes it really difficult.
MNK99
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I can speculate why... but for sure, in general pfs no pfs, pre... very young, older... 20's teens, beyond, etc... MUCH of motivation in a man's life is related to sex.
Not sure if this is helpful, just saying..... That's why I nofap (one of many reasons). Even abstainence at times, like PSSd at times... sounds lame, but seriously. Can't be done in a long term relnship usually. Now not so much, but**** even then, getting laid, feel LESS motivated a bit. But also at times more motivated, I don't know.
Not sure if this is helpful, just saying..... That's why I nofap (one of many reasons). Even abstainence at times, like PSSd at times... sounds lame, but seriously. Can't be done in a long term relnship usually. Now not so much, but**** even then, getting laid, feel LESS motivated a bit. But also at times more motivated, I don't know.
For the digestion, I can’t really pinpoint one thing. It’s just been a combo of the regimen I’ve been doing now for the last 4 months. Coffee enemas, lover flushed and ARL. I know it’s taboo to say, a lot of guys didn’t have a good experience with it, but H2 water really improved my bowel movements. Like noticeably so
@MNK99 i hear you buddy. It’s a mixed bag. I just wish I could get back to where I was pre crash. My wife and I were literally having the best sex of our lives. This is a hell of a sickness when you are stuck counting the days and seconds until you can hopefully please her again, do your part, in hopes that she doesn’t throw the towel in and find someone else. Sucks being broken, and I have a saint of a woman, but even saints have an eventual breaking point.....
MNK99
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Ya dude I was looking my best ever, smartest ever, about to get 140k jobs, get into prof. school... finally get rid of the "what do you?" aspect of life... fuck...
but I've gotten back to my personality and all that stuff... got with some girls, got some money, and will finalize appns, but need to move again.
IT just sucks... bc I left home sick --- mania and pssd (and alcohol and on the run and blackouts and financial ruin) at like 21-22... and then returned... destroyed again (by another insane med). ALSO* Finally got a surgery I wanted (after losing 80-120lb depending how much you count recomposition as true weight loss), and FINALLY treated bipolar II... first time ever... it was fucked. Was finally living solo 3-4yrs too.
Maybe that isn't "why", but I feel like it happened to me (PFS), because I was trying to treat ADHD and BPII... either accept both, zero treatment... or treat minimally...
Hair loss... was result of treating both but fine for a few yrs, minus Lamictal last year. --> and... Yeah, I knew bipolar drugs are fucking harsh... BUT*** I was wrong in that, that would end me, it was a hair drug... which is retarded... considering all that I've lived thru. It barely makes any sense at all ... it's nonsensical.
I wrote against FIN in 2014... told my brother (a surgeon, who has done FUE's etc), no fin ever in early 20's... ---> But one simple mistake changed things.
NOT FOREVER, THO.
MNK's back to stay... mostly look younger again ... and hair's still decent, and more than all that... mental health > all for me, and also physical health (but mental more than phys).
-STILL kind of hate life tho... but did before fin too. working on it.
It's hard to explain what I mean. Kind of love/hate myself at times... and love only, but then hate only... same with others. I don't know.
BUT a lot worse depression last year till Jan this yr for sure. Even till March or April maybe JUne.
But now no stimulants... no coffee... no choline... no lithium orotate outside of tiny doses, so I can run TEI.
It seems almost insane to believe that will balance PFS -remaining symptoms
*** AND [dual diagnosis]***... I can't believe that, but I'll try to do it anyways. Like lots in life.
Never believed in friendship and stuff after 21 -22 ... but, made friends, so... just bc I don't believe in something, doesn't mean it doesn't work, esp. with the effort put in.
If that makes sense.
One thing's clear, MOST meds are super dangerous for me... and I am better off being my own supplier, pharmacist, doctor often ... but not always.
It's hard to draw those lines. But being a "good psyche patient" ---> Damnation. It's better for me, to "see them, when I see them."
Lamotrigine requires careful titration bc of life threatening side effects and various syndromes like SJS, TENS, and Erythema Multiforme .
Mostly only treated BPII, because treating ADHD alone is kind of bad (and highly recommended against by many doctors, but luckily no one can tell with me... esp when hiding things). I treated it because I thought it would help stability - i.e. career, money, relationships.
but I've gotten back to my personality and all that stuff... got with some girls, got some money, and will finalize appns, but need to move again.
IT just sucks... bc I left home sick --- mania and pssd (and alcohol and on the run and blackouts and financial ruin) at like 21-22... and then returned... destroyed again (by another insane med). ALSO* Finally got a surgery I wanted (after losing 80-120lb depending how much you count recomposition as true weight loss), and FINALLY treated bipolar II... first time ever... it was fucked. Was finally living solo 3-4yrs too.
Maybe that isn't "why", but I feel like it happened to me (PFS), because I was trying to treat ADHD and BPII... either accept both, zero treatment... or treat minimally...
Hair loss... was result of treating both but fine for a few yrs, minus Lamictal last year. --> and... Yeah, I knew bipolar drugs are fucking harsh... BUT*** I was wrong in that, that would end me, it was a hair drug... which is retarded... considering all that I've lived thru. It barely makes any sense at all ... it's nonsensical.
I wrote against FIN in 2014... told my brother (a surgeon, who has done FUE's etc), no fin ever in early 20's... ---> But one simple mistake changed things.
NOT FOREVER, THO.
MNK's back to stay... mostly look younger again ... and hair's still decent, and more than all that... mental health > all for me, and also physical health (but mental more than phys).
-STILL kind of hate life tho... but did before fin too. working on it.
It's hard to explain what I mean. Kind of love/hate myself at times... and love only, but then hate only... same with others. I don't know.
BUT a lot worse depression last year till Jan this yr for sure. Even till March or April maybe JUne.
But now no stimulants... no coffee... no choline... no lithium orotate outside of tiny doses, so I can run TEI.
It seems almost insane to believe that will balance PFS -remaining symptoms
*** AND [dual diagnosis]***... I can't believe that, but I'll try to do it anyways. Like lots in life.
Never believed in friendship and stuff after 21 -22 ... but, made friends, so... just bc I don't believe in something, doesn't mean it doesn't work, esp. with the effort put in.
If that makes sense.
One thing's clear, MOST meds are super dangerous for me... and I am better off being my own supplier, pharmacist, doctor often ... but not always.
It's hard to draw those lines. But being a "good psyche patient" ---> Damnation. It's better for me, to "see them, when I see them."
Lamotrigine requires careful titration bc of life threatening side effects and various syndromes like SJS, TENS, and Erythema Multiforme .
Mostly only treated BPII, because treating ADHD alone is kind of bad (and highly recommended against by many doctors, but luckily no one can tell with me... esp when hiding things). I treated it because I thought it would help stability - i.e. career, money, relationships.
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I've been focused soley on androgen receptors which I believe is the source of PFS. I've researched and found some things to increase them.
L Carnitine L Tartrate at 2g a day
No orgasms help build them back up, which is why ppl claim nofap helps. Fasting does this too, upregulate the receptors I mean.
Mucuna Pruriens supposedly lowers prolactin if you want to try natural. One of the B's too but B6 has a negative effect on our penile sensitivity so, if it's that one, I'd avoid it
Pramipexole is a dopamine agonist that is pharma strength... That's one way to prove if it's prolactin.
If it's prolactin, going two to 3 weeks between sex despite the urge can help it, if you had a lower refractory period as you described. Say only a couple days...
Let us know what you experiment with
L Carnitine L Tartrate at 2g a day
No orgasms help build them back up, which is why ppl claim nofap helps. Fasting does this too, upregulate the receptors I mean.
Mucuna Pruriens supposedly lowers prolactin if you want to try natural. One of the B's too but B6 has a negative effect on our penile sensitivity so, if it's that one, I'd avoid it
Pramipexole is a dopamine agonist that is pharma strength... That's one way to prove if it's prolactin.
If it's prolactin, going two to 3 weeks between sex despite the urge can help it, if you had a lower refractory period as you described. Say only a couple days...
Let us know what you experiment with
I guess one of the ways to test if it’s prolactin or not would be fap vs sex, right? The prolactin release after sex is much higher than after fapping, so technically the rebound after should be much faster than sex. Afraid to mess with the prolactin from a drug stand point unless that sets me back further somehow in all the other gains.
MNK99
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I don't know... SEEMS that for sure fapping is way worse for a person than sex is. Which I'm sure you know...
but then it seems like prolactin isn't the only issue, re: a person's refractory period. I'm not suggesting anything really, just saying...
Like I do nofap to help rewire the dopaminergic system at large (pleasure and instantaneous gratification... various addictions or addictive tendencies, bring up mood, focus (bring down ADHD), etc).
Honestly, seems to make near no difference to some males (friends, also online people... also none of which have PFS tho). One friend comes to mind, who claims no difference fapping or not, but he did have 2-3 testicular surgeries (mostly varicocele related).... he is a sex addict tho... AND* one way or another it took it's toll on him (he more or less doesn't even want to return to Canada, but that's probably for complicated reasons, outside of sex etc).
@hairsuit, isn't regular sex way way better than fapping and sex?... nofap and then sex --> sublime at times.
I will say I did have sex and then relapse nofap... lots of 20's (whenever I really really started to try and lose that + internet addiction).
but then it seems like prolactin isn't the only issue, re: a person's refractory period. I'm not suggesting anything really, just saying...
Like I do nofap to help rewire the dopaminergic system at large (pleasure and instantaneous gratification... various addictions or addictive tendencies, bring up mood, focus (bring down ADHD), etc).
Honestly, seems to make near no difference to some males (friends, also online people... also none of which have PFS tho). One friend comes to mind, who claims no difference fapping or not, but he did have 2-3 testicular surgeries (mostly varicocele related).... he is a sex addict tho... AND* one way or another it took it's toll on him (he more or less doesn't even want to return to Canada, but that's probably for complicated reasons, outside of sex etc).
@hairsuit, isn't regular sex way way better than fapping and sex?... nofap and then sex --> sublime at times.
I will say I did have sex and then relapse nofap... lots of 20's (whenever I really really started to try and lose that + internet addiction).
MNK99
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They're quite different than me... and most people, but one of my best friends, got married. DID nofap.. told the girl, she realized immediately he was a PMO addict...
and they worked it out... He abstained over a year (incl. sex), and they got 2 kids now...
but they're really into Buddhism etc, or were... asian sexual healing or whatever. He's lived here (Canada) most his life (but also Russia, Tajikstan also)... she has always mostly lived in Korea.
But yeah, that's not usual. They are 3 yrs older than me or so... maybe he was 28-29ish and i was 26 when he got married... something like that.
and they worked it out... He abstained over a year (incl. sex), and they got 2 kids now...
but they're really into Buddhism etc, or were... asian sexual healing or whatever. He's lived here (Canada) most his life (but also Russia, Tajikstan also)... she has always mostly lived in Korea.
But yeah, that's not usual. They are 3 yrs older than me or so... maybe he was 28-29ish and i was 26 when he got married... something like that.
@MNK99 i see what you’re saying. Lol. To be clear...... I am not saying this is my refractory period. Certainly is not my normal refractory period pre crash. All I’m saying is the it almost FEELS like one that lasts forever. Then a week later comes back to normal. As @joekool says, it may very well be the receptors and I’m completely misreading it. It was just an observation I was having. Try as I might, I cannot understand this thing.
Hahaha. For sure bud. It is very very real. You find the right woman, and hold on for dear life. They make your life better, easier. She is my road dawg, my best friend, and I can say that after 15 years of marriage. May not be the norm, but it is absolutely possible!
MNK99
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Alfred Lord Tennyson: 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all.
I guess... still sucks tho. After some point there has to be Diminishing Returns to Scale. Used to fall in love like every 2months... was a dumbass. But yeah it does feel amazing at times.
Lol, but yes... wow.. good for you man.
I guess... still sucks tho. After some point there has to be Diminishing Returns to Scale. Used to fall in love like every 2months... was a dumbass. But yeah it does feel amazing at times.
Lol, but yes... wow.. good for you man.
hey brother, what was something that helped u with digestion when u were bad the most? ive had to be out of work for 2 weeks now, my digestion is completely wrecked after i crashed recently, cant digest anything, just so full of food and water retention is off the charts. i'm just going to be switching to vegetables pretty soon here.
I’m sure you’ve tried it, but have you done enzymes and betaine HCL? I still take enzymes with every meal. The Betaine I used for over a month, and then didn’t need it anymore. I don’t think my digestion was as bad off as yours, from the sound of it, but all those could work.
Going to veg for a bit to give your system a break might not be terrible. Work in more protein shakes etc
Going to veg for a bit to give your system a break might not be terrible. Work in more protein shakes etc
when i take HCL, i get this weird different aches in my bones in my body, i dont know what it is, does anything like that happen to u? maybe it is giving me a bad reaction, i'm not sure. i do have digestive enzymes, but i dont really notice anything from it. i can take them again though
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Carnitine lowers thyroid. when thyroid hormones are blocked. This asks for more progesterone. So conversion of progesterone to things stops. This lowers 5AR. so you get less DHT. And methylation increases to express more AR receptors. That is how carnitine increases methylation .
You neeed to understand that all substances do 2 things, if they upregulate methylation to express more of the receptor they kill DHT.
This is why carnitine is used for a fast oxidizer. carnitine carries fatty acids for oxidation. This increases methylation. and slows down the thyroid. which kills 5AR
Methylation expresses the receptors and keeps them expressed. This is why folinc acid gets rid of PFS for tallglass completely.
But people are already overmethylating. meaning overexpressing the receptor. This is what was found in italian study. SO PFS is not about insensitive receptor.
Testosterone downregulates methylation so it stops AR receptor overexpression.
In PFS people have low 5AR. that causes low testosterone to DHT conversion, and this causes methylation to go up huge and express extra receptors for the AR.
This is why increasing methylation even further helps PFS. You go on methylation supps, you express even more AR receptors and you start converting DHT into 3 adiol.
In Italian study they studied many people with PFS. and found that the expression of AR was high in all cases. You need to understand there is no magical receptor of the AR. the receptors are constantly expressed , it is an ongoing process. This is done with methylation. So if you are not methylating you are not expressing the AR, if you are overmethylating you are overexpressing the AR.
Since they found that expression of AR was high in all cases in PFS. Then we have 2 cases.
In one case expression of AR is a stilt, meaning there is not enough DHT since 5AR is not working.
In another case, overexpression of AR is the whole problem. and this causes 5AR to stop and high progesterone. which blocks aldo and cortisol reception.
When I took finasteride. I tested my blood. FIN totally suppressed my own progesterone. since fin is a progestin. but progestin does not convert into cortisol or allopregnenolone. and since progestin blocks your own progesterone. it stop 5AR this way.
So when you are on progestin. you get zero 5AR, and you have zero access to cortisol. And the body has to upregulate AR and GR which always go together up and down, since it is methylation,
When you quit fin, progesterone goes up, but progestin is still in blood for 2 weeks. This causes high 5ar , and still high methylation. so expression of AR. you feel androgenic.
But when progestin leave your body in 2 weeks. now you have to run on your own progesterone. But the receptor is downregulated big time, so progesterone does not convert into allopregnenolone, and stays high . and 5AR is closed down.
This forces teh body to upregulate methylation. It takes your copper and b vitamins and starts methylating like crazy. This is why if you test your urine , you will see zero copper there and high zinc.
Since the body is overmethylating , this spends all your b vitamins especically b1 and b2. This is why all pFS people have low reduced glutathione.
Low reduced glutathione decreases thyroid and increases reverse t3. and metabolism is lowered.
This is what deca dick is. Deca is DHT with a progestin. Fin= only progestin.
this is why they use testosterone with DECA, test does not allow 5AR to downregulate much.
This is why using test for deca dick downregulates the AR expression, Since it increases 5AR. Test pushes 5AR. This kills progesterone , this is why people feel lethargic on test, on any test 500, or 100. both lethargic, since test pushes 5AR, so increases DHT, and decreases Progesterone, but progestreone is already insensitive remember.
This is how test upregulates progesterone if you keep at it. this is why I suggested pinepollen and test from the beginning as a way to upregulate progesterone.
I think ella or ru can do this faster. but no one cycled it often or longer.
The reason some people have normal test and normal DHT is that test does not convert much into dht and the body downregulates 3 alpha hsd. This is why all pfs people have low 3 adiol.
If the problem laid in insensitive AR , then taking DHT would make people better. Same as if there is insensitive GR, taking dexamethasone makes people better,
But in case of PFS it does not. Why? since taking DHT will decrease 5AR. and in one case 5AR is already not working.
Bottom line, in both cases AR is overexpressed in PFS IMO. and it is proven in the offical study. SO it is silly to talk differently.
AR expression is not static. It is methylation. So stops and goes immediately. it does not stay . It can go from overexpression to under expression in a heart beat.
I think in one case AR is overexpressed and that is a problems , I think extra copper causes methylation to keep going. This is why some people cycle androsterone. which converts to DHT and this downregulates methylation so downregulates the expression of AR.
and in some cases overexpressed AR is the stilt , it is the outcome of very low 5AR. And in this case expression of the AR even higher makes you feel better. but it is not a good way to fix it.
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B vitamins are low you say, why would someone not just be able to take B vitamins? i took B vitamins, but over time, I noticed I "felt" better, but i appeared to be getting an increase in estrogen and I wasn't sure why or how that was possible, i thought i was just lacking in something else like maybe potassium at the time of the B vitamin use