Yura log

[Yura]

Well it is about ceruloplasmin. We all have plenty of copper in normal diet. You eat meat, grains, veggies, some fruit and you get 1-2mg easily even on low copper foods. I was loading on copper for a decade now getting nowhere. I feel the best on diet like that with copper around 2mg from low copper foods. If I eat more copper from foods like nuts, seeds, pseudograins, legumes etc. I feel that racing mind anxiety brain.. But vise versa I never tried high dose zinc for longer. Anyways I will try that histidine low dose with RDA for all nutrients and wait for hair test.. If my blood retinol will be low I will try some liver.. I don't think it is a good idea to keep vit A around like 15% or RDA for a decade lol.. or maybe is? Who knows LOL

 

[RebelWithACause]

I wouldn't eat liver and I agree you get enough copper from even a lower copper diet often. Unless you are extremely active and you use a lot of adrenaline.

 

[Yura]

but the thing is with adrenaline. Copper is not lost by creating adrenaline.. This is another Gbolduev/Helen myth. Yes it dumps copper, but if you bile flow is impaired there is no copper elimination happening.. I was talking with chatGPT about this. That when copper is used to make stuff if it is lost somehow during the process. It is not. It just helps make that stuff that enzyme or whatever. Once that enzyme breaks down here you have copper again. It is not like zinc constantly lost with fluids etc.. I think we have very low demands for copper and that 0,9mg per day is spot on. Especially when you consider copper is in all fods basically and absorption is 50-60%... Omg I want to do liver biopsy my liver has to look like it is made from copper lol..

 

[RebelWithACause]

but the thing is with adrenaline. Copper is not lost by creating adrenaline.. This is another Gbolduev/Helen myth. Yes it dumps copper, but if you bile flow is impaired there is no copper elimination happening.. I was talking with chatGPT about this. That when copper is used to make stuff if it is lost somehow during the process. It is no. It just helps make that stuff that enzyme or whatever. Once that enzyme breaks down here you have copper again. It is not like zinc constantly lost with fluids etc.. I think we have very low demands for copper and that 0,9mg per day is spot on. Especially when you consider copper is in all fods basically and absorption is 50-60%... Omg I want to do liver biopsy my liver has to look like it is made from copper lol..

Doesn't your body create things from copper? So it uses it up. But yes if you have bad bile you probably don't even eliminate the stuff you take either lol. All the metals, no?

 

[Yura]

manganese and copper are similar. They are eliminated mostly with bile. That's why I really don't want to overdose on manganese. Maybe I am already high in it.. Other elements are lost much more easily..

When copper is used in biosynthesis:​

• Bound copper (e.g. in enzymes/proteins) is not free and is not easily eliminated.
• It becomes part of tissues or enzymesand remains in the body until:
  • The protein is broken down (normal turnover),
  • The copper is recycled or,
  • In some cases, excreted via bile (main route of copper excretion).

---

♻️ What happens afterward:​

• When those proteins degrade (which happens constantly), the copper can be:
  • Recycled: sent to the liver or used again.
  • Stored: in liver, brain, or other tissues.
  • Excreted: mainly via bile into the feces.

So there is no copper loss happening if your bile is not working end of story. AL this nonsense about keep pushing stress hormones to chelate copper. It is bullshit. You deplete nutrients for adrenals and you end up more fucked than before. I trust nutritional balancing with this one instead of Gbolduev/Helen..

 

[ruprmurdoch]

you were taking zn without mn, thats why you have issues. helen wrote abt it 22018. @opiath wrote abt it few posts earlier

We all sound very similar. I havent found guys who are so similar on any forum, no lowtoxinforum/raypeatforum anything.

I have also very low ceruloplasmin and copper for years, very deficient. I have a history of taking 100mg of zinc per day and like 20g of ascorbic acid a day when I was a teenager. Then I stopped, ate a bunch peat shit, lots of sugar, milk etc. Then started with p5p got very ripped but eventually crashed. Had the lowest copper reading and ceruloplasmin reading ever. I was still convinced I was paradoxically copper toxic and tried getting it out with zinc again, b6, p5p, manganese, folic acid all that shit. All the b vitamins. Tried all combinations of forms, dosages and all but my copper never budged really and ceruloplasmin still low. I also have extremely low cholesterol.

I feel very stressed on a daily basis, could never tolerate anything like thyroid, am dependant on coffee to get out of bed but get massive adrenaline. But its like without it I cant function. I need the shot of adrenaline otherwise I am a zombie. After taking zinc for months and years, I even had zinc toxicity on my blood test, even lower testosterone and was/am in the worst shape of my life. I was actually always very skinny, now I am skinny fat. Doesnt make any sense. If I take zinc, I maybe feel good for a moment, but I basically get anemic, autistic, my whole body feels heavy and then I wake up in the morning like I was beaten alll night and run over by a truck. Cant move. Cant work. Nothing. Also feels like it stops my breathing or something. Manganese feels estrogenic for me and I just get very sad. Completely lowers my dopa and feels like it increases prolactin a lot.

I posted a lot about this also on lowtoxinforum under username deadpool for anyone who is interested to check out more labs and stuff. I could post them here also.
I dont know about the histidine thing honestly. At this point I am tired of trying to antagonize copper further. Maybe its just time to load up on it. I also saw so many good results with GHK-CU peptite like healing skin, stretch marks etc. Coincidentally I aged a lot and got stretch marks since antagonizing copper. And its not about zinc pushing copper out. Because I actually feel dead on zinc. I also tried taking chelators like molybdenum. I tried taking it with p5p. P5P was the main shit that got me very ripped oriignally but it just lost its efffectiveness. Maybe after all, its not about copper being pushed out but by that point I actually depleted it leading to my 50 blood level of copper and 13 ceruloplasmin. IDK anymore.

Anybody got tested for wilsons ? Because this could explain something but its not easy to get tested here.

There is a lot I could write about this topic. Like Yura I also benefitted like crazy form a vacation in croatia last year. Felt soooo much better and didnt take any supps. I am also starting to think its more like an adrenal issue where the adrenals are so stressed pumping out stuff constantly, and they are not strong enough and calm enough to produce ceruloplasmin and deal with the copper. And taking all these supps just makes it worse. Pushes the adrenals even more. Thats how zinc, p5p everything feels these days. I also have high DHEA-S for years. Low cerulo, low copper, high dhea-s, very very low cholesterol. These are the blood markers that define me for years and dont change. Maybe someone can make connections with this.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

@Yura
And you are on t4 and have spider veins. thats sums up. it is common knowledge that iodine can create ROS and destroy veins-when you take too much.
i remember two yrs ago when there was battle for zaporozhnya atomic plant, polish institutions place a lot of posters about lugola. one of information on poster was that it can by risky for those with vein problems

 

[Yura]

yeah I felt like shit on high doses. I take onle 1-2mg a day now.. My issues with veins is from ROS from free copper and low bioavailable copper.
I mean like I said on one test I had free copper like 15 times higher than is upper limit for free copper.. High TSH I had even as a kid I think. But first test done was done when I was like 22yo. TSH 12.. I believe that I am low in iodine. But I can't handle it. I usually push stuff even if I feel like shit. But I am happy that I didn't in case of "iodine protocol" I tried go up to like 20mg a day, but I felt like my head will explode.. I knew something really wrong is happening.. But healthy people can handle a lot of iodine. 50mg like nothing.. In some hospital testing procedures they inject you with gram doses. That would kill me for sure lol.

 

[Ingeno]

I ordered mine from bulksupplements.
They have both histidine base and histine hcl powder.
Can't tell you whats the best approach for you. I'm just sharing what worked for me.
I was taking it 5-6 days a week for 3 months straight and zinc 50mg-100mg once every few days.

When and how much did you take manganese? I feel bad when I take zinc, low emotions. Copper makes me feel good temporary, but I still have a feeling I have copper toxicity, fat malabsorption, acne etc. Still had normal copper levels on 4 hairtests though, and zinc slightly higher.

 

[Ingeno]

Also having skin collagen and elasticy issues, wrinkles, fine lines, many light brown 'moles' increased over the years.

 

[Yura]

You need blood test for copper and ceruloplasmin to really see what is going on.. Also ferritin and TIBC if you don't have iron overload as well.. Hair test will not tell you that. It will only show high something if the body is dumping it.. YOu probably have low ceruloplasmin like most of us low oxidizers do and low thyroid and andrenals.. You will not fix it with manganese. That is to myopic thinking.. You need to know your status and address everything at once. TEI recommended protocol was not helpful to you?

 

[opiath]

When and how much did you take manganese? I feel bad when I take zinc, low emotions. Copper makes me feel good temporary, but I still have a feeling I have copper toxicity, fat malabsorption, acne etc. Still had normal copper levels on 4 hairtests though, and zinc slightly higher.

Manganese deficiency is fixable in 1-2 months since the body only stores around 20mg of it.
Absorption for it is really low 1-5% so if you take a 10mg tablet you're only going to absorb like 500mcg.
It's really hard to get toxic in it since your bile can excrete multiple times what you can absorb in one day.
Feeling bad when you take it initially if you are deficient is because it shifts your pH balance hard by affecting acetylcholine breakdown.
This makes your body need zinc and other vitamins to maintain pH equilibrium.

Zinc kills emotions primarily by inhibiting GABA-A receptor in the brain which leads to all kind of compensations.
If you get to that point you don't need more zinc currently.
The way to fix GABA so the body allows more zinc is to make b6 active.
But you can't make b6 active if you're copper toxic since the body inhibits it to spare histidine.
Taking more zinc in a histidine deficient state makes you worse because the body now has to use an amino acid which is already bottlenecked to get rid of zinc.

So the best priority list for me was:
take manganese + zinc till manganese is repleted -> take histidine until copper comes down (may take months depending on dosage and levels in the body) -> when copper comes down more b6 and folate are needed so histamine and methylation go up which jumpstarts digestion -> you can take a bit more zinc again since b6 is active now

 

[Yura]

opiath have you done any tests on yourself blood/hair?

 

[opiath]

opiath did you have any tests done that you have high copeper?

No. I never cared for testing blood.
I think it's useless information for most cases.

 

[Yura]

Well that's interesting so you just supplemented by feel lol. How is testing blood useless. You see if you have low/high free copper, low/high ceruloplasmin or hair test if you are slow or fast oxidizer.. I mean how could you know what is really going on just by feel.. I am not attacking you. I am just curious.. But from looking at your hand in the video you look healthy. You probably could do a lot of dump shit and still be ok. Not case for people like me. I do another dumb shit and I am done. So I can't go by feel only..

 

[opiath]

I think minerals and hormones you see on blood tests are not good info because they are all mostly subservient to the body maintining equilibrium.
For hormones for example you have levels in blood but you also have proteins that bind them in blood so they dont go into cells.
Those hormones that do go into cells you have intracellular receptors that may or may not be there. Then you have DNA translocation which may or may not be active.
Then you have histone acetylation and DNA methylation which makes the hormone work or not work.
When you consider all those factors what does levels of estrogen, or testosterone or cortisol in blood tell you? Nothing lol.
With minerals its the same.

The most important priority for the body is to maintain blood pH so you dont die.
Everything else is obedient to that primary function.
Blood sugar, blood pressure, hormones, minerals. They all jump up and down, do backflips, stand on their head just so pH is stable.
To get useful information from a blood copper test you have to consider 500 other factors.

I did like 50 tests in 2015 when I got sick and realized quickly how I couldn't get any useful information from that so I stopped.

 

[Yura]

I understand what you mean, but to go to this extreme and completely dismiss them is not useful I think.. It is pretty helpful to know hormones, systemic proteins in combination with hair test for example. I mean when you see free copper that is 15 times elevated than upper limit you know it is pretty bad and so you should do something about it. Without that test you have no idea that something is happening. Same thing if your ferritin for example is always elevated like 1000 you think it is useless info? How do you know that you have or don't have iron overload for example and so you should start donating blood ASAP?
Also yes one test is useless, but if you do them on regular bases and you se patterns it can tell you a lot.
To say testing is useless you can''t be serious really. You will fix nothing without testing and if you did you just got lucky by picking the right things.. But in most cases you don't even know that you should fix something until it is to late.. Because you don't feel most stuff going wrong..

 

[Ingeno]

I did TEI for 1,5 years and don't think I got any benefits at all. Also never dumped heavy metals or copper, just bouncing between 4 lows, sometimes fast oxidizer according to TEI and once a slow oxidizer with higher calcium.

You need blood test for copper and ceruloplasmin to really see what is going on.. Also ferritin and TIBC if you don't have iron overload as well.. Hair test will not tell you that. It will only show high something if the body is dumping it.. YOu probably have low ceruloplasmin like most of us low oxidizers do and low thyroid and andrenals.. You will not fix it with manganese. That is to myopic thinking.. You need to know your status and address everything at once. TEI recommended protocol was not helpful to you?

 

[Ingeno]

Still tempting to try ARL again, did loads of detoxing with ALA, aglinates, pectines, sodium thiosulphate + vitamin C, zeolites etc. But got massive brain fog, erection problems, depression and no drive/libido.

Or try electrolyte protocol again.

 

[Yura]

Interesting what TEI suggested? That you have hidden copper with loads of zinc etc.? You really took their program for 1.5 years with no results? The thing is there could be a lot of reasons why you are messed u and which HTMA can't address like you are still under chronic stress for any reason. It could be toxic people around you or toxic stuff in home like mold or stressful job or some infection or some other toxicity they don't address like vit A etc.?