ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[Helen]

@TubZy

We saw those studies with leucine being low, but I guess it is a symptom since leucine is a limiting amino acid in protein synthesis. may be the body does not want to build protein. We can consider supplementing those low amino acids , like leucine alanine etc.

Also since we know that cysteine and histidine are needed to transport biotin to blood from the intestine. I was thinking may be we can add a little biotin , just a little bit not to break down histidine too much. I know this is more directed towards hair. and if your hair is improving without adding biotin then histidine is doing its job anyway

 

[mattyb]

I struggle to get RDIs even with excess calories. Do you have a secret on how to hit RDIs easily, even in calorie deficit?

I'm guessing you HAVE to log chronometer? And maybe drink veggie juice?

Yes, you have to log with cronometer for a while. I can get full RDAs of everything with 1500kcal/day.

Below is an example from a few weeks ago of what I would consider to be a really good day. I had:

Greens for breakfast
Espresso in the morning and one before working out
Black beans + eggs + pico de gallo + veggies (carrot and peppers) and an orange for lunch
Oats with stewed cinnamon honey apple for a snack before working out
Pork chops and steamed swiss chard for dinner.

I think after this I had a cinnamon bun for a late night snack, which would have brought me up to about 2000kcal, but it is not recorded to show that I can fit in full RDAs with just 1500kcal. Only things not past 100% is Vit D/E and calcium, vit d/e don't need to be high and 500mg of calcium is more than enough for me considering I don't want much of it anyway. The RDA for potassium is set to high on cronometer, actual RDA is 3000-4000mg, 5000mg is quite high. Sodium doesn't have an RDA, only an upper limit. But I am sure I passed that upper limit once I account for all the salt I put on my food.

 

[TubZy]

So you’ll keep doing the cysteine even though it’s not in protocol?

Also I have d-aspartic acid, did he say somewhere that’s no good?

Yes still using the cysteine.

Not entirely sure about the D form, but he said beta alanine and alanine were different so I just assumed

 

[Scenes]

Yes still using the cysteine.

Not entirely sure about the D form, but he said beta alanine were different so I just assumed

I know @gbolduev explicitly said it’s not just about histidine, but more and more it seems to be a case of get histidine working and the rest will follow.

Histidine hcl and Thorne extra?

 

[TubZy]

I know @gbolduev explicitly said it’s not just about histidine, but more and more it seems to be a case of get histidine working and the rest will follow.

Histidine hcl and Thorne extra?

I think he prefers natural sources instead of thorne (like bee pollen and brewers yeast). For the record, I don't do well on really any synthetic multivitamin, probably because of the zinc I'm guessing

 

[JonnyCraig]

I've purchased a ton of things, to really go all out on this protocol and then some. I can list everything later.

P.S TubZy, I bought 1lb of MSM powder to add in (perhaps it will aid the sulfuric amino's along in doing their job). Do you still use MSM?

 

[Ghost]

it is not a price to pay but it is normal and has explanation.

You're right that it shouldn't be that way, but I just mean that often when you undo the thing that the drug changed, you might go back to the state that you were in before the drug. IDK if fin stopped hair loss in people with PFS or not, but in PSSD - most people that recover say that anxiety comes back.

If I got libido and erections back to pre-SSRI, I'd be the happiest person in the world.

 

[Canari]

You're right that it shouldn't be that way, but I just mean that often when you undo the thing that the drug changed, you might go back to the state that you were in before the drug. IDK if fin stopped hair loss in people with PFS or not, but in PSSD - most people that recover say that anxiety comes back.

If I got libido and erections back to pre-SSRI, I'd be the happiest person in the world.

I do not really mean it should not be that way.... it is how it is and I have some explanation. The problem is that when you do not feel the anxiety, it does not mean it is not there but just that you do not feel it because you are in a more parasympathetic domination of the dorsal vagus nerve responsable of dissociation / freeze responses. If anxiety is the accelerator, you do not notice it because of the hand brake that is upon it, and the accelerator is still on. When the hand-brake is removed a bit, you have the sympathetic activation that comes out: you get an acceleration, both in the libido and the anxiety.

So, the reason anxiety comes back is that it had never gone but was just hidden. It means that the SSRI is creating a freeze response that numbs you, making you think the anxiety is gone. Does it make sense the way I write it? If you read the story of Ferran -it is translated to english now- he got worse the second time, because the problem is that freeze response sensitize the body to be more sensitive to aggression later on.... So you react with less. He took fin 6 years before crashing.

What I explain also means that you can get back to pre-ssri AND also get rid of anxiety.

 

[brongfogboy]

Please look at this study which shows the use of "ketoconazole" (oral) as a remedy for Glucocorticoid resistance.

Glucocorticoid resistance syndrome: treatment with ketoconazole, an efficient therapy solution case report

also note that ketoconazole is an antifungal, which many have reported feeling better on antifungals (myself included).

 

[Helen]

Please look at this study which shows the use of "ketoconazole" (oral) as a remedy for Glucocorticoid resistance.

Glucocorticoid resistance syndrome: treatment with ketoconazole, an efficient therapy solution case report

also note that ketoconazole is an antifungal, which many have reported feeling better on antifungals (myself included).

Read this carefully. No need to use synthetic drugs.

Imidazole - Wikipedia

 

[brongfogboy]

Read this carefully. No need to use synthetic drugs.

Imidazole - Wikipedia

What are your thoughts on using/testing Imidazole instead of histidine?

 

[Helen]

I have tried synthetic versions of imidazole, like keto and fluca. they did not stick. That is the first thing I tried for people. I hope histidine sticks. Histidine is imidazole. and the actual part of the zinc finger. ( receptor of cortisol)

Keto has imidazole ring , Histidine also has imidazole ring. I dont quite understand your question. Imidazole instead of histidine? both Keto and histidine have the imidazole ring.

You can try keto, it will work. you will feel better. The goal is to increase cortisol sensitivity , So anything that can do that will cure you.



If you are looking to get your libido back and erections. Ask @TubZy he is all back to normal in that department

 

[MNK99]

-Hey everyone, I have two questions regarding Cysteine and Histidine -- are pills ok? And is beta-alanyl-L-Histidine ok?
-I may buy this: Solgar, L-Cysteine, 500 mg, 90 Vegetable Capsules

Perhaps this for histidine,
Jarrow Formulas, L-Carnosine, Beta-Alanyl-L-Histidine, 500 mg, 90 Capsules
-I may dissolve them in water, o/w get powders somehow.

-And as an amino complex I see this:
Solgar, Essential Amino Complex, 90 Vegetable Capsules
Suitable?

-For liquid electrolytes -- I'll try Eidon.
-Also I'll get this Betaine HCL Thompson, Betaine HCl, 90 Tablets

 

[jacknap]

I think he prefers natural sources instead of thorne (like bee pollen and brewers yeast). For the record, I don't do well on really any synthetic multivitamin, probably because of the zinc I'm guessing

tubz gbold said your libido/erection issues are recovered right? and your sleep is recovered? could u point to anything in particular that helped those two things?

what remaining symptoms do u have left? sleep and libido stuff seem like the biggies.

 

[TubZy]

tubz gbold said your libido/erection issues are recovered right? and your sleep is recovered? could u point to anything in particular that helped those two things?

what remaining symptoms do u have left? sleep and libido stuff seem like the biggies.

remaining is energy levels still on the lower end , sleep is OK, but not great. Gbol said as cortisol becomes more sensitive and potassium normalizes (since potassium regulates metabolism via thyroid) those should resolve too. I'm not on the full protocol yet either so within the next few days I will be, and will have a better overview.

Libido, erections, sex drive etc all that is great and back to normal. I wake up with a rock hard erection every morning

 

[jacknap]

remaining is energy levels still on the lower end , sleep is OK, but not great. Gbol said as cortisol become more sensitive those should normalize too. I'm not on the full protocol yet either so within the next few days I will be, and will have a better overview.

Libido, erections, sex drive etc all that is great and back to normal. I wake up with a rock hard erection every morning

what helped you get your erections/libido back?

yeah I think I have cortisol issues as well. puffy face/more adipose tissue and random wakes at night.

 

[TubZy]

what helped you get your erections/libido back?

yeah I think I have cortisol issues as well. puffy face/more adipose tissue and random wakes at night.

Yeah, also still some mild water retention too, my jawline hasn't fully tighten like it did when I was RU since cortisol is not sensitive potassium becomes low and PFS retains sodium.

This is what I'm doing it is from page 9 in this thread, but it very similar to what all the other guys who had success doing this like Scenes, Tall Glass, Sevens etc. Overall the histidine + cysteine

Hi, so just wanted to do an updated after two weeks of experimenting with this idea so far.

What I found was that histidine and cysteine puts my libido, digestion, erections back to normal. I take 250mg of each twice a day, but went up to 500mg of each once a day too. I tried multiple other options like adding in zinc and copper with it and it completely destroys most of the benefits from it. So I still can't handle zinc or copper yet. Histidine increases zinc uptake to tissue so I'm just letting it naturally do the work through foods.

The only thing that didn't get fully resolved is my energy levels and still have some water retention in my face. So I think it is cortisol related because when I take RU it completely fixes that part since it blocks cortisol. I talked to Gbol extensively about this and he thinks as histidine increases stomach acid and gets zinc back into tissue again this will get cortisol sensitive again. Same goes with taking small amounts of HCL.

I highly suggest anyone reading this thread to try or start with 250mg of hisitidine HCL and cysteine HCL taken together. Make sure you get the HCL form of the aminos though so they absorb. If you don't notice anything up it to 500mg of each taken together once a day. This has worked for many people so far that I talked to in private here so far.

My next step is to start brewers yeast with HCL along the hisitidine and cysteine I'm already taking. Goal is leverage the zinc and B vitamins along with the aminos in the brewers yeast to start replenishing mineral store quicker now since digestion seems to back in order pretty well.

I'm not doing the FULL protocol yet (I haven't added in serine, aspartic acid and the other aminos or the liquid electrolytes). I was planning to just use the brewers yeast for the remaining aminos or just get the amino acid supplement I posted on the previous page. I toyed with beta alanine once with histidine, but haven't taken it enough to really draw any conclusion yet.

I also did test histidine by itself up to 3 grams (mentioned it in one of the pages in this thread) and did not get the same benefits when it was used soley alone. When I added in cysteine felt much much better (so cysteine does have influence)

Other things I noticed:

• hair is growing much fast all over
• hair growing darker/thicker looking
• skin looks better
• wake up with rock erection every morning, intense orgasms and big loads
• decrease in brain fog, much better focus
• muscles more full (not sure if this is directly related to the aminos or just from my digestion/metabolism getting fully back to normal TBH)

So in conclusion for anyone that wants to try (this is the starter/ghetto version):

• 250mg (or 500mg) histidine HCL
• 250mg (or 500mg) cysteine HCL
• 250mg - 500mg betaine HCL with each meal (technically optional) to absorb vitamins/minerals better and retain them quicker. Dissolve in water -not capsule
• zinc/copper but do NOT start with this as it will castrate you or reduce benefits, stick to brewers yeast if you really want to use something right away
• full amino acid supplement (optional/experimental)
• brewers yeast for minerals and B vitamins since histidine will increase stomach acid (1 tsp - 2 tablespoon daily)
• liquid electrolytes supplement (haven't tried)

Histidine and zinc

http://encognitive.com/files/Histidine-GLA-Zinc Complex to Block Pain & Inflammation in Treatment-resistant Sydromes_0.pdf

 

[jacknap]

solid thanks man. sorry for the redundant questions. been trying to keep up but a lot of this stuff goes over my head and hard to keep up lol

u think adding just the bolded bullets to what I'm doing (cdnuts protocol) would be wise?

• 250mg (or 500mg) histidine HCL
• 250mg (or 500mg) cysteine HCL
• 250mg - 500mg betaine HCL with each meal (technically optional) to absorb vitamins/minerals better and retain them quicker. Dissolve in water -not capsule

 

[TubZy]

solid thanks man. sorry for the redundant questions. been trying to keep up but a lot of this stuff goes over my head and hard to keep up lol

u think adding just the bolded bullets to what I'm doing (cdnuts protocol) would be wise?

• 250mg (or 500mg) histidine HCL
• 250mg (or 500mg) cysteine HCL
• 250mg - 500mg betaine HCL with each meal (technically optional) to absorb vitamins/minerals better and retain them quicker. Dissolve in water -not capsule

yeah man, but I mean there is an entire protocol behind it (the original post here) but yeah that is definitely a start and you should get results from it and the incorporate other things as needed (I'm in the process of adding in the rest of the stuff ATM). It is literally the same concept as everything else we have been trying just a different method.

 

[freeflow]

Want to do a quick report: brewers yeast with hcl increases my dick sensitivity and orgasm pleasure for sure. I took 10 gramms yesterday evening, woke up during night, had a pleasurable ejaculation and it seems orgasm did not crash me! I fell back to sleep to have a wonderful sexual dream too, and today morning i have some libido too.
These aminos are doing the trick, cant wait for my order to arrive.