Thyroid, Reverse T3 & PFS

[Minime]

Hey @JonnyCraig ... in that link they still mention that RT3 increases when there's an infection or inflammation... which is why I believe mine to be high... Currently, I can't argue with the results, my morning erections are great, my genitals hang fuller, lower and warmer... all metabolism related... and once the downward spiral of high estrogen and low thyroid begins, which I believe is the underlying symptoms of PFS, it's hard to shake out of...

Also, on that quote, that guy is banned from that site... i wonder what he did to get banned... some forums are stupid and get very petty .. not at Hackstasis though...

You mention the downward spiral of high estrogen and low thyroid...can you clarify what you mean by low thyroid? Are you referring to under performing Thyroid (hypo), or maybe low TSH?

 

[joekool]

It might be both but let me explain what I've noticed. First, estrogen levels need to be understood in men. Too high and we have problems. The first is the lowered conversion of T4 to T3. With increased estrogen, men usually put on fat, especially around the waist. This increase in fat also lowers thyroid output. So not only is our conversion lower thanks to estrogen but our output is lower. This puts us in a hypo state. Now our metabolism, which is slow, chooses where to send blood. You can look up symptoms of both hypothyroidism and high RT3. All list brain fog, ED, fatigue, depression and pain.

Additionally this is what our bodies do during times of stress, infection and inflammation. It literally chooses which organs to send blood to for survival. Guess which organs are last? Our genitals including desire & libido.

So since starting T3, the overall temp, appearance and size of my genitals have improved. Gbold doesn't believe RT3 pools but I do. Either it's pooling or the conversion to RT3 is overwhelming.

I'm betting I no longer have the inflammation and stress load of fin and it's downstream affects. That's why I'm also keeping estrogen super low. Additionally, funny thing about estrogen, blood tests aren't really accurate because estrogen binds to tissue and doesn't stick around in blood too long.

 

[JonnyCraig]

joekool...

I think I will use Tyromix.. but I will be following you closely here from now on.

I used T3-only last night, and today, Tyromix (T4/T3 2:1 ratio) and think I prefer the latter. Also I was using Tyromix earlier this year and felt great.

How does it impact your skin and scalp hair??? Looking back at pics of myself on tyromix... I was quite dashing.

 

[Helen]

@joekool

N-Acetylcysteine Administration Prevents Nonthyroidal Illness Syndrome in Patients With Acute Myocardial Infarction: A Randomized Clinical Trial (PDF Download Available)

I know it does not pool, since it goes away in hours. This is a regulation,


This protocol is not about rt3, this protocol is solely about a chance to upregulate cortisol. And taking thyroid alone will do absolutely nothing to it. since body will just turn on adrenaline. This is why letro is used on this protocol and without it , NOTHING will happen, but upregulation of adrenaline receptors, which will back fire for the hair later on.

@JonnyCraig
If you feel better on tyromix, that is because it does nothing, both t3 and rt3 just go up. giving your a very little overall increase. it is more gradual that is why you feel better on it. I would assume.

that is why people take progesterone with tyromix Without progesterone all of it will go into rt3 on tyromix. Since all your progesterone that you are taking with cortisol insensitity goes into cortisol and this allows the body convert all thyroid into t3 since it knows that cortisol is there.

That is why taking tyromix with progesterone, is like taking t3 with cortisol. FIXES NOTHING.

But if you take t3 with AI. this has a chance. But you will have sever inflammation in this. With inflammed prostate, with cracking joints. with many things. Since SODS wont be there and you need to eat very well, to have a chance to fight this inflammation otherwise you will go thru all your histidine stores from the muscle very fast.

 

[JonnyCraig]

To anyone following me (if any).

It looks like my hair was in fantastic shape (looking at pics now) in June and especially July! I started Tyromix April 1st, 2017. I stopped Tyromix on Aug 1st it looks like... (I read something on rpf of someone getting hair loss on Tyromix, and I got scared off) then I jumped on lisuride. Began lisuride Aug 7, 2017.

My hair then looked like absolute shit on Aug 28, 2017. (I was off T4/T3 for about a month, and on lisuride for about half a month).

This is pretty fascinating stuff guys.

This is as close as I've come to an A-AH moment in forever. It's almost as clear as day.

 

[Helen]

Jonny you did the right thing with going on lisuride. on thyroid your prolactin went up. that is why I guess you went on it. If you did not go on lisuride the come off from the thyroid would have been even worse.

taking thyroid alone will just increase prolactin. I bet it caused shedding, since prolactin does that. this is why Joe is blocking aromatase, since if he did not, he would not be able stay on the thyroid. Prolactin would kill the axis. And retain too much calcium and cause hairloss.

 

[Helen]

If you take progesterone with thyroid, it is like taking cortisol with the thyroid. prolactin wont go up. SO you will be fine. But this setup has no chance of fixing your PFS.

 

[JonnyCraig]

Jonny you did the right thing with going on lisuride. on thyroid your prolactin went up. that is why I guess you went on it. If you did not go on lisuride the come off from the thyroid would have been even worse.

Haha.. in hindsight, that is very true!

Lisuride was quite interesting.. made me laugh a lot (haven't laughed as hard as I have on lisuride, in a longggg time, must be the dopamine?!) but overall it didn't feel as nice as thyroid.

OK so on Thyroid, I was also using 100mg oral prog once a day, until June 25th, I stopped 100mg oral prog and then used 20mg on testicles. Went BACK ON 100mg oral prog, July 21st.

@gbolduev did taking 100mg oral prog with the T4/T3 2:1 ratio help and why?

 

[JonnyCraig]

If you take progesterone with thyroid, it is like taking cortisol with the thyroid. prolactin wont go up. SO you will be fine. But this setup has no chance of fixing your PFS.

Fascinating! Can you elaborate a bit on that... is that why my hair seemed to be good on this combo???

FWIW, I don't have PFS per se. I used RU58841 (which is potentially even worse, some would say). However I don't have nearly as many issues as most guys with PFS issues or others guys who have used RU58841 and are still battling issues. I am mostly worried about hair (because I'm a vain SOB) but also of course, want to function great sexually/physically/mentally.

 

[Helen]

Haha.. in hindsight, that is very true!

Lisuride was quite interesting.. made me laugh a lot (haven't laughed as hard as I have on lisuride, in a longggg time, must be the dopamine?!) but overall it didn't feel as nice as thyroid.

OK so on Thyroid, I was also using 100mg oral prog once a day, until June 25th, I stopped 100mg oral prog and then used 20mg on testicles. Went BACK ON 100mg oral prog, July 21st.

@gbolduev did taking 100mg oral prog with the T4/T3 2:1 ratio help and why?

I hope you understand. Thyroid needs cortisol to be present to work. just think about thyroid as fire and cortisol as wood. if there is no wood. you have rt3. no fire.

Progesterone converts into cortisol. Body knows that wow now I have extra cortisol. and thus it allows your t4 to convert into t3. and not rt3.

Same exact thing would happen if you took t3 with cortisol.

that is why if you take tyromix with progesterone you will be fine. But if you take tyromix alone with your CLOSED THYROID CONDITION. Your body will convert all t4 into RT3

 

[JonnyCraig]

I hope you understand. Thyroid needs cortisol to be present to work. just think about thyroid as fire and cortisol as wood. if there is no wood. you have rt3. no fire.

Progesterone converts into cortisol. Body know that wow now I hve extra cortisol. and thus it allows your t4 to convert into t3. and not rt3.

Same exact thing would happen if you took t3 with cortisol.

Wow... thank you so much for that. This is great information. Gold mine!

Do you still recommend T3-only over T4/T3 in a 2:1 ratio?? (because of no worries on converting to RT3, etc)

Keep in mind, the products I have for T3 = 8mcg per drop - while the T4/T3 mix = 6mcg T4 & 3mcg T3 per drop.

I read that max of 5mcg of T3 should be taken at once; obviously this is highly debatable, BUT perhaps is a factor in why I feel better on the T4/T3 ratio than pure T3???

 

[JonnyCraig]

@johnsmith

 

[Helen]

T3 alone will put more pressure on your iron. your iron levels are 63. Until your retain more in the cell, you will have problems converting progesterone into cortisol to allow t3 to work. This is why you feel btter on tyromix now, since it is weaker

But I would do pure t3 in your case just smaller and increase it slower as iron increases in the cell, you will feel good. IF iron stays low your tyromix will convert into RT3. Since IRON is what's needed to convert progesterone into cortisol. And without cortisol your body wont allow t3 to go up unopposed

 

[JonnyCraig]

T3 alone will put more pressure on your iron. your iron levels are 63. Until your retain more in the cell, you will have problems converting progesterone into cortisol to allow t3 to work. This is why you feel btter on tyromix now, since it is weaker

But I would do pure t3 in your case just smaller and increase it slower as iron increases in the cell, you will feel good. IF iron stays low your tyromix will convert into RT3. Since IRON is what's needed to convert progesterone into cortisol. And without cortisol your body wont allow t3 to go up unopposed

My mind is blown during the past few exchanges.

Trying to gather my thoughts.

So, you're saying T3 will actually help to retain more iron in the cell, over time? and/or it's simply safer since there's no chance of T4 converting to RT3 since my iron is low?


Slightly off-topic but what are your thoughts on supplementing Iron? like Advanced ferrochel iron. I used to use this, and still have some. I know in the rpf world it's a big NO NO to supplement iron...

Advanced Ferrochel®

Yielding 27 mg of Iron

The ingredients in Source Naturals Advanced Ferrochel® have been shown in studies to help increase and maintain blood levels of iron, while being gentle to the stomach and colon. This product contains a form of iron that is easily absorbed and more bioavailable than other forms of iron such as ferrous sulfate. Ascorbic acid has been shown to increase the bioavailability of iron. Vitamin B-12 and folic acid have been added for additional support.*

 

[Helen]

NO, don't take iron. All thyroid problems are because of this. Effects of N-acetylcysteine on Low T3 Syndrome - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

IL-6.


That is why I suggested what I suggested Cysteine, histidine and glycine exhibit anti‐inflammatory effects in human coronary arterial endothelial cells

 

[JonnyCraig]

NO, don't take iron. All thyroid problems are because of this. Effects of N-acetylcysteine on Low T3 Syndrome - Full Text View - ClinicalTrials.gov

IL-6.


That is why I suggested what I suggested Cysteine, histidine and glycine exhibit anti‐inflammatory effects in human coronary arterial endothelial cells

Thanks Big G.

Some interesting info for others.. (related to females but cortisol applies just the same)

*Cortisol and thyroid—We need a proper amount of cortisol in the body in order to allow thyroid to work efficiently. I say that cortisol is like a car that carries thyroid hormone out of the blood and into the cell in order for the thyroid to work. On the other hand, too much cortisol can actually block the passage of thyroid into the cell. This means that before we can get thyroid hormones functioning properly in the body we may first have to make sure that the adrenal glands are healthy and that cortisol levels are where they should be. This can be done by measuring the cortisol with a salivary hormone test.

*Cortisol and progesterone—Progesterone is the “mother” hormone that is a precursor or building block that can turn into other hormones in the body, such as cortisol, DHEA, testosterone, and estradiol. When the body is under chronic stress too much progesterone may turn into cortisol in order to handle the stress, leaving too little of the progesterone to turn into DHEA, testosterone, and estradiol. This results in tests showing low levels of these hormones and the patient may have symptoms that accompany those low levels. I use the analogy that “mother progesterone” feeds the loudest baby (cortisol), and the other children (DHEA, testosterone, and estradiol) decrease in size because all the attention is being given to cortisol.

Another consideration is that if a person has low progesterone we may supplement it to help relax her so she can sleep better at night—progesterone turns into serotonin and then melatonin, promoting sleep. But if her cortisol is low and if she takes the progesterone at bedtime, the progesterone may turn into cortisol and actually keep her awake. For someone who’s taking progesterone at night and experiencing sleep problems I suggest they take the dose during the day to allow it to properly act in the body before bedtime.

Hormones and How They Interact

 

[Clementine]

Thanks Big G.

Some interesting info for others.. (related to females but cortisol applies just the same)

But if her cortisol is low and if she takes the progesterone at bedtime, the progesterone may turn into cortisol and actually keep her awake. For someone who’s taking progesterone at night and experiencing sleep problems I suggest they take the dose during the day to allow it to properly act in the body before bedtime.

This happens to me if I take progesterone at night, and I do have both low cortisol and low progesterone (I'm not currently taking progesterone).
But my thyroid levels don't perform as @gbolduev describes for someone with low cortisol. I actually have fairly good t4 to t3 conversion.

 

[joekool]

Just to give an update, on Saturday I fell on ice so I've been decently sore.. my neck is pretty sore, like a car accident... so every morning I wake up fairly sore... and with a slight fever... but it kinda goes away in an hour... i haven't been able to go to the gym and i'm down 6 lbs... but genitals are good... I have physical therapy next week so hopefully i'll be back to normal... other than that, i'm decent

 

[Helen]

This happens to me if I take progesterone at night, and I do have both low cortisol and low progesterone (I'm not currently taking progesterone).
But my thyroid levels don't perform as @gbolduev describes for someone with low cortisol. I actually have fairly good t4 to t3 conversion.

Yes you do, but where is your RT3

 

[joekool]

This study is interesting, though not on humans...

Summary: The possible role of thyroid hormones in the Nitric Oxide (NO)- mediated response to sexual stimulation, and on prostaglandin E1 (PGE1) and sildenafil in the treatment of erectile dysfunction was investigated using the corpus cavernosum of the New Zealand rabbit animal model. The parameters studied were penile erection monitored as contractile force of the erectile tissue, sperm count and motility; in parallel with the haematocrit, red cell count or rheology, Heart Rate (HR), Mean Arterial Pressure (MAP), Thyroid Stimulating Hormones (TSH) and Thyroixine levels. Hypothyroidism or thyroidectomy was found to cause depletion of Endothelium Derived Relaxant Factor (EDRF) thereby causing very feeble contraction of the cavernosum muscle, in both Prostaglandin E1 (PGE1) and Sildenafil, oligospermia and less than 45% motile sperms. Thyroxine treatment produced contraction proportionate to the concentrations of PGE1 and Sildenafil; providing evidence that the erectogenic actions of both PGE1 and Sildenafil are possible only in the presence of adequate thyroid hormone level