Brainstorming & Ideas (PFS - Gbol)

[mattyb]

You can't control people and tell them what to do. This is a forum, it's meant for discussion. I don't think gbold would want the responsibility that comes with developing a specific protocol, collecting data, etc. The treatment and study of others is a moral burden to take on, you open people up to harm - I know I wouldn't want on my conscious. I work in research and understand how important consent is and educating people on the theory and protocol of your treatment. People like myself have full time jobs just doing that, I wouldn't expect someone in their spare time to do this.

People will try whatever they want to try. I suggest instead that you treat yourself like a study. Try one treatment at a time, have a washout period between treatments you apply. Try and keep outside factors as consistent as possible (sleep, diet, exercise, stress, etc.). Develop ideas based on your tests, and discuss your tests with others to develop more consistent theories - and if you do that WRITE UP A GOOD MEDICAL HISTORY, otherwise people will always be lacking information about your specific case and are more likely to give you bad info.

Clearly the best protocol is fasting/chelation and proper refeeding - but no one except Orion has really been dedicated enough to try it out because it takes lots of willpower, a good mindset, and the right circumstances to pull off.

 

[wuf]

You can't control people and tell them what to do. This is a forum, it's meant for discussion. I don't think gbold would want the responsibility that comes with developing a specific protocol, collecting data, etc. The treatment and study of others is a moral burden to take on, you open people up to harm - I know I wouldn't want on my conscious. I work in research and understand how important consent is and educating people on the theory and protocol of your treatment. People like myself have full time jobs just doing that, I wouldn't expect someone in their spare time to do this.

People will try whatever they want to try. I suggest instead that you treat yourself like a study. Try one treatment at a time, have a washout period between treatments you apply. Try and keep outside factors as consistent as possible (sleep, diet, exercise, stress, etc.). Develop ideas based on your tests, and discuss your tests with others to develop more consistent theories - and if you do that WRITE UP A GOOD MEDICAL HISTORY, otherwise people will always be lacking information about your specific case and are more likely to give you bad info.

Clearly the best protocol is fasting/chelation and proper refeeding - but no one except Orion has really been dedicated enough to try it out because it takes lots of willpower, a good mindset, and the right circumstances to pull off.

I got what you are saying.
I was just wondring if it could be possible to outline some common protocol to try as CdNuts did.
Peple would be free to choose and try it.
Over here there are so many info that can really make a dude get confused.

 

[TubZy]

I also want to say that we are all running around and around with to many theories....
I think we should make order and hereby is my suggestion after we discusses different theorical possibilities:

1) All of us should take blood and hair tests
2)Compare them each other to understand if we all match with gbold's theory
3)Try to make get out protocols from what the tests are

In my own opinion we could be more organized if we really want to find out something based on real data.. Gbold already put out his theory, but put out also different potential protocols based on his own theory and not on real data coming from our analysis..
I feel we are loosing time talking and talking and trying things just randomly and without real data under our hands.

We should organize a deadline where all of us should get blood/hair thests and then from that data start to discuss it.

I know it is not simple to organize a straight work to collaborate all together but this is the way we should act if we want to get somewhere, otherwise we are endind up to become as Propeciahelp or other forums..just talking.

I think gbolduev should be the director and should suggest us to collect analysis. we should all have the same analisys to check the differences what is similar to get to a common point so to esclude useless protocols or theories.

My 2 cents, but I feel we are not going nowhere since people (as me) we almost know what we are talking about.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS KIND OF CDNUTS FORUM, WHERE PEOPLE IS DIRECTED TO TRY A PROTOCOL, AND THAT'S THE WAY TO RUN, NOT GOING AROUND WITH NO CLUE.

Can we do it?

Wuf, I saw your log on swole source and you literally trying to play both sides here, just mentioned today your hormones are back in range with CD herbs and you are doing better so why do you keep pushing this stuff and making demands on Gbol's theory it does nothing but create problems and confusion? Just stick with one protocol and do it, you are doing great on CD's so why do you continue to make demands from gbol and us when you are doing fine?

 

[wuf]

I said my hormones grow up in range cause it is true, since I posted there time ago that my hormones were all low.
Said this is am not cured.
I am not playing at all..playing for what? I just reported what my new labs are.
And I reported as I probably did here that I have random ups and downs.
What is weird about this?
I am not pushing, I am just proposing. If what I propose is not welcome as others replied, that's fine.
No problem at all. Just trying to give inputs.
No bad intentions at all if this is what you're thinking I'm doing.
Going to stay in my place then and not bothering, do not worry I don't have any intention of being a finger in the ass.

 

[BeLikeWater]

I also want to say that we are all running around and around with to many theories....
I think we should make order and hereby is my suggestion after we discusses different theorical possibilities:

1) All of us should take blood and hair tests
2)Compare them each other to understand if we all match with gbold's theory
3)Try to make get out protocols from what the tests are

In my own opinion we could be more organized if we really want to find out something based on real data.. Gbold already put out his theory, but put out also different potential protocols based on his own theory and not on real data coming from our analysis..
I feel we are loosing time talking and talking and trying things just randomly and without real data under our hands.

We should organize a deadline where all of us should get blood/hair thests and then from that data start to discuss it.

I know it is not simple to organize a straight work to collaborate all together but this is the way we should act if we want to get somewhere, otherwise we are endind up to become as Propeciahelp or other forums..just talking.

I think gbolduev should be the director and should suggest us to collect analysis. we should all have the same analisys to check the differences what is similar to get to a common point so to esclude useless protocols or theories.

My 2 cents, but I feel we are not going nowhere since people (as me) we almost know what we are talking about.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS KIND OF CDNUTS FORUM, WHERE PEOPLE IS DIRECTED TO TRY A PROTOCOL, AND THAT'S THE WAY TO RUN, NOT GOING AROUND WITH NO CLUE.

Can we do it?

Totaly agree on this, people think Gbold is very good but he and his followers doesnt follow scientific method, but its good to have new theories, count me on that.

 

[BeLikeWater]

I also want to say that we are all running around and around with to many theories....
I think we should make order and hereby is my suggestion after we discusses different theorical possibilities:

1) All of us should take blood and hair tests
2)Compare them each other to understand if we all match with gbold's theory
3)Try to make get out protocols from what the tests are

In my own opinion we could be more organized if we really want to find out something based on real data.. Gbold already put out his theory, but put out also different potential protocols based on his own theory and not on real data coming from our analysis..
I feel we are loosing time talking and talking and trying things just randomly and without real data under our hands.

We should organize a deadline where all of us should get blood/hair thests and then from that data start to discuss it.

I know it is not simple to organize a straight work to collaborate all together but this is the way we should act if we want to get somewhere, otherwise we are endind up to become as Propeciahelp or other forums..just talking.

I think gbolduev should be the director and should suggest us to collect analysis. we should all have the same analisys to check the differences what is similar to get to a common point so to esclude useless protocols or theories.

My 2 cents, but I feel we are not going nowhere since people (as me) we almost know what we are talking about.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS KIND OF CDNUTS FORUM, WHERE PEOPLE IS DIRECTED TO TRY A PROTOCOL, AND THAT'S THE WAY TO RUN, NOT GOING AROUND WITH NO CLUE.

Can we do it?

Wuf, I saw your log on swole source and you literally trying to play both sides here, just mentioned today your hormones are back in range with CD herbs and you are doing better so why do you keep pushing this stuff and making demands on Gbol's theory it does nothing but create problems and confusion? Just stick with one protocol and do it, you are doing great on CD's so why do you continue to make demands from gbol and us when you are doing fine?

The is very strange, his "hormones" can be in range, that doesnt mean anything for PFS, the only thing you can measure noedays to know you have PFS is 5ar metabolites in the CNS are Melcangi pointed out.

 

[TubZy]

I also want to say that we are all running around and around with to many theories....
I think we should make order and hereby is my suggestion after we discusses different theorical possibilities:

1) All of us should take blood and hair tests
2)Compare them each other to understand if we all match with gbold's theory
3)Try to make get out protocols from what the tests are

In my own opinion we could be more organized if we really want to find out something based on real data.. Gbold already put out his theory, but put out also different potential protocols based on his own theory and not on real data coming from our analysis..
I feel we are loosing time talking and talking and trying things just randomly and without real data under our hands.

We should organize a deadline where all of us should get blood/hair thests and then from that data start to discuss it.

I know it is not simple to organize a straight work to collaborate all together but this is the way we should act if we want to get somewhere, otherwise we are endind up to become as Propeciahelp or other forums..just talking.

I think gbolduev should be the director and should suggest us to collect analysis. we should all have the same analisys to check the differences what is similar to get to a common point so to esclude useless protocols or theories.

My 2 cents, but I feel we are not going nowhere since people (as me) we almost know what we are talking about.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS KIND OF CDNUTS FORUM, WHERE PEOPLE IS DIRECTED TO TRY A PROTOCOL, AND THAT'S THE WAY TO RUN, NOT GOING AROUND WITH NO CLUE.

Can we do it?

Wuf, I saw your log on swole source and you literally trying to play both sides here, just mentioned today your hormones are back in range with CD herbs and you are doing better so why do you keep pushing this stuff and making demands on Gbol's theory it does nothing but create problems and confusion? Just stick with one protocol and do it, you are doing great on CD's so why do you continue to make demands from gbol and us when you are doing fine?

The is very strange, his "hormones" can be in range, that doesnt mean anything for PFS, the only thing you can measure noedays to know you have PFS is 5ar metabolites in the CNS are Melcangi pointed out.

Yup, actually that is like 90% of the people here. I said it in his case because he said CD's herb got his hormones in range and he felt good...so why start messing with experimental protocols if he is doing fine on that protocol now?

 

[wuf]

Wuf, I saw your log on swole source and you literally trying to play both sides here, just mentioned today your hormones are back in range with CD herbs and you are doing better so why do you keep pushing this stuff and making demands on Gbol's theory it does nothing but create problems and confusion? Just stick with one protocol and do it, you are doing great on CD's so why do you continue to make demands from gbol and us when you are doing fine?

The is very strange, his "hormones" can be in range, that doesnt mean anything for PFS, the only thing you can measure noedays to know you have PFS is 5ar metabolites in the CNS are Melcangi pointed out.

Yup, actually that is like 90% of the people here. I said it in his case because he said CD's herb got his hormones in range and he felt good...so why start messing with experimental protocols if he is doing fine on that protocol now?

Tubzy
You are missing a piece of my post I wrote in Cd forum:
I said I stopped herbs for a while (around 2 months ago) and that I just took new labs showing hormones in ranges.and randomly I feel good % of recover...RANDOMLY. And that I have the plan to start back taking herbs again.. this means I am not on any protocol at the moment.

 

[Helen]

Wuf,

3 weeks ago you asked me to give you the protocol from DHEA crash. I did. You felt better. You were in crash mode. Which herbs did what to you? I don't quite understand.

I thought you posted you felt better on what I recommended for you. And that before that you were in the crash mode.

 

[Helen]

I also want to say that we are all running around and around with to many theories....
I think we should make order and hereby is my suggestion after we discusses different theorical possibilities:

1) All of us should take blood and hair tests
2)Compare them each other to understand if we all match with gbold's theory
3)Try to make get out protocols from what the tests are

In my own opinion we could be more organized if we really want to find out something based on real data.. Gbold already put out his theory, but put out also different potential protocols based on his own theory and not on real data coming from our analysis..
I feel we are loosing time talking and talking and trying things just randomly and without real data under our hands.

We should organize a deadline where all of us should get blood/hair thests and then from that data start to discuss it.

I know it is not simple to organize a straight work to collaborate all together but this is the way we should act if we want to get somewhere, otherwise we are endind up to become as Propeciahelp or other forums..just talking.

I think gbolduev should be the director and should suggest us to collect analysis. we should all have the same analisys to check the differences what is similar to get to a common point so to esclude useless protocols or theories.

My 2 cents, but I feel we are not going nowhere since people (as me) we almost know what we are talking about.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS KIND OF CDNUTS FORUM, WHERE PEOPLE IS DIRECTED TO TRY A PROTOCOL, AND THAT'S THE WAY TO RUN, NOT GOING AROUND WITH NO CLUE.

Can we do it?

Totaly agree on this, people think Gbold is very good but he and his followers doesnt follow scientific method, but its good to have new theories, count me on that.

Scientific method? What are you talking about? You constanly go off the info from Melganci. I am going off my own tests.
I am totally cured .

You seem to miss that metabolites and regulations dont depend on 5 alpha and depend on other systems like cortisol and gaba system regulation . that is why it does not go back up. on it own. And that is why no matter what you do, you will not be able to put it back on . the only way ON is by increasing estrogen singaling.

LIbido goes up right away when estrogen goes up. That is why estrogen plus DHT -= working libido instant

Now you have to figure out how to increase estrogen . And it is not done by taking estrogen.


Take resveratrol and increase estrogen signaling. and you will see what I am talking about.

You seem to constanly look at 5 alpha metabolites. 5 alpha is closed for a reason. I explained to you why. And to open 5 alpha, you need to increase estrogen signaling. Otherwise you will not open it up.


It is silly to look at 5 alpha metabolites and just think how to increase 5 alpha 1 or 2. It is not about that. It is about . how to fix a system which does not allow 5 alpha to go back on.

 

[TubZy]

The is very strange, his "hormones" can be in range, that doesnt mean anything for PFS, the only thing you can measure noedays to know you have PFS is 5ar metabolites in the CNS are Melcangi pointed out.

Yup, actually that is like 90% of the people here. I said it in his case because he said CD's herb got his hormones in range and he felt good...so why start messing with experimental protocols if he is doing fine on that protocol now?

Tubzy
You are missing a piece of my post I wrote in Cd forum:
I said I stopped herbs for a while (around 2 months ago) and that I just took new labs showing hormones in ranges.and randomly I feel good % of recover...RANDOMLY. And that I have the plan to start back taking herbs again.. this means I am not on any protocol at the moment.

Right, that is my point. The herbs helped get your labs back in range which you were very worried about on SS. So your labs are good and you feel good so why are rushing to jump onto an experimental protocol so quickly that we are not sure of yet? Why not just continue taking the herbs..why risk messing up your progress..i don't get it

 

[wuf]

Yup, actually that is like 90% of the people here. I said it in his case because he said CD's herb got his hormones in range and he felt good...so why start messing with experimental protocols if he is doing fine on that protocol now?

Tubzy
You are missing a piece of my post I wrote in Cd forum:
I said I stopped herbs for a while (around 2 months ago) and that I just took new labs showing hormones in ranges.and randomly I feel good % of recover...RANDOMLY. And that I have the plan to start back taking herbs again.. this means I am not on any protocol at the moment.

Right, that is my point. The herbs helped get your labs back in range which you were very worried about on SS. So your labs are good and you feel good so why are rushing to jump onto an experimental protocol so quickly that we are not sure of yet? Why not just continue taking the herbs..why risk messing up your progress..i don't get it

Who told you I am good?
I wrote I feel randomly good.
And I am off the herbs from 2 months.
I am not on any protocol and I am wondering which protocol to follow.
Can I have a brain and think about what will be my next step?
Or I have to be loyal to 1 single approach cause otherwise I am a disloyal???

I don't understand what we are speaking about..
About a post I wrote on another forum saying herbs made my hormones rise!?!.. is it that important?

 

[TubZy]

Tubzy
You are missing a piece of my post I wrote in Cd forum:
I said I stopped herbs for a while (around 2 months ago) and that I just took new labs showing hormones in ranges.and randomly I feel good % of recover...RANDOMLY. And that I have the plan to start back taking herbs again.. this means I am not on any protocol at the moment.

Right, that is my point. The herbs helped get your labs back in range which you were very worried about on SS. So your labs are good and you feel good so why are rushing to jump onto an experimental protocol so quickly that we are not sure of yet? Why not just continue taking the herbs..why risk messing up your progress..i don't get it

Who told you I am good?
I wrote I feel randomly good.
And I am off the herbs from 2 months.
I am not on any protocol and I am wondering which protocol to follow.
Can I have a brain and think about what will be my next step?
Or I have to be loyal to 1 single approach cause otherwise I am a disloyal???

I don't understand what we are speaking about..
About a post I wrote on another forum saying herbs made my hormones rise!?!.. is it that important?

Trying to help you my man. A week ago you rushed a jumped on the mineral protocol which is not really even a protocol and boom you complained you felt like shit. Now your back to square one asking for the next step again when this stuff hasn't even been tested yet.

You can think all you want on your own except you aren't thinking on your own, you keep asking us to give you answers about protocols/dosages and experiments no ones the answer to.

 

[Helen]

I gave tons of ways to fix it,. minerals route, high dose progesterone, RU route. Thorne extra with resveratrol route,

clomid protocol.

People wrote the feedbacks so far:

Manganese zinc work for some people. stopped hairloss and increased libido with erections and everything

Resveratrol worked for some people increased libido even without taking DHT

Ella Ru increased baselines.

Pine pollen increased baseline

Copper magnesium potassium. works for some people.

Fasting , chelation. works for some people.

These protocol were all outlined and some people are trying them out. But others like Belikewater asking about progesterone, when progesterone was already outlined many times as a cure for some cases. And constantly talking about 5 alpha 1 with zero ability to increase it. Since it can only be increased as a feedback loop.

CD nuts protocol if you rotate estrogenic herbs you will be cured. but might as well just take resveratrol and be done with it

 

[BeLikeWater]

I also want to say that we are all running around and around with to many theories....
I think we should make order and hereby is my suggestion after we discusses different theorical possibilities:

1) All of us should take blood and hair tests
2)Compare them each other to understand if we all match with gbold's theory
3)Try to make get out protocols from what the tests are

In my own opinion we could be more organized if we really want to find out something based on real data.. Gbold already put out his theory, but put out also different potential protocols based on his own theory and not on real data coming from our analysis..
I feel we are loosing time talking and talking and trying things just randomly and without real data under our hands.

We should organize a deadline where all of us should get blood/hair thests and then from that data start to discuss it.

I know it is not simple to organize a straight work to collaborate all together but this is the way we should act if we want to get somewhere, otherwise we are endind up to become as Propeciahelp or other forums..just talking.

I think gbolduev should be the director and should suggest us to collect analysis. we should all have the same analisys to check the differences what is similar to get to a common point so to esclude useless protocols or theories.

My 2 cents, but I feel we are not going nowhere since people (as me) we almost know what we are talking about.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO IS KIND OF CDNUTS FORUM, WHERE PEOPLE IS DIRECTED TO TRY A PROTOCOL, AND THAT'S THE WAY TO RUN, NOT GOING AROUND WITH NO CLUE.

Can we do it?

Totaly agree on this, people think Gbold is very good but he and his followers doesnt follow scientific method, but its good to have new theories, count me on that.

Scientific method? What are you talking about? You constanly go off the info from Melganci. I am going off my own tests.
I am totally cured .

You seem to miss that metabolites and regulations dont depend on 5 alpha and depend on other systems like cortisol and gaba system regulation . that is why it does not go back up. on it own. And that is why no matter what you do, you will not be able to put it back on . the only way ON is by increasing estrogen singaling.

LIbido goes up right away when estrogen goes up. That is why estrogen plus DHT -= working libido instant

Now you have to figure out how to increase estrogen . And it is not done by taking estrogen.


Take resveratrol and increase estrogen signaling. and you will see what I am talking about.

You seem to constanly look at 5 alpha metabolites. 5 alpha is closed for a reason. I explained to you why. And to open 5 alpha, you need to increase estrogen signaling. Otherwise you will not open it up.


It is silly to look at 5 alpha metabolites and just think how to increase 5 alpha 1 or 2. It is not about that. It is about . how to fix a system which does not allow 5 alpha to go back on.

Melcangi made clear there is somethingngoing very bad with our 5ar1 metabolites on our CNS, that was good news. For example allopregnenalonone was underdetection limit <0.25 when control was 3 that means we have near no allopregnenanolone.

If you are sure what you are doing go for it, it will be a blessing for pfs sufferers of 5++ years like me.

 

[Helen]

WUF

for you case, why dont you just jump on resveratrol and stay on it for a little while. You obviously have high free copper, which does not allow you to go back on. Since copper should never be taken without potassium and b2.

 

[Helen]

Totaly agree on this, people think Gbold is very good but he and his followers doesnt follow scientific method, but its good to have new theories, count me on that.

Scientific method? What are you talking about? You constanly go off the info from Melganci. I am going off my own tests.
I am totally cured .

You seem to miss that metabolites and regulations dont depend on 5 alpha and depend on other systems like cortisol and gaba system regulation . that is why it does not go back up. on it own. And that is why no matter what you do, you will not be able to put it back on . the only way ON is by increasing estrogen singaling.

LIbido goes up right away when estrogen goes up. That is why estrogen plus DHT -= working libido instant

Now you have to figure out how to increase estrogen . And it is not done by taking estrogen.


Take resveratrol and increase estrogen signaling. and you will see what I am talking about.

You seem to constanly look at 5 alpha metabolites. 5 alpha is closed for a reason. I explained to you why. And to open 5 alpha, you need to increase estrogen signaling. Otherwise you will not open it up.


It is silly to look at 5 alpha metabolites and just think how to increase 5 alpha 1 or 2. It is not about that. It is about . how to fix a system which does not allow 5 alpha to go back on.

Melcangi made clear there is somethingngoing very bad with our 5ar1 metabolites on our CNS, that was good news. For example allopregnenalonone was underdetection limit <0.25 when control was 3 that means we have near no allopregnenanolone.

If you are sure what you are doing go for it, it will be a blessing for pfs sufferers of 5++ years like me.

It is obvious that metabolites would be down. WE all know this from the wiki on finasteride . Dont even have to test it. Same things are written even of Depo Provera and were written for ages.

Metabolites down is a given here, no one is arguing it. Increasing 5 alpha is done by a feed back loop. that is what I am saying.

And this is done thru estrogen signaling.

that is why for some people copper helps. And for others resveratrol helps.

 

[BeLikeWater]

Scientific method? What are you talking about? You constanly go off the info from Melganci. I am going off my own tests.
I am totally cured .

You seem to miss that metabolites and regulations dont depend on 5 alpha and depend on other systems like cortisol and gaba system regulation . that is why it does not go back up. on it own. And that is why no matter what you do, you will not be able to put it back on . the only way ON is by increasing estrogen singaling.

LIbido goes up right away when estrogen goes up. That is why estrogen plus DHT -= working libido instant

Now you have to figure out how to increase estrogen . And it is not done by taking estrogen.


Take resveratrol and increase estrogen signaling. and you will see what I am talking about.

You seem to constanly look at 5 alpha metabolites. 5 alpha is closed for a reason. I explained to you why. And to open 5 alpha, you need to increase estrogen signaling. Otherwise you will not open it up.


It is silly to look at 5 alpha metabolites and just think how to increase 5 alpha 1 or 2. It is not about that. It is about . how to fix a system which does not allow 5 alpha to go back on.

Melcangi made clear there is somethingngoing very bad with our 5ar1 metabolites on our CNS, that was good news. For example allopregnenalonone was underdetection limit <0.25 when control was 3 that means we have near no allopregnenanolone.

If you are sure what you are doing go for it, it will be a blessing for pfs sufferers of 5++ years like me.

It is obvious that metabolites would be down. WE all know this from the wiki on finasteride . Dont even have to test it. Same things are written even of Depo Provera and were written for ages.

Thats not true at all, thats why Im a but suspocious. The first time 5ar metabolites were measured in CNS of PFS users where in Dr Melcangi study.

 

[Helen]

Melcangi made clear there is somethingngoing very bad with our 5ar1 metabolites on our CNS, that was good news. For example allopregnenalonone was underdetection limit <0.25 when control was 3 that means we have near no allopregnenanolone.

If you are sure what you are doing go for it, it will be a blessing for pfs sufferers of 5++ years like me.

It is obvious that metabolites would be down. WE all know this from the wiki on finasteride . Dont even have to test it. Same things are written even of Depo Provera and were written for ages.

Thats not true at all, thats why Im a but suspocious. The first time 5ar metabolites were measured in CNS of PFS users where in Dr Melcangi study.

No clue why you say that. I researched depo provera 7 years ago. and metabolites were low there also since it inhibits 3a HSD

 

[BeLikeWater]

I dont knoe what is Depo provera. I repeat the same, the first study that declared that PFS patientes had 5ar metabolites on very low ratios compared to controls was in Dr. Melcangi study, if you have another study pointing to the contrary in open to see it.