Brainstorming & Ideas (PFS - Gbol)

Namelk

Well-Known Member
Messages
107
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r>Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.<br/>
<br/>
<MENTION><s>[mention]</s>gbolduev<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION> <MENTION><s>[mention]</s>TubZy<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION> <MENTION><s>[mention]</s>namaste<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION></r>
 

Snell1234

Well-Known Member
Messages
112
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="P_stashio" post_id="1596" time="1508184792" user_id="148"><s>
P_stashio post_id=1596 time=1508184792 user_id=148 said:
</s>
Yah how do you figure out if your receptors are agonized or antagonized?<br/>
<br/>
Cheers
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Blood test for progesterone is probably the first step. A hair test can be a guide too. Depending on what treatments you have done, it can sometimes be hard to determine which one you are.</r>
 

jacknap

Well-Known Member
Messages
463
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="namaste" post_id="13" time="1507080776" user_id="50"><s>
namaste post_id=13 time=1507080776 user_id=50 said:
</s>
For the past few months, the user gbolduev has been discussing his theory on PFS over at the Ray Peat forum. Due to issues with moderation we thought it’d be best if the discussion was moved over here. This theory might also apply to other syndromes such as PSSD and post-Accutane, so stay tuned if you suffer from those.<br/>
<br/>
Gbolduev has stated that drugs like finasteride act as a progestin in the body; meaning, they bind to progesterone receptors. This has many downstream effects, most notably on 3BHSD and many other enzymes (5ar), hormones (estradiol, cortisol, DHT), and minerals (potassium). Eventually, the body gets thrown into a chronic state of imbalance from which it is hard to recover.<br/>
<br/>
The thought is that some people suffer from agonized prog receptors, while others suffer from antagonized receptors. Here are a few treatment protocols that were suggested for each case:<br/>
<br/>
Case #1 – agonized receptors<br/>
1) Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 weeks after start, begin taking zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E<br/>
*can substitute enclompihene for clomiphene at half the dose<br/>
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well<br/>
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute<br/>
2) Progesterone 50-400mg ED for 1 week w/ calorie restriction; then start on zinc + NAD<br/>
3) Magnesium 1000mg + B6 100-200mg + NAD 2000mg + zinc 100-200mg<br/>
4) Methylation using Thorne Multi-Vitamin Elite<br/>
5) Thyroid hormone + zinc + NAD<br/>
<br/>
Case #2 – antagonized receptors<br/>
1) Copper 10mg ED; after 3 weeks add in zinc + NAD + magnesium + manganese + B6<br/>
2) High-dose manganese + co-factors<br/>
3) Estradiol + DHT<br/>
4) Andro + relora + licorice root<br/>
5) Pine pollen + relora + licorice root<br/>
6) Pine pollen + relora + nettle<br/>
<br/>
There are ongoing trials with RU486 taking place. Others have tried fasting, methylation, pine pollen, and Ella (another anti-progestin) with good results. If you are unsure of which “case” you might fit into or have any questions in general, please post here. There are many people willing to help!
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I'm currently doing cdnuts protocol. I have super high cortisol. (at least I did in june when I got bloods. Still got the symptoms of it though. Puffy face and random wakes at night. (Though the wakes have improved)<br/>
<br/>
is relora a safe thing to take? From my research it just lowers cortisol and raises dhea and test naturally?<br/>
<br/>
@tubzy @gbolduev @ihatefin</r>
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><URL url="http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full">http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full</URL><br/>
<br/>
Study this. This study basically connects all the dots.</r>
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="jacknap" post_id="1759" time="1508297665" user_id="82"><s>
jacknap post_id=1759 time=1508297665 user_id=82 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="namaste" post_id="13" time="1507080776" user_id="50"><s>
namaste post_id=13 time=1507080776 user_id=50 said:
</s>
For the past few months, the user gbolduev has been discussing his theory on PFS over at the Ray Peat forum. Due to issues with moderation we thought it’d be best if the discussion was moved over here. This theory might also apply to other syndromes such as PSSD and post-Accutane, so stay tuned if you suffer from those.<br/>
<br/>
Gbolduev has stated that drugs like finasteride act as a progestin in the body; meaning, they bind to progesterone receptors. This has many downstream effects, most notably on 3BHSD and many other enzymes (5ar), hormones (estradiol, cortisol, DHT), and minerals (potassium). Eventually, the body gets thrown into a chronic state of imbalance from which it is hard to recover.<br/>
<br/>
The thought is that some people suffer from agonized prog receptors, while others suffer from antagonized receptors. Here are a few treatment protocols that were suggested for each case:<br/>
<br/>
Case #1 – agonized receptors<br/>
1) Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 weeks after start, begin taking zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E<br/>
*can substitute enclompihene for clomiphene at half the dose<br/>
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well<br/>
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute<br/>
2) Progesterone 50-400mg ED for 1 week w/ calorie restriction; then start on zinc + NAD<br/>
3) Magnesium 1000mg + B6 100-200mg + NAD 2000mg + zinc 100-200mg<br/>
4) Methylation using Thorne Multi-Vitamin Elite<br/>
5) Thyroid hormone + zinc + NAD<br/>
<br/>
Case #2 – antagonized receptors<br/>
1) Copper 10mg ED; after 3 weeks add in zinc + NAD + magnesium + manganese + B6<br/>
2) High-dose manganese + co-factors<br/>
3) Estradiol + DHT<br/>
4) Andro + relora + licorice root<br/>
5) Pine pollen + relora + licorice root<br/>
6) Pine pollen + relora + nettle<br/>
<br/>
There are ongoing trials with RU486 taking place. Others have tried fasting, methylation, pine pollen, and Ella (another anti-progestin) with good results. If you are unsure of which “case” you might fit into or have any questions in general, please post here. There are many people willing to help!
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I'm currently doing cdnuts protocol. I have super high cortisol. (at least I did in june when I got bloods. Still got the symptoms of it though. Puffy face and random wakes at night. (Though the wakes have improved)<br/>
<br/>
is relora a safe thing to take? From my research it just lowers cortisol and raises dhea and test naturally?<br/>
<br/>
@tubzy @gbolduev @ihatefin
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

This stuff is really stretching me at the moment and i've been focusing on minerals rather than hormones and these supplements, but heres my understanding thus far: <br/>
<br/>
Potassium correlates with cortisol. If you have super high potassium, then you have high cortisol. <br/>
<MENTION><s>[mention]</s>Orion<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION> can you confirm you have high cortisol? I saw in your hair test your potassium was high. Dunno if you've done a cortisol test before or not?<br/>
<br/>
If this is the case, I think you might fit into case #1 and instead maybe you should try those protocols. Orion is doing fasting + progresterone I believe. <br/>
<br/>
My hair test shows low potassium, so I want to raise it (and thus raise cortisol). I know relora says that it lowers cortisol, but this is supposedly because it 'blocks' it. Gbolduev always say if you want to increase something, block it. Then on the snap back it will be higher with more sensitive receptors. <br/>
<br/>
I'm actually interested in trying the pine pollen + relora + licorice root idea myself. I don't like the idea of taking any more hormones or expensive drugs, but those 3 seem like herbs. <br/>
<br/>
BTW can anyone explain this experience using Gbolduev point of view? I was on 3 rounds of accutane ending in 2008. I've often felt tired / achy / 'not much fight' (hard to articulate this) / dry eyes but once when i first tried high dose vitamin A aka Ray Peat idea, I felt like superman. But it only lasted about a week. I played tennis on this day, and I felt like: "Come at me bro". I was a beast, able to run hard and recover instantly. Since then i've done exercises etc to injury proof myself, but my cardio vascular and general energy and alertness hasn't felt the same. I feel like an old man comparative to that experience. Wow, that was an insane feeling. Literally feeling like a beast. I wonder if everyone else feels like that and i'm just being robbed from f'd up progesterone receptors?<br/>
<br/>
Maybe the vitamin A gave me the whole "feel good now / actually feel worse in the long run" situation, but i really needed something like licorice root to make me feel crap now / feel good in the long run. Hmmm.</r>
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
Messages
879
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="1944" time="1508414895" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=1944 time=1508414895 user_id=66 said:
</s>
Potassium correlates with cortisol. If you have super high potassium, then you have high cortisol. <br/>
@Orion can you confirm you have high cortisol? I saw in your hair test your potassium was high. Dunno if you've done a cortisol test before or not?<br/>
<br/>
If this is the case, I think you might fit into case #1 and instead maybe you should try those protocols. Orion is doing fasting + progresterone I believe. <br/>

<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I tested for normal levels of cortisol, doing a 24hr saliva test.<br/>
<br/>
I am on day 4 now of my attempted 40day Breuss fast, 300mg Prog yesterday and 300mg today(Fri/sat will have 300mg each as well). Changes in skin texture and quality is really dramatic.<br/>
<br/>
Here are most of the gbolduev quotes relating to potassium/cortisol/progesterone.<br/>
<br/>
======<br/>
Progesterone receptors depend on Potassium inside of the cell. So, if Potassium is high in the cell, receptors get downregulated.<br/>
So, anything that puts Potassium in the cell will downregulate Progesterone receptors. I guess Potassium bicarbonate will downregulate the receptors, but then to start up the system you will need to take Zinc with a lot of HCL to get Potassium out of the cell to jump start 3 beta HSD<br/>
<br/>
If body needs Potassium it upregulates 3 beta HSD. (reason for the hairloss in the first place). Potassium makes the cell sensitive to thyroid hormone, without Potassium in the cell, no cellular CO2, hairloss. Nothing to do with DHT.<br/>
<br/>
Also, you can get propecia symptoms from excessive masturbation. When you do that your Zinc levels are kept low for a while and your 3 beta HSD (Zinc dependent) and NAD is low for a while. This upregulates your Progesterone receptors almost identical to propecia and you crash with POIS syndrome.<br/>
<br/>
Therefore, fasting helps this syndrome. fasting for 30-40 days will downregulate Progesterone receptors since body will need tons of Cortisol while you are fasting.<br/>
<br/>
Cortisol also makes the cell sensitive to thyroid. So if stressed your temps go up not down. Cortisol raises potassium in the cell, zinc raises potassium in the cell for slow oxidizers. For fast it is the opposite zinc lowers potassium.<br/>
<br/>
That is why if you are deficient in zinc your cortisol will be upped to raise potassium in the cell instead of zinc. and that is why when you take zinc, it lowers cortisol. Cortisol supports thyroid in this case, and to lower cortisol in this case is like turning off your thyroid<br/>
<br/>
calcium lowers thyroid that is why, zinc increases thyroid, copper lowers thyroid. Peat is totally wrong on this. Calcium lowers potassium in the cell zinc increases potassium. Fast oxidizers have high potassium in the cell and you called them not zinc deficient. Potassium is what makes the cell sensitive to the thyroid hormone. So, when you take calcium, potassium will go down in the cell, and thyroid will have to produce more and convert more t4 to t3. Peat says thyroid goes up, WRONG.<br/>
<br/>
If your thyroid is high and potassium is higher than calcium in the cell then body will use ceruloplasmin to cap off the thyroid, since copper same as calcium lower potassium in the cell. that is why for fast oxidizers taking thyroid will move ceruloplasmin. Copper is there to lower thyroid. To cap it off. SO when thyroid goes up copper will be raised to try to cap it. But if you have adrenal problems thyroid will be turned off with turning off conversion of T4 to T3<br/>
<br/>
Progesterone always goes into aldosterone and cortisol pathway)))) it is made for that reason. I said that if you give progesterone it will raise cortisol at first then it will lower it, if you needed cortisol spike. If you need cortisol at a constant rate, progesterone will raise cortisol. Don’t forget progesterone increases potassium in the cell. Cortisol rises with potassium. That is why to raise cortisol people can use potassium supplements.<br/>
<br/>
Without potassium, you can’t make insulin. Also without ionized calcium you can’t release insulin. For calcium to stay ionized you need to have magnesium. Without magnesium, your potassium will go down, since aldosterone will stay sky high.<br/>
<br/>
Potassium goes in the cell when the venous blood is more alkaline. Thus, in alkalosis potassium goes into the cell. This potassium is a receptor of a thyroid hormones and increases metabolism which increases CO2. Thus, when you increase ventilation this causes the venous blood become more alkaline and this causes potassium go into the cell, increasing your metabolism<br/>
<br/>
Just understand in alkalosis, potassium goes inside of the cell this increases metabolism, in acidosis potassium goes outside of the cell, it decreases metabolism. It is very obvious and logical, since metabolism increases acidity by creating CO2.<br/>
So, if you are more acidic then body will want to lower metabolism to decrease production of CO2. and if you more alkaline body will want to increase metabolism to increase production of CO2.<br/>
<br/>
In case of potassium deficiency progesterone receptors will be upregulated and progesterone level will be up. <br/>
Progesterone increases potassium. potassium receives thyroid hormones. Potassium goes too high, thyroid gets downregulated since less of it needed<br/>
<br/>
Prolactin regulates calcium. Zinc lowers copper, this lowers estrogen and this causes prolactin to decrease. Zinc increases progesterone.<br/>
<br/>
Progesterone regulated potassium, potassium regulates aldosterone sensitivity. Estrogen regulates aldosterone. So basically, if you screw up your progesterone somehow this will affect your aldosterone sensitivity also. And this will not allow estrogen nor DHT to work.<br/>
<br/>
<B><s></s>Accutane causes increased progesterone. So, in some cases accutane will cause progesterone insensitivity.<e></e></B><br/>
<br/>
Also, I wanted to point out, it seems depo provera effects MR receptors also very strongly. And I think this is where licorice comes into play. Estrogen raises sodium in the cell. So, if sodium is already high, estrogen can’t become sensitive. Licorice lowers aldosterone sensitivity and when you get off, sodium actually falls and estrogen is raised which makes DHT sensitive<br/>
<br/>
antagonizing or agonizing progesterone can do the same thing. Since progesterone effects potassium. And if potassium is high aldosterone becomes supersensitive and if potassium is low aldosterone becomes super insensitive. So, you can say also that progesterone screws up, effects aldosterone sensitivity afterwards which does not allow DHT to work. I basically outline this connection in the theory before. But I think we need to concentrate on this also.<br/>
<br/>
there could be too cases here as I said before. If he has high potassium in the blood. and low insulin. means zinc deficiency is likely. since zinc is what will make insulin. If he had low insulin and low potassium, that is understandable.<br/>
<br/>
If potassium is low in the cell, usually you have high progesterone. If potassium is high low progesterone. or you can have simply low progesterone on its own since zinc is deficient and body can’t make insulin. and this stops from producing progesterone, since progesterone will require sugar in the cell, but if there is no insulin, then no sugar.</r>
 

wuf

Well-Known Member
Messages
880
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r>Ok guys, I want to give you a little update about an old contact/friend coming out from my father..<br/>
This man is a scientist/biologist, he just wrote me and will seriously start to study my personal case.<br/>
I will suggest him <MENTION><s>[mention]</s>gbolduev<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION> theory and see what he thinks...he told me he has cured different people from different illness that doctors did not find the cause and the problem...but the good news is that this man is interested into looking seriously on what is going on, and believe me...I met him one time many years ago, my father told me he is one of the most important scientist and he is travelling around the world to give lessons all around the globe.<br/>
I will update you all just after what he will tell me about my case.<br/>
Dear god, I hope that you can save me.</r>
 

aztec

Well-Known Member
Messages
264
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><MENTION><s>[mention]</s>wuf<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION> it would be awesome if that doctor friend of your father can add his input to the forum. Invite him over so the healing revolution can continue stronger than ever. Looking forward to hearing how he helps your case.</r>
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="1938" time="1508408015" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=1938 time=1508408015 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<URL url="http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full">http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full</URL><br/>
<br/>
Study this. This study basically connects all the dots.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Interesting study. <br/>
<br/>
Hyperglycemia (eventually frank diabetes)= increased progesterone levels = (on the hair test) a Ca / Mg ratio of under 7 (7 being optimal - anything under indicating a spectrum of hyperglycemia)<br/>
<br/>
So hypoglycemia = decreased progesterone levels = Ca / Mg ratio over 7 (mine is 25.33 - off the chart high, indicating severe hypoglycemia, perhaps severely low progesterone levels???)</r>
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
Messages
879
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="1976" time="1508424009" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=1976 time=1508424009 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="1938" time="1508408015" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=1938 time=1508408015 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<URL url="http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full">http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full</URL><br/>
<br/>
Study this. This study basically connects all the dots.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Interesting study. <br/>
<br/>
Hyperglycemia (eventually frank diabetes)= increased progesterone levels = (on the hair test) a Ca / Mg ratio of under 7 (7 being optimal - anything under indicating a spectrum of hyperglycemia)<br/>
<br/>
So hypoglycemia = decreased progesterone levels = Ca / Mg ratio over 7 (mine is 25.33 - off the chart high, indicating severe hypoglycemia, perhaps severely low progesterone levels???)
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Seems to somewhat coincide with my hair tests, high K, low progesterone, and Ca/Mg right at 7. So many variables....</r>
 

wuf

Well-Known Member
Messages
880
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="aztec" post_id="1975" time="1508423984" user_id="52"><s>
aztec post_id=1975 time=1508423984 user_id=52 said:
</s>
@wuf it would be awesome if that doctor friend of your father can add his input to the forum. Invite him over so the healing revolution can continue stronger than ever. Looking forward to hearing how he helps your case.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

He asked me to send him my labs etc...he will study the case... after that I can discuss to jump over here if he is interested to.</r>
 

aztec

Well-Known Member
Messages
264
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><MENTION><s>[mention]</s>wuf<e>[/mention]</e></MENTION> sounds good! Keep us updated and hopefully he can join us soon.</r>
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="Orion" post_id="1977" time="1508424409" user_id="56"><s>
Orion post_id=1977 time=1508424409 user_id=56 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="1976" time="1508424009" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=1976 time=1508424009 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="gbolduev" post_id="1938" time="1508408015" user_id="90"><s>
gbolduev post_id=1938 time=1508408015 user_id=90 said:
</s>
<URL url="http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full">http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full</URL><br/>
<br/>
Study this. This study basically connects all the dots.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Interesting study. <br/>
<br/>
Hyperglycemia (eventually frank diabetes)= increased progesterone levels = (on the hair test) a Ca / Mg ratio of under 7 (7 being optimal - anything under indicating a spectrum of hyperglycemia)<br/>
<br/>
So hypoglycemia = decreased progesterone levels = Ca / Mg ratio over 7 (mine is 25.33 - off the chart high, indicating severe hypoglycemia, perhaps severely low progesterone levels???)
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Seems to somewhat coincide with my hair tests, high K, low progesterone, and Ca/Mg right at 7. So many variables....
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Ahhhhhhh. True. This is driving me nuts.</r>
 

jacknap

Well-Known Member
Messages
463
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="1944" time="1508414895" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=1944 time=1508414895 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="jacknap" post_id="1759" time="1508297665" user_id="82"><s>
jacknap post_id=1759 time=1508297665 user_id=82 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="namaste" post_id="13" time="1507080776" user_id="50"><s>
namaste post_id=13 time=1507080776 user_id=50 said:
</s>
For the past few months, the user gbolduev has been discussing his theory on PFS over at the Ray Peat forum. Due to issues with moderation we thought it’d be best if the discussion was moved over here. This theory might also apply to other syndromes such as PSSD and post-Accutane, so stay tuned if you suffer from those.<br/>
<br/>
Gbolduev has stated that drugs like finasteride act as a progestin in the body; meaning, they bind to progesterone receptors. This has many downstream effects, most notably on 3BHSD and many other enzymes (5ar), hormones (estradiol, cortisol, DHT), and minerals (potassium). Eventually, the body gets thrown into a chronic state of imbalance from which it is hard to recover.<br/>
<br/>
The thought is that some people suffer from agonized prog receptors, while others suffer from antagonized receptors. Here are a few treatment protocols that were suggested for each case:<br/>
<br/>
Case #1 – agonized receptors<br/>
1) Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 weeks after start, begin taking zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E<br/>
*can substitute enclompihene for clomiphene at half the dose<br/>
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well<br/>
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute<br/>
2) Progesterone 50-400mg ED for 1 week w/ calorie restriction; then start on zinc + NAD<br/>
3) Magnesium 1000mg + B6 100-200mg + NAD 2000mg + zinc 100-200mg<br/>
4) Methylation using Thorne Multi-Vitamin Elite<br/>
5) Thyroid hormone + zinc + NAD<br/>
<br/>
Case #2 – antagonized receptors<br/>
1) Copper 10mg ED; after 3 weeks add in zinc + NAD + magnesium + manganese + B6<br/>
2) High-dose manganese + co-factors<br/>
3) Estradiol + DHT<br/>
4) Andro + relora + licorice root<br/>
5) Pine pollen + relora + licorice root<br/>
6) Pine pollen + relora + nettle<br/>
<br/>
There are ongoing trials with RU486 taking place. Others have tried fasting, methylation, pine pollen, and Ella (another anti-progestin) with good results. If you are unsure of which “case” you might fit into or have any questions in general, please post here. There are many people willing to help!
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I'm currently doing cdnuts protocol. I have super high cortisol. (at least I did in june when I got bloods. Still got the symptoms of it though. Puffy face and random wakes at night. (Though the wakes have improved)<br/>
<br/>
is relora a safe thing to take? From my research it just lowers cortisol and raises dhea and test naturally?<br/>
<br/>
@tubzy @gbolduev @ihatefin
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

This stuff is really stretching me at the moment and i've been focusing on minerals rather than hormones and these supplements, but heres my understanding thus far: <br/>
<br/>
Potassium correlates with cortisol. If you have super high potassium, then you have high cortisol. <br/>
@Orion can you confirm you have high cortisol? I saw in your hair test your potassium was high. Dunno if you've done a cortisol test before or not?<br/>
<br/>
If this is the case, I think you might fit into case #1 and instead maybe you should try those protocols. Orion is doing fasting + progresterone I believe. <br/>
<br/>
My hair test shows low potassium, so I want to raise it (and thus raise cortisol). I know relora says that it lowers cortisol, but this is supposedly because it 'blocks' it. Gbolduev always say if you want to increase something, block it. Then on the snap back it will be higher with more sensitive receptors. <br/>
<br/>
I'm actually interested in trying the pine pollen + relora + licorice root idea myself. I don't like the idea of taking any more hormones or expensive drugs, but those 3 seem like herbs. <br/>
<br/>
BTW can anyone explain this experience using Gbolduev point of view? I was on 3 rounds of accutane ending in 2008. I've often felt tired / achy / 'not much fight' (hard to articulate this) / dry eyes but once when i first tried high dose vitamin A aka Ray Peat idea, I felt like superman. But it only lasted about a week. I played tennis on this day, and I felt like: "Come at me bro". I was a beast, able to run hard and recover instantly. Since then i've done exercises etc to injury proof myself, but my cardio vascular and general energy and alertness hasn't felt the same. I feel like an old man comparative to that experience. Wow, that was an insane feeling. Literally feeling like a beast. I wonder if everyone else feels like that and i'm just being robbed from f'd up progesterone receptors?<br/>
<br/>
Maybe the vitamin A gave me the whole "feel good now / actually feel worse in the long run" situation, but i really needed something like licorice root to make me feel crap now / feel good in the long run. Hmmm.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

i've read that accutane can cause apoptosis in the pituitary gland. I just found out that you can actually supplement with pituitary glandular... adrenal glandulars are great for adrenals so I figure pituitary glandular might be just as beneficial.<br/>
<br/>
thoughts? @gbolduev</r>
 

Goose12

Well-Known Member
Messages
648
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="jacknap" post_id="1994" time="1508433396" user_id="82"><s>
jacknap post_id=1994 time=1508433396 user_id=82 said:
</s>
<br/>
i've read that accutane can cause apoptosis in the pituitary gland. I just found out that you can actually supplement with pituitary glandular... adrenal glandulars are great for adrenals so I figure pituitary glandular might be just as beneficial.<br/>
<br/>
thoughts? @gbolduev
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

I have taken pituitary glandular before. I don't know if it helped with my pfs but I got some interesting results. The first time I took it when I went to bed I woke up in the middle of the night and I could see all kinds of lights like static in the dark. When I closed my eyes it was like a light show with all kinds of geometric shapes, similar to when I have smoked pot in the past. After that when I take it I dream like crazy,all night long and very vivid.</r>
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2609" time="1508902708" user_id="2"><s>
TubZy post_id=2609 time=1508902708 user_id=2 said:
</s>
After some personal experience and looking at the logs, RU and ella are super super strong. I honestly think micro dosing may be the way to go now....
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Lol man. Holy shit. <br/>
<br/>
I took licorice root because it was just a herb and i didn't want to do anything hardcore. <br/>
I've just gotten over the flu, so i'm not sure if its because of the licorice root (so i'm gonna leave my log post update until saturday the last day of my 'snapback' for this cycle) but.....<br/>
<br/>
Even licorice root appears to be powerful stuff. I'm having adrenaline-like surges like crazy. When I stand up and move around a bit, my heart rate shoots up to 115 bpm. No more light headedness, thats for damn sure. After eating, it shoots up to 75-80 bpm. My scalp feels all warm and tingly. <br/>
<br/>
Before this my heart rate was often under 50 at rest. Usually around 55. On ray peat diet it seemed to be around 50-60. I even took t3 once to try to raise my heart rate, barely got it to 70. Now its at 75 if i'm just doing general work on a computer.<br/>
<br/>
Now it seems consistently at 60 at rest. It was 55 upon waking this morning COMPLETELY relaxed and motionless, but seems to spike higher and more easily.</r>
 

TubZy

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
2,591
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2615" time="1508905209" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=2615 time=1508905209 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2609" time="1508902708" user_id="2"><s>
TubZy post_id=2609 time=1508902708 user_id=2 said:
</s>
After some personal experience and looking at the logs, RU and ella are super super strong. I honestly think micro dosing may be the way to go now....
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Lol man. Holy shit. <br/>
<br/>
I took licorice root because it was just a herb and i didn't want to do anything hardcore. <br/>
I've just gotten over the flu, so i'm not sure if its because of the licorice root (so i'm gonna leave my log post update until saturday the last day of my 'snapback' for this cycle) but.....<br/>
<br/>
Even licorice root appears to be powerful stuff. I'm having adrenaline-like surges like crazy. When I stand up and move around a bit, my heart rate shoots up to 115 bpm. No more light headedness, thats for damn sure. After eating, it shoots up to 75-80 bpm. My scalp feels all warm and tingly. <br/>
<br/>
Before this my heart rate was often under 50 at rest. Usually around 55. On ray peat diet it seemed to be around 50-60. I even took t3 once to try to raise my heart rate, barely got it to 70. Now its at 75 if i'm just doing general work on a computer.<br/>
<br/>
Now it seems consistently at 60 at rest. It was 55 upon waking this morning COMPLETELY relaxed and motionless, but seems to spike higher and more easily.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Lol..are you doing the weekend only licorice root routine?</r>
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2621" time="1508909245" user_id="2"><s>
TubZy post_id=2621 time=1508909245 user_id=2 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2615" time="1508905209" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=2615 time=1508905209 user_id=66 said:
</s>
<QUOTE author="TubZy" post_id="2609" time="1508902708" user_id="2"><s>
TubZy post_id=2609 time=1508902708 user_id=2 said:
</s>
After some personal experience and looking at the logs, RU and ella are super super strong. I honestly think micro dosing may be the way to go now....
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Lol man. Holy shit. <br/>
<br/>
I took licorice root because it was just a herb and i didn't want to do anything hardcore. <br/>
I've just gotten over the flu, so i'm not sure if its because of the licorice root (so i'm gonna leave my log post update until saturday the last day of my 'snapback' for this cycle) but.....<br/>
<br/>
Even licorice root appears to be powerful stuff. I'm having adrenaline-like surges like crazy. When I stand up and move around a bit, my heart rate shoots up to 115 bpm. No more light headedness, thats for damn sure. After eating, it shoots up to 75-80 bpm. My scalp feels all warm and tingly. <br/>
<br/>
Before this my heart rate was often under 50 at rest. Usually around 55. On ray peat diet it seemed to be around 50-60. I even took t3 once to try to raise my heart rate, barely got it to 70. Now its at 75 if i'm just doing general work on a computer.<br/>
<br/>
Now it seems consistently at 60 at rest. It was 55 upon waking this morning COMPLETELY relaxed and motionless, but seems to spike higher and more easily.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Lol..are you doing the weekend only licorice root routine?
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

Yep. I did a teaspoon of licorice root powder in tea 3x sunday and monday, now is my second day off it.<br/>
<br/>
My dry eyes seem to be completely fixed already, in fact they almost feel too full of blood. Before i used to press at them a lot when they were dry, but maybe i was just trying to get more bloodflow into my eye balls.<br/>
<br/>
<br/>
Have you tried the licorice root yet tubzy? Id recommend lower doses to start with for sure. Next time i do it ill probably just do 1/4th teaspoon 3x a day for 2 days, then 5 days off. <br/>
<br/>
1/4th the dose lol</r>
 

Orion

Well-Known Member
Messages
879
Re: Gbold's Theory

<r><QUOTE author="m_arch" post_id="2622" time="1508910720" user_id="66"><s>
m_arch post_id=2622 time=1508910720 user_id=66 said:
</s>
My dry eyes seem to be completely fixed already, in fact they almost feel too full of blood. Before i used to press at them a lot when they were dry, but maybe i was just trying to get more bloodflow into my eye balls.
<e>
</e></QUOTE>

<br/>
Nice update! This was a main post symptom.</r>