Brainstorming & Ideas (PFS - Gbol)

jacknap

Well-Known Member
Messages
463
gbolduev post_id=4069 time=1510529214 user_id=90 said:
Shadow post_id=4065 time=1510526919 user_id=54 said:
@Jaxx my endo didnt even mentioned minerals. Even worse, when I talked about 3a-HSD with her, she replied me: "You have been studying! Even I dont know what this is."

Correct me if Im wrong @gbolduev but minerals are like the "low level programming language" of our bodies.

minerals are part of enzymes that regulate everything. So all imbalances are caused by minerals deficiencies or toxicities, Unless you have organic problems with some organ.

I am making a matrix of all interactions of all minerals and enzymes as a big system. LIke you feed one mineral and I see what it does to all systems .

That is why it never works for people when they take minerals, since they take one. and they unbalance others. Fix sexual problem cause diabetes.

thus minerals supplements or any supplements at all. should be taken for short term, and you should never take any supplements at all. Just eat and live healthy life.

If you do have bad habits, like smoking drinking etc, jerking off excessively , addictions. You need to learn how those addictions unbalance you and support that side..

This is why I will never agree with ray peat that everyone is the same. EVERY one is different and everyone needs to learn how to balance themselves

for andro protocol would taking thorne extra during/before/after be okay?

what does excessive sex do? as far as I know you lose zinc... anything else? (from ejaculation)
 

TubZy

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
2,591
For a lot of people confused about copper, here is some info about it from the Gbol quote thread from a while back.

http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14
So these are 2 cases. and 2 cures.


You don't concentrate on potassium. Taking potassium won't do anything but make it worse if you have low potassium. Progesterone gets sensitive when there is zero potassium. You should understand that or when their is high estrogen( which tanks potassium)

I was thinking yesterday about how to do it with minerals. I think copper with magnesium will work.



It is not a goal here to just get sensitive to DHT> LOL you can take estrogen and get sensitive to it tomorrow which I also suggested.

and copper with magnesium possibility
the fastest way would be to use some diuretic and get rid of bicarbonate. and then you will be progesterone sensitive.
You should have used copper to tank your potassium in the cell. This way your 5ar will be restored.


Finasteride is a progestin. it spike potassium HUGE in the cell and causes metabolic alkalosis. You fixed that with aspirin.

Unfortunatly alkalosis is not chloride sensitive or acid sensitive, you should have corrected it with copper and magnesium


One guy on PH got cured by Nandrolone after 6 years of no improvement.
yes, if he is constantly on it. Same if you go on propecia , you might recover.

So in other words, I should only be thinking about this in terms of decreasing 3 beta hsd to upregulate the progesterone receptors, decreasing 11 beta hsd to upregulate the cortisol receptors and then to try to find a way to upregulate 5ar?
Andro will convert to estrogen, and upregulate the 5 AR since estrogen upregulates DHT. Andro will downregulate 3 beta hsd which will upregulate progesterone and cortisol.

Same things you could do with copper. and magnesium I guess.

Andro is converted to dht by 3b hsd and 17b hsd. Any issues that could occur by tanking 17b hsd? Will it bounce back to normal upon cessation?

And pine pollen is mainly androsterone, with a bit of dhea, test and androstenedione (your one).
this is why you take pine pollen with 5 ar inhibitor. as I mentioned.


Same as copper, will act as a potassium lowering thing. That is why I said, you could probably use copper with magnesium , and copper and then all the cofactors later on. which I mentioned it in the cure.

Any acid lowers potassium , copper lowers potassium, calcium chloride lowers potassium, estrogen lowers potassium

this what turns on the thyroid. your t3 goes higher. since potassium is a receptor for the T3 in the cell


Insulin puts potassium in the cell, alkalosis puts potassium in the cell, magnesium puts potassium in the cell, zinc puts potassium in the cell.

glucosteroids cause alkalosis, which has tons of potassium in the cell.

So in alkalosis there is a always a problem and potassium in the cell, is put not by insulin, not by zinc, but by alkalosis. And people experience diabetes like symptoms and castration

Usually body can restore the balance pretty quickly, and I think the reason it takes so long here to get back to normal is alkalosis.

You are not far with MS here, since PFS causes copper biounavailability and deficiency. Most people will have low copper and low urine copper. the longer you have PFS the harder to reverse it, since copper deficiency is what responsible for demethylation.

If you take copper with methylfolate together , that is another possibility to get rid of it.

And it is in CNS. regulation is impaired there. Alkalosis does not let people get back into the balance. It takes years to get out of alkalosis. All people I tested had problems with it.

it has nothing to do with genes or any of that. it has to do that your copper is not available for one and alkalosis 2. Body is stuck.

Hairloss is the balance between progesterone and DHT. If you oppose estrogen with DHT, the higher your estrogen the higher DHT will go. This causes hairloss. this is why you use zinc plus manganese. What will happen when you use zinc plus manganese . You copper levels will fall. this will cause your estrogen lower, which will also decrease DHT. And if you had progesterone high at this moment you would get PFS. But you are taking manganese with zinc, so manganese won't allow your progesterone to go high since manganese inhibits 3 beta hsd. zinc induces it.
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
TubZy post_id=4138 time=1510642290 user_id=2 said:
For a lot of people confused about copper, here is some info about it from the Gbol quote thread from a while back.

http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14
So these are 2 cases. and 2 cures.


You don't concentrate on potassium. Taking potassium won't do anything but make it worse if you have low potassium. Progesterone gets sensitive when there is zero potassium. You should understand that or when their is high estrogen( which tanks potassium)

I was thinking yesterday about how to do it with minerals. I think copper with magnesium will work.



It is not a goal here to just get sensitive to DHT> LOL you can take estrogen and get sensitive to it tomorrow which I also suggested.

and copper with magnesium possibility
the fastest way would be to use some diuretic and get rid of bicarbonate. and then you will be progesterone sensitive.
You should have used copper to tank your potassium in the cell. This way your 5ar will be restored.


Finasteride is a progestin. it spike potassium HUGE in the cell and causes metabolic alkalosis. You fixed that with aspirin.

Unfortunatly alkalosis is not chloride sensitive or acid sensitive, you should have corrected it with copper and magnesium


One guy on PH got cured by Nandrolone after 6 years of no improvement.
yes, if he is constantly on it. Same if you go on propecia , you might recover.

So in other words, I should only be thinking about this in terms of decreasing 3 beta hsd to upregulate the progesterone receptors, decreasing 11 beta hsd to upregulate the cortisol receptors and then to try to find a way to upregulate 5ar?
Andro will convert to estrogen, and upregulate the 5 AR since estrogen upregulates DHT. Andro will downregulate 3 beta hsd which will upregulate progesterone and cortisol.

Same things you could do with copper. and magnesium I guess.

Andro is converted to dht by 3b hsd and 17b hsd. Any issues that could occur by tanking 17b hsd? Will it bounce back to normal upon cessation?

And pine pollen is mainly androsterone, with a bit of dhea, test and androstenedione (your one).
this is why you take pine pollen with 5 ar inhibitor. as I mentioned.


Same as copper, will act as a potassium lowering thing. That is why I said, you could probably use copper with magnesium , and copper and then all the cofactors later on. which I mentioned it in the cure.

Any acid lowers potassium , copper lowers potassium, calcium chloride lowers potassium, estrogen lowers potassium

this what turns on the thyroid. your t3 goes higher. since potassium is a receptor for the T3 in the cell


Insulin puts potassium in the cell, alkalosis puts potassium in the cell, magnesium puts potassium in the cell, zinc puts potassium in the cell.

glucosteroids cause alkalosis, which has tons of potassium in the cell.

So in alkalosis there is a always a problem and potassium in the cell, is put not by insulin, not by zinc, but by alkalosis. And people experience diabetes like symptoms and castration

Usually body can restore the balance pretty quickly, and I think the reason it takes so long here to get back to normal is alkalosis.

You are not far with MS here, since PFS causes copper biounavailability and deficiency. Most people will have low copper and low urine copper. the longer you have PFS the harder to reverse it, since copper deficiency is what responsible for demethylation.

If you take copper with methylfolate together , that is another possibility to get rid of it.

And it is in CNS. regulation is impaired there. Alkalosis does not let people get back into the balance. It takes years to get out of alkalosis. All people I tested had problems with it.

it has nothing to do with genes or any of that. it has to do that your copper is not available for one and alkalosis 2. Body is stuck.

Hairloss is the balance between progesterone and DHT. If you oppose estrogen with DHT, the higher your estrogen the higher DHT will go. This causes hairloss. this is why you use zinc plus manganese. What will happen when you use zinc plus manganese . You copper levels will fall. this will cause your estrogen lower, which will also decrease DHT. And if you had progesterone high at this moment you would get PFS. But you are taking manganese with zinc, so manganese won't allow your progesterone to go high since manganese inhibits 3 beta hsd. zinc induces it.
He's saying magnesium + copper + ace = cure for pfs (ace not even required, just speeds the process up)

Its weird tho. Magnesium puts potassium in the cell(raises it?). Copper lowers potassium(lowers in the cell)?
Arent these two things just cancelling each other out... or is it because of their effects on other minerals

Also;

WHY WOULD MAGNESIUM AND COPPER CAUSE BALDNESS? THE MAGNESIUM RAISES CELL POTASSIUM WHICH CAUSES HAIR GROWTH. THE COPPER SIMPLY RAISES ESTROGEN... ISNT THAT FINE? WHY WOULD RAISING ESTROGEN EFFECT THE BALANCE OF PROGESTERONE TO DHT? WOULDNT IT JUST INCREASE THEM IN BALANCE







Maybe a protocol would be something like this;
850mg mag
2mg copper

Everyday for 2 weeks

Followed by zinc 30mg and mang 10mg for 1 month (for hairloss people with slow oxidation )
 

wuf

Well-Known Member
Messages
880
m_arch post_id=4145 time=1510649274 user_id=66 said:
TubZy post_id=4138 time=1510642290 user_id=2 said:
For a lot of people confused about copper, here is some info about it from the Gbol quote thread from a while back.

http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14
So these are 2 cases. and 2 cures.


You don't concentrate on potassium. Taking potassium won't do anything but make it worse if you have low potassium. Progesterone gets sensitive when there is zero potassium. You should understand that or when their is high estrogen( which tanks potassium)

I was thinking yesterday about how to do it with minerals. I think copper with magnesium will work.



It is not a goal here to just get sensitive to DHT> LOL you can take estrogen and get sensitive to it tomorrow which I also suggested.

and copper with magnesium possibility
the fastest way would be to use some diuretic and get rid of bicarbonate. and then you will be progesterone sensitive.
You should have used copper to tank your potassium in the cell. This way your 5ar will be restored.


Finasteride is a progestin. it spike potassium HUGE in the cell and causes metabolic alkalosis. You fixed that with aspirin.

Unfortunatly alkalosis is not chloride sensitive or acid sensitive, you should have corrected it with copper and magnesium


One guy on PH got cured by Nandrolone after 6 years of no improvement.
yes, if he is constantly on it. Same if you go on propecia , you might recover.

So in other words, I should only be thinking about this in terms of decreasing 3 beta hsd to upregulate the progesterone receptors, decreasing 11 beta hsd to upregulate the cortisol receptors and then to try to find a way to upregulate 5ar?
Andro will convert to estrogen, and upregulate the 5 AR since estrogen upregulates DHT. Andro will downregulate 3 beta hsd which will upregulate progesterone and cortisol.

Same things you could do with copper. and magnesium I guess.

Andro is converted to dht by 3b hsd and 17b hsd. Any issues that could occur by tanking 17b hsd? Will it bounce back to normal upon cessation?

And pine pollen is mainly androsterone, with a bit of dhea, test and androstenedione (your one).
this is why you take pine pollen with 5 ar inhibitor. as I mentioned.


Same as copper, will act as a potassium lowering thing. That is why I said, you could probably use copper with magnesium , and copper and then all the cofactors later on. which I mentioned it in the cure.

Any acid lowers potassium , copper lowers potassium, calcium chloride lowers potassium, estrogen lowers potassium

this what turns on the thyroid. your t3 goes higher. since potassium is a receptor for the T3 in the cell


Insulin puts potassium in the cell, alkalosis puts potassium in the cell, magnesium puts potassium in the cell, zinc puts potassium in the cell.

glucosteroids cause alkalosis, which has tons of potassium in the cell.

So in alkalosis there is a always a problem and potassium in the cell, is put not by insulin, not by zinc, but by alkalosis. And people experience diabetes like symptoms and castration

Usually body can restore the balance pretty quickly, and I think the reason it takes so long here to get back to normal is alkalosis.

You are not far with MS here, since PFS causes copper biounavailability and deficiency. Most people will have low copper and low urine copper. the longer you have PFS the harder to reverse it, since copper deficiency is what responsible for demethylation.

If you take copper with methylfolate together , that is another possibility to get rid of it.

And it is in CNS. regulation is impaired there. Alkalosis does not let people get back into the balance. It takes years to get out of alkalosis. All people I tested had problems with it.

it has nothing to do with genes or any of that. it has to do that your copper is not available for one and alkalosis 2. Body is stuck.

Hairloss is the balance between progesterone and DHT. If you oppose estrogen with DHT, the higher your estrogen the higher DHT will go. This causes hairloss. this is why you use zinc plus manganese. What will happen when you use zinc plus manganese . You copper levels will fall. this will cause your estrogen lower, which will also decrease DHT. And if you had progesterone high at this moment you would get PFS. But you are taking manganese with zinc, so manganese won't allow your progesterone to go high since manganese inhibits 3 beta hsd. zinc induces it.
He's saying magnesium + copper + ace = cure for pfs (ace not even required, just speeds the process up)

Its weird tho. Magnesium puts potassium in the cell(raises it?). Copper lowers potassium(lowers in the cell)?
Arent these two things just cancelling each other out... or is it because of their effects on other minerals

Also;

WHY WOULD MAGNESIUM AND COPPER CAUSE BALDNESS? THE MAGNESIUM RAISES CELL POTASSIUM WHICH CAUSES HAIR GROWTH. THE COPPER SIMPLY RAISES ESTROGEN... ISNT THAT FINE? WHY WOULD RAISING ESTROGEN EFFECT THE BALANCE OF PROGESTERONE TO DHT? WOULDNT IT JUST INCREASE THEM IN BALANCE

If I am not wrong in PFS suffers, progesterone plays the role that estrogens should play..that's why DHT is not working.
Using copper, it seems to rising estrogens to let them working upon progesterone and that would let DHT to work again.
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
Maybe a protocol would be something like this;
850mg mag
2mg copper

Everyday for 2 weeks

Followed by zinc 30mg and mang 10mg for 1 month (for hairloss people with slow oxidation )
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
m_arch post_id=4145 time=1510649274 user_id=66 said:
TubZy post_id=4138 time=1510642290 user_id=2 said:
For a lot of people confused about copper, here is some info about it from the Gbol quote thread from a while back.

http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14
So these are 2 cases. and 2 cures.


You don't concentrate on potassium. Taking potassium won't do anything but make it worse if you have low potassium. Progesterone gets sensitive when there is zero potassium. You should understand that or when their is high estrogen( which tanks potassium)

I was thinking yesterday about how to do it with minerals. I think copper with magnesium will work.



It is not a goal here to just get sensitive to DHT> LOL you can take estrogen and get sensitive to it tomorrow which I also suggested.

and copper with magnesium possibility
the fastest way would be to use some diuretic and get rid of bicarbonate. and then you will be progesterone sensitive.
You should have used copper to tank your potassium in the cell. This way your 5ar will be restored.


Finasteride is a progestin. it spike potassium HUGE in the cell and causes metabolic alkalosis. You fixed that with aspirin.

Unfortunatly alkalosis is not chloride sensitive or acid sensitive, you should have corrected it with copper and magnesium


One guy on PH got cured by Nandrolone after 6 years of no improvement.
yes, if he is constantly on it. Same if you go on propecia , you might recover.

So in other words, I should only be thinking about this in terms of decreasing 3 beta hsd to upregulate the progesterone receptors, decreasing 11 beta hsd to upregulate the cortisol receptors and then to try to find a way to upregulate 5ar?
Andro will convert to estrogen, and upregulate the 5 AR since estrogen upregulates DHT. Andro will downregulate 3 beta hsd which will upregulate progesterone and cortisol.

Same things you could do with copper. and magnesium I guess.

Andro is converted to dht by 3b hsd and 17b hsd. Any issues that could occur by tanking 17b hsd? Will it bounce back to normal upon cessation?

And pine pollen is mainly androsterone, with a bit of dhea, test and androstenedione (your one).
this is why you take pine pollen with 5 ar inhibitor. as I mentioned.


Same as copper, will act as a potassium lowering thing. That is why I said, you could probably use copper with magnesium , and copper and then all the cofactors later on. which I mentioned it in the cure.

Any acid lowers potassium , copper lowers potassium, calcium chloride lowers potassium, estrogen lowers potassium

this what turns on the thyroid. your t3 goes higher. since potassium is a receptor for the T3 in the cell


Insulin puts potassium in the cell, alkalosis puts potassium in the cell, magnesium puts potassium in the cell, zinc puts potassium in the cell.

glucosteroids cause alkalosis, which has tons of potassium in the cell.

So in alkalosis there is a always a problem and potassium in the cell, is put not by insulin, not by zinc, but by alkalosis. And people experience diabetes like symptoms and castration

Usually body can restore the balance pretty quickly, and I think the reason it takes so long here to get back to normal is alkalosis.

You are not far with MS here, since PFS causes copper biounavailability and deficiency. Most people will have low copper and low urine copper. the longer you have PFS the harder to reverse it, since copper deficiency is what responsible for demethylation.

If you take copper with methylfolate together , that is another possibility to get rid of it.

And it is in CNS. regulation is impaired there. Alkalosis does not let people get back into the balance. It takes years to get out of alkalosis. All people I tested had problems with it.

it has nothing to do with genes or any of that. it has to do that your copper is not available for one and alkalosis 2. Body is stuck.

Hairloss is the balance between progesterone and DHT. If you oppose estrogen with DHT, the higher your estrogen the higher DHT will go. This causes hairloss. this is why you use zinc plus manganese. What will happen when you use zinc plus manganese . You copper levels will fall. this will cause your estrogen lower, which will also decrease DHT. And if you had progesterone high at this moment you would get PFS. But you are taking manganese with zinc, so manganese won't allow your progesterone to go high since manganese inhibits 3 beta hsd. zinc induces it.
He's saying magnesium + copper + ace = cure for pfs (ace not even required, just speeds the process up)

Its weird tho. Magnesium puts potassium in the cell(raises it?). Copper lowers potassium(lowers in the cell)?
Arent these two things just cancelling each other out... or is it because of their effects on other minerals

Also;

WHY WOULD MAGNESIUM AND COPPER CAUSE BALDNESS? THE MAGNESIUM RAISES CELL POTASSIUM WHICH CAUSES HAIR GROWTH. THE COPPER SIMPLY RAISES ESTROGEN... ISNT THAT FINE? WHY WOULD RAISING ESTROGEN EFFECT THE BALANCE OF PROGESTERONE TO DHT? WOULDNT IT JUST INCREASE THEM IN BALANCE







Maybe a protocol would be something like this;
850mg mag
2mg copper

Everyday for 2 weeks

Followed by zinc 30mg and mang 10mg for 1 month (for hairloss people with slow oxidation )



this is the protocol which was outlined. I am not sure why are you still thinking about it. just match JoeKool's protocol. Copper will decrease serotonin which will decrease ACTH. Which will decrease cortisol. When cortisol falls this will cause sodium to fall. Copper will increase progesterone even further thus we give magnesium and potassium which will lower progesterone by putting potassium in the cell. You dont cancel anything out. I know this is complicated , but this is how minerals work.

then later you can add manganese and zinc, plus b2 and iron and some methylation not to have a hairloss

this was outlined from the very beginning
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
It is so weird to me, that people still asking about protocol, since many are already taking it and outlined it. Plus also weird. why would people go clomid route. If I just tested this in the lab, I am going this mineral route.and fixed it within a week.
 

dante

Well-Known Member
Messages
70
gbolduev post_id=4153 time=1510653751 user_id=90 said:
this is the protocol which was outlined. I am not sure why are you still thinking about it. just match JoeKool's protocol. Copper will decrease serotonin which will decrease ACTH. Which will decrease cortisol. When cortisol falls this will cause sodium to fall. Copper will increase progesterone even further thus we give magnesium and potassium which will lower progesterone by putting potassium in the cell. You dont cancel anything out. I know this is complicated , but this is how minerals work.

then later you can add manganese and zinc, plus b2 and iron and some methylation not to have a hairloss

this was outlined from the very beginning
Wait ,i thought copper increased estrogen which will in turn will increase serotonin since estrogen and serotonin always go together (atleast that's what i learned at RPF),also estrogen negatively affects the feedback loop between cortisol and ACTH (that is in presence of estrogen, cortisol won't be able to effectively blunt down ACTH).
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
dante post_id=4159 time=1510655346 user_id=109 said:
gbolduev post_id=4153 time=1510653751 user_id=90 said:
this is the protocol which was outlined. I am not sure why are you still thinking about it. just match JoeKool's protocol. Copper will decrease serotonin which will decrease ACTH. Which will decrease cortisol. When cortisol falls this will cause sodium to fall. Copper will increase progesterone even further thus we give magnesium and potassium which will lower progesterone by putting potassium in the cell. You dont cancel anything out. I know this is complicated , but this is how minerals work.

then later you can add manganese and zinc, plus b2 and iron and some methylation not to have a hairloss

this was outlined from the very beginning
Wait ,i thought copper increased estrogen which will in turn will increase serotonin since estrogen and serotonin always go together (atleast that's what i learned at RPF),also estrogen negatively affects the feedback loop between cortisol and ACTH (that is in presence of estrogen, cortisol won't be able to effectively blunt down ACTH).


Copper is part of MAO A. same as b2. MAO A breaks down serotonin.

taken estrogen from the outside CHELATES COPPER< lowers it.

this is where ray peat community is weird. They dont understand that hormones in the body are doing exact opposite if taken from outside

All those studies are done with hormones taken from outside and wrong.
 

wuf

Well-Known Member
Messages
880
gbolduev post_id=4155 time=1510654131 user_id=90 said:
It is so weird to me, that people still asking about protocol, since many are already taking it and outlined it. Plus also weird. why would people go clomid route. If I just tested this in the lab, I am going this mineral route.and fixed it within a week.

We are hundreds followers over here.
I guess, maybe I am wrong. If people do not run the protocol it's because it's not that clear how to run it and we don't want to attempt a wrong one risking hurting even further.
So, as you said, maybe giving a final protocol with dosages could be a good idea.
 

tanedout

Well-Known Member
Messages
538
wuf post_id=4162 time=1510655702 user_id=65 said:
I guess, maybe I am wrong. If people do not run the protocol it's because it's not that clear how to run it and we don't want to attempt a wrong one risking hurting even further.
So, as you said, maybe giving a final protocol with dosages could be a good idea.

There is no exact protocol though is there, the idea is to work that out from the basic premise of what gbol has already said a number of times, and post up a log to say how you get on, and maybe tweak things a bit from there.

Scenes and JoeKool have already stated what they're taking, and what improvements they've got. Gbol has said he'll post up later this week about what he's been taking.

Others can either wait and see what looks good and try and replicate, or go with what people have tried so far.

Might be worth a Mineral Balancing section next to Logs and Hair Analysis maybe, then people can do logs in there?! Otherwise things just get lost in this, and other threads.
 

dante

Well-Known Member
Messages
70
gbolduev post_id=4161 time=1510655603 user_id=90 said:
taken estrogen from the outside CHELATES COPPER< lowers it.
Why does exogenous estrogen increase ceruloplasmin then (it mobilizes copper out of liver to other organs) ?
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
dante post_id=4164 time=1510656939 user_id=109 said:
gbolduev post_id=4161 time=1510655603 user_id=90 said:
taken estrogen from the outside CHELATES COPPER< lowers it.
Why does exogenous estrogen increase ceruloplasmin then (it mobilizes copper out of liver to other organs) ?

ceruloplasmin is used to transport copper into bile
 

gaivs

Member
Messages
40
gbolduev post_id=4153 time=1510653751 user_id=90 said:
m_arch post_id=4145 time=1510649274 user_id=66 said:
TubZy post_id=4138 time=1510642290 user_id=2 said:
For a lot of people confused about copper, here is some info about it from the Gbol quote thread from a while back.

http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14
He's saying magnesium + copper + ace = cure for pfs (ace not even required, just speeds the process up)

Its weird tho. Magnesium puts potassium in the cell(raises it?). Copper lowers potassium(lowers in the cell)?
Arent these two things just cancelling each other out... or is it because of their effects on other minerals

Also;

WHY WOULD MAGNESIUM AND COPPER CAUSE BALDNESS? THE MAGNESIUM RAISES CELL POTASSIUM WHICH CAUSES HAIR GROWTH. THE COPPER SIMPLY RAISES ESTROGEN... ISNT THAT FINE? WHY WOULD RAISING ESTROGEN EFFECT THE BALANCE OF PROGESTERONE TO DHT? WOULDNT IT JUST INCREASE THEM IN BALANCE







Maybe a protocol would be something like this;
850mg mag
2mg copper

Everyday for 2 weeks

Followed by zinc 30mg and mang 10mg for 1 month (for hairloss people with slow oxidation )



this is the protocol which was outlined. I am not sure why are you still thinking about it. just match JoeKool's protocol. Copper will decrease serotonin which will decrease ACTH. Which will decrease cortisol. When cortisol falls this will cause sodium to fall. Copper will increase progesterone even further thus we give magnesium and potassium which will lower progesterone by putting potassium in the cell. You dont cancel anything out. I know this is complicated , but this is how minerals work.

then later you can add manganese and zinc, plus b2 and iron and some methylation not to have a hairloss

this was outlined from the very beginning

Gbolduev, the problem is that what you said you did has differences with joekools protocol. You cured yourself in 1 week and joekool as far as we know is not cured yet. So your protocol is in theory better.

For example you take ace, you take zinc from the beginning, you said you take iron, b2 and calcium. If I understood joekools protocol he didnt take any of those things.

So i think it is natural that people want to know what you did exactly and try that. Maybe you think that your exact protocol is not universal, it is not for everyone?
 

dante

Well-Known Member
Messages
70
gbolduev post_id=4165 time=1510656994 user_id=90 said:
dante post_id=4164 time=1510656939 user_id=109 said:
gbolduev post_id=4161 time=1510655603 user_id=90 said:
taken estrogen from the outside CHELATES COPPER< lowers it.
Why does exogenous estrogen increase ceruloplasmin then (it mobilizes copper out of liver to other organs) ?

ceruloplasmin is used to transport copper into bile
Well, there are some cases where long term estrogen therapy/oral contraceptive caused copper corneal depositions (kind of like wilson's disease where there is a lot of biounavailable copper),so not seeing any chelation here.
http://journals.lww.com/optvissci/Abstract/2008/09000/Corneal_Copper_Deposition_Secondary_to_Oral.9.aspx
 

Helen

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Messages
5,415
estrogen will make copper biounavailable. And body will try to get rid of it. If the rate the body doing this is slow, then of course it will be deposited elsewhere. It is free copper that is causing this.

Estrogen will lower copper in the enzymes. That is chelation.

things like resveratrol( estrogen) will cause copper deficiency. With potentially high free copper, since ceruloplasmin can get overloaded
 

Aleksandr

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,285
gbolduev post_id=4153 time=1510653751 user_id=90 said:
m_arch post_id=4145 time=1510649274 user_id=66 said:
TubZy post_id=4138 time=1510642290 user_id=2 said:
For a lot of people confused about copper, here is some info about it from the Gbol quote thread from a while back.

http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14
He's saying magnesium + copper + ace = cure for pfs (ace not even required, just speeds the process up)

Its weird tho. Magnesium puts potassium in the cell(raises it?). Copper lowers potassium(lowers in the cell)?
Arent these two things just cancelling each other out... or is it because of their effects on other minerals

Also;

WHY WOULD MAGNESIUM AND COPPER CAUSE BALDNESS? THE MAGNESIUM RAISES CELL POTASSIUM WHICH CAUSES HAIR GROWTH. THE COPPER SIMPLY RAISES ESTROGEN... ISNT THAT FINE? WHY WOULD RAISING ESTROGEN EFFECT THE BALANCE OF PROGESTERONE TO DHT? WOULDNT IT JUST INCREASE THEM IN BALANCE







Maybe a protocol would be something like this;
850mg mag
2mg copper

Everyday for 2 weeks

Followed by zinc 30mg and mang 10mg for 1 month (for hairloss people with slow oxidation )



this is the protocol which was outlined. I am not sure why are you still thinking about it. just match JoeKool's protocol. Copper will decrease serotonin which will decrease ACTH. Which will decrease cortisol. When cortisol falls this will cause sodium to fall. Copper will increase progesterone even further thus we give magnesium and potassium which will lower progesterone by putting potassium in the cell. You dont cancel anything out. I know this is complicated , but this is how minerals work.

then later you can add manganese and zinc, plus b2 and iron and some methylation not to have a hairloss

this was outlined from the very beginning

Ok so the protocol i outlined is missing potassium. How much potassium a day do you suggest supplementing? Some bottles suggest around 400mg (but also some magnesium bottles only suggest 100mg and im sayig 850 sounds more like it)
 

wuf

Well-Known Member
Messages
880
m_arch post_id=4175 time=1510659536 user_id=66 said:
gbolduev post_id=4153 time=1510653751 user_id=90 said:
m_arch post_id=4145 time=1510649274 user_id=66 said:
He's saying magnesium + copper + ace = cure for pfs (ace not even required, just speeds the process up)

Its weird tho. Magnesium puts potassium in the cell(raises it?). Copper lowers potassium(lowers in the cell)?
Arent these two things just cancelling each other out... or is it because of their effects on other minerals

Also;

WHY WOULD MAGNESIUM AND COPPER CAUSE BALDNESS? THE MAGNESIUM RAISES CELL POTASSIUM WHICH CAUSES HAIR GROWTH. THE COPPER SIMPLY RAISES ESTROGEN... ISNT THAT FINE? WHY WOULD RAISING ESTROGEN EFFECT THE BALANCE OF PROGESTERONE TO DHT? WOULDNT IT JUST INCREASE THEM IN BALANCE







Maybe a protocol would be something like this;
850mg mag
2mg copper

Everyday for 2 weeks

Followed by zinc 30mg and mang 10mg for 1 month (for hairloss people with slow oxidation )



this is the protocol which was outlined. I am not sure why are you still thinking about it. just match JoeKool's protocol. Copper will decrease serotonin which will decrease ACTH. Which will decrease cortisol. When cortisol falls this will cause sodium to fall. Copper will increase progesterone even further thus we give magnesium and potassium which will lower progesterone by putting potassium in the cell. You dont cancel anything out. I know this is complicated , but this is how minerals work.

then later you can add manganese and zinc, plus b2 and iron and some methylation not to have a hairloss

this was outlined from the very beginning

Ok so the protocol i outlined is missing potassium. How much potassium a day do you suggest supplementing? Some bottles suggest around 400mg (but also some magnesium bottles only suggest 100mg and im sayig 850 sounds more like it)

Why not following Scene's protocol?
I think Gbold will not answer your questions.
I guess he will put out a protocol soon as he promised, but not now.
I will try Scene's protocol one of these days.
 

Minime

Well-Known Member
Messages
232
gbolduev post_id=4174 time=1510659475 user_id=90 said:
estrogen will make copper biounavailable. And body will try to get rid of it. If the rate the body doing this is slow, then of course it will be deposited elsewhere. It is free copper that is causing this.

Estrogen will lower copper in the enzymes. That is chelation.

things like resveratrol( estrogen) will cause copper deficiency. With potentially high free copper, since ceruloplasmin can get overloaded

What is the protocol if estrogen is already really high? My estrogen is high...I’m assuming this is from copper overload since I eat a lot of cashews daily (can’t eat gluten or dairy anymore so I eat a lot of meat, nuts and veggies). I’m assuming supplemting copper would be useless in my case since my estrogen is high(?)
 

TubZy

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Staff member
Messages
2,591
Another good read on copper and magnesium, potassium from Gbol.
Copper/Zinc Thread
Zinc lowers Magnesium which makes Copper bio-unavailable. This will lower your serum Manganese. Since serum Manganese goes down your IRON can’t come out into the serum. IRON is what makes DHT sensitive.

Calcium Magnesium Copper Zinc Manganese supplement will fix you up. Copper alone 25mg will increase sodium too much and that will lower Magnesium and basically ceruloplasmin will tank, even if you take 25mg which is insane.

Bottom line, Copper when you take it tanks Potassium and puts pressure on Magnesium. When Potassium tanks on taking 25mg Copper, body will increase sodium extraction and will try to retain Potassium by increasing 3 beta HSD, and will retain Magnesium. Since you don’t have enough Magnesium, you taking Copper is doing nothing.

This is the biggest mistake of people taking Copper. Copper only should be taken with Potassium and Magnesium and sometimes Manganese. Otherwise taking Copper will never raise your ceruloplasmin.

This is what happened to you. when you took Zinc, your Potassium in the cell went up since Zinc increases 3 beta HSD.

Then you took a little bit of Copper and your drive sex drive went up. But you took so much Copper that your Potassium tanks from high to low. Now body is retaining Zinc and getting rid of Copper LOL

For your body to retain Copper you need to support Potassium level with Potassium and Magnesium.

In any case, try supplement

Magnesium, calcium, d3, Zinc, Copper, Manganese, boron. It should fix you within a week or so.


Once you get your progesterone sensitive again. your copper will work on its own. just eat seafood, oysters, shrimp stuff like that.

I mean you had amazing improvement in every department. Feelings, quantity of sperm (the more important) means that FSH is working again which depends on copper. and penis sensitivity. I mean that is in 3 days. this is very good signs. And these happened when you were not on the substance but off it. Which will stick.

people never have emotions back with PFS. I remember when I was sick, I did not care about anything, almost dead. I cared less about women but had sex with them. when I got back to normal, difference was night and day. most of you already forgot what compassion is and what normal feelings are. You are all logical now. NO FEELINGS. like robots. This is zinc oriented people. Copper is what gives those emotions. Hypoxia caused by alkalosis is terrible.


There is a guy called Freddd. He found that he had low copper and he took like 20mg of it.

Read this. His testosterone went up, his libido went up, his hairloss went up

Copper deficiency....?

But I think his copper is simply bio unavailable, since steroids progestins caused sodium retention and alkalosis with increased volume. Not in every case, but I saw it on many tests.
IRON

Retention of iron in the liver is due to low estrogen. Peat is super wrong on this. Women after menopause start retaining iron in their livers also, since their estrogen levels fall.

Basically, if you are stressed you will use a lot of pregnenolone to make progesterone for cortisol and aldosterone pathway and will have very little DHEA. That will put your testosterone and estradiol into the lower part of the range. And you will start accumulating iron and copper in the liver. The mechanism how it works is this.

To release iron from the liver you need xanthine oxidase which runs on vitamin B2 and molybdenum, then you need ceruloplasmin to oxidize iron and put it on transferrin.
SO here we can possibly have 2 problems, lack of B2 or molybdenum, and lack of DHEA from stress so there is very little estrogen made. LOW estrogen equals low ceruloplasmin which equals no iron on transferrin and tons of it in ferritin.
Another problem is suppressing estrogen)))) like Peat advices, and then you run low on zinc no matter what you do and you wear glasses as thick as a windshield in your car)). Estrogen is needed to make zinc bioavailable since without bioavailable copper that estrogen provides your zinc levels will be suppressed. And when you run low on bioavailable zinc your protein synthesis goes down the drain and what suffers first. Yes, you got it, the tiny muscles around your eyes. NOW we look at the thickness of PEATs glasses))) Can’t see his eyes behind those. It is funny that I had the same when I got sick before I got into all this medical crap. I remember I was driving a car and I could not see the signs on the road and my eyes constantly got tired.
SO, the good idea would be to test your DHEA, Pregnenolone and B2 and molybdenum status. IF you have low pregnenolone, that is most likely you have SIBO in the gut, since pregnenolone is made from cholesterol and coenzyme A which requires B5 in its active form --pantethine and acetic acid(vinegar).
B5 recycling depends on the gut. That is why so many people are helped with simple vinegar plus brewer’s yeast.
Also, iron chelation is good, but don’t forget we have low iron in tissues but some free iron in the organs and tons of iron in the liver. SO, I think proper iron chelation would be by making iron bioavailable so it does not spill from the liver and making sure you have proper ceruloplasmin levels to make iron work.
Copper is needed to lower iron, most people have low bound iron in the cell, since most people have low bioavailable copper. Unbound iron is the culprit of the problems, bound iron is needed and very good for you. And everyone is low on it. Look at hair tests, 90 out of 100 will have low iron not high. SO, when you have ceruloplasmin iron will be put on transferrin and to me it has nothing to do with saturation at all. Iron is good in the cell, we don’t have it there, we have it in the liver spilling into blood in free form and then it gets into organs in free form. That is way different.
If you will run low on iron, your thyroid will be down and ceruloplasmin won’t rise. Manganese and copper lower iron in the liver by making it available to the body to the cell. Molybdenum and b2 are also needed for this. Since they mobilize iron from the liver stores and then copper converts it into usable form and then it is put onto transferrin.
it is not about chelating or stopping iron, you are low on it in the cell, as everyone else. It is about making it go into the cell, instead of growing bigger and bigger in the liver, decreasing and decreasing manganese and impairing detox and spilling into kidneys pancreas and other organs in free form
And ferritin says nothing about your liver stores, if you are low on manganese you simply don’t make ferritin and you make much less ceruloplasmin. As an example, your ferritin says 10. Doctor gives you iron, and you kill yourself further. Your liver is full of it, you take manganese and your ferritin will rise without even taking iron since ferritin was not being made without manganese
Anemia of chronic disease does not have high iron in the cell. I had it. My iron was super low in hair nails. My ferritin was 400. My iron in the cell was low. I am not talking about plasma iron, free iron won’t be in blood, but it will spill. Most people have iron overload in the liver. may be over 90 percent of them and most of these people are low in iron in the cell.
CELL IRON is low in most people, high or low ferritin. Ferritin does not correspond to even liver stores of iron. It is a fact. The best indicator that you are getting better on hair tests when your iron gets higher. Also, ferritin shows absolutely nothing. Just take T3 hormones and check it, you will be surprised, Ferritin will skyrocket WHY? Since if you are not hypothyroid, body will take iron out of blood ASAP Also if you have infection, body will store iron in the liver and take it out of blood, and put copper there.
Aspirin takes care of inflammation by making sugar go into the cell. That raises DHEA and lowers cortisol. Cortisol production is NEVER dysregulated. NEVER. And it does not need to come down. Cortisol can be raised for many purposes and not only inflammation. Inflammation is just one reason. Cortisol can and will be raised if you have pancreas problem, sugar problems, etc. And it is raised to save you. You live on cortisol let’s say if you are insulin resistant. And if you lower cortisol you will die.))) YOU NEED to lower cortisol not with a drug. You need to lower it by satisfying condition for what it is raised. Let’s say no sugar in the cell. Satisfy that condition and it will fall. But if you lower it without satisfying that condition by some stupid drug or by inhibiting ACTH, that is simply silly/
Progesterone always goes into aldosterone and cortisol pathway)))) it is made for that reason. I said that if you give progesterone it will raise cortisol at first then it will lower it, if you needed cortisol spike. If you need cortisol at a constant rate, progesterone will raise cortisol. Don’t forget progesterone increases potassium in the cell. Cortisol rises with potassium. That is why to raise cortisol people can use potassium supplements.
I am not saying to take cortisol supplements. I am saying that DHEA does not lower cortisol if you need cortisol. It will lower cortisol only if you had blood sugar problems. Also, progesterone will lower cortisol only if it was high and you needed more aldosterone.
Also, why would progesterone increase blood pressure, it wastes sodium. Also, try giving that progesterone to women with normal progesterone they will bleed to death.
Bottom line, it is not high cortisol that the culprit of a problem, it is the real problem that is causing high cortisol. And if cortisol is stuck up there, that means body can’t fix that problem. OR cortisol did not spike high enough, and now it is high but not high enough/ That is why progesterone lowers cortisol, since cortisol spikes where it needs to take care of whatever it was doing and then it comes down.
DHEA will increase cortisol and it increases estrogen))) You can see many people here playing with pregnenolone and dhea and getting hairloss and acne etc. That is because if you increase DHEA too much or take it with pregnenolone, that will increase cortisol progesterone, Estrogen testosterone.
Why do you think DHEA is for anti-aging? WHY? I will tell you why. It increases estrogen)))) estrogen will chelate copper from the liver and it raises ceruloplasmin in blood. Read the study where estrogen totally clears liver from copper and puts it into the cells and brain basically fixing prions. Most people when they die have very high copper in their livers and zero copper in their body, since their DHEA production goes down which lowers their estrogen to very low. estrogen binds copper from the liver. Peat is saying that we are losing copper))) LMAO just do the biopsy of your liver and see how you are losing it)))) it will be full of copper and iron. And the only way to chelate copper and iron out of there is to increase estrogen. Ceruloplasmin goes up and then your liver copper goes down, that puts up molybdenum and manganese in there which will release iron thru xanthine oxidase which will be oxidized by ceruloplasmin. PEAT is totally wrong about this. And eating tons of copper has the same effect as raw food diet, first 6 months you do great on it then you crash hard. Since copper taken will stimulate adrenals and eventually they will burn out.
If you lower your estrogen, you won’t be binding copper)))) YOU will suffer so bad it is not even funny.
As funny as it sounds, taking progesterone increases estrogen. Just look at the chart. you take progesterone, more pregnenolone is free and it gets converted into DHEA which will raise estrogen testosterone etc.
BALANCE is a key. Some people’s metabolisms are fast and some are slow depending on their food activity and so forth. That is why for some PUFA is a miracle and poison for others. For some estrogen is bad and it is helpful for others
Yes. Especially liver. Liver is a NO NO for the slow oxidizer. LIVER IS full of copper. and slow oxidizers livers are full of copper. Fast oxidizers hyperventilate they have strong sympathetic system, they are getting rid of copper and their ceruloplasmin are high. they need more calcium and magnesium to slow down the sympathetic nervous system, this will stop their copper losses.
this is why when you are sick with certain cancer, you just go and run run run run / this will get rid of unbound copper, it will speed up your metabolism. and cure your cancer.
People don’t' become short on minerals, their life style makes them lose or retain certain minerals.
This is why light therapy works. It effects the mineral retention. Red Light therapy chelates copper since it increases adrenaline.
Red light is used in ECKS system to chelate copper.
Some people do good on blue light, some people do good on green light. Light therapy and contrarian endocrinology is the future.
Soon a machine will be created where you can get balanced on a daily basis just sleeping with certain light sequences. I am looking into this also. just imagine, you can get tested, if you are slow oxidizer, more red light sequences, fast oxidizers more blue light sequences. And you are balanced all the time.
this is very interesting and I know couple people already work with this with just amazing results. they created handmade machines with lights and also created a testing method on what lights to use.

To get healthy you need to change your life style. This way you won’t need to take any supplements at all. I don't take anything. AT ALL, I eat a balanced diet.
I think you might have made yourself potassium deficient. I would try to take potassium with magnesium for a while to restore your insulin levels. then try to add some zinc and manganese or thorne extra nutrients.
Without potassium, you can’t make insulin. Also without ionized calcium you can’t release insulin. For calcium to stay ionized you need to have magnesium. Without magnesium, your potassium will go down, since aldosterone will stay sky high.