Experimental Hair Loss Options

[Aleksandr]

Guys, you should understand, that I am against mineral supplements. I am pro chelation. Zeolites are really good.

I am pro fasting. and eating healthy diet, that I outlined.

Mineral balancing is really complicated and if done correctly, it wont make you feel good. It ill make you feel bad, since all our imbalances are not from deficiencies of minerals, they are from toxicities.

SO it is possible to fix things using minerals, but minerals in this case are used only as chelators. and provokers.

I'm interested in chelation since i will be unable to do long fasts for various reasons. I am a slow 4. It sounds like fasts are basically just chelations anyway. Does chelation with zeolites work for fast oxidisers too?

From memory you used ZeoActiv8 - it says to put this in drops of water. Take 2 hours away from food or other supplements.
Quote from zeoactive8 website:
"very effective in its ability to draw in (absorb) the heavy metals, inorganic compounds and toxins that the body cannot dispose of itself"

You say imbalances are only from toxicities... When I had my hair test done, I didn't really have any toxicities under "toxic elements"... Are they hidden toxicities? Can you talk more about this?

Thanks

 

[JonnyCraig]

Based on gbold's new posts..

NEW REGIMEN:

Morning - 22mg zinc/10mg manganese
Night - Advanced Ferrochel by Source Naturals - 1 tablet before bed (Iron)

DROPPED Copper.

F.Y.I - My diet is now VERY HIGH in seafood.. stopped eating meat, chicken, dairy, fruit juice.

Also drinking a lot of low sodium V8. It has ADDED potassium chloride, magnesium sulphate, etc.. very interesting! 1 cup is 850mg of potassium! <-- is this a good idea??

"PLus people should be aware that iron deficiency is the reason also for hairloss.

SO b2 with iron for some people can stop it"

Are you completely sure you are Iron deficient? Iron is crucial in production pregnenolone and dht so I don't think it is safety to take it without any lab results.

My ferritin was '63' last it was tested.

63 ng/ml

 

[hello]

I don't know anymore.

I am shedding quite a bit (currently on 4mg copper - 22mg zinc/10mg manganese).

Unsure what to really drop here.

Contemplating going back on progesterone to see how the shedding goes on that.

Why are you taking copper and zinc and manganese? You can never never take copper alone. it has to always be taken with magnesium and potassium.

Plus why are you taking copper anyway. are you a fast oxidizer?



Most people need zinc and manganese, and it can make you feel bad at first. like for the first week

Do you have a hairtest. or blood work?

Thank you for letting us know . I personally have been for like 5 days, on 30mg zinc 10 mg manganese, and because of really bad symptoms...like irritability, agitation, anxiety.. I dropped them. At that moment I thought that all that was from high manganese, that was rising a lot prolactin level... and because mine was already a lot higher then normal... (link to blood tests-> https://app.box.com/s/755ebq29qc6nqwlbalsxow046f7k6bhg) I just thought that I should drop manganese immediately. I continued to take 15mg zinc for a while, because blood tests says I am zinc deficient. Right now I am on Cabergoline half a pill once a week. This is the fourth week, and I am thinking to stop it for now, also I am on Centrum Silver.( I don't know if I should take this Centrum or not, but I feel better.)

Now I understand that those reactions are to be expected, once copper gets out into the blood stream. I have found this article that talks a lot about eliminating copper and copper elimination symptoms: http://drlwilson.com/articles/copper%20elimination.htm . I think, like myself, others from here dropped this protocol because of bad symptoms, and no one really stick to it till copper is out. I am thinking to start again zinc manganese.
[mention]gbolduev[/mention] Can you please take a look at my blood tests, and confirm me that I am a slow oxidizer to be sure that what i am doing is right. Other recommendations based on what you see on tests are really welcomed .
Thank you

 

[hairloser]

Have all of you guys experienced bad symptoms from zinc + manganese? I'm fifth day on 50 + 12mg and I feel nothing. Same like always

 

[JDreamer]

Random observation ......

I washed my hair in the sink of the spare bathroom yesterday instead of in my usual shower. My hair quality was ten times better. I noticed this same thing showering in my hotel room when I was in Vegas for Labor Day.

Is there anything to discuss in terms of water quality when it comes to the condition of our scalps/hair? I honestly think there is something quite wrong with the water coming out of my shower. It leaves an orangish residue on the shower curtain.

 

[TubZy]

Random observation ......

I washed my hair in the sink of the spare bathroom yesterday instead of in my usual shower. My hair quality was ten times better. I noticed this same thing showering in my hotel room when I was in Vegas for Labor Day.

Is there anything to discuss in terms of water quality when it comes to the condition of our scalps/hair? I honestly think there is something quite wrong with the water coming out of my shower. It leaves an orangish residue on the shower curtain.

Get a shower filter if you can, that is what I use, my skin comes out softer ever since I did

 

[JonnyCraig]

Have all of you guys experienced bad symptoms from zinc + manganese? I'm fifth day on 50 + 12mg and I feel nothing. Same like always

I feel the same too.

Actually better... hornier (after days on it start to notice that).

 

[Helen]

Some people can lose their hair, since their Sulfur pathway is activated too much , I guess because of some toxicities.

Their cysteine is used heavily and they run low on that also. When you add cysteine, you free up B2 and that is why cysteine works for hangovers. to convert to cysteine you need b6 in its active form and magnesium. B6 is activated by vitamin B2. SO taking cysteine spares Vitamin B2 and allows it to detox adelhydes after drinking

I would assume cysteine would be pro hair

 

[JonnyCraig]

gbold, this is a highly debated topic, but what are the optimal iron/ferritin levels for men in regards to having good/healthy hair?

I was on a stupid diet for awhile to lose weight ASAP (low low calorics, low protein, low carb, for awhile) and I think it messed me up (iron levels).

 

[Helen]

gbold, this is a highly debated topic, but what are the optimal iron/ferritin levels for men in regards to having good/healthy hair?

I was on a stupid diet for awhile to lose weight ASAP (low low calorics, low protein, low carb, for awhile) and I think it messed me up (iron levels).

It is better to ask what your levels are . And what is your potassium level. ferritin and iron should be in the middle of the range. around 70-100 , but ferritin is NOT LIVER IRON STORES.

 

[JonnyCraig]

gbold, this is a highly debated topic, but what are the optimal iron/ferritin levels for men in regards to having good/healthy hair?

I was on a stupid diet for awhile to lose weight ASAP (low low calorics, low protein, low carb, for awhile) and I think it messed me up (iron levels).

It is better to ask what your levels are . And what is your potassium level. ferritin and iron should be in the middle of the range. around 70-100 , but ferritin is NOT LIVER IRON STORES.

My ferritin is 63.

I read 80+ is ideal for hair in general, others say 100+ is best. like 100-120 range.

BTW, would adding resveratrol be good for hair in general? hell.. what about Ecklonia Cava Extract?

 

[TubZy]

Great stuff @TubZy. I follow Travis over on RPF and try to make sense of his posts. Seems like he’s making headway. I talked with him a few months ago about the liquid solution of cyclosporine that was formulated for optimal topical absorption, it’s called Neoral. Not sure if anyone has tried it, but it seems close to what he claims ideal...

Interesting too about avoiding linoleic acid, it does indeed sound hard to do. As for the Oleuropein, I’ve not tried it but I have read about people slathering olive oil on their scalps and using a boar bristle brush to distribute it...of course, progress is tough to track.

Here is the second list of info from Travis. It also seems apple cider vinegar is a PPAR agonist as well

This prostaglandin stuff is the cutting‐edge, really. The prostaglandin D₂ discovery was only a few years ago, and Garza's article will make anyone forget about much anything else. I don't give a ***t about my hair, but I was excited to read it anyway since I get paid to write articles—and like science—and never make‐up bull****: If I don't think that something is true, I wont talk about it.

But this certainly must really be how the hair cycle is controlled, on the fundamental level, through prostaglandins and the TGF-βs. All of the hair keratins are transcribed by either PPARα or PPARγ, and these receptors are controlled by prostaglandins (and a few other things too.)

It seems as though activating PPARγ and PPARα (oleuropein) together should be good. Anything that activates PPARβ and likely δ should probably be avoided. It's hard to find much info on PPARβ since it's not commonly studied—but it certainly antagonizes PPARγ and PPARα and keeps them from making proteins (keratin not excluded).

I'm going to look into other reasons why prostaglandin D₂ could be elevated, any time now.. . . .

 

[JonnyCraig]

Sorry if this is too simplified, but gbold said:

"Progesterone is pro hair? LOL sure . Hairloss is 2 types. one is from AGA with low potassium and high progesterone and DHT sensitivity. and second type is protein wasting hairloss, high potassium, low progesterone high oxidation.( Danny Roddy case - not androgenic at all.)

Try to give progesterone to type 2. and that person will lose all his hair within a month. Try to give it to type one and that person will gain hair."

Essentially, someone who has true AGA hairloss should benefit from supplementing with Progesterone.

Does this theory of yours still stand? I know you don't recommend it because you also state it will definitely lower testosterone (and dht). However... if someone has no negative side effects, couldn't they just take Progesterone longterm to battle hairloss?

 

[JonnyCraig]

Tubzy, thoughts on taking oleuropein orally? Should it help?

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-superior-herbs-olive-leaf-extract-super-strength-750-mg-60-caps BOGO sale on right now..

 

[JonnyCraig]

Also, what about Inositol ?

 

[Jamie]

Great stuff @TubZy. I follow Travis over on RPF and try to make sense of his posts. Seems like he’s making headway. I talked with him a few months ago about the liquid solution of cyclosporine that was formulated for optimal topical absorption, it’s called Neoral. Not sure if anyone has tried it, but it seems close to what he claims ideal...

Interesting too about avoiding linoleic acid, it does indeed sound hard to do. As for the Oleuropein, I’ve not tried it but I have read about people slathering olive oil on their scalps and using a boar bristle brush to distribute it...of course, progress is tough to track.

Here is the second list of info from Travis. It also seems apple cider vinegar is a PPAR agonist as well

This prostaglandin stuff is the cutting‐edge, really. The prostaglandin D₂ discovery was only a few years ago, and Garza's article will make anyone forget about much anything else. I don't give a ***t about my hair, but I was excited to read it anyway since I get paid to write articles—and like science—and never make‐up bull****: If I don't think that something is true, I wont talk about it.

But this certainly must really be how the hair cycle is controlled, on the fundamental level, through prostaglandins and the TGF-βs. All of the hair keratins are transcribed by either PPARα or PPARγ, and these receptors are controlled by prostaglandins (and a few other things too.)

It seems as though activating PPARγ and PPARα (oleuropein) together should be good. Anything that activates PPARβ and likely δ should probably be avoided. It's hard to find much info on PPARβ since it's not commonly studied—but it certainly antagonizes PPARγ and PPARα and keeps them from making proteins (keratin not excluded).

I'm going to look into other reasons why prostaglandin D₂ could be elevated, any time now.. . . .

All that stuff about prostaglandins. Isn't it how swisstemples tried to cure hairloss?

 

[JonnyCraig]

^^Yes.. while he took 10mg of dutasteride at the same time. lol

 

[TubZy]

Tubzy, thoughts on taking oleuropein orally? Should it help?

https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-superior-herbs-olive-leaf-extract-super-strength-750-mg-60-caps BOGO sale on right now..

Not sure tbh. Topically it is pretty easy to dissolve either in olive oil or even water it seems. May be better to get a liquid extract

 

[JonnyCraig]

Thanks. I will try it orally and see how it goes.

My hair is shedding quite a lot right now.

On Zinc 22mg/Manganese 10mg daily.

Considering hopping on Progesterone again and seeing how it goes.

Right now I am just losing a lot of hair... I can shower, lose a lot of hair, then after shower, brush and brush and it keeps coming.. something is not right.

 

[TubZy]

Great stuff @TubZy. I follow Travis over on RPF and try to make sense of his posts. Seems like he’s making headway. I talked with him a few months ago about the liquid solution of cyclosporine that was formulated for optimal topical absorption, it’s called Neoral. Not sure if anyone has tried it, but it seems close to what he claims ideal...

Interesting too about avoiding linoleic acid, it does indeed sound hard to do. As for the Oleuropein, I’ve not tried it but I have read about people slathering olive oil on their scalps and using a boar bristle brush to distribute it...of course, progress is tough to track.

Here is the second list of info from Travis. It also seems apple cider vinegar is a PPAR agonist as well

This prostaglandin stuff is the cutting‐edge, really. The prostaglandin D₂ discovery was only a few years ago, and Garza's article will make anyone forget about much anything else. I don't give a ***t about my hair, but I was excited to read it anyway since I get paid to write articles—and like science—and never make‐up bull****: If I don't think that something is true, I wont talk about it.

But this certainly must really be how the hair cycle is controlled, on the fundamental level, through prostaglandins and the TGF-βs. All of the hair keratins are transcribed by either PPARα or PPARγ, and these receptors are controlled by prostaglandins (and a few other things too.)

It seems as though activating PPARγ and PPARα (oleuropein) together should be good. Anything that activates PPARβ and likely δ should probably be avoided. It's hard to find much info on PPARβ since it's not commonly studied—but it certainly antagonizes PPARγ and PPARα and keeps them from making proteins (keratin not excluded).

I'm going to look into other reasons why prostaglandin D₂ could be elevated, any time now.. . . .

All that stuff about prostaglandins. Isn't it how swisstemples tried to cure hairloss?

Yeah, I tried many PG things in the past (listed in the OP) but swiss temples was also using lots of dut, the PG angle does work to an extent it is just the treatments/drugs are hard to get a hold of