Experimental Hair Loss Options

[Jamie]

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] what can I do? I have been taking calcium+magnesium as I am magnesium deficient.

I stopped taking copper as you said it increases calcium in the cell while I have quite normal calcium levels. It really helped, your advices were very helpful as now I feel less stressed and finally can focus my mind on studying, previously I couldn't do even that.
But I started shedding again right now. I cannot understand much from my labs. High Iodine, low boron- thyroid/parathyroid issues?? High zinc/low iron- should I fap more? :? :shock:

 

[JonnyCraig]

Is anybody showing any signs of success or that something positive is happening whilst on zinc and manganese?

I've been on it for about six weeks and have noticed no difference in hair shedding. May even be worse. In that time, I've also been adopting a slow oxidiser diet.

Would be good to hear from others.

I've been on zinc 22mg/manganese 10mg for awhile. I think I will stop.. I am just shedding a lot. (I know gbold said that is expected at first as it's pushing copper out, but at this point I don't wanna chance it not stopping).

I have just added Progesterone a few days ago (that's how worried I've been). I have used Progesterone for 7months, and I only stopped maybe 2 months ago. Progesterone seemed to work well for me in maintaining my hair. The one side effect I've noticed is orgasms and sex/masturbating isn't as good as off progesterone. I only noticed this once I was OFF progesterone for a few weeks. So it definitely has some 5-ar inhibition activity (or a lot if you read the studies on it).

Think I'll stay on progesterone for awhile and see how I do. I buy the progesterone oil from healthnatura, and I used to take 100mg in a capsule, swallow, at bedtime. But now I am wondering if I should just take it as drops in my mouth, take less, and perhaps more will be absorbed than if I took it overall in a capsule. Also wondering if I should dose every 12hrs, or once a day.

My big question is (aside from how I should be dosing and frequency) are what complimentary supplements should I be taking alongside progesterone. I know I need to get sodium high, and believe me I am craving salty sodium filled foods/drinks right now.

 

[Aleksandr]

Is anybody showing any signs of success or that something positive is happening whilst on zinc and manganese?

I've been on it for about six weeks and have noticed no difference in hair shedding. May even be worse. In that time, I've also been adopting a slow oxidiser diet.

Would be good to hear from others.

I've been on zinc 22mg/manganese 10mg for awhile. I think I will stop.. I am just shedding a lot. (I know gbold said that is expected at first as it's pushing copper out, but at this point I don't wanna chance it not stopping).

I have just added Progesterone a few days ago (that's how worried I've been). I have used Progesterone for 7months, and I only stopped maybe 2 months ago. Progesterone seemed to work well for me in maintaining my hair. The one side effect I've noticed is orgasms and sex/masturbating isn't as good as off progesterone. I only noticed this once I was OFF progesterone for a few weeks. So it definitely has some 5-ar inhibition activity (or a lot if you read the studies on it).

Think I'll stay on progesterone for awhile and see how I do. I buy the progesterone oil from healthnatura, and I used to take 100mg in a capsule, swallow, at bedtime. But now I am wondering if I should just take it as drops in my mouth, take less, and perhaps more will be absorbed than if I took it overall in a capsule. Also wondering if I should dose every 12hrs, or once a day.

My big question is (aside from how I should be dosing and frequency) are what complimentary supplements should I be taking alongside progesterone. I know I need to get sodium high, and believe me I am craving salty sodium filled foods/drinks right now.

Do you have a hair test?

 

[Canari]

You realize that all the guys who are here for PFS are screwed because they were taking a progestin in finasteride right? This isn't a cult thing, I don't give a damn what other people here have said - it's just flat out not a good idea for most men to take progesterone, especially indefinitely.

I'm happy to hear you haven't got any side effects in 7 months of using progesterone, but it doesn't mean you aren't putting yourself at risk of sexual side effects in the future. This seems especially silly if you still have your hair too.

You are welcome to do whatever you want to your own body. I'm also allowed to say that I think it's an awful idea.

I am not 100% sold on the idea, however it has never really affected me negatively, and I do feel quite good at the moment (more relaxed than usual).
I understand finasteride is synthesized using Progesterone as the main building block, that said, I don't think it works in the exact same way. For example.. Prog increases allopreg, while finasteride tanks it.

Please be careful! The damage can be cumulative, and no problem in 7 months does not mean you will not have!

I am using 100mg placed into capsule and swallowed before bedtime, but I've also put drops directly in mouth, and some drops on scalp.

What is on your scalp will go into your blood THE SAME, so you have to count it in your intake!

You cannot take it constantly, even as a woman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think I did wrong taking it 2 years. And I did stop sometimes, though with no regular rythm. If it helps you without having solved the problem, you would want to know WHY it helps, and solve the problem upward. I agree:

I am not sure it is a good idea for a male to stay on progesterone constantly.
100mg seems like a huge dose to say on constantly for a man.

YES. It would even do bad for a woman, I am glad I stopped it. And I have low copper when I expected it to be high....

Jonny, I think it modifies copper to zinc ratio, so mind the results when the minerals are going out of balance.

Also, gbold since you mentioned thyroid in your post. If someone has a low body temp, and a confirmed high TSH (4.23) would it be worth it to try and supplement with low-dose thyroid? I recently saw someone claim 'Tyromix' stops their shedding dead. Interesting..

NO, do not rush. You have to know why you have low TSH in blood before taking some hormone. If your body wants to have a lower metabolism for a specific reason, you can get into problems. You also want to be sure your adrenals are fine..

My feelings...
- you are in a hurry because you rush against the clock for your hair, but taking the best route is safer. Look at the map before loosing you on the way! You want to arrive.
- Do not take anything constantly.
- You can get other damage than hair loss. Your body has to adapt to what you do, and then you will not know what is your metabolic state at all!
- You have not done any thread for YOU. So you talk about hair loss in several threads, or about thyroid in the zinc finger thread, or about your diet that is not keto in the keto thread
Why don't you gather all this in a log? You can already copy a lot of your past posts, put this in order and state your labs and thyroid results etc, then your issues, both hair and health, your diet exercise and age. Then your past intents, then what you do and plan to do!
Hope it helps and to post a thumb up on your topic, and that our admin will add this smiley hehe!

I welcome all feedback, positive or negative. I only ask that I am not banned/censored for sharing mine.

Don't worry as said matty already, but you know, there is more than feedback, there is also care... Maybe you can also feel that those who have any post-use-syndrom, can feel afraid when reading the huge amount you take, and you ask for dosage after stating the trial. A log would be a super idea!

 

[Canari]

I am peeing A LOT, since taking progesterone last night. Today I have had to pee a lot and I'm not even drinking that much.

That's because progesterone screws with mineral balance, which can cause excessive urination. Progesterone modulates renal function in order to retain potassium.

Thanks! Now I know why I stopped peeing at night! Stopped progest-e!
My potassium in hair is more on the low side...

 

[JonnyCraig]

Thanks for the feedback Canari.

I have seen your other posts you seem very nice, thanks again for that.

I will do a log eventually..

Quick question, and I know it goes against what you said, but.. what dosage of prog were u using? what effects did u notice overall? did it make your skin look better/worse? and... did it help or hinder your hair?

 

[Canari]

I would like to ask @@TubZy or @mattyb , can we have separate threads for each protocol?

A sort of if this > then that ?

The insane amount of repetitions, iterations, contradictions, personal tweaks is making general threads really hard to follow.

For instance, shouldn't the two mineral protocols Gbolduev suggested be properly differentiated?

You are welcome to start any thread on any topic that you want. Don't wait for someone else to do it if you want to discuss a specific protocol.

This is just a general thread for discussing any experimental hair loss strategy. You aren't limited to discussing gbold's strategies.

Even if you are right at general level, you are not totally right IMO and thus a little abrupt there maybe...
We can start a topic, yes, but it is almost impossible to do so if the topic already exists! If "the two mineral protocols Gbolduev suggested" are already talked about, I do not see how it is possible to open another thread about it...
And this is absolutely right that most general threads are difficult to follow except for regular posters involved! Many are off title subjects after some time. I agree to not stop spontaneity, and also agree people want to have results and can have some fatigue from health issues.
If we project the same issues on newcomers that have to read all and join a discussion.... difficult task. That is why I have created some new threads and split some topics, to facilitate new members and future search. And i welcome Ivy expressing the difficulty of the "hard to follow", which is a simple statement.

If a "brainstorm topic" is necessary, then somebody could make some time gift by copying the different options and creating 2 new topics with clear names?

I have no idea if the 2 options she mentions can now be discussing in 2 different places?

 

[hairloser]

So after taking Zinc + manganese for 3-4 weeks, i've started to somometimes get some twitching in my upper stomach area ( not painful, but strange feeling ) i'm also taking VIT d + magnesium + taurine + MSM. Anyone had similar side effect? No effect on hair at all though. I'm also on topical taurine + msm + caffeine ( there is a sponsored study claiming that caffeine is just as effective as minox lol ).

 

[Helen]

So after taking Zinc + manganese for 3-4 weeks, i've started to somometimes get some twitching in my upper stomach area ( not painful, but strange feeling ) i'm also taking VIT d + magnesium + taurine + MSM. Anyone had similar side effect? No effect on hair at all though. I'm also on topical taurine + msm + caffeine ( there is a sponsored study claiming that caffeine is just as effective as minox lol ).

read ZINC FINGER THREAD. without labs and not know who you are. It is silly to take zinc manganese combo, it can cause copper deficiency.
But if you are a slow oxidizer , then it will chelate copper and improve your metabolism

 

[Aleksandr]

So after taking Zinc + manganese for 3-4 weeks, i've started to somometimes get some twitching in my upper stomach area ( not painful, but strange feeling ) i'm also taking VIT d + magnesium + taurine + MSM. Anyone had similar side effect? No effect on hair at all though. I'm also on topical taurine + msm + caffeine ( there is a sponsored study claiming that caffeine is just as effective as minox lol ).

read ZINC FINGER THREAD. without labs and not know who you are. It is silly to take zinc manganese combo, it can cause copper deficiency.
But if you are a slow oxidizer , then it will chelate copper and improve your metabolism

What if you're a slow 4 with parasympathetic dominance but fast thyroid fast adrenals?

Does high thyroid = low energy feeling? (Higher co2 etc making you sleepy)

 

[brix]

Hair is still not shedding with copper, mag, and calcium.
Even when taking thyroid or androsterone. Hair seems thicker but not sure on regrowth. I am gauging by my temples.

 

[TubZy]

Hair is still not shedding with copper, mag, and calcium.
Even when taking thyroid or androsterone. Hair seems thicker but not sure on regrowth. I am gauging by my temples.

how is the libido

 

[brix]

Hair is still not shedding with copper, mag, and calcium.
Even when taking thyroid or androsterone. Hair seems thicker but not sure on regrowth. I am gauging by my temples.

how is the libido

It’s definitely good. Better than it’s been for a long time.

 

[JonnyCraig]

Thanks for the updates brixie.

I perhaps should have stayed longer on copper/mag/cal - instead of jumping back so quickly on zinc/mang bandwagon. I may have jumped the gun there a bit. Zinc/mang makes me shed.... copper does NOT... at least from what I could tell in my brief stint with both.

But I am back on 100mg oral progesterone, about a week in. I think I'm just getting into the sweet stop of it reducing shedding, right now. The guy who's MD father prescribes him this against hair loss, uses it EOD, not even daily. I may do that, too...

On another note [mention]TubZy[/mention] have you taken the oral prog yet? I am dying to hear your feedback :twisted:

 

[TubZy]

Thanks for the updates brixie.

I perhaps should have stayed longer on copper/mag/cal - instead of jumping back so quickly on zinc/mang bandwagon. I may have jumped the gun there a bit. Zinc/mang makes me shed.... copper does NOT... at least from what I could tell in my brief stint with both.

But I am back on 100mg oral progesterone, about a week in. I think I'm just getting into the sweet stop of it reducing shedding, right now. The guy who's MD father prescribes him this against hair loss, uses it EOD, not even daily. I may do that, too...

On another note @TubZy have you taken the oral prog yet? I am dying to hear your feedback :twisted:

No it hasn't gotten here yet, I'm not using it for hair purposes though, i'm just trying to down regulate prog receptors and cortisol receptors (via prednisone) so my plan isn't to stay on it long

 

[JonnyCraig]

Thanks for the updates brixie.

I perhaps should have stayed longer on copper/mag/cal - instead of jumping back so quickly on zinc/mang bandwagon. I may have jumped the gun there a bit. Zinc/mang makes me shed.... copper does NOT... at least from what I could tell in my brief stint with both.

But I am back on 100mg oral progesterone, about a week in. I think I'm just getting into the sweet stop of it reducing shedding, right now. The guy who's MD father prescribes him this against hair loss, uses it EOD, not even daily. I may do that, too...

On another note @TubZy have you taken the oral prog yet? I am dying to hear your feedback :twisted:

No it hasn't gotten here yet, I'm not using it for hair purposes though, i'm just trying to down regulate prog receptors and cortisol receptors (via prednisone) so my plan isn't to stay on it long

Fair enough.

Not sure if ED is your issue (or partly) but have you seen this? http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Progesterone_Erectile_Dysfunction.aspx

Thought this was kinda interesting, and something mattyb already stated, although in less words:

Progesterone has a less well-known positive effect: it lowers blood pressure (if you take enough). In fact, one study of men and women taking oral progesterone found that it did so very significantly. [7] Furthermore, it does not do this through nitric oxide, but rather via a different mechanism: it draws sodium out of the arteries and stimulates the renin system. [6] Even though it's not a traditional NO booster, it will increase blood flow and this includes blood flow to the penis of course.

 

[JDreamer]

Question: What role does blood flow play in tanning the skin?

The reason I ask is I have this bizarre situation going on where the skin in the receded areas of my hair line will not tan at all. Someone at my work even commented on it a week or so ago. It got me wondering again about the circulatory aspect of hair loss (especially the shape of MPB).

 

[MNK99]

Late reply:

@Scenes:
"Travis thinks it’s no issue, gbold thinks it is...either way, is there any evidence of spiro growing hair in healthy masculine males (not the transgender examples)??"
I tried online purchased and also my own manufactured Spiro cream. Pre Finasteride and such events. It made my skin from nearly clear to amazingly clear and kept my diffuse hair loss at near status quo. I made it with spiro pills (dangerous), pg, aloe vera gel, rosemary water.

Some guys (that aren't "all there") on the hair forums (the biggest one) use Spiro and claim its all fine. They are likely wrong and would shoot estrogen and self-castrate if they could regrow hair. So I don't believe them.

Spiro cream (5% and higher) stopped my hair loss while taking amphetamines (prescription). Prior to adding S5 cream, I'm sure I'd lose hair way faster due to that medicine (a great medicine minus that - worth it tho for me despite my luscious hair decreasing). I'm sure the pills would make me regrow but make me transgender-ish. Fin made me closer to that, thanks Merck! Those douchebags! (No offense to trans people).

 

[Greg313]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5596642/

Just read the summary but apparently 90% of participants with androgenic alopecia had low histidine. Sorry for the low effort post but seemed relevant with the zinc finger theory

 

[Aleksandr]

Late reply:

@Scenes:
"Travis thinks it’s no issue, gbold thinks it is...either way, is there any evidence of spiro growing hair in healthy masculine males (not the transgender examples)??"
I tried online purchased and also my own manufactured Spiro cream. Pre Finasteride and such events. It made my skin from nearly clear to amazingly clear and kept my diffuse hair loss at near status quo. I made it with spiro pills (dangerous), pg, aloe vera gel, rosemary water.

Some guys (that aren't "all there") on the hair forums (the biggest one) use Spiro and claim its all fine. They are likely wrong and would shoot estrogen and self-castrate if they could regrow hair. So I don't believe them.

Spiro cream (5% and higher) stopped my hair loss while taking amphetamines (prescription). Prior to adding S5 cream, I'm sure I'd lose hair way faster due to that medicine (a great medicine minus that - worth it tho for me despite my luscious hair decreasing). I'm sure the pills would make me regrow but make me transgender-ish. Fin made me closer to that, thanks Merck! Those douchebags! (No offense to trans people).

Amphetamines fit into the "speeding up" category of drugs - so it seems like they will balance you (you're probably a slow oxidiser) while you're on them. But what happens when you go on them? You might also have to take an increasing amount.