FINASTERIDE: PFS MECHANISM (detailed)

[Admiral]

Haha figured it was you.

There’s also NADP powder through the sketchy sites of alibaba.

Source CAS 53-59-8 beta Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate NADP Powder on m.alibaba.com

 

[freeflow]

I have lost 0 hair on r andro. I also had 0 libido and 0 erections on it. While my digestion normalized and stools got very dark.
Coconut oil was the other 5ari that made me recover for 1-2 days, apart from tomato juice. The recovery was a jump from 10-20% to a good 70%. Orgasm crashed the coconut oil recovery too, had so much libido and strong erections i had to fap.

Also copper is working for me wonderfully, too bad after some days It made me feel wanting to throw up and nausea all day. Could be low potassium symptom, I will try with electrolytes soon.
I feel this explanation is covering me and my reactions so well.

 

[Helen]

Guys, you need to do a hairtest and take the program. you need to take supplements based on your body chemistry , not some random stuff. Look at Raincoast. He took fin for years lots and lot of years. and he is restored. And he did not take copper and NADP. he took . the nessasy for his body chemistry things/ Look at his log. Cured
and you go back and forth with crazy supps. You were already unbalanced pre fin , that is why you took fin.

If the conversion of NADP to NADPH high , NADP will get converted. you need to lower NADPH or decrease oxidative stress. So NADP does not convert to NADPH

 

[Helen]

I wonder if b3 b2 loading will help

 

[freeflow]

Guys, you need to do a hairtest and take the program. you need to take supplements based on your body chemistry , not some random stuff. Look at Raincoast. He took fin for years lots and lot of years. and he is restored. And he did not take copper and NADP. he took . the nessasy for his body chemistry things/ Look at his log. Cured
and you go back and forth with crazy supps. You were already unbalanced pre fin , that is why you took fin.

If the conversion of NADP to NADPH high , NADP will get converted. you need to lower NADPH or decrease oxidative stress. So NADP does not convert to NADPH

I am recalling that when I first took alpha lipoic acid (ALA) it made me get some very strong personality gains and it made my stools formed just like tribulus and r andro does. Is it because it lowers oxidative stress so NADPH is not needed and have NADP available?


I read ALA is a strong antioxidant, and upregualtes body's own glutathione.

 

[Aleksandr]

If gbold confirms this increases 5 beta reductase I'll buy it so fast it will make your heads spin. You guys know how I am

NNNnnnnnnnnnoòoooooooooooooooooooòooooooooooooo!!

 

[stupidfreak]

Guys if this is the truth and fin does not get metabolized since 5 beta is down. first we can try to increase NADP. I am not sure if they sell it.

Also we can try to lower NADPH at the same time. to allow 5 beta metabolize fin faster.

5 beta's end product is NADPH. so if NADPH is high 5 beta is inhibited. So we need something that lowers NADPH which could be androsterone, or xylitol. Xylitol is made by the NADPH dependant enzyme.

So I am thinking salt loading, xylitol, and NADP ( if you can buy it) and niacin loading.( 7 gram-10 grams a day ) to increase NADP b2 b3 loading.
Basically the goal is to turn down NADPH and ram NADP. until fin is metabolized.

Copper also inhibited g6pd enzyme. which makes NADPH. this is why copper was working for some people. along with magnesium and potassium

If you get back to prefin, you will be losing hair. This is why I rec to you to go and get hair tested and then do all of this according to your metabolism. This way you wont lose any hair and you will get rid of PFS.

Im still losing my hair.I was 1 week on fin and got pfs.Surely fin didnt have much of effect on my shedding,since i also got very agressive diffusing male pattern baldness.Is this common?

 

[Helen]

Plus dont forget if body downregulated NADP, it could be since oxidative stress in mito is very high and body converts all NADP to NADPH. In this case, probably will feel bad on anything that inhibits NADPH, like xylitol. And in this case need to increase antioxidants, in mito.

 

[Admiral]

Plus dont forget if body downregulated NADP, it could be since oxidative stress in mito is very high and body converts all NADP to NADPH. In this case, probably will feel bad on anything that inhibits NADPH, like xylitol. And in this case need to increase antioxidants, in mito.

What would your suggestion be in that case?

PS: I don’t know what mito means..
(I’ll hide in the corner now)

 

[barbaar]

What would your suggestion be in that case?

PS: I don’t know what mito means..
(I’ll hide in the corner now)

Also we could consider that the oxidation of mitochondria could lead to extra need for NADPH and this causes low NADP. So by increasing antioxidants we could spare this conversion . Since fin is a progestin, it raises metabolism without zinc. Zinc should have done that not fin. But people did it with fin / When zinc is raised usually it puts tons of pressure on SOds and especially manganese SODS , since that is the the SOD inside of the mitochondria. So when you go off fin , NADPH cant be downregulated back down, since antioxidant systems are all down. And this causes NADP to stay down. since NADP converts to readily to NADPH . and this NADPH is used heavily for GSH redox. to protect mitochondria.

This is one possibility. May be use of turmeric with ginger can help this situation. Turmeric is very high in manganese iron and ginger is high in potassium

mito = mitochondria, the powerhouse of the cell

 

[Admiral]

Haha thx. I need to learn how to read.

 

[raskolnikov]

Amazing. Do you think PSSD is caused by the same mechanism, @gbolduev ?

 

[RebelWithACause]

Chocolate contains copper + antioxidants. Add in xylitol + B2 & B3.

 

[Helen]

Be careful with xylitol , if you have mito stress, this can cause hemolysis. the low NADP can be from high oxidative stress. We don't know that. So folks need to try this

2 ways either try to increase NADP itself , and inhibit NADPH. or lower the need for NADPH thru raising SODS and this will increase NADP. Which way to go , I dont know

 

[Helen]

Chocolate contains copper + antioxidants. Add in xylitol + B2 & B3.

this is like doing 2 different things ))

 

[RebelWithACause]

this is like doing 2 different things ))

Ah yes I see it


One way to do it: take copper to inhibit enzyme that makes NADPH. Increase NADP by taking xylitol.

I can try this out.

 

[IHateFin]

I have lost 0 hair on r andro. I also had 0 libido and 0 erections on it. While my digestion normalized and stools got very dark.
Coconut oil was the other 5ari that made me recover for 1-2 days, apart from tomato juice. The recovery was a jump from 10-20% to a good 70%. Orgasm crashed the coconut oil recovery too, had so much libido and strong erections i had to fap.

Also copper is working for me wonderfully, too bad after some days It made me feel wanting to throw up and nausea all day. Could be low potassium symptom, I will try with electrolytes soon.
I feel this explanation is covering me and my reactions so well.

im trying to go easy on the fapping like every 2 days and its a struggle haha im finally feeling what its like to be sexually frustrated again and i kinda like it.

have you considered giving coconut oil a shot again? this time not fapping and hopping off after a few days to let your body readjust?
must have been the heavy prolactin making you crash

 

[freeflow]

im trying to go easy on the fapping like every 2 days and its a struggle haha im finally feeling what its like to be sexually frustrated again and i kinda like it.

have you considered giving coconut oil a shot again? this time not fapping and hopping off after a few days to let your body readjust?
must have been the heavy prolactin making you crash

Of course I tried it later but all the effects I can induce with 5aris now is the typical finasteride effects like: anxiety, worrying, and insomnia. Then it passes in 1-2 days and I get back to normal baseline. And i dont think the prolactin spike is causing me to crash, there must be many things happening during ejaculation, but i dont know what it could be.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Of course I tried it later but all the effects I can induce with 5aris now is the typical finasteride effects like: anxiety, worrying, and insomnia. Then it passes in 1-2 days and I get back to normal baseline. And i dont think the prolactin spike is causing me to crash, there must be many things happening during ejaculation, but i dont know what it could be.

Are you still drinking tomato juice or cut it out?

 

[Niles]

One of the most difficult things about this is that PFS isn't just one kind of imbalance - some could be high NADPH low NADP while others are the opposite, some could be high 5-alpha low 5-beta while others are opposite. This is why we see a wide variety of symptoms and why protocols that help some hurt others. I think it would be beneficial for us to start collecting and analyzing stats forum-wide, like how baseline symptoms correlate to response to certain protocols, blood tests, hair tests, etc. Some correlations are already somewhat clear, like with mineral imbalances and such, but others involving NADPH/NADP and 5-alpha/5-beta are sketchy at best. We should start quantifying the anecdotal evidence and connect some dots to identify what the different types of imbalances look like, since there's already a wealth of data on here.