General Chat

[RebelWithACause]

5AR is definitely a balancing act.

Too high = too much GABA suppressing neurotransmitters. I do feel stable and level headed but you also feel "older" and less interested in status, money and improving plus I feel less connected to people around me just less interest in life in general. I just don't give a shit pretty much. It's like you are shielded from everything to the point it also shields you from the good stuff.
Good thing about not giving a shit is that you avoid drama and you don't get into petty arguments about nonsense. Interest in sex in the mind is lower but when it comes to physically having sex I never have a problem even in stressful environments or situations. This makes me feel the furthest away from that "feeling alive" feeling. I think this might be close to hypothyroidism when this happens. But at the same time this state is pure physicality. There is no layer of emotions. Sex is purely the physical act for example.

Too low = too much excitory neurotransmitters, I can get really ragey and emotional if this happens. More chaotic and less grounded. You lack GABA activation to keep you levelheaded during times of stress. Dick doesn't work in stressful situations. Logically you have too much excitory neurotransmitters so stress hits you harder and you can't get your dick up. You feel like you are in danger more. I do feel more motivated to do better in life even when 5AR is too low. Probably because thyroid works better in this state unless 5ar is way too low (low 5ar can cause hypothyroidism). I bet if you have a very low stress environment you could still get an erection even with low DHT. But it's much harder.

Too high still feels better than too low though. I rather be more stable than being stressed. But both sucks to be honest. Because you lack something in both...

I also notice different people are attracted to me when I was using finasteride. Now I meet those people and it's like we don't mesh at all. Including those women. Makes sense if you are calmer you also attract calmer people and vice versa.

I learned this all from Helen of course but it's interesting as I have noticed similarities.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause So how you go about balancing it day by day without drugs, hormones. Just diet, supps with essential micronutrients..

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause So how you go about balancing it day by day without drugs, hormones. Just diet, supps with essential micronutrients..

You can't balance it day by day. Well you can with drugs. And you will feel better. Or you take high dosages of vitamins and minerals you can balance it day by day. What you really want is a clean body that uses food properly and it will balance itself daily. But that only happens if your body is clean. Best thing is to eat a diet that supports your oxidation and weaknesses and on top of that add some supplements that help. Those weakness are different per person. Like I had low NADPH low 5AR. So I need to do different things from a person who had a good puberty but other weaknesses.

I never had iron issues for example. Some people do they have insane amounts of iron. I don't. Others might have other mineral problems. I used to think I had iron issues but it was a different problem. I think I had more likely low iron whole life.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause how do you know your iron status based on feritin? SOme people say you can have low feritin and still a lot of iron in the tissues that can't be used who knows. My theory is that if you are eating decent amount of red meat and you are not bleeding periodically for some reason you are slowly accumulating iron..

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause how do you know your iron status based on feritin? SOme people say you can have low feritin and still a lot of iron in the tissues that can't be used who knows. My theory is that if you are eating decent amount of red meat and you are not bleeding periodically for some reason you are slowly accumulating iron..

I just do everything by how I feel which I know is wrong from a scientific point of view. But I notice I never react bad to iron. Unless I take insane amounts which I don't. Never do bad on red meat. I had other issues which I thought were iron. But I also know some people who have very high iron they can't even eat iron they get anger and bloated.

But I do think if you have a very low metabolism eating a lot of iron is probably not good. But neither is eating anything unbalanced in a low metabolism state. It just causes toxicities.

I think Helen was right people have different choke points but they have similar issues at the same time, like same type of end result. You need to figure out what your weaknesses are and also what nutrients you lost for example through your life. For example people who go to war and get very high cortisol for months you lose a lot of nutrients. If you don't fix that you get problems. Same could be said for other traumatic and stressful events.

 

[RebelWithACause]

5AR is definitely a balancing act.

Too high = too much GABA suppressing neurotransmitters. I do feel stable and level headed but you also feel "older" and less interested in status, money and improving plus I feel less connected to people around me just less interest in life in general. I just don't give a shit pretty much. It's like you are shielded from everything to the point it also shields you from the good stuff.
Good thing about not giving a shit is that you avoid drama and you don't get into petty arguments about nonsense. Interest in sex in the mind is lower but when it comes to physically having sex I never have a problem even in stressful environments or situations. This makes me feel the furthest away from that "feeling alive" feeling. I think this might be close to hypothyroidism when this happens. But at the same time this state is pure physicality. There is no layer of emotions. Sex is purely the physical act for example.

Too low = too much excitory neurotransmitters, I can get really ragey and emotional if this happens. More chaotic and less grounded. You lack GABA activation to keep you levelheaded during times of stress. Dick doesn't work in stressful situations. Logically you have too much excitory neurotransmitters so stress hits you harder and you can't get your dick up. You feel like you are in danger more. I do feel more motivated to do better in life even when 5AR is too low. Probably because thyroid works better in this state unless 5ar is way too low (low 5ar can cause hypothyroidism). I bet if you have a very low stress environment you could still get an erection even with low DHT. But it's much harder.

Too high still feels better than too low though. I rather be more stable than being stressed. But both sucks to be honest. Because you lack something in both...

I also notice different people are attracted to me when I was using finasteride. Now I meet those people and it's like we don't mesh at all. Including those women. Makes sense if you are calmer you also attract calmer people and vice versa.

I learned this all from Helen of course but it's interesting as I have noticed similarities.

Also mostly why finasteride helps is because it takes away DHT. But you still miss it. A healthy human (male) has good DHT levels. But high DHT levels in compromised metabolism can do damage obviously by pushing body even lower on nitric oxide production long term if it's not fixed. So you just take away an element that makes it worse but not the main problem obviously. It just helps at that point.

My friend uses finasteride he has a good life not much problems but you can 100% tell he is lower on DHT. Just the way he acts. More flamboyant, more outspoken, more talkative, etc. He also more focussed towards fast highs like dopamine. Not a stable personality. More like women are. It's very obvious. Unless you have some genetic or toxic metal issue which pushing your DHT over the charts like Helen had then of course it's not the same.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause
"But I do think if you have a very low metabolism eating a lot of iron is probably not good. But neither is eating anything unbalanced in a low metabolism state. It just causes toxicities."

But iron is different from any other micronutrient. Even if your metabolism is great and everything your body simply doesn't have any effective way how to lower iron apart from bleeding. So you can feel good on red meat. I feel to. But down the road you will have to deal with that excess of iron. Your body can lower iron absorption especially that non heme iron type from plants, but if you eat red meat and you don't block the iron from absorbing by stuff like EGCG, calcium etc.. You will always absorb good amount and if you don't donate blood or not loosing blood in any other way you are loosing only like 1 max 2mg of iron a day..
I think iron metabolism works like this because evolutionary it is important to stay alive so you can reproduce. So in case of some chronic blood loss from parasites, insects or some bigger injury etc. the body will have plenty of stored iron to make new blood, but evolution doesn't give a shit if you live till 100yo in good health.. So there wasn't any pressure to deal with this iron overload that will eventually happen IF you are eating meats and you are not loosing that blood...
If you look around on all those 90+yo people looking good without age spots etc.. I don't see them eating red meat/organ meat diets.. I think rd meat is very healthy, BUT you have to somehow deal with that iron..
I think Jacob and his HG7 and just regular mineral balancing is huge in that regard. We really want to prevent accumulation of those heavy metals and iron and copper as well and keep intake of those like selenium, zinc that are easily lost when we ar exposed to those antagonistic metals nonstop..

 

[RebelWithACause]

It could be safer and steroids in general even natural ones probably make you live less long POTENTIALLY (not 100% guaranteed). Iron is also part of steroids cluster even Helen said keeping iron lower is good (lowers steroids). But he also said that when you are active you are more likely deficient unless you have metabolic problems (e.g. your body can't even create cortisol properly or low glutathione, etc.)

I have also had low iron and it sucks you feel flat and your metabolism drops. It's not good either. If you ignore that becuase of a belief you'll suffer too. All this stuff is interconnected.

Of course people when they have a slow metabolism for a long time they will feel better from lower iron and take more stuff that speeds up metabolism and detoxify the stuff that they stored because of their low metabolism. it's logical. Nothing new or special. You took steroids probably retained a lot of iron.

People go too far and think everyone is like this. That is short sighted. And it is also the reason why you need to figure stuff out yourself or you will always be dependant on some static belief. Not saying you do that I actually learned from your posts back in the day. But it's more general for people doing this health stuff.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause I didn't said iron deficient is good or iron is bad. I said iron overload is bad.. It is about balance obviously. If you were low iron you need more iron. If you are 20yo vegan girl with heavy periods you need steak every day obviously. I am not crazy like Robbins who things everyone is iron toxic. I just said if you are male especially older male and you eat meat all the time and you are not bleeding for some reason. Your iron is probably higher than ideal. That's all I am saying.

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause I didn't said iron deficient is good or iron is bad. I said iron overload is bad.. It is about balance obviously. If you were low iron you need more iron. If you are 20yo vegan girl with heavy periods you need steak every day obviously. I am not crazy like Robbins who things everyone is iron toxic. I just said if you are male especially older male and you eat meat all the time and you are not bleeding for some reason. Your iron is probably higher than ideal. That's all I am saying.

Fair enough dude. I think in a high metabolism you'll use iron, copper, etc. all fine it is used in a lot of processes when the body has a good metabolism. In a slow metabolism everything can be bad almost because you barely use anything. Even if you take minerals that support oxidation doesn't mean your body uses them all when it is slow.

Maybe iron is worse. I doubt it from my experience it's not hard to get deficient unless you have some slow metabolism and don't do anything or there is something really wrong with your metabolism. Which yes is the case with a lot of people who have CFS and stuff.

I have been very deficient in iron long term for periods and nothing good comes from it. It didn't make me look younger either or have some benefit. That's why I think some people might have less iron problems but more like mercury. And others maybe those stereotypical high testosterone males they tend to store a lot of iron because they have high testosterone from a young age (starts in the womb even) and eventually get high DHT and high cortisol low nitric oxide and lose their hair from that. They are probably iron toxic especially as they get older and body is less able to use the iron. Or like you, you used steroids long term in a slower metabolism you kept iron absorption high.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause
" I think in a high metabolism you'll use iron, copper, etc. all fine it is used in a lot of processes when the body has a good metabolism."
No your body has limited use for iron and if you keep eating some stupid high red meat diet like many people do today and don't donate blood or block that iron absorption it will be problematic down the road.. Don't know why you are keep saying that you were deficient and nothing good came from it.
I will say for the last time I never said deficiency is good. We need balance. YOu think the body can balance itself. I say down the road the body can't. Because evolutionary we don't have good pathway for that. SO we need to be aware of that and "biohack" that like many cultures do. Like in Japan with green tea etc...
You feeling good on iron is irrelevant to what I am saying.. THis is like that debate about mental stress influencing physical health.. It gets nowhere.. Im done bye.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Bro why you want to argue for the sake of arguing. Even Helen said iron is used up in processes in high metabolism. Iron is used also in making cortisol, pregnenalone, nitric oxide, 5ar hormones, etc. Without iron you lose that. It's easy to get low on iron unless you do some crazy stuff like carnivore diet where they eat red meat all the time with no deviation. Those people literally only eat red meat. That will lack a lot of stuff to have a good metabolism and utilise it properly.

I notice this myself too it's very easy to get lower iron. Unless you are inactive and do a carnivore diet with a bunch of fat lowering metabolism to low now why you need cortisol in this case? Or you take steroids. Or other things that help metabolism when you are slow anyways you just store it. No need for me to block absorption. I would feel bad from blocking absorption.

You do you bro I am not here to convince you or other people. Just put my thoughts out there. I think I am right in this case. But you don't agree that's OK too. Go do what you believe in.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause
"Bro why you want to argue for the sake of arguing. Even Helen said iron is used up in processes in high metabolism. Iron is used also in making cortisol, pregnenalone, nitric oxide, 5ar hormones, etc. Without iron you lose that."

You don't understand the most important fact. Iron is used, but not used up.. Same thing with copper. They are used in that process as a tool. Once that peptide, protein, enzyme whatever is done and breaks down the iron is still there. It doesn't magically disappear.
So the more metabolically active you are the more iron you need overal. But that doesn't mean that by increasing metabolic rate you will magically eliminate excess of iron if you have some do you understand?

Eventually your metabolic rate will slow down and the need for iron will be lower and lower, but that iron will be still there IF you are keep ingesting it and you don't lower it in effective way like with bleeding..

 

[RebelWithACause]

@RebelWithACause
"Bro why you want to argue for the sake of arguing. Even Helen said iron is used up in processes in high metabolism. Iron is used also in making cortisol, pregnenalone, nitric oxide, 5ar hormones, etc. Without iron you lose that."

You don't understand the most important fact. Iron is used, but not used up.. Same thing with copper. They are used in that process as a tool. Once that peptide, protein, enzyme whatever is done and breaks down the iron is still there. It doesn't magically disappear.
So the more metabolically active you are the more iron you need overal. But that doesn't mean that by increasing metabolic rate you will magically eliminate excess of iron if you have some do you understand?

Eventually your metabolic rate will slow down and the need for iron will be lower and lower, but that iron will be still there IF you are keep ingesting it and you don't lower it in effective way like with bleeding..

Ok I thought iron just like other minerals (copper) is used for processes and this "uses it up" so to speak Just like copper, zinc, etc. all these minerals are used in processes this is why you can be deficient in them especially fast oxidizers. This is why some people do get low iron even when they don't take iron blockers. They do not bleed nothing. It could also be low stomach acid for some of course which is pretty much the same as blocking absorption except they also don't get other minerals in. Although most iron blockers also block other minerals because they bind to it.

This is probably why some athletes go on TRT also, to increase iron retention and increase hemaglobin. Their body uses a lot of iron to create cortisol, hemaglobin, hormones, etc. So they take some steroids and it takes the pressure off.

Of course in a slow metabolism you will not use the iron. Just like you will not use other minerals either. The slower you are the less your body will use the stuff that is used in a normal-fast metabolism. So then it's better to avoid it. So for older people it might be better. But if you everything right and your metabolism speeds up you will need those things. Or you just live forever like that and die in a slow metabolism. Eventually you have to avoid everything. Then fasting might be beneficial but if you never raise your metabolic rate after you also do not really get the benefits of a healthy body.

To be fair your thought of it being an evolutionary thing makes sense too. Maybe one day I will regret eating this iron. Although my diet is relatively low, nothing crazy.

 

[zancek0]

Iron is used, but not used up.. Same thing with copper. They are used in that process as a tool. Once that peptide, protein, enzyme whatever is done and breaks down the iron is still there. It doesn't magically disappear.
So the more metabolically active you are the more iron you need overal.

This is often an overlooked point imo.

Of course, it is not a coincidence that in faster metabolism there's more bile being released and there's less constipation; and it's also not a coincidence that people with fast metabolism sweat more (at least in principle)... So the body is trying to get rid of iron that it uses (via bile and a lot via skin).
But that might not be enough/fast enough in many cases.

 

[RebelWithACause]

It makes no sense to me why it is stored in this case. I understand it if it works the same like copper, zinc which are stored when not needed in a slow metabolism. Why is iron different? Is it the evolutionary part? Because in that case it means you block iron from stomach for no reason? When will the body use the iron that is stored? It still needs to transport it and stuff. It makes no sense to me. Sounds like someone who stores excessively that could have those problems.

It could mean that blocking it doesn't help either in this case.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I do read it can be ran down through metabolism demands. So that makes more sense to me. But yea iron probably harder to get low. But I've seen a bunch of people bloodwork online with low iron in organs and intake was normal. Some of them had stomach issues but others were very active like athletes. That's all I wanted to say really. I wish you guys good luck.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause No iron behaves completely different from light metal like zinc. Zinc is easily lost with sweat, urine, semen.. Copper can be dumped with bile if the bile flow is working, but iron is simply recycled all the time. It has no pathway of elimination as I said to you many times. Yes healthy individual can use more iron, but if he has high intake(the body can limit absorption only to the point) you will simply slowly accumulate more and more and with aging you need less and less iron so there will be more iron going around causing oxidative stress. That's why it is longevity hack to donate blood. To block absorption with stuff like EGCG from green tea with meals etc.

Just ask chatGPT. I can't copy anything here I don't know why.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Fair enough!