HELP from old members to new members

[supernature]

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[Yura]

I am not fan of legumes or pork at all. But avoiding gluten in form of pasta, toast breads etc. can do only good. Btw I am not sure which tests you can do for water soluble vitamins? It must be very accurate test lol..

 

[MNK99]

Pigs are dirty animals. Most animals are dirty, but pigs are gross, running around in filth all the time, rolling around just lapping it up, disgusting.

 

[supernature]

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[Yura]

How many people can do this kind of tests? In my country they are not available for example...

 

[supernature]

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[Yura]

I bet they are and have been available for many years. Other is question how reliable and detailed are, thats why one is better of using reputable lab as they have in Netherlands or send its 5ml sample to the states directly. Why you are asking, i though you are not interested in reliable testing, but enjoying better reading google indexed articles.

Here in CZ you can't even test reverse T3 let alone thiamine lol. I am not interested in testing because I don't have a lot of money. So I will buy some good food instead of eating dirt and have lab test of my thiamine LOL..

 

[MNK99]

Lol what?! Can you explain further how you can eat pizza without ingesting the gluten?

If you send me a photo of the pizza in question, I can edit out the elements that are to be discarded. It gets very difficult when avoiding gluten, carbs, and lactose tho... Picture a Japanese Automotive Manufacturing Robot.

At some point, it's more efficient to just get different food, as it produces too much waste. Can work if you don't want to make food tho and are in a rush.
Some criticisms of this technique are that it's "no longer a pizza." Or that it is "Destroying a work of art." Montreal Pizza is the best in Canada by far. And Halifax Donair. T.O. pizza is like tomato sauce spray-painted (poorly) onto a piece of cardboard, that was disposed of by a streetwalker, in a Red-Light District alley.

 

[bruschi11]

To any of the guys here with experience of this @bruschi11 @MNK99 @mattyb @TubZy @Goose12 and of course anybody else who can offer assistance with this.

I'm coming up to six days completed on the water fast (aiming for ten) and I need to start preparing how I'm going to break it and re-feed. I see over and over again that the re-feed is more crucial than the fast itself so I want to get this absolutely right to avoid wasting the work that's gone into the fast.

Firstly, do I reasonably need to worry about refeeding syndrome? According to this Refeeding syndrome: what it is, and how to prevent and treat it

"Any patient with negligible food intake for more than five days is at risk of developing refeeding problems."

However, I see multiple people on this forum who have done extended fasts with no mention of refeeding syndrome.

Do I need to be taking electrolyte supps during the fast and during the re-feed? I was going to start the electrolyte protocol once my refeed was complete, however, these quotes from the reddit fasting sub have me concerned:

"I can't see you mention electrolytes anywhere in your post and if you are doing numerous fasts you will be very deficient at this point. Fasting without electrolytes is extremely dangerous and bad for your health."

"Your body needs electrolytes to regulate all kind of things, some examples include: controlling your heart rhythm, nervous system and regulating your water balance. You need them to function basically and the nooby error is to take the name water fast seriously and only injest water, being deficient will make you feel bad and also it is dangerous to your health. This can be avoided with medical grade electrolyte supplements (usually capsules you can buy), rock salt which has salt and small amounts of many other electrolytes, LoSalt which has potassium and salt, or refined table salt which is salt and usually salt forms of iodine (an attempt to reduce iodine deficiency which affects about 2 billion people). The longer your fast the more you should take actual electrolyte supplements seriously as they will contain the right balance needed."

Once I know the answer to this I can order the supps from Amazon on next day delivery.

Secondly, I've looked around this forum and others for advice on what the food I re-feed with should be. I'm going to quote some of the advice I'm going to follow then
ask of you guys if there's anything I'm missing or anything that should be reconsidered considering my current pfs/cfs state:

"The important part is the proper refeed, which would include HCl and electrolytes, this is what causes the rebirth after fasting."

"Mattyb breaking fast protocol:
Days 1-7
Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium
Calories will still be low at this point, you'll likely regain some water weight but continue to lose fat
Vegetable broths, soups, well cooked vegetables, cooked leafy greens, etc.
Maybe some rice
Minimal herbs/spices
A bit of fats (eggs, butter) mixed in with the soups
Not very much protein, if any
Introduce food/calories slowly"

As always, I have immense gratitude for any help that anyone can offer. You guys have already helped me so much so far.

There is a great refeeding link somewhere on this site. Man I’m out right now but if I was on a computer I could find it. It’s from earliest days here back in October. I think @mattyb may have posted it.

 

[supernature]

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[MNK99]

@Concerned and any Fasters/Newcomers:
Re: Refeed after Extended Fasting
-From Mattyb. And also: this page, Your break-fast recipes & how it felt --Post #12 and also Egg soup, etc.

Days 1-7:
Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium
Calories will still be low at this point, you'll likely regain some water weight but continue to lose fat
Vegetable broths, soups, well cooked vegetables, cooked leafy greens, etc.
Maybe some rice
Minimal herbs/spices
A bit of fats (eggs, butter) mixed in with the soups
Not very much protein, if any
Introduce food/calories slowly

Days 7-21:
Anything from days 1-7 would be fine
Calorie intake will be slightly low, trending towards maintenance near the third week
Fresh vegetables and greens marinated in olive oil/vinegar
Some herbs/spices
More rice, maybe some well-cooked oats, small amounts of fruit, possibly small amounts of tubers
Small amounts of well cooked meat/seafood daily (slow roasted would be a good option)
Increase fat and protein gradually to get pancreas and gallbladder up to speed over these two weeks.

Days 21+:
Everything from before is fine
Calories should be around maintenance near this point
By this point you should be able to exercise easily
More fruit, more carbohydrates (according to activity levels)
More foods high in manganese (oats, cereals, etc.) if well tolerated
More meat (and/or supplement zinc)
Tubers could be introduced if well tolerated
Should be hitting near the RDA of most vitamins/minerals by this point, with maybe the exception of calcium and vitamins e/d.
If digestion is robust at this point you can likely eat whatever your intuition is pushing you towards

 

[Concerned]

@Concerned and any Fasters/Newcomers:
Re: Refeed after Extended Fasting
-From Mattyb. And also: this page, Your break-fast recipes & how it felt --Post #12 and also Egg soup, etc.

Days 1-7:
Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium
Calories will still be low at this point, you'll likely regain some water weight but continue to lose fat
Vegetable broths, soups, well cooked vegetables, cooked leafy greens, etc.
Maybe some rice
Minimal herbs/spices
A bit of fats (eggs, butter) mixed in with the soups
Not very much protein, if any
Introduce food/calories slowly

Days 7-21:
Anything from days 1-7 would be fine
Calorie intake will be slightly low, trending towards maintenance near the third week
Fresh vegetables and greens marinated in olive oil/vinegar
Some herbs/spices
More rice, maybe some well-cooked oats, small amounts of fruit, possibly small amounts of tubers
Small amounts of well cooked meat/seafood daily (slow roasted would be a good option)
Increase fat and protein gradually to get pancreas and gallbladder up to speed over these two weeks.

Days 21+:
Everything from before is fine
Calories should be around maintenance near this point
By this point you should be able to exercise easily
More fruit, more carbohydrates (according to activity levels)
More foods high in manganese (oats, cereals, etc.) if well tolerated
More meat (and/or supplement zinc)
Tubers could be introduced if well tolerated
Should be hitting near the RDA of most vitamins/minerals by this point, with maybe the exception of calcium and vitamins e/d.
If digestion is robust at this point you can likely eat whatever your intuition is pushing you towards

Thank you very much @MNK99.

When he says "Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium", does anyone else know if can I get that straight from the food suggested or is supplementation required? Also, is the full egg allowed or are only egg whites recommended at this stage?

 

[Orion]

Thank you very much@MNK99.

When he says "Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium", does anyone else know if can I get that straight from the food suggested or is supplementation required? Also, is the full egg allowed or are only egg whites recommended at this stage?

These suggestion are for long 20-to-40 day fasts, 10 days can be broken more easily. But using extra chloride salts and full egg will help, just go slowly and and see how your digestive tract reacts.

 

[MNK99]

"particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium"
I think Himalayan Pink Sea Salt and other better salts (I haven't got those other ones yet), works for that. Not sure about eggs immediately... depends on length of the fast. If ending at 6 days it is probably fine enough, titrating upwards slowly from 1 egg. I'm sure others know... Also there is no perfect fast, refeed, nor most of these things. So being as close as possible to "perfect" and consistent in approaches is ideal. Others say "set it and forget it", I can't really do that... and couldn't before, but small successes cascade into larger ones.

 

[Concerned]

These suggestion are for long 20-to-40 day fasts, 10 days can be broken more easily. But using extra chloride salts and full egg will help, just go slowly and and see how your digestive tract reacts.

Thanks Orion

"particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium"
I think Himalayan Pink Sea Salt and other better salts (I haven't got those other ones yet), works for that. Not sure about eggs immediately... depends on length of the fast. If ending at 6 days it is probably fine enough, titrating upwards slowly from 1 egg. I'm sure others know... Also there is no perfect fast, refeed, nor most of these things. So being as close as possible to "perfect" and consistent in approaches is ideal. Others say "set it and forget it", I can't really do that... and couldn't before, but small successes cascade into larger ones.

Ok that I can do, Tesco do the pink sea salt here https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/289130576.

You're right about there being no perfect size fits all approach here too. I just really want to make sure I don't render the whole fast pointless by overlooking something. Looks like it's going to be lemon, egg and chicken broths for the first few days with the salt seasoned in.

No one has mentioned electrolyte supplements during the fast and re-feed yet so I assume I can wait until I'm back to eating semi-regularly until I begin those.

 

[MNK99]

I think it's safe to wait for the electrolyte supplements, others may disagree. I think it's up in the air. I did try some salt at the time, but it didn't help me... I thought it would help digestion (there isn't any though, bc there's no eating, at least not for me at that time). I know some people did take salt at times... I wouldn't try and follow an ARL or other balancing program while fasting. I think it's good to do, in subsequent stages of your plan, after major implements like Andro or ru/ella, just to increase the chance of "snapback", perhaps.

 

[Yura]

I think that the best salt is redmond real salt. http://www.amazon.com/REDMOND-Real-Sea-Salt-Unrefined/dp/B000R5PKD0?th=1

 

[mattyb]

Thank you very much @MNK99.

When he says "Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium", does anyone else know if can I get that straight from the food suggested or is supplementation required? Also, is the full egg allowed or are only egg whites recommended at this stage?

Sodium, magnesium, and potassium should come from broths and well cooked vegetables/greens. You can also start the electrolyte protocol at that time, but it isn't necessary.

Full egg is preferred. Need some fat to get the bile moving again after a long fast.

Keep in mind those recommendations I made are for people coming out of a ~30 day fast. You can essentially cut the duration of each stage down to match the duration of your fast. So if you fasted for one week, for the refeed you spend 1-2 days on the first section, 2-3 days on the second section, and 1-3 days on the third section.

 

[Concerned]

Sodium, magnesium, and potassium should come from broths and well cooked vegetables/greens. You can also start the electrolyte protocol at that time, but it isn't necessary.

Full egg is preferred. Need some fat to get the bile moving again after a long fast.

Keep in mind those recommendations I made are for people coming out of a ~30 day fast. You can essentially cut the duration of each stage down to match the duration of your fast. So if you fasted for one week, for the refeed you spend 1-2 days on the first section, 2-3 days on the second section, and 1-3 days on the third section.

That’s really helpful advice matty, thanks for clarifying that, definitely simplifies what I have to do.


Almost at seven days fasted now, pushing for ten. Man am I looking forward to eating again.

 

[Shanks]

I got also a question to ARL supplement program (fast oxidizer):

I am adviced to take Endo-Met Limcomin like: AM 2x NOON 2x PM 2x

With this i get about 30 mg Manganese per day!

although i have a deficit this amount seems crazy high for me. On some sites i read that our body is containg about 40 mg Manganese...

Has anybody taken Limcomin yet and can report about it?