HIGH and LOW DHT and PFS cases ( protocols , explanations, theories)

[Helen]

Try R andro with copper and potassium. Copper decreased the horrible low E symptoms, I got insane lethargy on R andro, same goes for vitamin E.
And potassium will save you from dying.

this is what I gave to Scenes, remember, basically copper and potassium allows DHT work again.

since DHT lowers copper and potassium.

TEI is giving him tons of copper though.



This is why we see in CSF low estro, dht, progesterone. and pregnenolone

estro increases copper, progesterone potassium.

 

[Admiral]

Tons of copper for me for a while now, estrogen remains baseline.

 

[Jaxx]

Emotional numbness is estrogen related.

Gaba increases calcium which slows down thyroid.

when thyroid is slow, estrogen is not allowed.( biounavailable copper)


That is why estrogen could be used for PSSD, to actually force copper in, which will downregulate gaba.

And this is why acetylcholine works, or thyroid since both lower calcium and increase estrogen


when your cell is calcified you feel NOTHING

perhaps you are right, but i still wonder. anhedonia is well documented in major depression and almost always treated with tca's or maoi's.

 

[freeflow]

Tons of copper for me for a while now, estrogen remains baseline.

If you have low estro symptoms even now, r andro will be next level killer. I dont want to scare you but on estrogen blocking i become a totally different person, very bitter and hurts all my relationships.

 

[Admiral]

Yeah I am pairing it with 4-Andro, which should help a bit, but also looking to add some form of estrogen.

 

[RebelWithACause]

My friends who do bodybuilding always say they prefer high estrogen over low estrogen.

With low estrogen every day is a challenge - everything is dull, including food, socialising, relationships, etc. You just want to do nothing. Also this dry mouth and sweating a lot for no reason. No pump in the gym. You get really pissed off for no reason at people who look at you the wrong way. Stuff like that. You feel 80 years OLD. I think most guys have experienced this at some point.

Too high estrogen and I think you just become too emotional and disconnected from reality. Bloated, Fantasizing, Live in a dream world. Food tastes "AMAZING" (like how girls like food), etc.

 

[Trump_1776]

Yeah I am pairing it with 4-Andro, which should help a bit, but also looking to add some form of estrogen.

I covered this briefly in my log, 4-Andro will suppress you. Plan accordingly - wouldn't wish that feeling on ANYONE

My friends who do bodybuilding always say they prefer high estrogen over low estrogen.

With low estrogen every day is a challenge - everything is dull, including food, socialising, relationships, etc. You just want to do nothing. Also this dry mouth and sweating a lot for no reason. No pump in the gym. You get really pissed off for no reason at people who look at you the wrong way. Stuff like that. You feel 80 years OLD. I think most guys have experienced this at some point.

Too high estrogen and I think you just become too emotional and disconnected from reality. Fantasizing, Live in a dream world.

Dude - After my 4-andro run, I had high estrogen for a while until I did a clomid run for a week. I fell back in love with my Ex-gf and contacted her. Needless to say that didn't end well and now looking back at it I laugh cause you know, fuck it, but that shit is fucked bruv

 

[Admiral]

My friends who do bodybuilding always say they prefer high estrogen over low estrogen.

With low estrogen every day is a challenge - everything is dull, including food, socialising, relationships, etc. You just want to do nothing. Also this dry mouth and sweating a lot for no reason. No pump in the gym. You get really pissed off for no reason at people who look at you the wrong way. Stuff like that. You feel 80 years OLD. I think most guys have experienced this at some point.

Too high estrogen and I think you just become too emotional and disconnected from reality. Bloated, Fantasizing, Live in a dream world. Food tastes "AMAZING" (like how girls like food), etc.

Yeah you described me a in a nutshell. Worked out hard core for nearly a decade without anything to show for it. I mean nothing. Even personal trainers had no clue. You look old as fuck with low E as well.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Yeah you described me a in a nutshell. Worked out hard core for nearly a decade without anything to show for it. I mean nothing. Even personal trainers had no clue. You look old as fuck with low E as well.

Yes low estrogen will make you look old. Part of it is psychological though. In low E you notice imperfections in everybody. Even girls who are hot. With high estrogen it can be the opposite. You can be highly attracted to an average girl. You do not see imperfections like that (wrinkles, fat, etc.)

So when you have low E and you look in the mirror sometimes you can think you are ugly or looking like shit. Meanwhile other people do not see it.

On last TEI cycle I still got good pump and actually gained muscle where people commented on it in a 8 week period. Now on this cycle I have almost no pump and no strength. Gonna be a good ride HAHA.

On low estrogen your creativity is also not there.

 

[Brute]

My friends who do bodybuilding always say they prefer high estrogen over low estrogen.

With low estrogen every day is a challenge - everything is dull, including food, socialising, relationships, etc. You just want to do nothing. Also this dry mouth and sweating a lot for no reason. No pump in the gym. You get really pissed off for no reason at people who look at you the wrong way. Stuff like that. You feel 80 years OLD. I think most guys have experienced this at some point.

Too high estrogen and I think you just become too emotional and disconnected from reality. Bloated, Fantasizing, Live in a dream world. Food tastes "AMAZING" (like how girls like food), etc.

Nice, so I have low and high estrogen at the same time..

Generally I think I can agree with you, although I'd say getting pissed off at people (at least bitching at them) is usually more high estrogen. But not liking to be around people so much definitely low estrogen. But I doubt it's that simple. Many other things come to play. But yeah, the obsession in many circles to completely kill off estrogen in men is definitely not helpful, although in general most men are probably suffering from the opposite problem.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Nice, so I have low and high estrogen at the same time..

Generally I think I can agree with you, although I'd say getting pissed off at people is usually more high estrogen. But I doubt it's that simple. Many other things come to play. But yeah, the obsession in many circles to completely kill off estrogen in men is definitely not helpful, although in general most men are probably too faggoty and suffer from the opposite problem.

I think a lot of people are copper toxic, look it up if you have not. Which will raise estrogen. But it is not the right way I think. A lot of slow oxidizers are copper toxic for example. Also a lot of vegans are I think since they do not eat any zinc. So you become floaty and highly emotional. Also depressed, etc. But not because you are fast oxidizer but because you have too much copper.

I think high estrogen makes you calmer from what I can say from experience. But take this all with a grain of salt - I am just talking without any research. Purely WHAT I Think. It can make you depressed though. Too high estrogen.

Both if completely out of wack (way too low or way too high) can give bad symptoms. I think it is hard to pin point. But I have experienced both I think so I know a bit.

I think low estrogen is more stable. You feel less wacky. But everything is DULL. High estrogen everything is INTENSE. Emotions, food, sex, etc.

I think it depends on different bodies. There is a whole cycle before (fast oxidation, slow oxidation). There is too much factors.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Yeah, I'm aware of copper and estrogen. I'm also only talking from experience. I'm just saying there's other parameters to the equation than just copper, zinc, estrogen being high or low. But yeah in general those copper toxic or highly estrogenic people tend to be irrational, emotional, fat, depressed, bitchy. Low estrogen I'd say is having no or very few emotions, little motivation, being overly 'rational'. Yeah and the stability part is definitely very true. Whereas in high estrogen a person might be highly motivated to do something he might literally kill himself the next day. In low estrogen it's just a meh for both days.

Since I have some PSSD like symptoms from ashwagandha and/or DHT gel, I'm starting to think I'm copper deficient. I'll do some supplemental testing and if nothing works do more testing (as in blood work or hair testing.)

Estrogen:

It's M'AM!!!

 

[Admiral]

I covered this briefly in my log, 4-Andro will suppress you. Plan accordingly - wouldn't wish that feeling on ANYONE

Yet you came out better, right? As by your vote in the R-Andro poll..

 

[Helen]

People who feel bad on androgens. have low NADPH.


Basically when you take testosterone , testosterone starts binding your NADPH. and you crash. since you get hemolytic anemia. from very low tetrafolate. levels

when tetrafolate goes down, it takes histidine down with it.


this is why if you take folinic acid. along with testosterone, you simple dont crash and it works.



people need to follow what @tallglass13 is doing. he is doing the right thing



Without NADPH you have zero nitric oxide production.


Thus it is very bad to have sensitive DHT. since if you have DHT sensitive. this kills your NADPH production.

since NADPH makes DHT. and NADPH is what makes nitric oxide.

So when NADPH is available it is assumed that there is nitric oxide made and tetrafolate made and that is why DHT goes up by using NADPH.

but you with super sensitive DHT. you simply dont have NADPH made and insulin goes to zero. and thus there is no nitric oxide, and androgens feel bad.

 

[freeflow]

so tetrafolate or folinic acid would make the R andro rounds more bearable while still pushing the body chemistry in the right direction?!

 

[Admiral]

but you with super sensitive DHT. you simply dont have NADPH made and insulin goes to zero. and thus there is no nitric oxide, and androgens feel bad.

Spot on. I have low androgens, low insuline and there's something missing in my nitric oxide system. I used the nitric oxide protocol a while back before having sex and it was the first time since PFS I could have sex without taking cialis or viagra.

For me, or those like me, to get benefits from androgens such as R-Andro, we need to combine it with what exactly? @tallglass13 is actually taking a bunch of stuff. From his latest update:

Update:
I have been hitting the NO pretty hard, I'm using Dr. Lin's ArginOx product. It has b2, zinc, arginine, citruline, calcium, 5 htp. I'm taking that along with a few drops of Androsterone topically or 1 drop in my beer at night. Libido is high, night time erections are there. My penis looked a lot more strong and flaccid has been larger as well. I still use 6mg testosterone under tongue one time daily in morning. I'm going to stick with this. I use b1 more often now to, and it makes me very alert and I have good energy on it.
I dabble with thryroid, but I don't think its making as big of impact as does Arginine, Androsterone, testosterone. I spray t3 mixed in hydrogen water for hair .

That's a shit load of supplements..

 

[Helen]

Arginox has folinic acid

 

[Helen]

@Admiral I will try to write out nitric oxide protocols for different oxidation rates, since it is different

 

[Admiral]

You are the greatest!

 

[TubZy]

@Helen given slow oxidizers are copper toxic, what about niacin + vitamin C + copper taken together for fast oxidizers? There have been a few recoveries with high dose vitamin C and niacin (Hoffer method) which chelate copper and demethylate. Have you though about it more?