Jack17 PFS log

[Helen]

I was a Fast4 in my first hairiest, and a Slow1 in the second. Either way I don't sweat at all. The only thing that seems to be make me sweat is Tudca or to a lesser extent, taking tribulus.

Oddly before getting screwed over by accutane I actually think I sweated excessively for a while. Have read this could be down to thyroid or liver related issues, but not really sure.

were you 4 highs on the hairtest?

 

[tanedout]

were you 4 highs on the hairtest?

I was 4 lows on the first (Fast4), and on the second calcium and magnesium has risen to mid-range, and the others still low and I moved to Slow1. No change in the sweating though - i.e. none!

 

[RebelWithACause]

Sweating like a pig in the gym. But I am a Fast1 just like brix.

When I slow my metabolism a lot by eating a lot of fat for example I can stop sweating but I feel crappy.

 

[Helen]

I was 4 lows on the first (Fast4), and on the second calcium and magnesium has risen to mid-range, and the others still low and I moved to Slow1. No change in the sweating though - i.e. none!

4 lows is slow oxidation. always. burnt out fast oxidizer even slower than the slow oxidzier.

 

[Ingeno]

4 lows is slow oxidation. always. burnt out fast oxidizer even slower than the slow oxidzier.

Wouldn't dairy (calcium) and copper be bad then for 4 lows, even if labeled as fast oxidizer?

 

[vicecaz]

Yeah I don't sweat ever since I crashed either

I took 2 pills of TUDCA yesterday and started sweating a bit. I don't think it has to do with metabolism in our condition, though I'm a slow 1

 

[brix]

Yeah- agreed.

@brix I had the same as you and I'm a fast oxidizer as well. I was like always over sweating. One thing I found help is ice cream and eating lots of fats with calcium in it. Calcium lowers adrenaline and you sweat way way less.

I’ve been taken a lot of extra calcium lately and feel better. It’s cold as hell where I live right now but am curious if it will help with sweating.

 

[Jack17]

Update; ( again I am posting in part to remember where I am on this protocol)
Took fin 1/4 Friday two days ago. Feeling good. Better than baseline ( whatever that is) feel stronger libido. Feeling more confident. Having more anger ( normal to have. Not unexplained). Got into an argument with an idiot yesterday. I was thinking probably would have let it slid a month ago. Feel more inner drive and confident to have sex with wife ( haven’t been able to test this).
Workout is better than normal. Good feeling of wellbeing.
I started the SAMe and continue to take 200mg daily. I’m not sure if it’s helping but it seems like the day I started, that’s when I noticed more improvement. I’ve explained before why I started this.
The reason I mentioned sweating is not that I’m obsessed with it, just that it is an objective symptom. I stopped really sweating with PFS.
So far I would say this trial had been successful. It’s far to soon to make any conclusions and I would not recommend anyone try this.

 

[Jack17]

Update:
Took 1/4 propecia yesterday. I felt mentally very sharp and a lot of energy. Definitely an improvement, and I feel it has to be from the propecia. Libido yesterday was lower than normal. I have noticed this right after I dose, mentally feel good but libido drops for 1-2 days. But today libido is about 80% and significantly above baseline. I am trying to find objective symptoms and findings with this protocol. Today I noticed the my chest and shoulders feel bigger/muscular. My dress shirt is fitting a lot tighter in shoulder and chest and I remember that's how my shirts use to fit! (pre PFS) I have not changed my work out regimen so this is a good sign. My weight is down about 8 lbs ( I'm not over weight but 8 lbs lower is good and more like my pre PFS) Initially I was going to dose 1/4 or less every 1-2 weeks but it seems like dosing at 3-4 days is better as past that I get a drop off. During this regimen I already had a minor crash after dosing like a crumb and waiting a week. So an end point to keep in mind is how do you get off this???? But so far I am feel better, and to top it off I noticed this morning a lot of new hair growth!
So some thoughts: People that tried this protocol before and failed all took Fin daily ( I think.) The key is low dose and intermittent dosing. Maybe a daily dosing depletes something and this substrate depletion my be the source of PFS for those who crash while taking propecia. IDK.
I will try to get labs on Thursday.

 

[Helen]

Update:
Took 1/4 propecia yesterday. I felt mentally very sharp and a lot of energy. Definitely an improvement, and I feel it has to be from the propecia. Libido yesterday was lower than normal. I have noticed this right after I dose, mentally feel good but libido drops for 1-2 days. But today libido is about 80% and significantly above baseline. I am trying to find objective symptoms and findings with this protocol. Today I noticed the my chest and shoulders feel bigger/muscular. My dress shirt is fitting a lot tighter in shoulder and chest and I remember that's how my shirts use to fit! (pre PFS) I have not changed my work out regimen so this is a good sign. My weight is down about 8 lbs ( I'm not over weight but 8 lbs lower is good and more like my pre PFS) Initially I was going to dose 1/4 or less every 1-2 weeks but it seems like dosing at 3-4 days is better as past that I get a drop off. During this regimen I already had a minor crash after dosing like a crumb and waiting a week. So an end point to keep in mind is how do you get off this???? But so far I am feel better, and to top it off I noticed this morning a lot of new hair growth!
So some thoughts: People that tried this protocol before and failed all took Fin daily ( I think.) The key is low dose and intermittent dosing. Maybe a daily dosing depletes something and this substrate depletion my be the source of PFS for those who crash while taking propecia. IDK.
I will try to get labs on Thursday.

FIn daily would cause upregulation of the AR. since any dosage of fin that you are taking 1/4 1/2 suppressed DHT TOO MUCH in the moment so if you take it daily , your DHT will be very low , since your dosages are still big. but you take if with the span then this causes downregulation. since you take it it blocks NADPH, your body raises insulin, and then propecia goes away, but insulin is still high. and NADPH is higher than before.

This is like low dose naltrexone. you block opiods, and boom opidos become bigger

Hopefully more and more cycles you would do it will downregulate the ARs.

but you need to make cycles longer, otherwise it seems you just feel better on propecia itself,

like you take it, it drops your DHT too much and then it rises to the middle and you feel better until it rises higher. than the middle. this is what PFSStinks used to feel . he would take it , and write to me in PM. and he would take it feel like shit and then feel better while DHT was rising, and then if DHT went high , crash,



you need to slowly increase the span between the dosages if you want to come off propecia. that is what I suggested.


And yes, as I told you before, I had high DHT before I took fin, and when I was taking fin, I felt better everything, better libido, better energy better everything.

and as I stated if a person takes fin in a the right amount that person would not experience side effects

but people take too much of fin, fin inhibits DHT too much, NOT into the middle.

so taking fin now every 3 days, you basically taking much lower dosage of fin. which keeps your DHT close to the middle.


that is why people who take FIN for hairloss need to test their blood and see that their dosage of fin inhibits DHT into the middle.

then they would feel ok.

but we have people who take fin with LOW dht, and then they crash and get hemolytic anemia. from simply crashing without having NADPH.


and people who have high DHT, those people have low FAD. so when they inhibit NADPH a little, with fin , their FAD goes up.



NADPH oxidase is the enzyme which makes IODINE in the body from iodide.

NADPH oxidase is the enzyme which is FAD based, and has NADPH as a cofactor.



this is why some people felt better from Iodine. since if NADPH oxidase is not there, then you cant make iodine.

 

[Admiral]

FIn daily would cause upregulation of the AR. and this causes downregulation. since you take it it blocks NADPH, your body raises insulin, and then propecia goes away, but insulin is still high. and NADPH is higher than before.

This is like low dose naltrexone.

Hopefully more and more cycles you would do it will downregulate the ARs.

but you need to make cycles longer, otherwise it seems you just feel better on propecia itself,

like you take it, it drops your DHT too much and then it rises to the middle and you feel better until it rises higher.

you need to slowly increase the span between the dosages if you want to come off propecia. that is what I suggested.

The more I read about LDN, the more I like it. Most who tried it here didn't get lasting benefits, maybe the dose should be a bit higher.

Here's a thread at propeciahelp, where it seemed to helped a few.

Low Dose Naltrexone

Naltrexone

 

[Jack17]

LDN did nothing for me.

 

[JasonSky]

Update:
Took 1/4 propecia yesterday. I felt mentally very sharp and a lot of energy. Definitely an improvement, and I feel it has to be from the propecia. Libido yesterday was lower than normal. I have noticed this right after I dose, mentally feel good but libido drops for 1-2 days. But today libido is about 80% and significantly above baseline. I am trying to find objective symptoms and findings with this protocol. Today I noticed the my chest and shoulders feel bigger/muscular. My dress shirt is fitting a lot tighter in shoulder and chest and I remember that's how my shirts use to fit! (pre PFS) I have not changed my work out regimen so this is a good sign. My weight is down about 8 lbs ( I'm not over weight but 8 lbs lower is good and more like my pre PFS) Initially I was going to dose 1/4 or less every 1-2 weeks but it seems like dosing at 3-4 days is better as past that I get a drop off. During this regimen I already had a minor crash after dosing like a crumb and waiting a week. So an end point to keep in mind is how do you get off this???? But so far I am feel better, and to top it off I noticed this morning a lot of new hair growth!
So some thoughts: People that tried this protocol before and failed all took Fin daily ( I think.) The key is low dose and intermittent dosing. Maybe a daily dosing depletes something and this substrate depletion my be the source of PFS for those who crash while taking propecia. IDK.
I will try to get labs on Thursday.

You're a trooper brotha for experimenting for the good of all of us really, wish you the best of luck.

 

[Helen]

LDN did nothing for me.

I said same mechanism as LDN, you take something which is blocking opiods for short time. and you increase their levels))

LDN has nothing to do with FIN.

I just gave an example of mechanism how you block something for short time , increase its levels,

 

[Helen]

@Jack17 if someone takes fin daily. they cant increase levels of DHT. it is constantly suppressed and suppressed big. bigger than needed.

and some people take fin with low DHT. and that is crash city right away right on fin.

that is why for me, who had high DHT. fin was awesome, it was much btter than without fin. but the dosages has to be small

this is why when I took 7-8 mg for couple of days, I just crashed, same as LOW DHT people/

 

[Jack17]

I wonder if you could just stay on like a 1/4 tab, for example like every three days forever? I know propecia is dangerous but if you could like stay in a sweet spot area regarding a really low dose( maybe only for those with high DHT) ?? I think a lot of us actually felt good on it before we crashed. I mean if you could potentially have good libido and hair! It's a potentially dangerous proposition given the severity of the side effects. Just thinking out loud here...

 

[hairsuit]

@Jack17 if someone takes fin daily. they cant increase levels of DHT. it is constantly suppressed and suppressed big. bigger than needed.

and some people take fin with low DHT. and that is crash city right away right on fin.

that is why for me, who had high DHT. fin was awesome, it was much btter than without fin. but the dosages has to be small

this is why when I took 7-8 mg for couple of days, I just crashed, same as LOW DHT people/

@Helen I need to get labs, but again, supposedly genetically I should not be DHt dominant..... test still had hairloss, and didn’t crash until years into taking fin. How do we explain that?

 

[hairsuit]

I wonder if you could just stay on like a 1/4 tab, for example like every three days forever? I know propecia is dangerous but if you could like stay in a sweet spot area regarding a really low dose( maybe only for those with high DHT) ?? I think a lot of us actually felt good on it before we crashed. I mean if you could potentially have good libido and hair! It's a potentially dangerous proposition given the severity of the s effects. Just thinking out loud here...

But @Jack17 what you’re proposing is exactly the perfect scenario. Fin at a dose and frequency to get all the benefits, without enough systemic depletion of DHt to really cause permanent harm. I am just fascinated with the fact that it could possibly be the very thing that got us into this mess, that gets us out!!! Please keep us posted.

 

[Helen]

But @Jack17 what you’re proposing is exactly the perfect scenario. Fin at a dose and frequency to get all the benefits, without enough systemic depletion of DHt to really cause permanent harm. I am just fascinated with the fact that it could possibly be the very thing that got us into this mess, that gets us out!!! Please keep us posted.

I just proposed that to him in the post 90 )) if someone with high DHT takes finasteride in the right dosage, then no sides effects probably will be seen

but that is guessing. and we dont know long term implications from taking foreign matter


I would assume progesterone in that case would be doing the same thing in the right dosage since progesterone also binds NADPH same as finasteride.

the only difference with progesterone that it increases allopregnenolone. and finasteride lowers allopregnenolone.


so as I said it could be gaba related also which increases calcium in the cell and does all this mess.

 

[Helen]

@Helen I need to get labs, but again, supposedly genetically I should not be DHt dominant..... test still had hairloss, and didn’t crash until years into taking fin. How do we explain that?

as I said to you , hairloss in 50% has nothing to do with any DHT.

hairloss happens from lack of nitric oxide.

and nitric oxide can happen either from potassium side, or from DHT side.

DHT increases aldosterone so lowers potassium that causes hairloss since nitric oxide goes down, and antioxidation goes down.

but at the same time person can simply have low potassium which will cause low DHT and NADPH. and thus hairloss that is another side of the hairloss


taking fin may be can mask some of these things with high DHT cases. but I think the problem why DHT is high in those cases could stem from lack of glucorinidation.

thus in Gilberts syndrome we see male pattern baldness in most people.


So if you have low DHT, then you are different.



Dont forget that in some cases finasteride causes crazy hairloss and zero benefits for hair.