Do you know what is your total testosterone, free testosterone and DHT before to start this protocol?
In case you will win the game, it is important to know if it will be working for both, high and low testosterone guys.
In case you will win the game, it is important to know if it will be working for both, high and low testosterone guys.
@Helen Potassium high or low on the loss? And the hair test levels of potassium have nothing to do with this, correct? My potassium was Sky high on the hair test.
Is there a way we could do what @Jack17 is doing... just a short test, without crashing? For example, take a nibble of a pill and wait for 1 week, in hopes that if it wasn’t going to work for whatever body chemistry you are currently in, you could just stop without being set back for a year. I would think at that low a dose, it couldn’t detrimentally harm you if you stopped, but then again, who freaking knows.....
Good news. I’m trying to track objective info for recovery and last night I had a “wet dream”. I haven’t had that in 10+ years. It seems like a great sign that things are coming back online if you know what I mean. So current dosing is 1/4 tab every three days.
I would think starting 1/4 once a week and track your symptoms closely would be reasonable but it would probably be more reasonable to just wait a month. Give it time for my experiment to continue. Everything could crash quickly, and the longer this goes with good results, the (possibly) safer it might be for the next guy! I’m going to try to give regular informative updates. It is really too soon to know if this is the way to recover, but I’m feeling really positive about everything so far. I would check you testosterone and dht level now.
Here’s the thing. My wife is a homeopath. There is something called Avogadro’s number. It is the fixed numerical value of a substance that it takes to induce a biological response. Now normally “like cures like”. So something similar cures something similar. In this case we are going after isopathy. Same cures same. So technically, I’m wondering if we make an insanely diluted water dose ( Avagadro’s number is so insanely small) and it may do absolutely nothing,we tried, and it doesn’t harm us..... or, it may be enough to actually work as it does in homeopathy. It just feels right.
@hairsuit the research chem places have fin suspended in alcohol if you want to test a drop instead of diluting a pill. I’d wait for jack to take this plunge tho.
I’ve been saying this idea would up regulate the androgen receptors, but we don’t know if jack’s results are going to stick. It’s a great experiment and promising results.
Looking back at the pattern of pfs sufferers I’ve spoken to, an overwhelmingly common pattern is on fin, off fin , recover fine, on fin again, off fin & then suffer the crash. This is , I believe AR related, and going on a third time would up regulate again.
Only time will tell...
I’ve been saying this idea would up regulate the androgen receptors, but we don’t know if jack’s results are going to stick. It’s a great experiment and promising results.
Looking back at the pattern of pfs sufferers I’ve spoken to, an overwhelmingly common pattern is on fin, off fin , recover fine, on fin again, off fin & then suffer the crash. This is , I believe AR related, and going on a third time would up regulate again.
Only time will tell...
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he is on finasteride right now. every 3 days on fin , that is just being on fin.
killing DHT levels will take off block from ARs which are in testosterone places.
The idea of low dose FIN like PFSTINKS did was to downregulate AR , not upregulate AR density, IT IS PROVEN that AR density is UPREGULATED in PFS.
And it has nothing to do AR protein)) it has to do with signaling.
I posted a STUDY especially for you JOE. which checked that all out, and they saw that Androgen receptor was HIGHLY overexpressed in PFS
but this overexpression was probably DUE to not working SIGNALING. it is beyond androgen receptor.
This is why I suggested that we have 3 obvious possibilities
1) the overexpression of the AR is causing the problem ( may be, we should not disregard it) but according to that study , the more overexpressed the AR was the less symptoms people had , so this variant is probably off. Since AR overexpression and super density is because of not WORKING SIGNAL beyond the AR protein.
But we still need to consider this route , since some people felt better on anavar which blocks androgen receptor. it makes your DHT weaker by 80%
It fills the adrogen receptor with itself and blocks DHT from binding it.
2) or the signaling of the AR is not working.( like zinc finger, , or methylation of the histone which is needed to signal
In case 2, we know that methylation is impossible in PFS> since everysingle person has zero folates in PFS , so here is your signaling problem. also they had low SaME.
overwhelming pattern from the thread which I created was go on FIN and crash ON FIN without even getting off. and when getting off nothing changed, still stayed in CRASH. This basically proved that crash from finasteride is not from any androgen receptor in 50% people. They crashed on fin. and stayed crashed the same off fin.
at least 50% of cases were like that.
another 50 cases were going off fin, the first time, and crashed and then there is a group who did as you say who went on fin first time, did not crash and crash on the second time.
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Yea still taking it, 200mg.
Update:
Again I’m just tracking symptoms/ feelings/ effects and dosing with frequency with this regimen.
I was feeling very positive last week about this protocol until Thursday. I had decided taking 1/4 tab at a shorter frequency would be helpful. Last Monday l took it and felt great mentally emotionally, strength and by Tuesday libido was rising. I took it again Thursday and felt worse. Felt more anxiety and that continued into Friday. I in fact Friday ( yesterday ) afternoon I started having doubts. I was thinking maybe this isn’t going to work. There have been so many things that make u feel better but then fade. I also had a bad work out yesterday morning. Not feeling strong. But this morning I awoke with more libido and extra strong MW. It’s not uncommon for me to get MW but this was significantly more dramatic. Mentally I feel good today and just finished a great work out. So for me after dosing it takes 1-2 days to feel better at this point( libido) and sometimes mentally I feel better on the day I take it. I think I will now change frequency to every 4 days. Every 7 days is too long and I crashed on that. Not really crashed but felt low and down.
Side note: I think over all I’m feeling more normal, what ever that means. When I was taking progesterone, I knew I was off, just happy to feel more calm and it helped libido.
Another side note: I don’t think/ can’t find any one that had followed a low dose intermittent protocol that Caused them to feel worse. The guys that retook fin that did poorly took it everyday. ( I think). I’d rather not know if someone has already failed doing this, if u know what I mean!
Again I’m just tracking symptoms/ feelings/ effects and dosing with frequency with this regimen.
I was feeling very positive last week about this protocol until Thursday. I had decided taking 1/4 tab at a shorter frequency would be helpful. Last Monday l took it and felt great mentally emotionally, strength and by Tuesday libido was rising. I took it again Thursday and felt worse. Felt more anxiety and that continued into Friday. I in fact Friday ( yesterday ) afternoon I started having doubts. I was thinking maybe this isn’t going to work. There have been so many things that make u feel better but then fade. I also had a bad work out yesterday morning. Not feeling strong. But this morning I awoke with more libido and extra strong MW. It’s not uncommon for me to get MW but this was significantly more dramatic. Mentally I feel good today and just finished a great work out. So for me after dosing it takes 1-2 days to feel better at this point( libido) and sometimes mentally I feel better on the day I take it. I think I will now change frequency to every 4 days. Every 7 days is too long and I crashed on that. Not really crashed but felt low and down.
Side note: I think over all I’m feeling more normal, what ever that means. When I was taking progesterone, I knew I was off, just happy to feel more calm and it helped libido.
Another side note: I don’t think/ can’t find any one that had followed a low dose intermittent protocol that Caused them to feel worse. The guys that retook fin that did poorly took it everyday. ( I think). I’d rather not know if someone has already failed doing this, if u know what I mean!
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Jack, dont go too close fin dosages. you just suppress yourself too much.
you are doing different thing from pfstinks and that other guys who did this.
they were going thru crashes, specifically for the body to get used to higher levels of gaba and DHT
but you just suppress gaba and dht
you are basically on fin , but the more proper dosage
I wonder if one can really calculate the and take exact dosages daily small enough to be in the sweet spot.
I guess that would be hard, that is why you have to go thru these periods where you feel bad and good.
Same as PFstinks did, when he took fin first day he would feel better, as fin was suppressing him , at first, and then worse as it suppressed,
and then better again in couple of days,
basically swinging around the sweet spot
Trump_1776
Well-Known Member
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Jeez!
You are right, every three days is too frequent. I can tell I’m still suppressed. Mentally I’m good but libido still lower. The time before when I dosed at 3 days seemed like I was even better than I had been in forever. Maybe accumulation of fin coupled with increase freq. I’ll wait 5-7 days or more. Sure would be great if we could appropriately calculate the correct dose and freq to be able to stay on fin w no sides or even boost in libido. I’ll stretch out frequency but not sure if I should be waiting to crash before taking again.
Update:
I am taking 1/4 tab of Propecia intermittently. Every 3 days I believe is too frequent. For me, I think longer than 7 days is too long. I plan to take every 7 days for the next interval. I have had very good results for several days at time, but I also have felt like I took too much my second dose at every 3 days. I repeated my labs last Wednesday and that was 6 days after a 1/4 tab. DHT is 57 compared to 83 (30-85) Testosterone 874 compared to 711 (260-916) Free Test 9.1 compared to 8.3 (7.2-24) Normal LH and FSH. I have been doing this protocol for almost a month. Except for a few days, over all I feel a little better and there have been several days I have felt almost normal. I have seen a lot of new hair growth in my scalp. I have lost weight and have more lean muscle. I am not recovered though.
I am taking 1/4 tab of Propecia intermittently. Every 3 days I believe is too frequent. For me, I think longer than 7 days is too long. I plan to take every 7 days for the next interval. I have had very good results for several days at time, but I also have felt like I took too much my second dose at every 3 days. I repeated my labs last Wednesday and that was 6 days after a 1/4 tab. DHT is 57 compared to 83 (30-85) Testosterone 874 compared to 711 (260-916) Free Test 9.1 compared to 8.3 (7.2-24) Normal LH and FSH. I have been doing this protocol for almost a month. Except for a few days, over all I feel a little better and there have been several days I have felt almost normal. I have seen a lot of new hair growth in my scalp. I have lost weight and have more lean muscle. I am not recovered though.
Yes, 1 mg and you are correct about blocking. I think the difference really is to dose intermittently enough not over suppress you system, maybe.
Yeah and half life I imagine is the important thing here. Once a week sounds about right. Good luck!