Ketogenic diet

[Canari]

http://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Ketogenic_diet_-_the_practical_details

Are we in keto when we fast?

I've been reading a bit about keto, and i might give it a shot again. Last time i did it though i didn't eat properly and ended up pretty bad.

My idea would be a diet with 30% protein 70% fat. Mainly eggs, fatty meats and some fish. Maybe bacon, but idk if that would be the best choice, lol. Would be interesting to see how i react to it this time.

My real question is how to digest all that fat!

 

[Nina]

No idea. A lot of people seem to be succesful on keto though

 

[TubZy]

I tried both keto and pure water fasting. I chose water fasting over it any day, I just feel better.

 

[JonnyCraig]

I tried both keto and pure water fasting. I chose water fasting over it any day, I just feel better.

Hey dude, question:

My diet right now...

90% Seafood, oysters, schrimp, mussels, etc.
I have this Pea Soup (w/ Lard), that I had a bunch of veggies to.. 4 eggs, etc.
I'll drink a lot of V8 and Mott's Garden cocktail too.

This is the core of my diet.

I'm not eating any starchy carbs at all.

I'm also lifting heavy 5 days a week or so.

Thoughts?

 

[TubZy]

I tried both keto and pure water fasting. I chose water fasting over it any day, I just feel better.

Hey dude, question:

My diet right now...

90% Seafood, oysters, schrimp, mussels, etc.
I have this Pea Soup (w/ Lard), that I had a bunch of veggies to.. 4 eggs, etc.
I'll drink a lot of V8 and Mott's Garden cocktail too.

This is the core of my diet.

I'm not eating any starchy carbs at all.

I'm also lifting heavy 5 days a week or so.

Thoughts?

That sounds strong dude, I don't really have any issues with that. How does your metabolism feel? I feel my metabolism picks up when I eat majority shellfish and soups from the boost in minerals

 

[Canari]

I tried both keto and pure water fasting. I chose water fasting over it any day, I just feel better.

lol I would alternate, because you cannot fast that long! The good thing is to find the right diet to refeed between fasts...!

 

[Canari]

Jonny, I do not hink this is keto!

90% Seafood, oysters, schrimp, mussels, etc.

That sounds strong dude, I don't really have any issues with that. How does your metabolism feel? I feel my metabolism picks up when I eat majority shellfish and soups from the boost in minerals

I see a difference between minerals and macro %.

90% proteins based food is gluconeogenesis.
For keto you have to eat more fats than this.

 

[Nina]

Any opinions on Bacon? It is basically the perfect keto food when u only look at the fat/protein ratio. Always thought pork was high in copper

 

[mattyb]

Keto is hands down the inferior option compared to just fasting.

I would say it should only be an option for people who cannot fast for one reason or another, or for people who need the physiological effects indefinitely.

 

[TubZy]

I tried both keto and pure water fasting. I chose water fasting over it any day, I just feel better.

lol I would alternate, because you cannot fast that long! The good thing is to find the right diet to refeed between fasts...!

You could however do alternate day water fast on a daily basis lol

 

[TubZy]

Jonny, I do not hink this is keto!

90% Seafood, oysters, schrimp, mussels, etc.

That sounds strong dude, I don't really have any issues with that. How does your metabolism feel? I feel my metabolism picks up when I eat majority shellfish and soups from the boost in minerals

I see a difference between minerals and macro %.

90% proteins based food is gluconeogenesis.
For keto you have to eat more fats than this.

Not sure if he was saying he was in keto or not ( I think V8 and garden cocktail has sugar in it right?)

 

[mattyb]

90% protein isn't even close to keto, all that protein is getting shunted into gluconeogenesis.

Real keto is under 10% protein.

 

[Ewelina]

I was on a very high fat and very low sugar (less than 50 gr. daily) diet for almost 10 years prior to unfortunate experimentation with high sugar aka Ray Peat diet and I felt relatively fine. I probably had higher percentage of protein daily but I was trying not to overeat meat. High sugar did a real number on me, though.

 

[Canari]

Jonny, I do not hink this is keto! 90% proteins based food is gluconeogenesis. For keto you have to eat more fats than this.

Not sure if he was saying he was in keto or not ( I think V8 and garden cocktail has sugar in it right?)

Sorry, due to the title of the topic, I thought he was posting his keto diet...

 

[Canari]

I was on a very high fat and very low sugar (less than 50 gr. daily) diet for almost 10 years prior to unfortunate experimentation with high sugar aka Ray Peat diet and I felt relatively fine. I probably had higher percentage of protein daily but I was trying not to overeat meat. High sugar did a real number on me, though.

Thanks and welcome! That would be great to post about a 10 years experiment! Why had you chosen this diet originally? I really believe help in forum comes from being able to share about context, so we can chose what suits us.

 

[Ewelina]

Thank you!

Back then I lived in Poland and there was this doctor who recommended so called “optimal diet” which was essentially a very high saturated fat and low carbohydrate diet. My main issue then was acne. However, at the same time I was on the pill (for almost 10 years as well, mostly Diane-35), so improvement in my acne could be related to it rather than the diet.

Nonetheless, gbolduev made it clear that Diane-35 is a progestin and now I finally see how my present health problems can be related to it. I thought that my main issue was estrogen dominance, but after all it can be due to dysregulated progesterone receptors (Progest-E makes things better but causes other problems at the same time) and cortisol. So even if I am a woman I can see a lot of useful information in a pfs thread. I was furious when they removed the thread from RPF as I was just reading it! I’m glad that this is the place to learn more about it!

 

[Canari]

There was this doctor who recommended so called “optimal diet” which was essentially a very high saturated fat and low carbohydrate diet. My main issue then was acne.

Thanks Ewelina! I have quoted you in the hormonal herbals in cdsnut corner, so that we keep talking only about keto diet here.

1) So, as you are not sure your acne got better only because of keto, have you noticed anything else? I am especially interested to know how you cold deal with the digestion of a lot of fat....

2) And second, how you handled the change to a RP diet, and how it affected you.

For 1) I was making a lot of mayo with olive oil, 1L / week... and with egg and avocado. My carb intake was 5 bananas per day, so still a lot, but I had extra energy that I could feel "coming from deep inside", ambers as opposed to a quick fire.
I was also using a lot of coconut oil, and some almonds, and some reasonable raw goat cheese, and meat.

For 2) I got extra energy at the beginning, but then I needed to accelerate my carb intake to maintain it, and crashed mainly from infection from sugar and dairy intake (I had lowered them just to get rid of sinusitis etc!). As I had had some hot flushes, I thought I solved them with sugar, but actually, they were related to the time of the year, as I was eating more fruits during winter, when we have a lot here! So they came back, and I took progest-e 2 years.

3) Change of diet and low carb = stop hot flushes nearly imidiately. i do not know up to what point I should go keto or not...

 

[Ewelina]

As I was on the pill almost all the time during my high fat diet it’s hard to say what caused what in terms of heath. However, taking into account that Diane-35 is extremely toxic and that I felt relatively fine during that time I can guess that the diet on it’s own wasn’t too bad. I never had problem with eating fat. Frankly I could eat butter on its own. No digestive issues whatsoever. I was eating over 2000 cal daily on average and never put on weight. I was mainly eating fatty meats, eggs at least 2 a day, cream, butter, cheese, some nuts. For carbs chocolate, some rice or whole grain crackers, occasional fruit. Acne did clear out but I think this was due to the pill. Nonetheless, with time I started having histamine issues and after 6 years migraine started. So overall I think the pill sorted me out not the diet. That’s why I turned to Ray Peat style of eating.

As for Ray Peat diet, another confounding factor was that I started taking progesterone almost at the same time. So when I was on a high fat diet I was on the pill, while when I was on “Ray Peat diet” I was on progesterone so my results are really unreliable. Nonetheless, higher carb seemed fine at first but my acne got much worse. Migraine didn’t improve a bit. Histamine issues got out of control. Then after about a year digestion started getting worse. Unfortunately I also introduced Buteyko breathing (or rather no breathing) which now I see it was another nail to my coffin. Since the beginning of this year I again changed my diet to much lower sugar and more fat. Also, I live in the UK and here is always cold and gloomy so fat tastes pretty good and makes me feel much warmer and I’m not very active so I don’t need that much sugar anyway.

In hindsight, it would have been better not to experiment with high sugar diet. I ended up with more problems than I started with. The plus is that now I know much more and maybe I can try to fix causes not only symptoms.

As for hot flashes, when I eat too many carbohydrates in the afternoon I can get hot flashes at night. I started suspecting too much CO2 at night and not enough oxygen. I think we need to test things and see what works and what not. Being open minded and not dogmatic is a key here.

 

[Canari]

Frankly I could eat butter on its own. No digestive issues whatsoever.

Then after about a year digestion started getting worse.

Since the beginning of this year I again changed my diet to much lower sugar and more fat.

Same with butter, as long as it comes out of the fridge and can bite in it! 250g will last 2 or 3 days...

Yes, digestion worse with sugars, but not at once.

I changed the same as you but more recently.

 

[Canari]

Frankly I could eat butter on its own. No digestive issues whatsoever.

As for hot flashes, when I eat too many carbohydrates in the afternoon I can get hot flashes at night.

I started suspecting too much CO2 at night and not enough oxygen. I think we need to test things and see what works and what not. Being open minded and not dogmatic is a key here.

I forgot to say I got problem from lowering olive oil in favor of coconut oil, which does not stimulate bile the same. My stools came back to normal color after coming back to olive oil in great quantities. This year they were mostly yellow, and they were today too, after a few days with no olive oil and a suden increase in sugar with chocolate and turrón, a pastry of only almond and sugar.

Only once last month I had a nearly hot flush in the evening, the first day I tried to up my fruit intake.... (when there are good ones for free in the garden, what do you do? :roll: )