MOLECULAR HYDROGEN

[Helen]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't think Helen is right. It would be hard to believe that the top Japanese scientists/Universities and all the research is wrong. There are many cases of long term usage and the results seem remarkable. Breathing hydrogen from the little bottle she has with ionized water, is also not a safe thing to do and she also mentioned that she breathed hydrogen from the old lourdes, not sure how she did that, as there is no option to do that and you are not supposed to, as it is not safe either. She also mentions that h2 miracle is a safe place to purchase the old lourdes, yes that is probably true, but it's not true for the new hydrofix. As I contacted the manufacturer and they made it very clear, that if they even have the machine (which they don't have them in stock and are only doing pre orders at this time). But the manufacturer said there would be no warranty, they are probably not certified by the manufacturer, and if anyone gets a unit from them there will be no service offered by the manufacturer.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not here to argue. I have known many people who use hydrogen water correctly and none have any such symptoms, even when they stop drinking it. However, I do think you are incorrect about many things, although you are very convincing. I'm not going to write long paragraphs explaining where you are wrong, I simply don't have the time. But do what you want and I wish you good health.

I did not breath hydrogen from the old Lourdes, I have hydrofix for that, and there is no ionized water in high rich machine just pure hydrogen. I have all 3 machines, old lourdes, new hydrofix and high rich machine.


Top scientists say that they dont know how the hydrogen works. this is what Tyler also says, but you assume you know how it works. I am trying to discuss my findings . and the idea of this forum are the long discussions . and exchanging of the ideas. And since you drank the hydrogen water for a long time, it would be good to discuss and get you involved in the discussion, instead of just promoting hydrofix in every single post.

Getting hydrogen with a magnesium rod in the tube is the safest way to get hydrogen. and it costs nothing. It is safer than hydrofix, it is safer than high rich and any machines. Since there is no chance of any leaching.

Denying people having side effects is just trying to be blind. We are sharing our experiences here and we need to learn from these experiences.
People have the same exact side effects from hydrofix or from high rich or from test tube method.

Protonated water has its benefits, and Volkov and Flanagan wrote about it millions of times , all the information that you read now in the studies is published in russia way before that by Volkov and now people like Tyler lebaron quote him and base those quotes on some japanese studies

Anyone who can listen to his interview can hear, we need more studies, we dont know how hydrogen works, since the actual gas should not work, and that it will leave the body in a very short time.

And I am telling you why it works, since it leaves free hydrogen there. And this free hydrogen stays there. And that is exactly what people are experiencing .

If you read the Volkov literature you would see that he is even using the same exact words. It is like they just copied stuff from him.

 

[mattyb]

@Helen

Interesting stuff. I really like the way you've framed this, and it is in line with some things I've been reading.

Most benefits of H2 that have been observed were mediated through B1-adrenergic activation of ghrelin. Ghrelin inhibitors seem to completely nullify any benefits of H2. This is in line with what you said about reducing potassium and raising adrenaline (adrenergic mechanism). This is very similar to what fasting does as well (lowering K+, raising H+, invokes adrenergic action, and activates ghrelin secretion, which then shifts mitochondria towards oxidation of fatty acids). Exercise has similar mechanisms, but varies in some distinct ways. I think you've tied all of this together very well yourself, and added something new regarding H2s effects on acid-base physiology.

One issue of contention (but that ultimately doesn't matter) I do think that it can permeate into the mitochondria, considering mitochondrial pores are as large as 20A and H2 radius is only about 1.2A. There is direct evidence that it permeates membranes, so I don't think that is up for debate. I do think it's mechanism of action is up for debate because, like you said, that hydrogen will interact with a ton of other substances before it has a chance to even reach the mitochondria in peripheral tissues (e.g. brain, circulatory system, etc.). So some may be able to reach the mitochondria and neutralize OH-, but the vast majority of it will get caught along the way. I could see total H2 saturation through massive doses of H2 as a therapy in severe acute injury (ie: stroke, trauma, etc.) where OH- production is also very high. Oversaturating the system so that some H2 reaches OH- and neutralizes it could be effective as an acute therapy for those people. But chronic consumption doesn't seem as smart.

Another proposed mechanism of H2 is upregulation of GLUT4 - so H2 water could be beneficial for people suffering from some degree of peripheral insulin resistance, helping with glucose metabolism. But I would argue that short high-intensity exercise is a much better way to tackle that issue, so H2 is likely unnecessary in that respect. But most people with peripheral insulin resistance have problems with beta-oxidation and NEFA clearance, so the H2 water could still benefit those people in other ways).

In terms of slow-oxidizers, we often discuss calcium retention but I think slow oxidizers have almost an inverse problem. I think they have very poor mitochondrial Ca2+ retention. Ca2+ release into serum happens when mitochondria swell and eventually die, this increases Ca2+ concentration in the blood, and the body reacts to this likely by increasing Ca2+ retention into bone by inhibiting PTH and inhibiting osteoclasts (osteoblasts are always working, and bone Ca2+ retention is largely controlled via regulation of osteoclasts and calcium efflux rather than influx). Healthy mitochondria have stable Ca2+ pools. This is why I think fast oxidizers are more susceptible to problems with bone, because with stable mitochondria and strong metabolism there is less efflux of Ca2+ into serum, so PTH is higher, and osteoclast signalling is stronger. Increasing acidity (H+) is what would slow down metabolism, destabilizing mitochondria, and increase Ca2+ release into the bloodstream from mitochondrial Ca2+ pool, which downregulates PTH and osteoclast function, maintaining bone structure. I think this is why fast oxidizers do so well on calcium, while vitamin D doesn't seem to have nearly as much of an effect (I think vitamin D really only helps because it increases intestinal absorption or calcium, but vitamin D will direct that calcium into intracellular stores, which doesn't really help their primary issue which is low serum calcium). I've been helping a fast oxidizer here who has been improving dramatically, and he has the biggest improvements with ultra high doses of calcium, while vitamin D doesn't seem to do much at all.

I think this is why H2 water is effective for people with rheumatoid arthritis, because people with RA are often young, have high glycolytic metabolism producing lots of CO2, and likely have a hard time keeping calcium in the joints and bones, which leads to degeneration of those tissues. With ultra-stable mitochondria and very little calcium efflux, they have to constantly draw it from the bones and joints if they don't get enough (consistently) from the intestines. This is in line with RA studies looking at Vitamin D and calcium supplementation, with Vitamin D alone doing nothing for RA, while Vitamin D + Calcium seemed to decrease disease severity. This may make Vitamin K2 a good candidate for people with RA, since it increases Ca2+ release from mitochondria by inducing mitochondrial apoptosis (at least in certain human cell lines) - no surprise, since K2 has had good outcomes in RA trials. Ultimately, I think these fast oxidizers would just do best on high calcium and moderate K2, which would retain their healthy mitochondrial function while stabilizing joint/bone structure. H2 water just seems like a round-about way to increase serum calcium, lower PTH, and inhibit osteoclasts for these people.

Enough rambling. Again, great work @Helen. Analysis like that is why I really like coming to this forum.

 

[Hydro]

I did not breath hydrogen from the old Lourdes, I have hydrofix for that, and there is no ionized water in high rich machine just pure hydrogen. I have all 3 machines, old lourdes, new hydrofix and high rich machine.


Top scientists say that they dont know how the hydrogen works. this is what Tyler also says, but you assume you know how it works. I am trying to discuss my findings . and the idea of this forum are the long discussions . and exchanging of the ideas. And since you drank the hydrogen water for a long time, it would be good to discuss and get you involved in the discussion, instead of just promoting hydrofix in every single post.

Getting hydrogen with a magnesium rod in the tube is the safest way to get hydrogen. and it costs nothing. It is safer than hydrofix, it is safer than high rich and any machines. Since there is no chance of any leaching.

Denying people having side effects is just trying to be blind. We are sharing our experiences here and we need to learn from these experiences.
People have the same exact side effects from hydrofix or from high rich or from test tube method.

Protonated water has its benefits, and Volkov and Flanagan wrote about it millions of times , all the information that you read now in the studies is published in russia way before that by Volkov and now people like Tyler lebaron quote him and base those quotes on some japanese studies

Anyone who can listen to his interview can hear, we need more studies, we dont know how hydrogen works, since the actual gas should not work, and that it will leave the body in a very short time.

And I am telling you why it works, since it leaves free hydrogen there. And this free hydrogen stays there. And that is exactly what people are experiencing .

If you read the Volkov literature you would see that he is even using the same exact words. It is like they just copied stuff from him.

@Helen, Since you claim that you have tested and use a hydrofix, what is the serial number on your hydrofix? And have you by any chance made any youtube videos? If so, do you have a link? And if you really must know, I do have hair and hydrogen has shown in no research to grow hair nor make you loose your hair. It's such a pointless topic, that's the reason I never touch on it. And the grey hair theory is also incorrect IMO, as people that I personally know who have been drinking hydrogen water (my father included, who has a full head of grey hair) has now started getting his color back substantially. And many people in Japan have reported getting a lot of their pigment back after drinking hydrogen water for years. I really think you should be careful what you say and advise people. I have always been cautious about giving advice. However, when I was very sick, I made a promise to myself. If I were to ever figure out how to improve my condition, that I would share it with others. I have learned a lot about many different subjects (not just hydrogen), but hydrogen is the most simple and powerful thing that you can apply to improving your health IMO. I don't think most people would want to do what I do to improve health. But I will say, I had a very good and clean diet, clean water, etc. etc. and I remained sick. It wasn't until hydrogen that I and others in my family also saw significant improvement in their health. And to answer the simple question about hydrogen, I used to talk about the old lourdes because it was the best at the time. I no longer talk about that unit, because it's not the best. I only want what is safe and the best, that is the reason I talk about the hydrofix. All the other products you are mentioning are not completely safe, that is the reason you cannot give that water to babies, pregnant women, etc. The simple fact is, you don't want electrolyzed water or a chemical reaction to make your hydrogen, and water that manipulates Ph.

 

[mattyb]

Oh, one last thing - this is why I think slow-oxidizers can do really well on low-calcium diets but with very high vitamin D supplementation. Vitamin D supplementation in deficient people increases mitochondrial function significantly.

Improving the Vitamin D Status of Vitamin D Deficient Adults Is Associated With Improved Mitochondrial Oxidative Function in Skeletal Muscle | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic

But I think you need to keep calcium intake quite low, otherwise other tissues become super-saturated with calcium, which isn't good. Slow-oxidizers are ideal candidates for pre-industrial and even some pre-agricultural diets/lifestyles. Low calcium, lots of sun exposure (vitamin D), lots of exercise, low calorie intakes but with enough protein, and super high amounts of potassium, manganese, molybdenum, and folate (e.g. leafy greens, beans, things that come from the ground).

 

[mattyb]

@Helen, Since you claim that you have and use a hydrofix, what is the serial number on your hydrofix? And have you by any chance made any youtube videos? If so, do you have a link? And if you really must know, I do have hair and hydrogen has shown in no research to grow hair nor make you loose your hair. It's such a pointless topic, that's the reason I never touch on it. And the grey hair theory is also incorrect IMO, as people that I personally know who have been drinking hydrogen water (my father included, who has a full head of grey hair) has now started getting his color back substantially. And many people in Japan have reported getting a lot of their pigment back after drinking hydrogen water for years. I really think you should be careful what you say and advise people. I have always been cautious about giving advice. However, when I was very sick, I made a promise to myself. If I were to ever figure out how to improve my condition, that I would share it with others. I have learned a lot about many different subjects (not just hydrogen), but hydrogen is the most simple and powerful thing that you can apply to improving your health IMO. I don't think most people would want to do what I do to improve health. But I will say, I had a very good and clean diet, clean water, etc. etc. and I remained sick. It wasn't until hydrogen that I and others in my family also saw significant improvement in their health. And to answer the simple question about hydrogen, I used to talk about the old lourdes because it was the best at the time. I no longer talk about that unit, because it's not the best. I only want what is safe and the best, that is the reason I talk about the hydrofix. All the other products you are mentioning are not completely safe, that is the reason you cannot give that water to babies, pregnant women, etc. The simple fact is, you don't want electrolyzed water or a chemical reaction to make your hydrogen.

I think you just need to take a step back and re-evaluate some things he is saying.

He's not saying H2 water is bad. He's just saying that it might be good for some people, but not that great for some other people. He's also saying that there may be some alternatives to H2 water, which is very likely. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of that, or that controversial. Your experiences of it being beneficial for some people is not in disagreement with that he's saying. If you sit in this bubble and pretend that it is good for everyone in every circumstances, that's just hogwash. Nothing in life has that guarantee.

What he's saying is not out to lunch, or in disagreement to what many researchers are saying. This paper is a good example:
Does H2 Alter Mitochondrial Bioenergetics via GHS-R1α Activation?

A better approach is to critically evaluate what Helen is saying, and if you don't find any clear errors, think about how some of the things Helen talks about could explain how H2 water helped those people you mentioned.

 

[Helen]

@Helen, Since you claim that you have and use a hydrofix, what is the serial number on your hydrofix? And have you by any chance made any youtube videos? If so, do you have a link? And if you really must know, I do have hair and hydrogen has shown in no research to grow hair nor make you loose your hair. It's such a pointless topic, that's the reason I never touch on it. And the grey hair theory is also incorrect IMO, as people that I personally know who have been drinking hydrogen water (my father included, who has a full head of grey hair) has now started getting his color back substantially. And many people in Japan have reported getting a lot of their pigment back after drinking hydrogen water for years. I really think you should be careful what you say and advise people. I have always been cautious about giving advice. However, when I was very sick, I made a promise to myself. If I were to ever figure out how to improve my condition, that I would share it with others. I have learned a lot about many different subjects (not just hydrogen), but hydrogen is the most simple and powerful thing that you can apply to improving your health IMO. I don't think most people would want to do what I do to improve health. But I will say, I had a very good and clean diet, clean water, etc. etc. and I remained sick. It wasn't until hydrogen that I and others in my family also saw significant improvement in their health. And to answer the simple question about hydrogen, I used to talk about the old lourdes because it was the best at the time. I no longer talk about that unit, because it's not the best. I only want what is safe and the best, that is the reason I talk about the hydrofix. All the other products you are mentioning are not completely safe, that is the reason you cannot give that water to babies, pregnant women, etc. The simple fact is, you don't want electrolyzed water or a chemical reaction to make your hydrogen.

I am not advising anything to people, I share my experience, same as other people share their experiences. We are talking specifics here biochemistry not some broad words and anectodes.

Jay , were are discussing how hydrogen works, not that it helped someone or not. I explained why and how hydrogen can help. You need to re read my posts again. And read Volkov.

We have different oxidations here and for some people hydrogen can reduce hairloss and lower the quantity of grey hair. but for the others it will be the opposite. This is what I experienced and I shared my experience with you. No idea why you take it as a theory, and also you completely deny the symptoms that people are sharing here.

I wrote that hydrogen water will be great for fast oxidizers many times. And those people will improve all their markers probably without the side effects their hair will get better, and their grey hair will diminish . but they will get the same on protonated water also. Since fast oxidziers are running low on copper and if you lower their potassium in the cell with hydrogen water or just protonated water, they will have less grey hair and more energy. If your father is this way, then may be you are the same body chemistry and you do good on carbs and plant based diet, since it lowers your cysteine and your oxidation rate slow down, and if you add protons to it, you fix your fat oxidation better and you get rid of tumors, your copper deficiency gets better and you have more strength.


I don't make videos on youtube, why would I? I don't promote stuff.

You dont want chemical reaction of magnesium with malic acid, that produces hydrogen with zero residue and none of the magnesium or malic acid leaches from the little tube inside of the bottle. but you want the the electricity go between two platinum or titanium plates that the water actually touches? Are you kidding me?
Do you even understand the method we are using with the test tube). there is nothing but pure hydrogen coming out of there. and it costs nothing.

 

[Slayo]

Oh, one last thing - this is why I think slow-oxidizers can do really well on low-calcium diets but with very high vitamin D supplementation. Vitamin D supplementation in deficient people increases mitochondrial function significantly.

Improving the Vitamin D Status of Vitamin D Deficient Adults Is Associated With Improved Mitochondrial Oxidative Function in Skeletal Muscle | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic

But I think you need to keep calcium intake quite low, otherwise other tissues become super-saturated with calcium, which isn't good. Slow-oxidizers are ideal candidates for pre-industrial and even some pre-agricultural diets/lifestyles. Low calcium, lots of sun exposure (vitamin D), lots of exercise, low calorie intakes but with enough protein, and super high amounts of potassium, manganese, molybdenum, and folate (e.g. leafy greens, beans, things that come from the ground).

Vitamin d lowers cortisol and aldosterone through its action on cyp21A2, not good in my opinion for slow oxidisers

 

[hairsuit]

I’m so confused by all this. I was under the assumption, based on prior posts, that H2 alone possibly had the potential to accomplish al the tasks of the detox protocol. Now some should use some shouldn’t? Can increase hair loss, etc? I’ll say this, it has shredded me up. Literally cut me up big time in regards to body fat. Anyone else experience this?

 

[Helen]

I’m so confused by all this. I was under the assumption, based on prior posts, that H2 alone possibly had the potential to accomplish al the tasks of the detox protocol. Now some should use some shouldn’t? Can increase hair loss, etc? I’ll say this, it has shredded me up. Literally cut me up big time in regards to body fat. Anyone else experience this?

Say hello to KETO))

I think H2 or protonated water does have the ability to detox, since it mimics fasting. And you know I am pro fasting. but I am not pro fasting for life))

This is why I said even for the slow oxidizers it can be used as a detox water. Especially it would detox PUFA very fast. Ray Peat should love it )) It will burn the hell out of PUFA)) , They say in 30 days, all pufa stores are burnt during fasting, but on acidic water, same will happen while eating LOL


I am not against hydrogen water. at all. We are experimenting with the water, fast or slow oxidizers, no one knows how it will work long term. just

 

[Ben123]

@Helen saying that @Yura s test tube method is best way to get hydrogen makes me and my bank account happy

Acidid water burns PUFA? Can this be achieved with betaine HCL?

 

[Shadow]

Oh, one last thing - this is why I think slow-oxidizers can do really well on low-calcium diets but with very high vitamin D supplementation. Vitamin D supplementation in deficient people increases mitochondrial function significantly.

Improving the Vitamin D Status of Vitamin D Deficient Adults Is Associated With Improved Mitochondrial Oxidative Function in Skeletal Muscle | The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism | Oxford Academic

But I think you need to keep calcium intake quite low, otherwise other tissues become super-saturated with calcium, which isn't good. Slow-oxidizers are ideal candidates for pre-industrial and even some pre-agricultural diets/lifestyles. Low calcium, lots of sun exposure (vitamin D), lots of exercise, low calorie intakes but with enough protein, and super high amounts of potassium, manganese, molybdenum, and folate (e.g. leafy greens, beans, things that come from the ground).

Matty, Im super Vitamin D deficient, it is ok to supplement D3 only?

 

[Hydro]

I think you just need to take a step back and re-evaluate some things he is saying.

He's not saying H2 water is bad. He's just saying that it might be good for some people, but not that great for some other people. He's also saying that there may be some alternatives to H2 water, which is very likely. There's nothing inherently wrong with any of that, or that controversial. Your experiences of it being beneficial for some people is not in disagreement with that he's saying. If you sit in this bubble and pretend that it is good for everyone in every circumstances, that's just hogwash. Nothing in life has that guarantee.

What he's saying is not out to lunch, or in disagreement to what many researchers are saying. This paper is a good example:
Does H2 Alter Mitochondrial Bioenergetics via GHS-R1α Activation?

A better approach is to critically evaluate what Helen is saying, and if you don't find any clear errors, think about how some of the things Helen talks about could explain how H2 water helped those people you mentioned.

Simple fact: your body makes hydrogen, nobody is allergic to it and it’s super safe

I am not advising anything to people, I share my experience, same as other people share their experiences. We are talking specifics here biochemistry not some broad words and anectodes.

Jay , were are discussing how hydrogen works, not that it helped someone or not. I explained why and how hydrogen can help. You need to re read my posts again. And read Volkov.

We have different oxidations here and for some people hydrogen can reduce hairloss and lower the quantity of grey hair. but for the others it will be the opposite. This is what I experienced and I shared my experience with you. No idea why you take it as a theory, and also you completely deny the symptoms that people are sharing here.

I wrote that hydrogen water will be great for fast oxidizers many times. And those people will improve all their markers probably without the side effects their hair will get better, and their grey hair will diminish . but they will get the same on protonated water also. Since fast oxidziers are running low on copper and if you lower their potassium in the cell with hydrogen water or just protonated water, they will have less grey hair and more energy. If your father is this way, then may be you are the same body chemistry and you do good on carbs and plant based diet, since it lowers your cysteine and your oxidation rate slow down, and if you add protons to it, you fix your fat oxidation better and you get rid of tumors, your copper deficiency gets better and you have more strength.


I don't make videos on youtube, why would I? I don't promote stuff.

You dont want chemical reaction of magnesium with malic acid, that produces hydrogen with zero residue and none of the magnesium or malic acid leaches from the little tube inside of the bottle. but you want the the electricity go between two platinum or titanium plates that the water actually touches? Are you kidding me?
Do you even understand the method we are using with the test tube). there is nothing but pure hydrogen coming out of there. and it costs nothing.

Helen, you still didn't answer the question. If you are truly testing the hyrdrofix, as you stated before, what is the serial number of your machine?

 

[hairsuit]

So @Helen , If I got no libido results from Malic Acid water, does that mean that I should be fine on H2? Or do the two have nothing to do with one another?

 

[Yura]

Simple fact: your body makes hydrogen, nobody is allergic to it and it’s super safe

That doesn't mean anything.. Anyway you have your own true like vegans or flat earthers have.. So it's pointless to arguing with you on this topic..

 

[opiath]

Yes, the molecular hydrogen leaves acidic residue after it reacts with the hydroxyl radicals.
This is something we knew all along. It donates it's electron to neutralize the radicals.
Why is this a bad thing all out of sudden?
It does the job we take it for right?
And yes it makes us more acidic but the kidneys will filter out those hydrogen protons eventually.
The scavenging of the hydroxyls outweighs the temporary shift towards metabolic acidosis.
As long as it is not overdosed and potassium levels are good it should be more benefit than harm.
And when you reach a state where your antioxidation is perfect and all harmful metals are chelated out it will no longer lower PH because there would be less and less radicals to react with.
The hydrogen will not turn into protons if there are no radicals.

 

[bruschi11]

@Hydro you just don't get it man. We are chronically ill people experimenting with this stuff. @Yura and I are two people that had great effects from hydrogen and I've also have bad effects with hydrogen as well.

There is no good or bad in health. Its all objective. Some things help some, some help others. There is situational improvements based on occurrences in the body. In my eyes, hydrogen is helping me in some areas but also leaving me dependent and I'm having some other symptoms.

@Hydro if your response to me is "well you shouldn't be getting withdrawal symptoms because others don't" then you should probably be banned by this forum. Thus far you've brought absolutely nothing to the table other than advertising the hydrofix and saying that hydrogen is good. All your words have said to us is "hydrogen is good."

If you can't objectively discuss then you really have no reason to be here.

 

[Nina]

some people claim that on keto state you can live very long life. And stay young.

What macros do you consider keto? Some say 30% protein and rest fat but thats not true keto?

 

[TubZy]

@Hydro you just don't get it man. We are chronically ill people or not experimenting with this stuff. @Yura and I are two people that had great effects from hydrogen and I've also have bad effects with hydrogen as well.

There is no good or bad in health. Its all objective. Some things help some, some help others. There is situational improvements based on occurrences in the body. In my eyes, hydrogen is helping me in some areas but also leaving me dependent and I'm having some other symptoms.

@Hydro if your response to me is "well you shouldn't be getting withdrawal symptoms because others don't" then you should probably be banned by this forum. Thus far you've brought absolutely nothing to the table other than advertising the hydrofix and saying that hydrogen is good. All your words have said to us is "hydrogen is good."

If you can't objectively discuss then you really have no reason to be here.

Easy...bruschi lol....he is not a bad dude you prob just misunderstood him, I dont think he is referring in it that tone. He is adjusting to a different type of crowd here then he is used to. In all fairness, his physical looks were mentioned here so I do think he has some what of a right to be a bit defensive.

 

[Helen]

Yes, the molecular hydrogen leaves acidic residue after it reacts with the hydroxyl radicals.
This is something we knew all along. It donates it's electron to neutralize the radicals.
Why is this a bad thing all out of sudden?
It does the job we take it for right?
And yes it makes us more acidic but the kidneys will filter out those hydrogen protons eventually.
The scavenging of the hydroxyls outweighs the temporary shift towards metabolic acidosis.
As long as it is not overdosed and potassium levels are good it should be more benefit than harm.
And when you reach a state where your antioxidation is perfect and all harmful metals are chelated out it will no longer lower PH because there would be less and less radicals to react with.
The hydrogen will not turn into protons if there are no radicals.

No, they are saying it is h2 plus 2 oh= 2 waters. No hydrogen residue.

If this were the case with no H residue, then taking hydrogen at all times thru the day will be ideal. And it would never cause extra acidity/ but this is not what we are experiencing.

This is exactly what I am saying. that it needs to be buffered, for low potassium people.

Radicals are made every second. Just imagine that the body makes those like crazy. drinking one glass of hydrogen water, even if it gets anywhere beyond the stomach, will turn into protons right there, and in one second there will be another batch of free radicals made, so you kill 1 second of free radicals, to create 3 hours of H residue. This is what I am saying that all this does lowers potassium. And this lower potassium lowers sugar metabolism and this is how hydrogen gas effect lasts. Since otherwise you will not be able to explain lower lactate levels .

 

[bruschi11]

lol I don't do well when people don't believe symptoms @Hydro @TubZy .

I totally believe hydro is good in instances including myself. But essentially disregarding the fact that people are having withdrawals like @Helen and I and not even attempting to discuss that fact left me a bit steamed.

Sorry if I came off that way as re-reading what I wrote Icome off as a dick. But the disregarding withdrawal thing was the reason that set that steam.