MOLECULAR HYDROGEN

[Helen]

@mattyb @TubZy @bruschi11 @Admiral @Hydro

Hydro , I understand your excitement about the hydrogen but lets not go overboard with it. I have been testing the hydrogen water , and now gas for quite sometime. I know you read the studies and go by them. But at this point they ( Tyler Lebaron and others dont know how hydrogen works. and to tell you the truth the expanations of how it works are wrong according to my tests.

Let me explain my points.

First of all, this did not come from Japan and japanese have nothing to do with this. This whole hydrogen thing came from a Russian guy Volkov who in 1992 proposed this theory.
h-longevity. The discovery of a russian scientist can change the course of mankind's history … Hydrogen against aging, illnesses and death!
The Elixir of Life Part 1 - Dr. Vladimir Volkov | Hemoglobin | Oxygen
Untitled

And it is not about Japanese and Tyler Lebaron , it is about Patrick Flanagan vs Volkov.

Now let me explain the studies how the hydrogen really works, and the results of my tests.

Lets start with the water.

When you drink hydrogen water it does not reach mito at all. It is not a direct antioxidant at all, and there is no reason to compare it to vitamin C or CQ10 . IT does none of that.

First of all , this equation that H2 + 2OH= 2 H2O Is false. I have no idea where they got if from . The real equation is h2+ OH= h20 + H

As you see when hydrogen gas reacts with free radicals it creates water and free hydrogen.

This is why if you drink hydrogen water, already in your stomach most of that H2 gas will turn simply into water and H . And it is basically like drinking acidic water like drinking protonated water.

This increases the artery PH and decreases vein PH.

Now lets go onto the studies.

1) Hydrogen water increases levels of glutathione, SOD and catalase. Any acid will do that. Aspirin does exactly the same. Why?
Since any acid will cause potassium to go down in the cell. This lowers oxidation of sugars . You create much much less superoxide, and thus your enzymes like gluthatione peroxidase , glutathione transferase dont react with the peroxide or super oxide and the numbers of the enzymes grows. This happens simply because your tanked your sugar metabolism. I checked this in and out, with all the PHs potassium levels, and metabolism markers.

2) Hydrogen water reduces lactate after exercise. Hydrogen water leaves the H as acidic residue, this H makes the potassium go down in the cell. This lowers sugar oxidation, and thus lowers the need for lactate. Hydrogen water by lowering potassium in the cell, makes your body works on fats, just like keto diet, and fasting. It causes huge adrenaline demand.

3) Hydrogen water raises testosterone. Same as aspirin , we know that aspirin increases testosterone. Since aspirin lowers potassium in the cell and this causes progesterone and 3 beta HSD to lift up . 3 beta HSD what makes your testosterone,, SO at first testosterone rises. but in 2-3 weeks NADPH falls, since the body will need to conserve potassium in the cell and testosterone will fall and stay down, just like on aspirin.


I have no idea why with all the biochemistry degrees Tyler Lebaron does not get this and they still describe the effects of Hydrogen water wrong and always are surprised how the hydrogen acts, if it is supposed to be out of your system in a heart beat. It is because hydrogen reacting with stuff leaves Hydrogen residue. This is how it works, and it was described by Volkov in 1992 and basically repeated word for word with all the new people basically selling acidic water for much more money.

Bottom line with hydrogen water. NO it is not good for everyone. It is good for people who want to increase their fat oxidation. IT does absolutely nothing as an antioxidant in the mito, since IT never gets there. It turns into acidic water right in your stomach and this lowers your potassium which causes less sugar metabolism thus less creation of free radicals and sugar by products.

this is basically like keto diet.

This is why if you quit the hydrogen you will be even worse than before, you need to be on it forever and ever to feel its effects, It will be exactly like being an alcoholic working on fats.

Hydrogen water is good for the fast oxidizers, ( the cancer type people) who have impaired fat metabolism and basically have low phenylalanine metatabolism. Hydrogen water by increasing H , causes Phenylalalnine metabolism to go full speed, and this lowers its toxic metabolites and clears cancer. Same as Aspirin will do it.


Hydrogen water metabolims is fats first, sugar second and then protein. This is not ideal metabolism


Now Volkov tells people that the best antioxidant is carbonic acid. And he is right. Only antioxidation coming from carbonic acid will make the body work sugars first, fats second, and protein third. This happens when you make tons of CO2 in your cell, via sugar oxidation, and this CO2 then provides antioxidation by turning into carbonic acid and donating hydrogen ion for NADPH .

Slow oxidizers dont have any oxidation in the cell, and thus they are not using their NADPH . and their hydrogen is not used at all and they have too much of it.


Thus if slow oxidizers like Bruschi admiral, Barbaar and other drink hydrogen water, they feel adrenaline right away, shocks and like they are going to die, and also lowering libido, since dopamine turns in to adrenaline. This does not pass, and lower grade adrenaline response keeps going. this is why those people cant sleep.

Now for ghrelin, half of the people on hydrogen water are not hungry at all and their appetite falls dramatically, since those people start living off of fats.


Bottom line Hydrogen water has nothing to do with mito and antioxidation in mito. It is the biggest scam of the last 5 years and it is the most expensive water PH 6 that I saw.

If you look at Hydrogen water drinking Tyler Lebaron, NIck Delgato they all look like beef turkey like keto people

YOu think this looks healthy? No it looks like very low CO2 levels in the cell.

Look corse hair , NIck the guy on the right drank the water for 1.5 years, say bye bye to that hairline, and also looks like beef turkey

Look at Tyler and the Japanese speaker, look at their skin tone, all even and dark,just like on Keto diet.

Hydrogen man Jay ( Hydro), looks the best out of them IMO. Since Jay, buffers his hydrogen intake with potassium bicarbonate with plant based diet.

Since he obviously had a problem with his folate metabolism and just went vegan and tries to lower methionine. Basically all the effects he gets are not from hydrogen , but from his new diet, since he needed that diet. Is it a wrong diet. Yes it is. Is it good for him at fist yes. it is.

Is this hydrogen acidic water Pro Hair. NO it is not, Not even close. Hydrogen makes you work on fats. It is not pro hair, same as ketogenic diet is not pro hair . This is why Jay is avoiding this question ))


I have been drinking hydrogen water for quite some time, if I dont buffer it , I get grey hairs in my beard . And how the hell is that anti oxidation LOL

Only fast oxidizers will have an effect for their hair from hydrogen water since hydrogen will hydrate them. slow oxidizers will get dehydrated on hydrogen

It is very simple to see if hydrogen water leaves hydrogen residue, if a person starts talking faster, you know you are going acidic.


Now lets get to hydrogen inhalation. As hydrogen water is pure rip off and just an acidic substance just like asprin which never gets to mito only indirectly by modulating potassium levels. Now we wonder what hydrogen inhalation will do.

First off all if hydrogen inhalation gets to mito at all, that would be very good, and I would consider it to work. I am still testing hydrogen inhalation and will post my verdict on it in a week or so.

If hydrogen inhalation gets to mito at all which my russian biochemists friends laugh at me and saying that it cant, but if it can , then it could be very good, but needs to be buffered.


You see hydrogen water never gets into the mito . But gas may be can, then the gas will act as an antioxidant in mito but it will react to OH and create H , which will still do the same as hydrogen water does, eventually put you into the fat metabolism scenario. So it needs to be buffered.

As you can see, hydrogen is not understood correctly and not studied correctly and basically promoted wrongly now. And @Hydro at this forum we try to get to the truth, not just read some studies and the interpretations of the ones who are interested .


Now lets get to the machines. I have Lourdes , old model, new model and High Rich hydrogen machine. I tested and drank the water and did the inhalations from all those machines. I found that lourdes has more residue than High rich machine. Plus lourdes machine is very needy and akward.

HIgh Rich machine cost 200 dollars and to me it beats Lourdes with functionality and the actual water tastes nicer to me.

I bought Lourdes and Products - Page 2 of 2 - H2 Miracle Water And no this is not fake site, and actually hydrofix here is 200 dollars cheaper.

I bought the older machine here also and contacted the Koreans directly and my machine was covered and the Koreans fixed if when I broke the machine by doing crazy stuff it))

Bottom line I think Hydrofix and the older models are very very overpriced. and I personally prefer high rich hydrogen machine. I took it to the beach, I put a new dupont membrane into it which is much better than on hydrofix, you can buy it for like for like 30 bux. Also you could charge it in your car, and put the unit in your pocket. Also you can just go the beach with the unit buy a bottle of orange juice screw it on and have buffered hydrogen drink right on the beach.


Nothing leaching from that machine. And actually I dont know why but Lourdes water tastes funnier.

Also why buy an expensive machine now, if in 2 years they will get to how hydrogen really works and they will have much much better machines. and I bet those machines will be with the carbonic acid)) which will be also a rip off, since you can just drink malic acid.

, I am doing only inhalation. and High rich machine does the same inhalation where you dont even get any residue, you just get gas in.


Best antioxidation is done by carbonic acid, Not hydrogen. Carbonic acid is made only when thyroid is working. So drinking malic acid will blow out hydrogen water out of water on any given day. try it , drink malic for a week, and drink hydrogen. On malic you will feel 10 times better. and you will actually have the libido instead of dying libido on hydrogen.


So Jay understand that you are trying to help and stuff, but you and we know little about hydrogen, and it is crazy to talk about it with the authority where most of the authorities dont even understand it yet.

To me if hydrogen will be talked about the way they talk about I will claim that hydrogen will be the biggest scam of the near future.


I will be testing inhalations next week in the lab. I doubt it can ever compare to malic acid thou.



Bottom line, there is absolute no reason to buy expensive machines. If you want to try hydrogen you can try hydrogen with the magnesium rod method where put magnesium in the tube. This way there is absolutely zero leach of magnesium or citric or malic acid in the water. And you get hydrogen of 3-4 PPM much higher than the machines. This method is described in this thread . and as safety is concerned it is much safer than drinking some water from the titanium plates.( as I said Lourdes water tastes funny) And this method is the absolute safest method and cheapest method to try hydrogen. No comparison to Lourdes and no comparison to machines. Zero leach in this method.


To me the ideal value of molecular hydrogen in the water is 0.3 PPM. just like in natural water, This way you dont get much acidic residue and you basically provide a little antioxidation in your stomach when you drink it. and provide hydrogen ions along with chloride since hydrogen alone will cause chloride deficiency



THE CONCLUSION.

So the bottom line verdict, drinking hydrogen water will be the same as drinking protonated water. It does lower your sugar oxidation and it does lower cortisol and you start working on fats just like keto diet. This gives some people energy since their sugar metabolism was impaired. this clears ammonia from high cortisol, but it has its problems.

This might chelate more stuff over time since more glutathione is available to bind things. IT is most ideal for fast oxidizers since fast oxidizers spend NADPH which is niacin, hydrogen , and phosphorus.


I do see benefits for some people from it. but it does not have anything to do with the selective antioxidation in the mitochondria, not from the water.

When you fix your sugar metabolism and your metabolism runs fast. I think inhalations of the hydrogen gas is the way to go. You could drink the water also, but you need to dose it specifically, in this situation more is not better no matter what they say in those studies.

IMO malic acid provides a lot more benefits for a slow oxidizer than hydrogen water. For a slow oxidizer hydrogen water gets rid of the brain fog, since it clears the ammonia. And people like it, since ammonia really screws up the brain. But for slow oxidizers it causes fatique unfortunately and body temperatures drop. For the babies who are fast oxidizers and people with cancer, hydrogen water will increase body temperatures by decreasing reverse t3 levels.

So overall I do see potential benefits for both oxidations, but with problems in other areas.

 

[bruschi11]

v

@mattyb @TubZy @bruschi11 @Admiral @Hydro

Hydro , I understand your excitement about the hydrogen but lets not go overboard with it. I have been testing the hydrogen water , and now gas for quite sometime. I know you read the studies and go by them. But at this point they ( Tyler Lebaron and others dont know how hydrogen works. and to tell you the truth the expanations of how it works are wrong according to my tests.

Let me explain my points.

First of all, this did not come from Japan and japanese have nothing to do with this. This whole hydrogen thing came from a Russian guy Volkov who in 1992 proposed this theory.
h-longevity. The discovery of a russian scientist can change the course of mankind's history … Hydrogen against aging, illnesses and death!
The Elixir of Life Part 1 - Dr. Vladimir Volkov | Hemoglobin | Oxygen
Untitled

And it is not about Japanese and Tyler Lebaron , it is about Patrick Flanagan vs Volkov.

Now let me explain the studies how the hydrogen really works, and the results of my tests.

Lets start with the water.

When you drink hydrogen water it does not reach mito at all. It is not a direct antioxidant at all, and there is no reason to compare it to vitamin C or CQ10 . IT does none of that.

First of all , this equation that H2 + 2OH= 2 H2O Is false. I have no idea where they got if from . The real equation is h2+ OH= h20 + H

As you see when hydrogen gas reacts with free radicals it creates water and free hydrogen.

This is why if you drink hydrogen water, already in your stomach most of that H2 gas will turn simply into water and H . And it is basically like drinking acidic water like drinking protonated water.

This increases the artery PH and decreases vein PH.

Now lets go onto the studies.

1) Hydrogen water increases levels of glutathione, SOD and catalase. Any acid will do that. Aspirin does exactly the same. Why?
Since any acid will cause potassium to go down in the cell. This lowers oxidation of sugars . You create much much less superoxide, and thus your enzymes like gluthatione peroxidase , glutathione transferase dont react with the peroxide or super oxide and the numbers of the enzymes grows. This happens simply because your tanked your sugar metabolism. I checked this in and out, with all the PHs potassium levels, and metabolism markers.

2) Hydrogen water reduces lactate after exercise. Hydrogen water leaves the H as acidic residue, this H makes the potassium go down in the cell. This lowers sugar oxidation, and thus lowers the need for lactate. Hydrogen water by lowering potassium in the cell, makes your body works on fats, just like keto diet, and fasting. It causes huge adrenaline demand.

3) Hydrogen water raises testosterone. Same as aspirin , we know that aspirin increases testosterone. Since aspirin lowers potassium in the cell and this causes progesterone and 3 beta HSD to lift up . 3 beta HSD what makes your testosterone,, SO at first testosterone rises. but in 2-3 weeks NADPH falls, since the body will need to conserve potassium in the cell and testosterone will fall and stay down, just like on aspirin.


I have no idea why with all the biochemistry degrees Tyler Lebaron does not get this and they still describe the effects of Hydrogen water wrong and always are surprised how the hydrogen acts, if it is supposed to be out of your system in a heart beat. It is because hydrogen reacting with stuff leaves Hydrogen residue. This is how it works, and it was described by Volkov in 1992 and basically repeated word for word with all the new people basically selling acidic water for much more money.

Bottom line with hydrogen water. NO it is not good for everyone. It is good for people who want to increase their fat oxidation. IT does absolutely nothing as an antioxidant in the mito, since IT never gets there. It turns into acidic water right in your stomach and this lowers your potassium which causes less sugar metabolism thus less creation of free radicals and sugar by products.

this is basically like keto diet.

This is why if you quit the hydrogen you will be even worse than before, you need to be on it forever and ever to feel its effects, It will be exactly like being an alcoholic working on fats.

Hydrogen water is good for the fast oxidizers, ( the cancer type people) who have impaired fat metabolism and basically have low phenylalanine metatabolism. Hydrogen water by increasing H , causes Phenylalalnine metabolism to go full speed, and this lowers its toxic metabolites and clears cancer. Same as Aspirin will do it.


Hydrogen water metabolims is fats first, sugar second and then protein. This is not ideal metabolism


Now Volkov tells people that the best antioxidant is carbonic acid. And he is right. Only antioxidation coming from carbonic acid will make the body work sugars first, fats second, and protein third. This happens when you make tons of CO2 in your cell, via sugar oxidation, and this CO2 then provides antioxidation by turning into carbonic acid and donating hydrogen ion for NADPH .

Slow oxidizers dont have any oxidation in the cell, and thus they are not using their NADPH . and their hydrogen is not used at all and they have too much of it.


Thus if slow oxidizers like Bruschi admiral, Barbaar and other drink hydrogen water, they feel adrenaline right away, shocks and like they are going to die, and also lowering libido, since dopamine turns in to adrenaline. This does not pass, and lower grade adrenaline response keeps going. this is why those people cant sleep.

Now for ghrelin, half of the people on hydrogen water are not hungry at all and their appetite falls dramatically, since those people start living off of fats.


Bottom line Hydrogen water has nothing to do with mito and antioxidation in mito. It is the biggest scam of the last 5 years and it is the most expensive water PH 6 that I saw.

If you look at Hydrogen water drinking Tyler Lebaron, NIck Delgato they all look like beef turkey like keto people

YOu think this looks healthy? No it looks like very low CO2 levels in the cell.

Look corse hair , NIck the guy on the right drank the water for 1.5 years, say bye bye to that hairline, and also looks like beef turkey

Look at Tyler and the Japanese speaker, look at their skin tone, all even and dark,just like on Keto diet.

Hydrogen man Jay ( Hydro), looks the best out of them IMO. Since Jay, buffers his hydrogen intake with potassium bicarbonate with plant based diet.

Since he obviously had a problem with his folate metabolism and just went vegan and tries to lower methionine. Basically all the effects he gets are not from hydrogen , but from his new diet, since he needed that diet. Is it a wrong diet. Yes it is. Is it good for him at fist yes. it is.

Is this hydrogen acidic water Pro Hair. NO it is not, Not even close. Hydrogen makes you work on fats. It is not pro hair, same as ketogenic diet is not pro hair . This is why Jay is avoiding this question ))


I have been drinking hydrogen water for quite some time, if I dont buffer it , I get grey hairs in my beard . And how the hell is that anti oxidation LOL

Only fast oxidizers will have an effect for their hair from hydrogen water since hydrogen will hydrate them. slow oxidizers will get dehydrated on hydrogen

It is very simple to see if hydrogen water leaves hydrogen residue, if a person starts talking faster, you know you are going acidic.


Now lets get to hydrogen inhalation. As hydrogen water is pure rip off and just an acidic substance just like asprin which never gets to mito only indirectly by modulating potassium levels. Now we wonder what hydrogen inhalation will do.

First off all if hydrogen inhalation gets to mito at all, that would be very good, and I would consider it to work. I am still testing hydrogen inhalation and will post my verdict on it in a week or so.

If hydrogen inhalation gets to mito at all which my russian biochemists friends laugh at me and saying that it cant, but if it can , then it could be very good, but needs to be buffered.


You see hydrogen water never gets into the mito . But gas may be can, then the gas will act as an antioxidant in mito but it will react to OH and create H , which will still do the same as hydrogen water does, eventually put you into the fat metabolism scenario. So it needs to be buffered.

As you can see, hydrogen is not understood correctly and not studied correctly and basically promoted wrongly now. And @Hydro at this forum we try to get to the truth, not just read some studies and the interpretations of the ones who are interested .


Now lets get to the machines. I have Lourdes , old model, new model and High Rich hydrogen machine. I tested and drank the water and did the inhalations from all those machines. I found that lourdes has more residue than High rich machine. Plus lourdes machine is very needy and akward.

HIgh Rich machine cost 200 dollars and to me it beats Lourdes with functionality and the actual water tastes nicer to me.

I bought Lourdes and Products - Page 2 of 2 - H2 Miracle Water And no this is not fake site, and actually hydrofix here is 200 dollars cheaper.

I bought the older machine here also and contacted the Koreans directly and my machine was covered and the Koreans fixed if when I broke the machine by doing crazy stuff it))

Bottom line I think Hydrofix and the older models are very very overpriced. and I personally prefer high rich hydrogen machine. I took it to the beach, I put a new dupont membrane into it which is much better than on hydrofix, you can buy it for like for like 30 bux. Also you could charge it in your car, and put the unit in your pocket. Also you can just go the beach with the unit buy a bottle of orange juice screw it on and have buffered hydrogen drink right on the beach.


Nothing leaching from that machine. And actually I dont know why but Lourdes water tastes funnier.

Also why buy an expensive machine now, if in 2 years they will get to how hydrogen really works and they will have much much better machines. and I bet those machines will be with the carbonic acid)) which will be also a rip off, since you can just drink malic acid.

, I am doing only inhalation. and High rich machine does the same inhalation where you dont even get any residue, you just get gas in.


Best antioxidation is done by carbonic acid, Not hydrogen. Carbonic acid is made only when thyroid is working. So drinking malic acid will blow out hydrogen water out of water on any given day. try it , drink malic for a week, and drink hydrogen. On malic you will feel 10 times better. and you will actually have the libido instead of dying libido on hydrogen.


So Jay understand that you are trying to help and stuff, but you and we know little about hydrogen, and it is crazy to talk about it with the authority where most of the authorities dont even understand it yet.

To me if hydrogen will be talked about the way they talk about I will claim that hydrogen will be the biggest scam of the near future.


I will be testing inhalations next week in the lab. I doubt it can ever compare to malic acid thou.



Bottom line, there is absolute no reason to buy expensive machines. If you want to try hydrogen you can try hydrogen with the magnesium rod method where put magnesium in the tube. This way there is absolutely zero leach of magnesium or citric or malic acid in the water. And you get hydrogen of 3-4 PPM much higher than the machines. This method is described in this thread . and as safety is concerned it is much safer than drinking some water from the titanium plates.( as I said Lourdes water tastes funny) And this method is the absolute safest method and cheapest method to try hydrogen. No comparison to Lourdes and no comparison to machines. Zero leach in this method.


To me the ideal value of molecular hydrogen in the water is 0.3 PPM. just like in natural water, This way you dont get much acidic residue and you basically provide a little antioxidation in your stomach when you drink it. and provide hydrogen ions along with chloride since hydrogen alone will cause chloride deficiency



THE CONCLUSION.

So the bottom line verdict, drinking hydrogen water will be the same as drinking protonated water. It does lower your sugar oxidation and it does lower cortisol and you start working on fats just like keto diet. This gives some people energy since their sugar metabolism was impaired. this clears ammonia from high cortisol, but it has its problems.

This might chelate more stuff over time since more glutathione is available to bind things. IT is most ideal for fast oxidizers since fast oxidizers spend NADPH which is niacin, hydrogen , and phosphorus.


I do see benefits for some people from it. but it does not have anything to do with the selective antioxidation in the mitochondria, not from the water.

When you fix your sugar metabolism and your metabolism runs fast. I think inhalations of the hydrogen gas is the way to go. You could drink the water also, but you need to dose it specifically, in this situation more is not better no matter what they say in those studies.

IMO malic acid provides a lot more benefits for a slow oxidizer than hydrogen water

Great detailed post.

I could write a bunch here, but I guess the most important inference/question for you is this...

Myself and several of us have been on this for awhile now. I tried to get off last week and it was bad. It’s going to be a process stopping it. May take weeks if not months.

Is there any stopping method you see possible in making this process go more quickly and smoothly?

Secondly, my fast is supposed to begin in 30 days from today. I was going to include a liter or so if h2 water daily in the fast which now sounds like a horrible decision. Which leaves me with 30 days to get off the stuff. So I really just don’t know what I should do here.

Will drinking loads of malic help get off hydrogen? Is there another route of doing so?

Many questions now, but I think what’s most important is finding out what myself and others who are legitimately now addicted to the stuff- what the heck do we do?

 

[Helen]

v


Great detailed post.

I could write a bunch here, but I guess the most important inference/question for you is this...

Myself and several of us have been on this for awhile now. I tried to get off last week and it was bad. It’s going to be a process stopping it. May take weeks if not months.

Is there any stopping method you see possible in making this process go more quickly and smoothly?

Secondly, my fast is supposed to begin in 30 days from today. I was going to include a liter or so if h2 water daily in the fast which now sounds like a horrible decision. Which leaves me with 30 days to get off the stuff. So I really just don’t know what I should do here.

Will drinking loads of malic help get off hydrogen? Is there another route of doing so?

Many questions now, but I think what’s most important is finding out what myself and others who are legitimately now addicted to the stuff- what the heck do we do?

i was not kidding when I compared hydrogen water to alcohol.

Bruschi think about hydrogen water as a chelator. Hydrogen makes you work on fats, and this basically leaves more glutathione available. You as a slow oxidizer will feel weird on it. but over time it might chelate your heavy metals. This is what I am saying. I am not against hydrogen water, all I am saying that it is the same as protonated water.

During fasting you do get acidic and it could be good for you. For slow oxidizers I would think about hydrogen water as a chelator, for fast oxidizers as a supportive therapy.

You can easily fast on hydrogen water. I did fast on acidic waters and it makes the fast much better. All I am saying that you cant stay on that acidic water forever. it is just a medicine for infections. bacterial mostly.

If you have some kind of infections, fast on hydrogen water and then I will get you off of it later on.


getting off the hydrogen water will be the same as getting off of alcohol.

This is why when people drink wine and live longer, they are basically drinking the same protonated water, only it has more carbonic acid acetic acid, ogranic acids, that increase CO2 production.


In the body to get rid of excess hydrogen is easy, just breathe ozone or increase potassium and thyroid, your hydrogen will be spent in a heart beat. since all of it will go on NADPH.


when you quit hydrogen water your adrenaline runs too fast.and your protons are not there anymore. It is like snap back. So you run into alkalosis , just eat potassium rich foods and you will be fine.

Actually for a slow oxidizer it will be ok to use hydrogen , increase adrenaline this way , and then quit hydrogen and feed potassium. And they might go into fast oxidation.

 

[Snow1]

It does help, and thank you hydro fora

The best thing to do, is use hydrogen water during the day. Everyday if possible. There is research about this. In Japan, they treated a bunch of people with arthritis. Whoever had arthritis the longest, it would take the longest for them to feel better after using hydrogen water. The shorter someone had the condition, the faster they would feel better. If they were to stop drinking the hydrogen water, they would typically feel fine, but eventually the arthritis would return. It all depends on how long you have been drinking the hydrogen water. I have been using it regularly for over 3 years, and if I stop, I am fine. But if I stop for a long time, it's possible for me to start feeling not so good. You must remember that antioxidants is what is key and hydrogen is like a bunch of the most powerful and pemeable antioxidants. One pithcer of 1.5 liters of the hydrogen I make with my hydrofix, is equivelant to roughly the antioxidative power of 1,500 apples. It's also a selective anti oxidant, which is super important. As other anti oxidants, such as CoQ10 have been found to maybe not be so good for you. Plus hydrogen is much smaller, it makes it way deeper into the mitochondria, than anything else. Plus it increases a natural anti oxidant that your own body makes, called glutathione. Which is responsible for detoxing your body. Plus it activates enzymes that fight free radicals in your body, plus hahaha, just kidding. H2 is simply amazing, I would be writing forever if I tried to explain all the

@mattyb @TubZy @bruschi11 @Admiral @Hydro

Hydro , I understand your excitement about the hydrogen but lets not go overboard with it. I have been testing the hydrogen water , and now gas for quite sometime. I know you read the studies and go by them. But at this point they ( Tyler Lebaron and others dont know how hydrogen works. and to tell you the truth the expanations of how it works are wrong according to my tests.

Let me explain my points.

First of all, this did not come from Japan and japanese have nothing to do with this. This whole hydrogen thing came from a Russian guy Volkov who in 1992 proposed this theory.
h-longevity. The discovery of a russian scientist can change the course of mankind's history … Hydrogen against aging, illnesses and death!
The Elixir of Life Part 1 - Dr. Vladimir Volkov | Hemoglobin | Oxygen
Untitled

And it is not about Japanese and Tyler Lebaron , it is about Patrick Flanagan vs Volkov.

Now let me explain the studies how the hydrogen really works, and the results of my tests.

Lets start with the water.

When you drink hydrogen water it does not reach mito at all. It is not a direct antioxidant at all, and there is no reason to compare it to vitamin C or CQ10 . IT does none of that.

First of all , this equation that H2 + 2OH= 2 H2O Is false. I have no idea where they got if from . The real equation is h2+ OH= h20 + H

As you see when hydrogen gas reacts with free radicals it creates water and free hydrogen.

This is why if you drink hydrogen water, already in your stomach most of that H2 gas will turn simply into water and H . And it is basically like drinking acidic water like drinking protonated water.

This increases the artery PH and decreases vein PH.

Now lets go onto the studies.

1) Hydrogen water increases levels of glutathione, SOD and catalase. Any acid will do that. Aspirin does exactly the same. Why?
Since any acid will cause potassium to go down in the cell. This lowers oxidation of sugars . You create much much less superoxide, and thus your enzymes like gluthatione peroxidase , glutathione transferase dont react with the peroxide or super oxide and the numbers of the enzymes grows. This happens simply because your tanked your sugar metabolism. I checked this in and out, with all the PHs potassium levels, and metabolism markers.

2) Hydrogen water reduces lactate after exercise. Hydrogen water leaves the H as acidic residue, this H makes the potassium go down in the cell. This lowers sugar oxidation, and thus lowers the need for lactate. Hydrogen water by lowering potassium in the cell, makes your body works on fats, just like keto diet, and fasting. It causes huge adrenaline demand.

3) Hydrogen water raises testosterone. Same as aspirin , we know that aspirin increases testosterone. Since aspirin lowers potassium in the cell and this causes progesterone and 3 beta HSD to lift up . 3 beta HSD what makes your testosterone,, SO at first testosterone rises. but in 2-3 weeks NADPH falls, since the body will need to conserve potassium in the cell and testosterone will fall and stay down, just like on aspirin.


I have no idea why with all the biochemistry degrees Tyler Lebaron does not get this and they still describe the effects of Hydrogen water wrong and always are surprised how the hydrogen acts, if it is supposed to be out of your system in a heart beat. It is because hydrogen reacting with stuff leaves Hydrogen residue. This is how it works, and it was described by Volkov in 1992 and basically repeated word for word with all the new people basically selling acidic water for much more money.

Bottom line with hydrogen water. NO it is not good for everyone. It is good for people who want to increase their fat oxidation. IT does absolutely nothing as an antioxidant in the mito, since IT never gets there. It turns into acidic water right in your stomach and this lowers your potassium which causes less sugar metabolism thus less creation of free radicals and sugar by products.

this is basically like keto diet.

This is why if you quit the hydrogen you will be even worse than before, you need to be on it forever and ever to feel its effects, It will be exactly like being an alcoholic working on fats.

Hydrogen water is good for the fast oxidizers, ( the cancer type people) who have impaired fat metabolism and basically have low phenylalanine metatabolism. Hydrogen water by increasing H , causes Phenylalalnine metabolism to go full speed, and this lowers its toxic metabolites and clears cancer. Same as Aspirin will do it.


Hydrogen water metabolims is fats first, sugar second and then protein. This is not ideal metabolism


Now Volkov tells people that the best antioxidant is carbonic acid. And he is right. Only antioxidation coming from carbonic acid will make the body work sugars first, fats second, and protein third. This happens when you make tons of CO2 in your cell, via sugar oxidation, and this CO2 then provides antioxidation by turning into carbonic acid and donating hydrogen ion for NADPH .

Slow oxidizers dont have any oxidation in the cell, and thus they are not using their NADPH . and their hydrogen is not used at all and they have too much of it.


Thus if slow oxidizers like Bruschi admiral, Barbaar and other drink hydrogen water, they feel adrenaline right away, shocks and like they are going to die, and also lowering libido, since dopamine turns in to adrenaline. This does not pass, and lower grade adrenaline response keeps going. this is why those people cant sleep.

Now for ghrelin, half of the people on hydrogen water are not hungry at all and their appetite falls dramatically, since those people start living off of fats.


Bottom line Hydrogen water has nothing to do with mito and antioxidation in mito. It is the biggest scam of the last 5 years and it is the most expensive water PH 6 that I saw.

If you look at Hydrogen water drinking Tyler Lebaron, NIck Delgato they all look like beef turkey like keto people

YOu think this looks healthy? No it looks like very low CO2 levels in the cell.

Look corse hair , NIck the guy on the right drank the water for 1.5 years, say bye bye to that hairline, and also looks like beef turkey

Look at Tyler and the Japanese speaker, look at their skin tone, all even and dark,just like on Keto diet.

Hydrogen man Jay ( Hydro), looks the best out of them IMO. Since Jay, buffers his hydrogen intake with potassium bicarbonate with plant based diet.

Since he obviously had a problem with his folate metabolism and just went vegan and tries to lower methionine. Basically all the effects he gets are not from hydrogen , but from his new diet, since he needed that diet. Is it a wrong diet. Yes it is. Is it good for him at fist yes. it is.

Is this hydrogen acidic water Pro Hair. NO it is not, Not even close. Hydrogen makes you work on fats. It is not pro hair, same as ketogenic diet is not pro hair . This is why Jay is avoiding this question ))


I have been drinking hydrogen water for quite some time, if I dont buffer it , I get grey hairs in my beard . And how the hell is that anti oxidation LOL

Only fast oxidizers will have an effect for their hair from hydrogen water since hydrogen will hydrate them. slow oxidizers will get dehydrated on hydrogen

It is very simple to see if hydrogen water leaves hydrogen residue, if a person starts talking faster, you know you are going acidic.


Now lets get to hydrogen inhalation. As hydrogen water is pure rip off and just an acidic substance just like asprin which never gets to mito only indirectly by modulating potassium levels. Now we wonder what hydrogen inhalation will do.

First off all if hydrogen inhalation gets to mito at all, that would be very good, and I would consider it to work. I am still testing hydrogen inhalation and will post my verdict on it in a week or so.

If hydrogen inhalation gets to mito at all which my russian biochemists friends laugh at me and saying that it cant, but if it can , then it could be very good, but needs to be buffered.


You see hydrogen water never gets into the mito . But gas may be can, then the gas will act as an antioxidant in mito but it will react to OH and create H , which will still do the same as hydrogen water does, eventually put you into the fat metabolism scenario. So it needs to be buffered.

As you can see, hydrogen is not understood correctly and not studied correctly and basically promoted wrongly now. And @Hydro at this forum we try to get to the truth, not just read some studies and the interpretations of the ones who are interested .


Now lets get to the machines. I have Lourdes , old model, new model and High Rich hydrogen machine. I tested and drank the water and did the inhalations from all those machines. I found that lourdes has more residue than High rich machine. Plus lourdes machine is very needy and akward.

HIgh Rich machine cost 200 dollars and to me it beats Lourdes with functionality and the actual water tastes nicer to me.

I bought Lourdes and Products - Page 2 of 2 - H2 Miracle Water And no this is not fake site, and actually hydrofix here is 200 dollars cheaper.

I bought the older machine here also and contacted the Koreans directly and my machine was covered and the Koreans fixed if when I broke the machine by doing crazy stuff it))

Bottom line I think Hydrofix and the older models are very very overpriced. and I personally prefer high rich hydrogen machine. I took it to the beach, I put a new dupont membrane into it which is much better than on hydrofix, you can buy it for like for like 30 bux. Also you could charge it in your car, and put the unit in your pocket. Also you can just go the beach with the unit buy a bottle of orange juice screw it on and have buffered hydrogen drink right on the beach.


Nothing leaching from that machine. And actually I dont know why but Lourdes water tastes funnier.

Also why buy an expensive machine now, if in 2 years they will get to how hydrogen really works and they will have much much better machines. and I bet those machines will be with the carbonic acid)) which will be also a rip off, since you can just drink malic acid.

, I am doing only inhalation. and High rich machine does the same inhalation where you dont even get any residue, you just get gas in.


Best antioxidation is done by carbonic acid, Not hydrogen. Carbonic acid is made only when thyroid is working. So drinking malic acid will blow out hydrogen water out of water on any given day. try it , drink malic for a week, and drink hydrogen. On malic you will feel 10 times better. and you will actually have the libido instead of dying libido on hydrogen.


So Jay understand that you are trying to help and stuff, but you and we know little about hydrogen, and it is crazy to talk about it with the authority where most of the authorities dont even understand it yet.

To me if hydrogen will be talked about the way they talk about I will claim that hydrogen will be the biggest scam of the near future.


I will be testing inhalations next week in the lab. I doubt it can ever compare to malic acid thou.



Bottom line, there is absolute no reason to buy expensive machines. If you want to try hydrogen you can try hydrogen with the magnesium rod method where put magnesium in the tube. This way there is absolutely zero leach of magnesium or citric or malic acid in the water. And you get hydrogen of 3-4 PPM much higher than the machines. This method is described in this thread . and as safety is concerned it is much safer than drinking some water from the titanium plates.( as I said Lourdes water tastes funny) And this method is the absolute safest method and cheapest method to try hydrogen. No comparison to Lourdes and no comparison to machines. Zero leach in this method.


To me the ideal value of molecular hydrogen in the water is 0.3 PPM. just like in natural water, This way you dont get much acidic residue and you basically provide a little antioxidation in your stomach when you drink it. and provide hydrogen ions along with chloride since hydrogen alone will cause chloride deficiency



THE CONCLUSION.

So the bottom line verdict, drinking hydrogen water will be the same as drinking protonated water. It does lower your sugar oxidation and it does lower cortisol and you start working on fats just like keto diet. This gives some people energy since their sugar metabolism was impaired. this clears ammonia from high cortisol, but it has its problems.

This might chelate more stuff over time since more glutathione is available to bind things. IT is most ideal for fast oxidizers since fast oxidizers spend NADPH which is niacin, hydrogen , and phosphorus.


I do see benefits for some people from it. but it does not have anything to do with the selective antioxidation in the mitochondria, not from the water.

When you fix your sugar metabolism and your metabolism runs fast. I think inhalations of the hydrogen gas is the way to go. You could drink the water also, but you need to dose it specifically, in this situation more is not better no matter what they say in those studies.

IMO malic acid provides a lot more benefits for a slow oxidizer than hydrogen water. For a slow oxidizer hydrogen water gets rid of the brain fog, since it clears the ammonia. And people like it, since ammonia really screws up the brain. But for slow oxidizers it causes fatique unfortunately and body temperatures drop. For the babies who are fast oxidizers and people with cancer, hydrogen water will increase body temperatures by decreasing reverse t3 levels.

So overall I do see potential benefits for both oxidations, but with problems in other areas.

damm... just spent around 3k Aus on the hydrofix including taxes only to read that! As a slow oxidiser im too scared to touch it.

Arghh fark!

 

[bruschi11]

Good stuff @Helen . H2 is a significant chelator for me and I’m the classic slow oxidizer by both experience (slow metabolism, runs best on carbs) and hair test (elevated mag/cal, lowered potass/sodium.) So you are correct about that and we both know I need the chelation with the toxicities and ammonia I have.

Lowering hydrogen this past week to about .75L daily then increasing it back up to 1.5L daily left me chelating all weekend. Body handled it pretty well except for constipation and fatigue after physical exertions.

This makes sense and makes me more comfortable about fasting on it. Maybe during that fast go to .75L daily on hydrogen rather than the 1.5 L I’m using now.

The challenge will be stopping the stuff eventually. And if we can find a method that makes this process go more smoothly than what I’ve tried in the past thus far.

@Hydro have you heard of anybody having to stop the stuff and experiencing withdrawals? My withdrawals get pretty bad and I think there has to be a way to stop it.

 

[Helen]

It does help, and thank you hydro fora


damm... just spent around 3k Aus on the hydrofix including taxes only to read that! As a slow oxidiser im too scared to touch it.

Arghh fark!

Why it could be good for you as a chelator. but you need to use it periodically. And it might fix your oxidation,.

I am just stating what I found it does, while you are on it.

may be overtime body adjusts to this high levels of protons. I don't know that.

 

[bruschi11]

Hydrogen water + malic acid in fast would be ideal correct @Helen ?

Breuss, hydrogen, and malic seems like my plan unless you tell me otherwise.

 

[Helen]

GUYS relax. All I was saying that hydrogen water is the same as protonated water. Slow oxidizers will feel like total crap on it, but it makes your adrenaline stronger. so when you quit it , it might snap you back to faster metabolism.

As we know bruschi admira, barbaar, all feel like total crap on this with lowerd libido. All my fast oxidziers friends feel high libido on it , and warmer since it lowers their thyroid effect and leaves them with much more fuel.


Think about hydrogen water as a chelator and ELLA for slow oxidizer. as a snap back. And when you go into faster oxidation, you can always use it for a supportive longer term therapy.

 

[Helen]

lets have some statistics from here and see who feels what on hydrogen water

@Admiral @TubZy @bruschi11 @Yura @Hydro @barbaar @Snow1 @Niles

@Hydro we just trying to have control over what we are doing. And it would be nice to see your hairtest also, and understand what and how it is helping you. Please be open with us and so we can move forward and figure out how to use hydrogen properly and for which case. since we do have people feeling terrible on it with zero sleep and near death experiences

I did find that hydrogen works this way how I described it. And I dont know if the body could adjust to the higher proton levels by speeding up oxidation. If it does then good. Only I am not sure how it would do it .

this is why All I am saying that hydrogen is not known how it will work long term on certain people and we should not have 100% assurance that it works or does not work. We need to see what it does to us and how it does it. So we always need to say that is experimental.

I could be wrong about the the long term effects from hydrogen , but from what i have seen, it acts as an acid. and I did not see the body adjust to an acid with the higher metabolism. All alcoholics just go into fat oxidation and stay there. And it might work for some for sure.


So for us , it is not about the machines now. it is about the effects of hydrogen and its usage. People use different methods and get similar results. So it is not about the quality of the machine now.

 

[HerrFisch]

Not much tbh. Maybe more power in the gym. But could be placebo. Still, cheap placebo with only mg rods
Was expecting it to help with sugar metabolism / lactate and maybe better working metabolism.

DIdnt feel any changes in bodytemperature, sleep, mood, all-day-energy.

 

[Snow1]

Why it could be good for you as a chelator. but you need to use it periodically. And it might fix your oxidation,.

I am just stating what I found it does, while you are on it.

may be overtime body adjusts to this high levels of protons. I don't know that.

When you say periodically, are you meaning once a day consistently or only on occasions on and off? Sorry to ask this silly question but periodically can be understood in different ways.

 

[Helen]

When you say periodically, are you meaning once a day consistently or only on occasions on and off? Sorry to ask this silly question but periodically can be understood in different ways.

Dont be scared, hydrogen is just hydrogen, it is not scary, if you have a machine, just use it now everyday and try it out. And see how you feel and do on it. There is nothing wrong with hydrogen , it is not dangerous or anything. IF you dont need it you will feel a lot of inflammation, like your joints will hurt and you will feel gout like symptoms. But when you stop it will all go away.

At first you might feel good actually, but come 2-3 week, you could feel inflammation, if you do, you know that it lowered your potassium and you are too acid.

Just try it. You have the machine. there is nothing scary about it.

 

[Helen]

Not much tbh. Maybe more power in the gym. But could be placebo. Still, cheap placebo with only mg rods
Was expecting it to help with sugar metabolism / lactate and maybe better working metabolism.

DIdnt feel any changes in bodytemperature, sleep, mood, all-day-energy.

dont forget you support your potassium at all times. and taking zinc etc. It is important to take that into the account.

 

[barbaar]

The first few days I felt pretty good, lots of energy and clear headed. Sleep instantly got worse.

Then adrenaline completely took over and made sleeping almost impossible. Still having difficulty sleeping and feel a constant adrenaline type feeling in the background. I should probably take a break from hydrogen and catch up on sleep. I've been awake until ~6am most nights the past week. Only yesterday was ok.

I really liked how I felt the first few days but that didn't last. Maybe it's better for slow oxidizers to only use it for a few days at a time, then take a break in order not to let adrenaline rise too much?

 

[bruschi11]

Thinking about synergy here with fasting and h2. Maybe 1+1 doesn’t = 2 here. Maybe it’s 1+1= 5 so a 1 day h2 water fast could have the efficiency of a normal 5 day water fast.

Just food for thought because my initial liver flush and 36 days were so beneficial for me with this stuff.

I think I’m going to plan a 3 day h2 fast coming up.

 

[Helen]

The first few days I felt pretty good, lots of energy and clear headed. Sleep instantly got worse.

Then adrenaline completely took over and made sleeping almost impossible. Still having difficulty sleeping and feel a constant adrenaline type feeling in the background. I should probably take a break from hydrogen and catch up on sleep. I've been awake until ~6am most nights the past week. Only yesterday was ok.

I really liked how I felt the first few days but that didn't last. Maybe it's better for slow oxidizers to only use it for a few days at a time, then take a break in order not to let adrenaline rise too much?

first 2 days slow oxidizer feels better since your sugars dont work at all and all of a sudden there is energy from fats. but then acidity takes over and adrenaline does not stop. How long have you been on it?

the idea for you was to provoke adrenaline with hydrogen and then quit and eat potassium foods. and may be this snap back will work to cure you.

 

[Snow1]

Thanks

It just worries me how some get lowered libido and it disrupts their sleep on h2 and @bruschi11 is having problems getting off it. Libido and sleep is the exact thing I’m trying to fix and not sure if it’s a good idea spending that much money on something that may make me worse.

It’s currently held in customs so haven’t taken ownership of it just yet.

 

[barbaar]

first 2 days slow oxidizer feels better than your sugars dont work and all of a sudden there is energy from fats. but then acidity takes over and adrenaline does not stop. How long have you been on it?

My machine arrived June 8th, so a little more than two weeks now

 

[bruschi11]

Also, a multivitamin taken last night seemed to take care of constipation this morning.

Maybe rather than one weekly MV I’ll do EOD. Using Thorne. Need to support Bs 1-3 as @Helen suggested.

I think more frequent mineral, vitamin dosing is important here for slow oxidizers as hydrogen speeds us up.

 

[bruschi11]

@Helen is there any way we can test if “acidity has taken over.”