PFS , ( GABA, ARs, DHT testosterone ) Mechanism of PFS continued.

[bruschi11]

I agree. Let’s hope that living out of a suitcase lately and drinking heavily don’t skew my shit too bad, LOL.

Lol the drinking heavily thing regularly thing is just so nice to hear. One day. Can’t wait.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I am on a rollercoaster.
Sexually I'm up and down.
Going from 100% to 20%..very weird.
I think out main issue is Adriana fatigue.
All people i have seen recovering has followed adrenal fatigue protocol to recover. They are to many who recovered this way as Chi did.
Sure it will take a long time.
I did exercise 3 days ago and I feel under a train now.

After exercise you feel bad? Like POIS symptoms?

I only have this on day of excercise itself or when I lift really heavy weights.

It is not bad sign to go up and down. I have read some recoveries who experienced same for a few months.

 

[Trump_1776]

Guys all this stuff is for advanced users, drug junkies LOL those who are on TEI just stay on it. Trust me the drug junkies will eventually all be on TEI. HAHA

We shall see

 

[Trump_1776]

I hope after CSF studies people understand a possible mechanism of PFS more. I posted a possible explanation and the protocol to try , but no one is trying it.

People are on TEI which is good and will cure you , also I approved Cdnuts protocol ( after seeing the studies understanding the mechanism)


I want to try to outline 2 mechanisms here which are interrelated


1) Finasteride is a progestin, as any progestin it bind NADPH. but unlike progesterone it does not convert to allopregnenolone or cortisol using NADPH.

So finasteride lowers allopregnenolone, and also lowers DHT since it binds to NADPH


So now the body has low DHT. Now follow me carefully. since DHT levels go very low. The body overexpresses the ARs in all DHT sensitive tissues

It is mainly in prostate and the BRAIN. Also body acetylates the histone on the ARs proteins. by acetylating histones, the body increases the effect of DHT on gene expression.

This way even with very very little DHT levels in blood, it can act the same way as normal DHT.

Then after you come of the drug. your DHT goes up and you have insane DHT action in the brain , prostate and all DHT sensitive tissues. Since in those tissues DHT is 10 times the volume of testosterone. There is basically no testosterone there.

DHT is a stress hormone, it causes aldosterone secretion and adrenaline secretion beyond regular aldosterone regulation. this is why if a normal healthy person takes DHT bioidentical hormone, that person will lose libido and erections.


SO after you go off finasteride DHT goes back up and now the brain has to lower its action, but histones are already acetylated, and ARs are highly overexpressed in all DHT sensitive places.

So the only way for the body to stop DHT action is to bind it with proteins. and also to methylate DNA to silence the gene expression.

This is why we see extremely low DHT levels in CSF fluid of PFS people. and most people's SHBG goes up, since it is trying very hard to bind DHT.

Since the body turns on the methylation and methylates the DNA to silence DHT action. It does this methylation thing to ALL ARs, and no only in places where DHT is present.

It methylates the DNA in all places. And this way in all other places where testosterone is a major hormone , basically testosterone GETS totally shut down.

Since during PFS testosterone was not low, and ARs were not overexpressed in tissues where testosterone is ACTIVE.

And it is testosterone which is responsible for deep voice, and libido and erections. not DHT.

So basically all tissues which are DHT sensitive have highly overexpressed ARs and and all tissues where testosterone is dominant it has normal ARs. but body is trying to fight DHT and methylates all ARs, and this way DHT gets back to almost normal action in DHT sensitive tissues , but testosterone does not act at all in testosterone sensitive tissues.


This explains why Cdnuts and other proponents of r andro get cured. since they overwhelm the binding of DHT and force the numbers of ARs to die down in DHT sensitive tissues.

and upon withdrawal from DHT, the brain wants more DHT , and it demethylates globally by which it makes testosterone work again.


I think there is a much faster way to do it. You basically need to stop methylation and feed DHT in this moment which will downregulate receptor density .




This also explains why people feel cured while on Anavar or other weak dht derivates like proviron. Since those are weaker than DHT. and are anti dht.

This also explains why you feel better on thyroid. Since THYROID increases the need for estrogen, and basically turns more testosterone into estrogen and less into DHT , which balances the ratio of testosterone to DHT. Less DHT equals more working testosterone.


Basically the problem is in the ratio of action of testosterone and DHT in their sensitive tissues.

DHT got very strong in its tissues, and this basically switches off testosterone action globally.

This is why anyone who has PFS will feel totally recovered by taking testosterone plus thyroid as a stilt.. Since thyroid will lower DHT and increase estrogen, which will steer the ratio of DHT - Testosterone to the testosterone side.



2) second problem is that finasteride killed

both GABA regulators at the same time. allopregnenolone and 3 adiol.

I would assume it will upregulate gaba receptor big time, and later it could stop 3 alpha hsd from working after you come off the drug, which is basically making the DHT problem described above even worse, since 3 alpha hsd is needed to convert DHT into 3 adiol.


This explains why some people had success with GHB which overtime downregulated GABA A receptor, and allowed DHT levels to come down which basically helped the DHT receptor overexpression problem.

I would assume this route could help the situation to some extent.



This mechanism explains hormone levels in CSF.

You need to understand that only free forms of hormones act on the brain. and prostate. if you want to measure DHT, you need to measure free DHT, not total DHT .

And when you measure all of the free forms, you will see that it should match the CSF study. Since only free hormones can enter CSF fluid.

Just reread this. I wonder if any of the folks at PH back in the day thay tested DHT tested its free form? That is a good point and a solid question.

 

[Walker]

Lol the drinking heavily thing regularly thing is just so nice to hear. One day. Can’t wait.

It is. It is one thing when during recovery I was worried I’d never be able to do again. No issues at all. You'll be enjoying life again before you know it.

 

[Helen]

By the way, since testosterone increases iron availability and increases iron absorption, HIGH cell iron will lower testosterone action. and levels. and will downregulate AR also.

This is why it is very important to have NADPH and FAD, since without them you cant make nitric oxide. and you will be toxic in copper and iron.

And NADPH is what runs 5AR. so if you have overexpressed ARs somewhere in DHT sensitive tissues. you get iron toxic in the cell since your NADPH will be inhibited.

Thus you see this happen a lot in saw palmetto cases. And their testosterone will not work @Goose12



@joekool

 

[Helen]

Thus it is very important to understand that if brain is overloaded with copper ior iron, this will lower testosterone estrogen, and LH.

 

[Admiral]

Thus it is very important to understand that if brain is overloaded with copper ior iron, this will lower testosterone estrogen, and LH.

This sounds so me..

 

[Helen]

This sounds so me..

this is why it is good if you go on TEI , they will get rid of it.

 

[Admiral]

I'm on TEI, brother. They currently give me plenty of copper and no other minerals. Going through the motions, but I can't quite grasp how this cycle will help.

 

[tallglass13]

@Helen , that's very interesting you say DHT is a stress hormone... I've never heard anyone mention it like that...

 

[tallglass13]

So the only safe way to block DHT is with testosterone and thyroid? I know that's a stilt, but if we can keep that going forever could we do that

 

[Trump_1776]

@Helen , that's very interesting you say DHT is a stress hormone... I've never heard anyone mention it like that...

Androgens increase with stress

 

[MNK99]

Gotta be a stress hormone. Clearly strong as fuck on Randro but should be away from stressful people. Whereas 4andro smiling, sensitive, and sweet. I'm likely highly reactive.

 

[tallglass13]

Ok so many good things coming out of Helen today... I love when he drops the scientific s*** on us... Hardcore... Hard to understand sometimes got to read it over and over...
Overall it sounds like thyroid is good... Maybe a little anavar,,, maybe a little real testosterone... Along with good diet that supplies all minerals vitamins... I wish there was a way to lower DHT big time but to grow hair but also grow penis... I'm definitely not scared of estrogen anymore... so thyroid helps increase estrogen lowers DHt... testosterone is good for male stuff... Dutasteride lowers DHT and increases testosterone... but makes people impotent, why? If it increases testosterone... it should give better everything plus hair... I guess cuz finasteride and dutasteride ruin the ability to even make DHT... Which we need a little bit of... So how to lower DHT but still be able to make it?

 

[Trump_1776]

Ok so many good things coming out of Helen today... I love when he drops the scientific s*** on us... Hardcore... Hard to understand sometimes got to read it over and over...
Overall it sounds like thyroid is good... Maybe a little anavar,,, maybe a little real testosterone... Along with good diet that supplies all minerals vitamins... I wish there was a way to lower DHT big time but to grow hair but also grow penis... I'm definitely not scared of estrogen anymore... so thyroid helps increase estrogen lowers DHt... testosterone is good for male stuff... Dutasteride lowers DHT and increases testosterone... but makes people impotent, why? If it increases testosterone... it should give better everything plus hair... I guess cuz finasteride and dutasteride ruin the ability to even make DHT... Which we need a little bit of... So how to lower DHT but still be able to make it?

You do not want to lower DHT and Testosterone will not block DHT

 

[Helen]

Ok so many good things coming out of Helen today... I love when he drops the scientific s*** on us... Hardcore... Hard to understand sometimes got to read it over and over...
Overall it sounds like thyroid is good... Maybe a little anavar,,, maybe a little real testosterone... Along with good diet that supplies all minerals vitamins... I wish there was a way to lower DHT big time but to grow hair but also grow penis... I'm definitely not scared of estrogen anymore... so thyroid helps increase estrogen lowers DHt... testosterone is good for male stuff... Dutasteride lowers DHT and increases testosterone... but makes people impotent, why? If it increases testosterone... it should give better everything plus hair... I guess cuz finasteride and dutasteride ruin the ability to even make DHT... Which we need a little bit of... So how to lower DHT but still be able to make it?

niether fin nor duta makes people impotent, it makes them impotent only if DHT is inhibited too much.

I had really high DHT. and when I used fin, and my DHT came down from 5000 into 500 range, ( 200-800 is a normal range.)

this finished my panic attacks, it increased my libido and erections like crazy. I increased my energy 10 fold.

I was much better on finasteride.

But as a long term solution it is bad. since it inhibits NADPH.


If your DHT is high, finasteride taken properly increases libido erections and energy . but most people just randomly take that shit and suppress DHT to super low.


taking hormones is a waste. hormones are there to retain minerals. blocking hormones is also a waste

you are not suppose to block anything or block 5 alpha reductase)) that is ridiculous. you cant bind NADPH, that is your gluthathione action. This is why all these drugs are idiotic.

So nor fin nor duta no other bs should ever be used. They bind NADPH.




Hairloss with high DHT happens because of lack of glucorinidation. you need to break down DHT not inhibit its production by binding NADPH, which inhibits 20 other important places.



YOu need to understand that to have properly working Nitric oxide system , you need to have balanced system and minerals.


If you have low manganese for instance, you will have low SODs in mitochondria, and your nitric oxide will be TURNED Off.

Iron toxicity could cause this. this is why ALL 100% of hairloss people have impaired manganese metabolism


How is testosterone going to help you . if it retains IRON. People lose hair on steroids.))


Taking thyroid will create oxidative stress and ruin and go thru your hair also , since it will put pressure on SOds system.

Thyroid action is increased by potassium, potassium is retained by progesterone, progesterone is made with NAD.

So if people take progesterone, steroids, block DHT, do whatever, IT WILL DO NOTHING., since it is building blocks that you need to support proper nitric oxide.

Not taking end products. like to build progesterone you need b2 iron b6. why? because when you increase progesterone with them you will retain potassium and speed up thyroid. thyroid will increase oxidative stress. And that will kill your hair. this is why thyroid action goes up where there is enough b2 b6 to support antioxidation.

So availability of antioxidants ALLOWS the metabolism to go up. And people do the opposite, they increase the metabolism and this lowers already low antioxidant systems. and they wonder they they lose hair on thyroid. or on finasteride.


People are crazy and think they can just give hormones which is the level higher. WHy. the problem is on the lower micro level. To get rid of hairloss, you need to build up form the bottom, and feeding some hormones wont do anything at all.


I dont understand why you dont go on TEI. TEI will balance your antioxidation system and oxidation.


steroids , fin , will do NOTHING for the hair.

 

[Helen]

@tallglass13 STop fucking with hormones, Hormones is your body 's regulation system. your body regulates your system by increasing and decreasing hormones, to retain or flush the minerals.

but people are funny, they see high estrogen, they go ahead and suppress it. WTF they body i trying to retain the copper. and you just suppress it? what do you think will happen if you do that. The body will have no other way but to implement the epigenetic change to survive. It will acetylate histones on estrogen receptors and will treat super low estrogen level as high estrogen, and then you will be retaining copper like crazy for the rest of your life.


You see how dangerous it is to fuck with hormones, or drugs. Body is trying to regulate you using them. you can regulate your hormones by using minerals and vitamins,

and amino acids, those are your building blocks.

But instead people are trying to play GOD, and keep taking hormones. YOU have no idea how to regulate the body with the hormones.


Open up google and put in high testosterone and DEATH. you will see that people with high testoterone live much much much shorter.

Since testoserone increases iron absorption and you will likely to get cancer. And infections. Sepsis is like 50% in those taking testosterone.

You just overload in iron))

this is why as men age their LH goes down, and their testosterone is DOWN.

Why? since they are IRON toxic.


And what stupid doctors do? they give those people testosterone.)) and then people dont understand why they feel lethargic and depressed.

Since iron will cause parkinsons. It will go up in the brain, and will keep breaking down dopamine.

this is why they use iron chelators for parkinson, or high dose b2 without red meat in the diet, and those people get better



Testosterone should only go up when metabolism is high .and metabolism will be high when there is proper antioxidation system in place.

You cant just take hormones and expect balanced body. Hormones are not part of the food for humans. Hormones are the level higher.

 

[Helen]

This is why fasting is so anti aging. fasting allows minerals to be used up, especially iron . copper etc. from your liver from your brain.

and then after fasting , you will have higher LH and higher testosterone , higher everything. since the body will be allowed to use hormones

Why do you think people look super young in POIS. they have not working testosterone. Most POIS people look 10-20 years younger. especially if they have low testosterone levels.

It is good to keep testoterone and all steroids low. if you want to stay young.


This is why calorie restriction works, and iron chelation. It lowers and keep your steroids very low. and it keep your iron intake also very low.


And now look at people who take steroids. )) at 19 they look 40


People should stop thinking about testosterone as some wonder hormones. It does NOTHING but retains IRON in the body.

IRON makes nitric oxide. but you need antioxidants, to allow nitric oxide to work.

this is why your testosterone turns into estrogen which retains copper for the SODs. and this is why estrogen give you super pump and without it you cant grow muscle.

Since estrogen will provide SOds and copper, and this allows your iron to work.

but people think only about testosterone as building protein hormones, which is retarded.

Nitric oxide system is complex and made from iron, b2 b1 sods, manganese glutathione. and many other systems.

And feeding testosterone just gives IRON. it is one little block of it




The safest stilt is testosterone with the thyroid. but I am sure people will run into the problems down the road on this route eventually.

 

[Helen]

@tallglass13 Thyroid increases LH, why? since thyroid asks for estrogen to cap it. This is why if you take thyroid, you automatically increase LH.

Since the thyroid asks for estrogen, then conversion to estrogen goes higher, than to DHT, and DHT levels fall.

this is why it works for PFS as a stilt. Since it increases Testosterone to DHT ratio. which allow testosterone to work.


anavar blocks DHT. action, thus if you take anavar like 2mg a day, I think it is a much better regimen than taking finasteride for life.. This is why people who take anavar notice much less hairloss and hair recovery while on anavar. BUT when they quit anavar , hairloss goes into overdrive.

the problem with anavar it is liver toxic .and it wil impair glucoronidation all by itself))



Lets look at the example of people with the hairloss. not PFS, just regular MPB


Most of those people have high DHT. But I assume that DHT is high since they cant break it down by glucoronidation.

The reason is lack of NAD. NAD increases progesterone in the body , which increases thyroid action, which 1) lowers testosterone to DHT conversion 2) breaks down DHT by UDP enzymes. glucoronidation.


In the body NAD is made by IDO and TDO enzymes. which is IRON, b2 b6 vitamin C pathway .

B2 is used up hugely in glutathione enzymes. so where there is a problems with copper toxicity or heavy metal toxicity , aluminium. Then b2 is used up, and this decreases NAD and this stops glucoronidation. 3 adiol , dht go high. which lower potassium , which then lowers estrogen action, and HISTAMINE GOES UP. and you get that histamine hairloss itch.


As we see that hairloss it mostly a problem with glutathione recycling.

How are you going to fix that with some hormones)) or blocking some hormones without causing more trouble


People with hairloss need to fast, do liver flushes, clean themselves out, increase B vitamins, go on TEI, swim in a ocean. eat healthy. may be do low grade constant chelation .

that is what you need to do to fix it.

And what people do ? they put shit on their head. they take some stupid drugs. etc.

How is the drug going to fix your nitric oxide metabolism

it is very simply open up wikipedia and look at Nitric oxide synthase.

Look it up and see what cofactors it needs.

Iron , bh4( vitamin C , folic acid) , nadph( manganese b1) fad ( magnesium b2) glutathione.)) sods extracellular( zinc copper histidine) ) , Sods intracellular( manganese histidine, potassium( b6 b5) . magnesium ))

You see how much it needs. How taking some drug will fix this.