RU Trials continued

[joekool]

Found this OLD post on a forum from 2001... everything is quotes is from the old forum but talks about a dosage of 1MG/lb while on DECA so, to me, that means RU blocks true progesterone (i think we knew that) WHILE sparing progestins such as DECA (Why would 1 take DECA only to block it? ) Interesting write up nonetheless

"
The problems associated with a 200mg dose EOD(or 1mg/lb EOD) is that cortisol gets suppressed TOO MUCH.
What happens: Low cortisol levels inhibit protein degradation BUT also INCREASE recovery time of pulls/strains etc...
SO, what happenned(I'm assumming you all train relatively heavy) was that my muscle got very sore, I got some twitches and some cramps. Nothing major, but nevertheless noteworthy.

After getting my Med school friend to test cortisol levels we found that they were a tad too low at the dosage of RU-486 I specified above.

We therefore had two options:
1. Keep the dosage the same but ADD cortisone shots.
2. Lower the dosage, and let some of the progestins latch on to their respective receptors.
(This isn't altogether so bad because progesterone is LIPOLYTIC)

Obviously choice #1 is out of the question unless you want arthritis by the time you're 30, so I went wth option #2.
We therefore lowered the dosage to 200mg E3D(1mg/lb E3D) and kept on going.

Well, after that things went GREAT. No cramps ,twitches pulls etc...
So, the benefits of RU-486 at 1mg/lb E3D:

1. Block progesterone to the same dregree as Novaldex blocks estrogen.
As a bonus, the progestins that aren't blocked are lipolytic to boot. Estrogen on the other hand IS NOT LIPOLYTIC.

2. Blocks endogeneous cortisone to the safest lowest point. Due to this, protein degradation is curbed by a fair amount. This alone can yield 10-15% better gains. Also, the specified dosage does not cause any muscular problems.

3. As far as Deca-dick is concerned, the reason some people get it is due to the progesterone which
shuts down the HPTA quite severely. Now, we've PARTIALLY blocked the progesterone
from its receptors w/ the RU, so MOST people will NOT get Deca-dick.
BUT, highly subsceptble individuals w/ a great sensitivity to progesterone will experience Deca
dick no matter what.
But as a whole, the majority of the people using the RU w/ Deca who had Deca-dick in the past will not get it."

 

[Orion]

Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.

From his quotes:

"From week 2 on Clomid, you need to start taking Zinc with vitamin E. Don't take Zinc before that. Zinc needs to be taken since if not taken while you lower Clomid it won't cure you.

Also, you need to use Dostinex, half a pill, once a week. To let your steroid production, go up.

3) Progesterone receptors depend on Potassium inside of the cell. So, if Potassium is high in the cell, receptors get downregulated.
So, anything that puts Potassium in the cell will downregulate Progesterone receptors. I guess Potassium bicarbonate will downregulate the receptors, but then to start up the system you will need to take Zinc with a lot of HCL to get Potassium out of the cell to jump start 3 beta HSD

If body needs Potassium it upregulates 3 beta HSD. (reason for the hairloss in the first place). Potassium makes the cell sensitive to thyroid hormone, without Potassium in the cell, no cellular CO2, hairloss. Nothing to do with DHT.

Also, you can get propecia symptoms from excessive masturbation. When you do that your Zinc levels are kept low for a while and your 3 beta HSD (Zinc dependent) and NAD is low for a while. This upregulates your Progesterone receptors almost identical to propecia and you crash with POIS syndrome.

Therefore, fasting helps this syndrome. fasting for 30-40 days will downregulate Progesterone receptors since body will need tons of Cortisol while you are fasting."

 

[Helen]

Mattyb , there was a guy on rpf by the nick of tyw,in his clinical experience ,he said that high doses of betaine HCl in order of ~10-20 g have been used to purge out an existing infection. This is due to supraphysiological levels of Cl- ions which somehow the pathogens can't withstand (neutrophil mediated action most likely ). This method was also supposedly used in the 1930s

I could see that working for bacterial infections and most fungal infections, not because of Cl- though, but because of the acidification (H+).

I disagree with Gbolduev about fungal infections. Everything I've read is that common fungal infections are much more likely to alkalize their environment in order to inhibit fungal proteases that function best in low pH environments and because they proliferate more in alkaline environments. Fungi have special mechanisms for producing excess ammonia, which raises pH.

See:
http://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1006149
http://mbio.asm.org/content/2/3/e00055-11.full

It would make most viral infections much worse, unless the acidification was super intense (but then you are risk of damaging the host, so that would be stupid). Viral infections love low pH, bacteria and fungus love high pH. Again, these are general trends and there are always exceptions.

Athletes foot will develop in acidosis. I got it many times when I tried to acidify myself with acids many years ago. Nails were getting all eaten by fungus as I was getting more and more acidic. I loved acids for other things, but this fungus thing was crazy. Baking soda gets rid of it. May be there are different types of fungus. Since when I tried to alkalanize myself a lot when I had cancer, I would get different kind of fungus on my belly button.

 

[Namelk]

Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.

From his quotes:

"From week 2 on Clomid, you need to start taking Zinc with vitamin E. Don't take Zinc before that. Zinc needs to be taken since if not taken while you lower Clomid it won't cure you.


Thanks for replying, but also have another post saying that you should start taking zinc 2 weeks after starting the protocol, this one.

Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 WEEKS AFTER START, begin taking Zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E
*can substitute Enclomiphene for clomiphene at half the dose
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute


that is why I have this doubt.

I started the protocol and I'm on the third day of clomid 150 mg, so I need to confirm this

[mention]Orion[/mention] [mention]gbolduev[/mention]

 

[mattyb]

Athletes foot will develop in acidosis. I got it many times when I tried to acidify myself with acids many years ago. Nails were getting all eaten by fungus as I was getting more and more acidic. I loved acids for other things, but this fungus thing was crazy. Baking soda gets rid of it. May be there are different types of fungus. Since when I tried to alkalanize myself a lot when I had cancer, I would get different kind of fungus on my belly button.

If I had to guess, I would say there is likely a difference between fungi on the inside or outside of the body. All the research I have done has been mostly focused on intestinal fungi which generally require and promote high pH.

Skin is quite acidic (pH below 5). This is an interesting paper on skin acidity being a requirement to maintain adhesion of skin flora. At high pH the skin loses it's flora. Maybe this is one reason why people fasting, who are more likely to be in metabolic acidosis, have noted improvements in skin quality? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18489300

Possibly skin flora keeps invasion from fungal infections at bay? We know that diverse bacterial populations in the intestine keep each other in check and inhibit bacterial overgrowth through resource competition. There could possibly be something similar going on with our skin that may stop fungal infections from establishing on our skin. Either that or some fungi just like really acidic conditions.

Interesting aside - low arterial pH is a determinant of death from bacterial skin infection (V. vulnificus). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4313626/

 

[TubZy]

Found this OLD post on a forum from 2001... everything is quotes is from the old forum but talks about a dosage of 1MG/lb while on DECA so, to me, that means RU blocks true progesterone (i think we knew that) WHILE sparing progestins such as DECA (Why would 1 take DECA only to block it? ) Interesting write up nonetheless

"
The problems associated with a 200mg dose EOD(or 1mg/lb EOD) is that cortisol gets suppressed TOO MUCH.
What happens: Low cortisol levels inhibit protein degradation BUT also INCREASE recovery time of pulls/strains etc...
SO, what happenned(I'm assumming you all train relatively heavy) was that my muscle got very sore, I got some twitches and some cramps. Nothing major, but nevertheless noteworthy.

After getting my Med school friend to test cortisol levels we found that they were a tad too low at the dosage of RU-486 I specified above.

We therefore had two options:
1. Keep the dosage the same but ADD cortisone shots.
2. Lower the dosage, and let some of the progestins latch on to their respective receptors.
(This isn't altogether so bad because progesterone is LIPOLYTIC)

Obviously choice #1 is out of the question unless you want arthritis by the time you're 30, so I went wth option #2.
We therefore lowered the dosage to 200mg E3D(1mg/lb E3D) and kept on going.

Well, after that things went GREAT. No cramps ,twitches pulls etc...
So, the benefits of RU-486 at 1mg/lb E3D:

1. Block progesterone to the same dregree as Novaldex blocks estrogen.
As a bonus, the progestins that aren't blocked are lipolytic to boot. Estrogen on the other hand IS NOT LIPOLYTIC.

2. Blocks endogeneous cortisone to the safest lowest point. Due to this, protein degradation is curbed by a fair amount. This alone can yield 10-15% better gains. Also, the specified dosage does not cause any muscular problems.

3. As far as Deca-dick is concerned, the reason some people get it is due to the progesterone which
shuts down the HPTA quite severely. Now, we've PARTIALLY blocked the progesterone
from its receptors w/ the RU, so MOST people will NOT get Deca-dick.
BUT, highly subsceptble individuals w/ a great sensitivity to progesterone will experience Deca
dick no matter what.
But as a whole, the majority of the people using the RU w/ Deca who had Deca-dick in the past will not get it."

We were doing way too much over a long period of time too...durimg our trial. No wonder why we felt like shit towards the end

 

[joekool]

Also, this quote gets me nervous:

"im wondering how safe it is to block your normal cortisol levels.....the body needs corticosteroids for daily function and releases cortisol during times of stress. People who take corticosteroids like prednisone MUST taper it down or else they will DIE from not having any due to their adrenals being shutdown from the exogenous dosage"

But again: "Women btw, take 600mg RU-486 every day for 14 days for abortions. Thats 9 times what we're taking. This dosage pretty much completely suppresses progesterone."

So I don't know how much cortisol we blocked and how much danger we really tinkered with... I've stopped prednisone cold in the past too so who knows how common that death is but yes, I think something short to crash prog levels could benefit us ... it may be why I actually didn't have a horrible ending, because only days 4 thru 9 (5 total) were at 50mgs... and one of the best morning woods in ages was the signal it's time to stop... and i've always had neck pains / headaches... so that signal by last 48 hours weren't too too unusual...

 

[TubZy]

Also, this quote gets me nervous:

"im wondering how safe it is to block your normal cortisol levels.....the body needs corticosteroids for daily function and releases cortisol during times of stress. People who take corticosteroids like prednisone MUST taper it down or else they will DIE from not having any due to their adrenals being shutdown from the exogenous dosage"

But again: "Women btw, take 600mg RU-486 every day for 14 days for abortions. Thats 9 times what we're taking. This dosage pretty much completely suppresses progesterone."

So I don't know how much cortisol we blocked and how much danger we really tinkered with... I've stopped prednisone cold in the past too so who knows how common that death is but yes, I think something short to crash prog levels could benefit us ... it may be why I actually didn't have a horrible ending, because only days 4 thru 9 (5 total) were at 50mgs... and one of the best morning woods in ages was the signal it's time to stop... and i've always had neck pains / headaches... so that signal by last 48 hours weren't too too unusual...

My joints did ache, but I also read it could be from high adrealine too, it's odd though high adrenaline and low cortisol have like the same symptoms.

I guess the question is how to bring cortisol back up to normal quicker after it has been blocked assuming it is sensitive again? Would it just be putting potassium back into the cell i.e. the zinc and cofactor pathway?

 

[Namelk]

Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.

one post says :

"From week 2 on Clomid, you need to start taking Zinc with vitamin E. Don't take Zinc before that. Zinc needs to be taken since if not taken while you lower Clomid it won't cure you.

but also have another post saying that you should start taking zinc 2 weeks after starting the protocol, this one.

Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 WEEKS AFTER START, begin taking Zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E
*can substitute Enclomiphene for clomiphene at half the dose
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute

Do I need to know if I start taking zinc at the beginning of the second week when I decrease the dose of clomid to 50 mg or 2 weeks after the start of the protocol that would be in the second week taking the clomid 50 mg?
that is why I have this doubt.

or to answer me better, tell me if I start with zinc after 7 days of protocol or after 14 days?

I started the protocol and I'm on the third day of clomid 150 mg, so I need to confirm this

[mention]gbolduev[/mention]

 

[TubZy]

[mention]gbolduev[/mention] have you researched Cytadren before?

I also thought this was interesting in terms of certain AAS (winstrol, superdrol, anadrol) the are anti prog but also block the cortisol receptor sites.
https://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/lowering-cortisol-levels-284524.html

Very simple, steriods block the cortisol recepter sites. They do not lower cortisol levels. When you come off a cycle you have higher cortisol levels because there re-uptake was blocked by whatever steriod you were taking.

Clenbuterol is a beta agonist and has very little to due with cortisol. Its primary effect is on the nor-epiniphrine receptor sites increasing body temperature and metabolic rate. Side effects include increased blood pressure and heart rate.

Hope that helps.

Zag-

 

[Helen]

Here is the study , which clearly states what I said about RU and progesterone.

This explains POIS< PSSD, low high insulin, PFS.

Read this study carefully., study it, it will answer all your questions

http://www.pnas.org/content/99/24/15644.full

[mention]BeLikeWater[/mention]

 

[wuf]

Could someone tell me if I start taking zinc on the first day that I decrease the clomid to 50 mg or in the second week taking 50 mg of clomid? one post says to take when you start to decrease the clomid and another says to start 2 weeks after starting the protocol, so I have that doubt now.

one post says :

"From week 2 on Clomid, you need to start taking Zinc with vitamin E. Don't take Zinc before that. Zinc needs to be taken since if not taken while you lower Clomid it won't cure you.

but also have another post saying that you should start taking zinc 2 weeks after starting the protocol, this one.

Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 WEEKS AFTER START, begin taking Zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E
*can substitute Enclomiphene for clomiphene at half the dose
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute

Do I need to know if I start taking zinc at the beginning of the second week when I decrease the dose of clomid to 50 mg or 2 weeks after the start of the protocol that would be in the second week taking the clomid 50 mg?
that is why I have this doubt.

or to answer me better, tell me if I start with zinc after 7 days of protocol or after 14 days?

I started the protocol and I'm on the third day of clomid 150 mg, so I need to confirm this

[mention]gbolduev[/mention]

Guys, could anyone confirm to Namelk how to do it?..I do not have clue about this protocol, but I guess he needs an answer as he's already jumped on the protocol.
Sorry to interfere but I can see he is asking this from 3-4 posts...LOL

 

[aztec]

[mention]Namelk[/mention] I am not certain but it sounds like you need to add zinc once you’ve completed 2 weeks of clomid. In other words, add zinc on day 14. I can see where it becomes confusing. Hopefully [mention]gbolduev[/mention] can confirm this for you soon. Wishing you a successful outcome.

 

[Snell1234]

@Namelk I am not certain but it sounds like you need to add zinc once you’ve completed 2 weeks of clomid. In other words, add zinc on day 14. I can see where it becomes confusing. Hopefully @gbolduev can confirm this for you soon. Wishing you a successful outcome.

@Namelk the way I read it was to start zinc on day 8.

 

[BeLikeWater]

Im gonna try to take Zinc for a week lets see.

 

[Snell1234]

Im gonna try to take Zinc for a week lets see.

Hold on. Stop lol. Taking zinc on its own is NOT recommended. He said that will make you worse.

Are you doing the clomid dostinex protocol?

If you aren't, don't take zinc.

 

[wuf]

Ok guys, I want to give you a little update about an old contact/friend coming out from my father..
This man is a scientist/biologist, he just wrote me and he will seriously start to study on my personal case.
I will suggest him [mention]gbolduev[/mention] 's theory and see what he thinks...he told me he has cured different people from different bad illness where doctors did not find the cause and the problem but he did and cured...the good news is that this man is interested into looking seriously on what is going on, and believe me, I met him one time many years ago and my father told me about him that he is one of the most important scientist ever and he is travelling all around the world to give lessons all around the globe to university and doctors.
I will update you all just after he will tell me about my case.. and it will take 2/3 weeks since he is not back to Europe cause on working travelling.
...just some more hope from someone that can understand what the mess is about.
Dear god, I hope that you can save me.

 

[Namelk]

@Namelk I am not certain but it sounds like you need to add zinc once you’ve completed 2 weeks of clomid. In other words, add zinc on day 14. I can see where it becomes confusing. Hopefully @gbolduev can confirm this for you soon. Wishing you a successful outcome.

Thank you my friend, my last hope is this protocol, I can not live like this anymore, I'm about to commit suicide, I took accutane at 16 and now I'm 20, since then I have no feelings, my penis is dead, I'm tired 24 hours by day, I have no desire or pleasure to do anything, no ambitions, it seems that I am dead inside, I live alone and I still have to work hard to survive and live with all these collaterals, I can not live like this anymore.
I'm sorry for my bad English, I'm a Brazilian.

I need this confirmation @gbolduev please

 

[mattyb]

If there is one constant problem I am seeing with many people attempting these "protocols" it is the lack of consistency and discipline. Think of yourself like a scientific experiment. You can't be screwing things up by taking a bunch of different supps at random times while also taking the primary drug (Ella, RU, whatever), or before and after. Things interact in unknown and unreliable ways.

If you guys want results that other people can actually put into use, this needs to be done more systematically. If you are going to try something like Ella/RU you need to do a proper washout before and after - take a few weeks of no supps, eating normally, etc. before jumping into it.

I organize and run studies for a living, you guys would be nightmare participants for me. You would seriously ruin my research haha.

If you all want to do this more systematically I can help by creating questionnaires to understand symptoms/lifestyle/diet/etc, and if you agree on protocols/meds to try out, we can create documents for people to follow with recommended before/after blood tests. I can make all this stuff so it can be followed easily and evaluated properly.

I guess this ultimately comes down to one thing - do you want your successes and failures to have the best chance of helping others or not? I completely understand wanting to just fix yourself in the shortest amount of time possible. So it is up to you. I don't have any PFS problems or anything, but I think patient-led research like this is the future, and I am willing to help make it happen. I think what's being done here has a ton of potential.

 

[aztec]

[mention]Namelk[/mention] never quit my friend. You will heal and be kind to yourself. You have so much to live for and with faith everything is possible. The guys on here are wonderful and I am sure your protocol will help you a lot. At this point, surround yourself with supportive friends and tackle this plague with all your might. [mention]gbolduev[/mention] will respond to you and I believe [mention]TubZy[/mention] or one of the guys ran this cycle with the guidance of [mention]gbolduev[/mention]. Keep your head up man, you got this!