RU Trials continued

[Orion]

@Namelk I am not certain but it sounds like you need to add zinc once you’ve completed 2 weeks of clomid. In other words, add zinc on day 14. I can see where it becomes confusing. Hopefully @gbolduev can confirm this for you soon. Wishing you a successful outcome.

Thank you my friend, my last hope is this protocol, I can not live like this anymore, I'm about to commit suicide, I took accutane at 16 and now I'm 20, since then I have no feelings, my penis is dead, I'm tired 24 hours by day, I have no desire or pleasure to do anything, no ambitions, it seems that I am dead inside, I live alone and I still have to work hard to survive and live with all these collaterals, I can not live like this anymore.
I'm sorry for my bad English, I'm a Brazilian.

I need this confirmation @gbolduev please

You really need hair test and if you can blood work, to see where you stand with respect to accutane.

Read through this thread: http://hackstasis.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=122

This naturopath will do international clients for hairtests: http://nutritionrestored.com/contact-us/


1) Case #1 you are left with high Potassium in the cell and alkalosis. Where Progesterone or Enclomid can cure you by lowering Potassium as a snap back when you get off it and you feel terrible on Progesterone or Clomid when you do it. Case 1 seems to be an upregulation of Progesterone receptors accompanied with high Estrogen, normal levels of T, low Cortisol.
Case #1 – agonized/activates receptors
Symptoms: low DHT, high Estrogen, high Potassium
Protocols:
0) Optional: fast for 1 month before doing any of these
1) Clomiphene ED 150mg 3 days, 100mg 4 days, 50mg 2 weeks, 25mg 4 weeks; cabergoline 0.25mg E4D; 2 weeks after start, begin taking Zinc gluconate 20-50mg + NAD 500mg + vitamin E
*can substitute Enclomiphene for clomiphene at half the dose
*can substitute dexamethasone for clomiphene as well
*key is to slowly reduce the dose of clomiphene or substitute
2) Progesterone 50-400mg ED for 3 - 7 days’ w/ water fast; then start on Zinc + NAD
3) Magnesium 1000mg + B6 100-200mg + NAD 2000mg + Zinc 100-200mg
4) Methylation using Thorne Multi-Vitamin Elite
5) Thyroid hormone + Zinc + NAD

2) Case #2 is when your Potassium is low after quitting fin and you can take Estrogen which on the snap back, causes your Potassium to rise. And you feel terrible on Estrogen while doing it (here the possibility is pine pollen). Case 2 is a downregulation of Progesterone receptors with high Progesterone, low Estrogen, high Cortisol, high DHT.
Case #2 – antagonized/deactivated receptors
Symptoms: high Cortisol, low Estrogen, normal/high DHT, low Potassium
Protocols (these are not well-defined):
1) Copper 10mg ED; after 3 weeks add in Zinc + NAD + Magnesium + Manganese + B6
2) High-dose Manganese + co-factors
3) Estradiol + DHT
4) Andro + relora + licorice root
5) Pine pollen + relora + licorice root
6) Pine pollen + relora + nettle

 

[tanedout]

2) Case #2 is when your Potassium is low after quitting fin and you can take Estrogen which on the snap back, causes your Potassium to rise. And you feel terrible on Estrogen while doing it (here the possibility is pine pollen). Case 2 is a downregulation of Progesterone receptors with high Progesterone, low Estrogen, high Cortisol, high DHT.
Case #2 – antagonized/deactivated receptors
Symptoms: high Cortisol, low Estrogen, normal/high DHT, low Potassium
Protocols (these are not well-defined):
1) Copper 10mg ED; after 3 weeks add in Zinc + NAD + Magnesium + Manganese + B6
2) High-dose Manganese + co-factors
3) Estradiol + DHT
4) Andro + relora + licorice root
5) Pine pollen + relora + licorice root
6) Pine pollen + relora + nettle

Interesting looking at 4,5 and 6.

Taking tribulus some time ago I got terrible brain fog for a couple of days, then a bounce back of libido returning and generally feeling great for a few days. I couldn't repeat this when tried later times, but thinking back it may have been when I was getting through loads of green tea, so maybe

- green tea (DHT inhibitor) + tribulus (anti-prog)

Also with pine pollen, I got good results on the first use (not as good as the trib), but second time around the effect was poor - actually stopped getting morning wood etc. Again, looking back it may have been when I was drinking a ton of green tea first time, so would've been pine pollen + green tea that was effect. I need to do some more trials I think!

 

[freeflow]

2) Case #2 is when your Potassium is low after quitting fin and you can take Estrogen which on the snap back, causes your Potassium to rise. And you feel terrible on Estrogen while doing it (here the possibility is pine pollen). Case 2 is a downregulation of Progesterone receptors with high Progesterone, low Estrogen, high Cortisol, high DHT.
Case #2 – antagonized/deactivated receptors
Symptoms: high Cortisol, low Estrogen, normal/high DHT, low Potassium
Protocols (these are not well-defined):
1) Copper 10mg ED; after 3 weeks add in Zinc + NAD + Magnesium + Manganese + B6
2) High-dose Manganese + co-factors
3) Estradiol + DHT
4) Andro + relora + licorice root
5) Pine pollen + relora + licorice root
6) Pine pollen + relora + nettle

Interesting looking at 4,5 and 6.

Taking tribulus some time ago I got terrible brain fog for a couple of days, then a bounce back of libido returning and generally feeling great for a few days. I couldn't repeat this when tried later times, but thinking back it may have been when I was getting through loads of green tea, so maybe

- green tea (DHT inhibitor) + tribulus (anti-prog)

Also with pine pollen, I got good results on the first use (not as good as the trib), but second time around the effect was poor - actually stopped getting morning wood etc. Again, looking back it may have been when I was drinking a ton of green tea first time, so would've been pine pollen + green tea that was effect. I need to do some more trials I think!

Man you totally match my experience. I feel good on the first day i take tribulus or pine pollen and from the 2nd day if i keep taking them i lose erections, energy, i become weak etc. And i always have a snap back after i stop them, tribulus returns more of my personality, motivation and strength while pine pollen snaps back my libido. This improved state stays for some days then i crash with head pressure/brain fog, weakness etc then get back to normal pfs baseline. Last time i took tribulus with schisandra which is an estrogenic herb and the cycle was much more bearable while i was on tribulus.

Tribulus is an anti progestin but in my opinion its a dht booster too.
Im planning to take tribulus with a 5ar inhibitor for some days and with schisandra. Then waiting for the snap back and taking thorne multivitamin extra trying to stick to the results. If i could keep my results of each snap back i would be cured after 3-4 cycles.

 

[Jaxx]

Interestingly, on propeciahelp.com they are aware of (these?) RU trials, and warn against it
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11778

 

[wuf]

Interestingly, on propeciahelp.com they are aware of (these?) RU trials, and warn against it
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11778

Why that guy claims RU is an antiandrogen?

 

[Shadow]

Interestingly, on propeciahelp.com they are aware of (these?) RU trials, and warn against it
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11778

Why that guy claims RU is an antiandrogen?

Because RU is a weak antagonist of AR.

It is a steroidal antiprogestogen (IC50 = 0.025 nM for the PR), as well as an antiglucocorticoid (IC50 = 2.2 nM for the GR) and antiandrogen (IC50 = 10 nM for the AR) to a much lesser extent.[30] It antagonizes cortisol action competitively at the receptor level.

 

[barbaar]

According to Wikipedia Ella has no relevant affinity to androgen receptors. Not sure if he's confused and thinks Ella is the same as RU but at least that part is incorrect.

 

[tanedout]

Man you totally match my experience. I feel good on the first day i take tribulus or pine pollen and from the 2nd day if i keep taking them i lose erections, energy, i become weak etc. And i always have a snap back after i stop them, tribulus returns more of my personality, motivation and strength while pine pollen snaps back my libido.

Were you taking any other sups when this occurred? The only other thing that has resulted in a snap-back for me is grape seed extract. Took a fair bit over a day or two, and this resulted in a return of libido & sensitivity for a couple of days.

Again, I couldn't repeat this, but again I'm now thinking back to whether I was drinking loads of green tea at the time.

I'm going to get some green tea tomorrow after getting a load of bloods done, and do some tests to see if I can repeat any of these snap backs! All makes a lot more sense now after reading these new theories from Gbol

 

[TubZy]

Interestingly, on propeciahelp.com they are aware of (these?) RU trials, and warn against it
http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11778

The guy who made that thread is still decades behind and doesn't even realize what he is talking about, he is still on the "increase AR" trend, good luck to him, that strategy has almost been talked about for the last ten years..

 

[aztec]

That dude also believes TRT is the answer which is completely false and a disaster. That forum is full of guys who did TRT and had awful outcomes.

 

[IHateFin]

i was reading how saw plametto causes PFS since they are both similar drugs in terms of potency and the basics is that they bind to the progesterone receptor and reduce both estrogen and dht. maybe this is what trains the body to work in a way where dht stays low now that the body has been forced to regulate estrogen with progesterone. this is an idea that isnt new and Gbolduev has stated this himself; however, what if the cure is as simple as reducing prog and increasing estrogen AND increasing dht.

ru will lower prog and will increase esrogen since it will upregulate the receptors in the absence of progesterone; however, since ru is also slightly antiandrogen its not guarenteed that DHT will be increased and triggered as the body's main estrogen opposition once again.

i believe that maybe for most PFS cases that if we can lower prog with a SUPER low dose of ru say 10mg, increase estrogen with maybe some licorice AND activate our own dht production through boron, trib, creatine and LCarnatine we can cure this.

this is probably why when taking exogenous DHT + estrogen will alleviate all pfs sides. only issue is they wont stick since its not your body producing these hormones and once the hormones are withdrawn all the benefits go with it.

CDnuts protocol cycles through different herbs that can raise hormones including estrogens so maybe if we can get the right mix of antiprog (which alone will increase estrogen), pro estrogen and pro DHT then maybe that is all that we need to cure this.

saw plametto binds to prog and lowers estrogen and dht so surely doing the exact opposite of this will cure the syndrome.

maybe the reason why RU has yet to fully cure us is because it fixes prog, estrogen and cort but doesnt necessarily always increase DHT since it is a weak anti-androgen. although we have yet to experiment with doses in the range of 10mg so maybe a dose like this can be enough to kill prog whcih will increase estrogen indirectly and allow androgens to rein unopposed.

i know this seems too simple to be the cure, but maybe it is this simple, but there is no ONE drug that can increase estrogen, decrease prog AND upregulate DHT.

all studies on ru486 do show that it increases androgens and adrenal androgens, but those are in bodies that dont have PFS and receptor issues or bodies that fight estrogen with the incorrect hormone. this is a lot to ponder, but im thinking that my next cycle (which would be early 2018) would be 10mg of ru (which IS enough to reduce prog significanly according to literature), some licorice and Boron, Lcarnatine and creatine. heck maybe the licorice wouldnt even be needed since the prog reduction alone will be enough to increase estrogen and estrogen receptor sensativity. i just need some true DHT boosters in there and after speaking with [mention]jacknap[/mention] i believe Boron and LCarnatine are a must and i personally like creatine for its increase in DHT as well.

what do you guys think of this? seems like a solid theory on paper, but we just need to put it in practice. RU486 works so well cuz it address EVERYTHING except for androgens since it is an antoandrogen. without this trait it could be the finasteride cure that could literally be as easy as popping a pill.

 

[jacknap]

why not use RU with RAndro?

 

[expendable]

i was reading how saw plametto causes PFS since they are both similar drugs in terms of potency and the basics is that they bind to the progesterone receptor and reduce both estrogen and dht. maybe this is what trains the body to work in a way where dht stays low now that the body has been forced to regulate estrogen with progesterone. this is an idea that isnt new and Gbolduev has stated this himself; however, what if the cure is as simple as reducing prog and increasing estrogen AND increasing dht.

ru will lower prog and will increase esrogen since it will upregulate the receptors in the absence of progesterone; however, since ru is also slightly antiandrogen its not guarenteed that DHT will be increased and triggered as the body's main estrogen opposition once again.

i believe that maybe for most PFS cases that if we can lower prog with a SUPER low dose of ru say 10mg, increase estrogen with maybe some licorice AND activate our own dht production through boron, trib, creatine and LCarnatine we can cure this.

this is probably why when taking exogenous DHT + estrogen will alleviate all pfs sides. only issue is they wont stick since its not your body producing these hormones and once the hormones are withdrawn all the benefits go with it.

CDnuts protocol cycles through different herbs that can raise hormones including estrogens so maybe if we can get the right mix of antiprog (which alone will increase estrogen), pro estrogen and pro DHT then maybe that is all that we need to cure this.

saw plametto binds to prog and lowers estrogen and dht so surely doing the exact opposite of this will cure the syndrome.

maybe the reason why RU has yet to fully cure us is because it fixes prog, estrogen and cort but doesnt necessarily always increase DHT since it is a weak anti-androgen. although we have yet to experiment with doses in the range of 10mg so maybe a dose like this can be enough to kill prog whcih will increase estrogen indirectly and allow androgens to rein unopposed.

i know this seems too simple to be the cure, but maybe it is this simple, but there is no ONE drug that can increase estrogen, decrease prog AND upregulate DHT.

all studies on ru486 do show that it increases androgens and adrenal androgens, but those are in bodies that dont have PFS and receptor issues or bodies that fight estrogen with the incorrect hormone. this is a lot to ponder, but im thinking that my next cycle (which would be early 2018) would be 10mg of ru (which IS enough to reduce prog significanly according to literature), some licorice and Boron, Lcarnatine and creatine. heck maybe the licorice wouldnt even be needed since the prog reduction alone will be enough to increase estrogen and estrogen receptor sensativity. i just need some true DHT boosters in there and after speaking with @jacknap i believe Boron and LCarnatine are a must and i personally like creatine for its increase in DHT as well.

what do you guys think of this? seems like a solid theory on paper, but we just need to put it in practice. RU486 works so well cuz it address EVERYTHING except for androgens since it is an antoandrogen. without this trait it could be the finasteride cure that could literally be as easy as popping a pill.

Wow. Literally just read the first paragraph and thought to myself "ok, just take ru/ella, licorice root, and creatine." Really may be on to something with this stuff. I'm biased to ella though, myself :lol: But for real, this is really close. I actually have some boron arriving in the mail that I ordered a few days ago for some reason :lol: :lol: What a coincidence! And I have creatine and of course licorice root lying around. I can order ella again too. Gonna wait a while though first, like I've said, to see if there's any improvement.

WE GOT THIS

 

[jacknap]

also herbal route combo might be tribulus (lowers prog) + schizandra (ups estrogen) + boron (ups test/dht) (I've been doing this and I'm not cured yet but with the right supplementation I'm like 80% now. Coming from fucking hell.

 

[IHateFin]

why not use RU with RAndro?

this could work too! only reason i didnt mention it is since i wanted to figure out a way to increase dht without exogenous hormones.
at 10mg of ru486 with Randro could work, but i feel like that could be hit or miss especially since Randro has its own snap back that of which i dont completely understand.

 

[IHateFin]

also herbal route combo might be tribulus (lowers prog) + schizandra (ups estrogen) + boron (ups test/dht) (I've been doing this and I'm not cured yet but with the right supplementation I'm like 80% now. Coming from fucking hell.

true, but tribulous is nowhere near as potent as an antiprogesterone. so maybe you have everything needed together, but are just missing something stronger to kill your prog. estrogen will not upregulate with slight prog reduction. i believe that it needs to be completely blocked. this is why taking RU486 can cause Gyno due to estrogen upregulation and taking tribulous will not cause this.

 

[jacknap]

one guy on solvepfs cured himself through methyliation... perhaps we all get a 23 and me or one of the better ones to see which pathways are fucked up.

gbold talks a lot about how zinc/copper etc. can change personality. was listening to a podcast today bulletproof exec and the guy was saying that sociopaths often have zinc deficiency and by fixing the methylation they actually put the sociopathy in remission...

 

[jacknap]

also dudes. I have an appointment with Dr. Keith Jarvi in November. He''s the head researcher in Toronto for PFS. if you guys have anything you think I should ask him or point him to feel free to give me some ideas...

 

[IHateFin]

i was reading how saw plametto causes PFS since they are both similar drugs in terms of potency and the basics is that they bind to the progesterone receptor and reduce both estrogen and dht. maybe this is what trains the body to work in a way where dht stays low now that the body has been forced to regulate estrogen with progesterone. this is an idea that isnt new and Gbolduev has stated this himself; however, what if the cure is as simple as reducing prog and increasing estrogen AND increasing dht.

ru will lower prog and will increase esrogen since it will upregulate the receptors in the absence of progesterone; however, since ru is also slightly antiandrogen its not guarenteed that DHT will be increased and triggered as the body's main estrogen opposition once again.

i believe that maybe for most PFS cases that if we can lower prog with a SUPER low dose of ru say 10mg, increase estrogen with maybe some licorice AND activate our own dht production through boron, trib, creatine and LCarnatine we can cure this.

this is probably why when taking exogenous DHT + estrogen will alleviate all pfs sides. only issue is they wont stick since its not your body producing these hormones and once the hormones are withdrawn all the benefits go with it.

CDnuts protocol cycles through different herbs that can raise hormones including estrogens so maybe if we can get the right mix of antiprog (which alone will increase estrogen), pro estrogen and pro DHT then maybe that is all that we need to cure this.

saw plametto binds to prog and lowers estrogen and dht so surely doing the exact opposite of this will cure the syndrome.

maybe the reason why RU has yet to fully cure us is because it fixes prog, estrogen and cort but doesnt necessarily always increase DHT since it is a weak anti-androgen. although we have yet to experiment with doses in the range of 10mg so maybe a dose like this can be enough to kill prog whcih will increase estrogen indirectly and allow androgens to rein unopposed.

i know this seems too simple to be the cure, but maybe it is this simple, but there is no ONE drug that can increase estrogen, decrease prog AND upregulate DHT.

all studies on ru486 do show that it increases androgens and adrenal androgens, but those are in bodies that dont have PFS and receptor issues or bodies that fight estrogen with the incorrect hormone. this is a lot to ponder, but im thinking that my next cycle (which would be early 2018) would be 10mg of ru (which IS enough to reduce prog significanly according to literature), some licorice and Boron, Lcarnatine and creatine. heck maybe the licorice wouldnt even be needed since the prog reduction alone will be enough to increase estrogen and estrogen receptor sensativity. i just need some true DHT boosters in there and after speaking with @jacknap i believe Boron and LCarnatine are a must and i personally like creatine for its increase in DHT as well.

what do you guys think of this? seems like a solid theory on paper, but we just need to put it in practice. RU486 works so well cuz it address EVERYTHING except for androgens since it is an antoandrogen. without this trait it could be the finasteride cure that could literally be as easy as popping a pill.

Wow. Literally just read the first paragraph and thought to myself "ok, just take ru/ella, licorice root, and creatine." Really may be on to something with this stuff. I'm biased to ella though, myself :lol: But for real, this is really close. I actually have some boron arriving in the mail that I ordered a few days ago for some reason :lol: :lol: What a coincidence! And I have creatine and of course licorice root lying around. I can order ella again too. Gonna wait a while though first, like I've said, to see if there's any improvement.

WE GOT THIS

heck yeah, man!! we are all on to something and i think as a forum are truely making some serious headway.
looks like you have pretty much all that i have outlined except for the ru486. ella may work in its place, but i dont much about ella nor do we have as many ppl whom have tried it on this forum the way we do for ru486.

ru i do know is a MUCH stronger antiprog than ella is.

 

[Aleksandr]

If there is one constant problem I am seeing with many people attempting these "protocols" it is the lack of consistency and discipline. Think of yourself like a scientific experiment. You can't be screwing things up by taking a bunch of different supps at random times while also taking the primary drug (Ella, RU, whatever), or before and after. Things interact in unknown and unreliable ways.

If you guys want results that other people can actually put into use, this needs to be done more systematically. If you are going to try something like Ella/RU you need to do a proper washout before and after - take a few weeks of no supps, eating normally, etc. before jumping into it.

I organize and run studies for a living, you guys would be nightmare participants for me. You would seriously ruin my research haha.

If you all want to do this more systematically I can help by creating questionnaires to understand symptoms/lifestyle/diet/etc, and if you agree on protocols/meds to try out, we can create documents for people to follow with recommended before/after blood tests. I can make all this stuff so it can be followed easily and evaluated properly.

I guess this ultimately comes down to one thing - do you want your successes and failures to have the best chance of helping others or not? I completely understand wanting to just fix yourself in the shortest amount of time possible. So it is up to you. I don't have any PFS problems or anything, but I think patient-led research like this is the future, and I am willing to help make it happen. I think what's being done here has a ton of potential.

Hey MattyB i'm completely on board with this. Currently taking zinc and manganese, while lathering myself in magnesium oil.

I've been reading about licorice root and considering taking that too. So far on the current plan i'm feeling really tired (but everyone in my house just got sick with a flu-like thing, i'm the exception with no sniffling etc, but i do have fatigue).

How can i be more scientific about this? I'd really like a questionnaire etc and i will run licorice root. I'm case 2 with low cell potassum and high sodium.