RebelWithACause

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The fact that you have near 100% days means your approaching the finish line and are likely doing the right things, though. Guys who have recovered just stayed consistent when they found themselves in the spot you're at right now and eventually the bad days are fewer and farther in between until they're cured. In hindsight, do you think that running test for awhile helped sensitize receptors so that you felt better when you recovered from suppression, or do you still think it did more harm than good?

I think it made me better. I have days on higher baseline now then before running the testosterone. But I got better after quitting it without PCT. Maybe because I had lower T for a while it helped. Not sure man. I would not run it again I think.
 

Helen

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The fact that you have near 100% days means you're approaching the finish line and are likely doing the right things, though. Guys who have recovered just stayed consistent when they found themselves in the spot you're at right now and eventually the bad days are fewer and farther in between until they're cured. In hindsight, do you think that running test for awhile helped sensitize receptors so that you felt better when you recovered from suppression, or do you still think it did more harm than good?

when LH goes down from testosterone . it will never be overexpression of AR. Since potassium is down )) why would the body upregulate anabolism it wants to kill it.

It waits until progesterone restores potassium and then increases LH )) So PCT is magnesium and potassium, or zinc and magnesium. No need to ever do clomids etc.

That is what he did, right away.

testosterone increases anabolism and makes progesterone sensitive, since progesterone increases catabolism. testosterone can only downregulate the AR. expression unless it is given to a zero steroids levels person. like the do in many studies.


I inhbited 5AR recently on purpose. this should overexpress the receptors. of AR> and this caused the crash after I came off.


Same thing is with RU58841 which blocks the AR receptor, making it sensitive and then you crash the same way as from FInasteride. when you come off.

Althought ru58841 does noting to 5 alpha reductase. it is a receptor blocker.




Since RU58841 causes the same crash as FIN. and RU58841does not do anything with 5alpha reductase, it just blocks the AR receptor. So the overexpression of AR seems to be a problem in those cases.

Basically overexpression of AR stops 5AR when you come off Ru58841, and this causes high progesterone, which blocks aldo and cortisol. and blocks conversion of progesterone to allo.

Which causes invalid stress response and POIS.


As I mentioned before, we have 2 cases here, in one case overxpression of the AR is the whole problem, which causes neurosteroids suppression and in another case overexpression is the stilt

In case where overexperssion is a stilt , anything that increases DHT or AR helps the situation to feel better. But does not fix the underlying problem.



It is funny how some people say that DHT increases expression of AR. Where they are gazzillion studies which show that when you kill 5AR and lower levels of DHT, this increases expression of AR. And obviously when you increase DHT , that will decrease the expression of AR.


It could be of course that in some cases AR is downregulated. but that was not the case in all those studies which came out recently, although they tested quiet a bit of people. May be of course all those people were just one case.
 
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Helen

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I think it made me better. I have days on higher baseline now then before running the testosterone. But I got better after quitting it without PCT. Maybe because I had lower T for a while it helped. Not sure man. I would not run it again I think.


You are taking Creatine right now, which effects all these systems.

If you have insensitive progesterone, taking creatine will cause POIS since it pushes 5AR. and this causes lower progesterone.

When you get off creatine, I think you will feel better than before.

Creatine by lowering potassium lowers cortisol and increases adrenaline. and you might have sleep problems.


Get off Creatine , wait for a week. and I am sure you wont have POIS.

I think cycling creatine in your case could be good. but it will cause POIS when you are on it.
 
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RebelWithACause

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You are taking Creatine right now, which effects all these systems.

If you have insensitive progesterone, taking creatine will cause POIS since it pushes 5AR. and this causes lower progesterone.

When you get off creatine, I think you will feel better than before.

Creatine by lowering potassium lowers cortisol and increases adrenaline. and you might have sleep problems.


Get off Creatine , wait for a week. and I am sure you wont have POIS.

I think cycling creatine in your case could be good. but it will cause POIS when you are on it.

Explains a lot. Thanks man. I remember I had POIS before when I started NoFap. In that time I was also on creatine!

Creatine does have benefits for me though like: increased strength, increased cognitive ability

I think I will cycle it. If I do not sleep good tonight I will immediately quit it instead of doing it another 1-2 weeks.
 
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Helen

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Explains a lot. Thanks man. I remember I had POIS before when I started NoFap. In that time I was also on creatine!

Creatine does have benefits for me though like: increased strength, increased cognitive ability

I think I will cycle it. If I do not sleep good tonight I will immediately quit it instead of doing it another 1-2 weeks.


Just see if this is a reason for your POIS. Since recently pre Creatine, you seemed to have good energy and no POIS. So lets see if Creatine is causing this.

This is actually good if we figure out this in your case. Since in that case we will know for sure that you are missing metabolism. not anaboilc side


As I said before. even if people recover from PFS, they still start fucking around with supplements and other things, drugs hormones and it is a huge chance they will get fucked up again.

Since they will try to do things that make them feel better. And things that make you feel better, usually cause the opposite reaction when you come off.

this is why for me personally, if I have some symptom, I usually look for something that makes that symptom worse. and I take that substance.

And when I get off of it, that symptoms gets better than before.


but people do the opposite, they take things that make them better. that is called substitution. So lets say if you have insensitive cortisol, people take cortisol and feel better, but then they need more more more and more of it.

So eventually a person who does substitution approach ends up taking like 20 supplements. since he created more and more imbalances taking different stuff.


I think supplements industry, supplements, hormones, all kinds of stuff, is what causes most of current diseases in humans.

People have a headache, they take tylenol. they have temperature , they take some stuff against it.

They oversex, they take things to increase sex drive. When they need to slow down. not increase it.

It is basically drug addicts, no different. People seem to not be able to live without supps, or altering stuff.


this is why the only religion that makes sense for me is Daoism. meaning that everything has to be in moderation. Moderation in everything means balance= the most maxium strength

But peopel are not like that, they have ego. And they thing by taking something they can be better than other people. But it is false. taking something will unbalance a person and always make him weaker than the balanced person

Of course if you take something that makes you balanced, you will be stronger. but since people take dosages of stuff which are huge always, like over RDA . This will never happen,. they always overshoot to another side.

Like test. if someone takes testosterone 30mg , that would balance that person out, with zero suppression. if that person has lower levels of testosterone

but people take like 500mg a week)) and this causes you to be not in balance anymore, you get weak and imbalanced. And you get even run 100 meters without breathing heavy ))

Like if someone needs zinc lets say , a person goes ahead and take 25mg , that is many time over RDA. and you need to take a dose way less than RDA .

Like 1 mg, or 2mg. to balance yourself out. And obviously that zinc causes bad effects for a person and person quits zinc, and think he does not need it, although he did need it only in dose of 1 mg a day , to be balanced with copper,


that person spents 1 mg a day more of zinc than copper, lets say , and 1 mg of zinc balances him out, but 25 mg of zinc fuckes him

And this is basically in everything in every supplement. SO supplement industry is evil
 
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RebelWithACause

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Just see if this is a reason for your POIS. Since recently pre Creatine, you seemed to have good energy and no POIS. So lets see if Creatine is causing this.

This is actually good if we figure out this in your case. Since in that case we will know for sure that you are missing metabolism. not anaboilc side

Yes it is a good experiment. I will get off in a week or so. See how it affects me.

I feel flat emotionally and more aggressive than before the creatine. This could be the adrenaline. Or higher DHT. People seem to be scared of me sometimes. And some people are aggressive towards me for no reason. Which is not always a good thing. I think I am acting aggressive in my body language. Staring people I do not know down, etc. I used to do this when I was 21/22 when I was also on creatine. And I thought it was my personality. But I did not do this before creatine. LOL sounds like broscience but I am certain.

Erection quality went down. Some days it is better and I am hornier. Other days it feels like stim dick, like yesterday. (high adrenaline, again?). With stimulation I am able to get it up and it is hard. But no random hard boners. Most of it half erections (chubs) when I am attracted to a girl.
 

RebelWithACause

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2,613
Just see if this is a reason for your POIS. Since recently pre Creatine, you seemed to have good energy and no POIS. So lets see if Creatine is causing this.

This is actually good if we figure out this in your case. Since in that case we will know for sure that you are missing metabolism. not anaboilc side


As I said before. even if people recover from PFS, they still start fucking around with supplements and other things, drugs hormones and it is a huge chance they will get fucked up again.

Since they will try to do things that make them feel better. And things that make you feel better, usually cause the opposite reaction when you come off.

this is why for me personally, if I have some symptom, I usually look for something that makes that symptom worse. and I take that substance.

And when I get off of it, that symptoms gets better than before.


but people do the opposite, they take things that make them better. that is called substitution. So lets say if you have insensitive cortisol, people take cortisol and feel better, but then they need more more more and more of it.

So eventually a person who does substitution approach ends up taking like 20 supplements. since he created more and more imbalances taking different stuff.


I think supplements industry, supplements, hormones, all kinds of stuff, is what causes most of current diseases in humans.

People have a headache, they take tylenol. they have temperature , they take some stuff against it.

They oversex, they take things to increase sex drive. When they need to slow down. not increase it.

It is basically drug addicts, no different. People seem to not be able to live without supps, or altering stuff.


this is why the only religion that makes sense for me is Daoism. meaning that everything has to be in moderation. Moderation in everything means balance= the most maxium strength

But peopel are not like that, they have ego. And they thing by taking something they can be better than other people. But it is false. taking something will unbalance a person and always make him weaker than the balanced person

Of course if you take something that makes you balanced, you will be stronger. but since people take dosages of stuff which are huge always, like over RDA . This will never happen,. they always overshoot to another side.

Like test. if someone takes testosterone 30mg , that would balance that person out, with zero suppression. if that person has lower levels of testosterone

but people take like 500mg a week)) and this causes you to be not in balance anymore, you get weak and imbalanced. And you get even run 100 meters without breathing heavy ))

Like if someone needs zinc lets say , a person goes ahead and take 25mg , that is many time over RDA. and you need to take a dose way less than RDA .

Like 1 mg, or 2mg. to balance yourself out. And obviously that zinc causes bad effects for a person and person quits zinc, and think he does not need it, although he did need it only in dose of 1 mg a day , to be balanced with copper,


that person spents 1 mg a day more of zinc than copper, lets say , and 1 mg of zinc balances him out, but 25 mg of zinc fuckes him

And this is basically in everything in every supplement. SO supplement industry is evil

Yea I agree.

Another problem is we eat weird diet now. When you cook food for example you lose a lot of nutrients (like creatine, taurine) so in nature you would get these in good amounts. Now people get close to zero. A lot of people eat almost zero nutrients in a day. Just bread (modern bread is full with PUFA, weird shit in it) a little bit of protein and that is it.

I think creatine is relatively safe. Especially because like I said normally you would get good amount in food. Of course I am taking way more than any "natural human being" would get. Normally you would get 1-3 grams probably. I take 5-10 grams. But it does affect me mentally. And I am not sure if it is good for me. So just making this an experiment.
 

RebelWithACause

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OK I ordered TEI hairtest. I need to do something to get more stable. I want to see where I am at with the mineral levels.
 
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barbaar

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Yes I got that from @Admiral

Cool, I ordered one there last week. I also contacted them beforehand to ask if they modify the program/supplements at all, this is their reply:

De haartest (www.haartest.nl) die wij verkopen wordt inderdaad uitgevoerd door Trace Elements in Amerika. Wij sturen de haarmonsters door naar Trace Elements waarna wij de testresultaten inclusief voedings- en supplementenadvies ontvangen. Dit verwerken wij tot een rapport. Een voorbeeldrapport heb ik bijgevoegd zodat je kunt zien wat je ervan kunt verwachten.

De supplementen die wij adviseren en verkopen zijn grotendeels de originele supplementen van Trace Elements. Wanneer er Enzyma, Digesta of Clean Fulvic geadviseerd wordt, zijn dat onze producten. De overige mineralen die geadviseerd kunnen worden zijn van Trace Elements.



Met vriendelijke groet / Best Regards,

Translated for our non dutch speaking friends:

The hair test (www.haartest.nl) we sell is indeed done by Trace Elements in the US. We send the hair samples to them after which we receive the test results including diet- and supplement advice. We create a report from this. I have attached an example report so you know what to expect.

The supplements we advise and sell are largely the original TEI supplements. When Enzyma, Digesta or Clean Fulvic are advised, those are our products. All other minerals that are advised are TEI.

The example report file they sent me is too large to be uploaded to the forum but it's basically the standard TEI graphs and explanations with some diet, lifestyle and supplement advice.
 

RebelWithACause

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Cool, I ordered one there last week. I also contacted them beforehand to ask if they modify the program/supplements at all, this is their reply:



Translated for our non dutch speaking friends:



The example report file they sent me is too large to be uploaded to the forum but it's basically the standard TEI graphs and explanations with some diet, lifestyle and supplement advice.

Thanks for the information man. Looks good to me.
 

RebelWithACause

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So next week I will hopefully receive TEI test.

I am close to hitting my old gym numbers. Yesterday I missed 180kg deadlift but I think in 2 weeks I can hit it. I did not sleep at all night before this attempt. So I think with good sleep I can hit it most likely. With good form. I used to do deadlifts with shit form, just rip it off the ground. Now I rebuilt it with good form. Olympic squats are also going good.

Goal now is to stabilise my health. More balanced. Also for strength and gym purposes and feel good in life and become best version of myself. Without drugs, etc. Last time I had high mercury on hair test so let's see. I used to eat a lot of canned tuna.

Yesterday and today I feel good again. So it is after orgasm I feel crappy for 2-3 days. Then I am normal again like nothing happened. Sounds like mild POIS to me. 2-3 days is not much but it does suck when you have to be at your best in those 2-3 days.

Normal plain jane girls look attractive again when I do not have POIS symptoms. There is sexual tension between me and some girls. Like the cashier. Or random girl on the train. You can feel the sexual energy. Flirting, etc. So this is good.

Since 2-3 days I also feel emotion like happy to be alive. A positive energy. Not a hateful look on humans. For a while I was angry all the time. Aggressive. Now all of a sudden it is gone and positive/calmness have replaced it.

Someone made picture of me and sent me them to me and I look pretty good in them. For a while I looked like I was dying or something. My face looks healthy again. Very little dark circles around my eye. Healthy color. For a while I looked sickly and dead eyes. Now my skin glows a bit and my eyes have fire in them.

So overall I am in a positive spiral up. I do think so. Sometimes you get hit a bit and fall back a few percentage. And then you get back to normal again.
 
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RebelWithACause

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Notice my sex drive comes back fast after an orgasm. Which is good sign. Even faster then before I took finasteride. Before finasteride after orgasm I would feel shit for 4-5 days. Now I have one day of feeling tired. Then another 1 day of feeling OK. Then third day I feel good and back to normal. Seems like prolactin lowers quicker. In PFS I would not have sex drive until I would abstain for 2 weeks.

Only thing that has not recovered to 100% is my erections. I have good stable erections is after 4-5 days of abstaining. I am not sure what causes this problem. Maybe my pelvic floor muscle became weaker on finasteride? Or it is a lasting side of PFS. Not sure.

Also going to eat more precursors to nitric oxide to help the erection department.

This week I hope to receive hair test kit and then I will focus on balancing body for a while.
 
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RebelWithACause

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Going to do the carnivore diet again for a week or two weeks, maybe a month to see if I can get rid of small psoriasis spot on elbow.

Last time it also worked to fix skin issues. It is kind of like fasting but without eating your own muscle/fat.

It also seems to reset my carbohydrate tolerance.
 
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Helen

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Going to do the carnivore diet again for a week or two weeks, maybe a month to see if I can get rid of small psoriasis spot on elbow.

Last time it also worked to fix skin issues. It is kind of like fasting but without eating your own muscle/fat.

It also seems to reset my carbohydrate tolerance.


it did work for me to increase phosphorus. against psoriasis.
 

RebelWithACause

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it did work for me to increase phosphorus. against psoriasis.

I got this psoriasis when I went on anabolic steroids. BOTH TIMES. Complete elbow and arm. Both times it went away after quitting it. But I still have a small spot on the arm. Any clue what caused this?

My body has always been little bitch with skin. Had skin issues as a kid too. When something is a bit wrong my skin goes to shit.

Meat contains high amount of phosphorus right. Maybe this is why it helped.

Anyways this is first day without carbohydrates. My body adapts pretty quickly. Last time I also had this. Do not have low carb tiredness. I will do this diet until I do not feel good anymore. Which is most of the time 2 weeks. Maybe I can do it longer now.
 
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MNK99

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@RebelWithACause This may seem obvious, Have you tried swimming, bathing, eating, fasting, and living in the ocean (no sarcasm)?