Sexual arousal by dominance and submission in relation to increased reproductive success in the general population.

[RebelWithACause]

Maybe it's different in The Netherlands, but the US is still very much a male-dominated society. Men get paid more, respected more, have more power, etc. For that reason, any gender-based "affirmative action" is definitely warranted over here, but I think that when some men see that they get angry because they're so accustomed to having the bias in their favor, and any counter balancing feels like a threat.

Well The Red Pill and MGTOW started in USA. I do not think for no reason. Most guys I have spoken to in red pill circles say that USA is absolutely feminism. You almost got a woman as a president. That never happened in all of history.

In order to effect this reality men must be convinced of a degree of more control than the feminine imperative exerts. They must believe that it is they who are the masters of a reality defined by the feminine, while remaining dependent upon the systems that the feminine reality outlines for them. So they are told they are Kings, brutes, savages, patricians, intellectuals, anything that might convince them that the reality they exist in is privileged and expressly serves their purpose. Already the ‘protected sex’, this all encourages the default presumption of victimhood for the feminine.

The crowning irony of the feminine reality is that men should be accused of patriarchy while enabling the very framework of the feminine imperative. The feminine sexual strategy is victorious because even under the contrived auspices of male oppression, it’s still the female goal-state that is agreed upon as the correct effort. Satisfying the feminine imperative, achieving the ends of the feminine sexual strategy is still the normative condition. Men’s goals are aberrant, women’s are beatific.

I think this quote says exactly how it is. I would recommend reading Rational Male, especially on the feminine imperative/reality. Describes what I have been thinking a big portion of my life.

The Feminine Reality

Remember women are covert. They use covert strategies. Machiavellian. This is exactly machiavellian strategy. Make men think they are in control. But if you REALLY look at reality is it women who are in control. Not men. Laws protect women. White knights protect women. Men are disposable.

If I was a woman I would support feminism. This is sexual warfare at play. I do not hate women for doing this. Both men and women want their sexual strategy optimised.

 

[Niles]

I only date girls who are pleasant to be around. This is on grand scale. Meta.

This is a hypothesis/filter of reality to what is happening in modern day society and why a lot of men are frustrated.

There is a reason why MGTOW is big. There is a reason why The Red Pill is big. Because it would not be there if men were not experiencing issues.

There is a reason why people try to shame these movements and try to frame them as "angry, frustrated men".

This might not be your experience. But I have seen it around me too many times to ignore it.

Look, maybe I was brought up as a "provider for everybody" A.K.A. a beta. It took me long time to realise why I kept failing with women in my late teens/early twenties. Maybe you are raised more traditionally. I do not know.

After you start seeing how you get brainwashed from young age with Disney and how my own dad was supplicating to my mom all the time.

Role reversals in movies (logical, intelligent woman with a dumb, emotional guy).

Men getting fucked over with divorce.

Women pushed in workplaces.

Men getting cucked - raising other man's child.

Girls dumping you when you are a "nice guy".

Maybe this is cognitive bias. Maybe not. I think this "filter of reality" shows reality much better then my old filter of "women are angels, I need to protect them".

Hmm, maybe I'm just blind to these phenomena lol. I do think there is a shift taking place in the west where the power balance between women and men is finally starting to resemble some of sort of equality, but that power equality is at odds with the traditional "Disney princess" view of women you mention. The female (princess/damsel) is a pretty object, something to behold or aquire, but not respect. She is dumb and powerless, so the man has to be the savior and provider. However, once women acquire equal societal respect and power as the man, this preferential treatment no longer makes sense because the women can protect and provide for themselves. We're in an awkward transition I think.

An example of this dissonance would be a woman who vocally shuns gender roles, but also feels entitled to a man's resources because it is the man's duty to provide. I've never experienced or been close to a woman like this, but it sounds like the stereotype you describe.

 

[MNK99]

I just say: Fuck everyone. (as in disregard everything, except whatever it is that inspires, motivates, drives you, whoever you are).
Accept what cannot be changed, change what needs to be done, and hell sometimes move.

Mexico
Montreal
Calgary
etc.. England... etc -- laid just like that when I want. NOT as an insecure 16-18yr old for sure. (and no not bc pfs made me stronger, some was in pfs, most before and after effexor).

My city? Harder for sure. Esp being darker skinned. Easily would have banged girls, lying about race. Or income... or one small white lie here or there, mostly, I care more about respect than being loved or getting laid.

ANd I battled fat white feminists in soci classes that never worked a day ever, who assumed I had white male privelige., lol my ppl came here with 8 dollars, and if they are rich, they earned it.

Not enciting race war, believe me... mostly don't like anyone. I do like pretty girls and some of my male friends. WIll change as time goes on.

AND most personal effectual work is done alone, for ppl like me. EVERYONE? NO, I cannot say (nor generalize).
A lot of us are saying 30-80% the same thing, with differences motivated by differing worldviews, experiences, and surrounding people, and probably levels of resourcefulness (which can always change). I probably had zero resourcefulness after effexor and during PFS crash, but changes again.

-Cog biases too like RWAC says below.
-REading people.... Like attracts like, ... so I attract others who like me change their style up all the time.
-And: Also, some people just can't trust others.... and so they won't even tell someone exactly what they do, until: marriage. And even then, everyone has secrets. A lot at lst.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Hmm, maybe I'm just blind to these phenomena lol. I do think there is a shift taking place in the west where the power balance between women and men is finally starting to resemble some of sort of equality, but that power equality is at odds with the traditional "Disney princess" view of women you mention. The female (princess/damsel) is a pretty object, something to behold or aquire, but not respect. She is dumb and powerless, so the man has to be the savior and provider. However, once women acquire equal societal respect and power as the man, this preferential treatment no longer makes sense. We're in an awkward transition I think.

I do not know. I think cognitive bias is strong. I could be extremely biased and see everything as evidence for my worldview. Just like you can.

But still it is an interesting thought. I do think my worldview is closer to reality than most people. But we all like to think that.

But women are not equal. Equalism is impossible. Because we are different. We just are. Men are more dominant. Men are better at being leaders. I am sorry to burst feminists bubble but it is the truth. Women cannot be good soldiers. Look at that woman who started crying in the army. They use smaller assault rifle in US army because they let women join.

My female boss cannot tell me shit. She does not dare to. I notice this. She might wear a suite and act like a man. When it is face to face she is still submissive to me. Automatically. I see this in her body language.

People need to stop saying men and women are equal. The only reason we are equal is because we are forced to. Not because it is natural.

Women overall do not like to be dominant from my experience. It is unnatural for most women. There are some dominant women out there. Most of them look very masculine and unattractive.

So the want for equalism is annoying to both parties.

 

[raven]

I only date girls who are pleasant to be around. This is on grand scale. Meta.

This is a hypothesis/filter of reality to what is happening in modern day society and why a lot of men are frustrated.

There is a reason why MGTOW is big. There is a reason why The Red Pill is big. Because it would not be there if men were not experiencing issues.

There is a reason why people try to shame these movements and try to frame them as "angry, frustrated men".

This might not be your experience. But I have seen it around me too many times to ignore it.

Look, maybe I was brought up as a "provider for everybody" A.K.A. a beta. It took me long time to realise why I kept failing with women in my late teens/early twenties. Maybe you are raised more traditionally. I do not know.

After you start seeing how you get brainwashed from young age with Disney and how my own dad was supplicating to my mom all the time.

Role reversals in movies (logical, intelligent woman with a dumb, emotional guy).

Men getting fucked over with divorce.

Women pushed in workplaces.

Men getting cucked - raising other man's child.

Girls dumping you when you are a "nice guy".

Maybe this is cognitive bias. Maybe not. I think this "filter of reality" shows reality much better then my old filter of "women are angels, I need to protect them".

MGTOW is a movement aimed at 'men going their own way' yet if you look at any of their things online it seems to be them just bitching about women in quite unpleasant terms, so I think it is natural that they get labelled as bitter and angry, because they are, why else would you reject your biology so completely as to reject women altogether. It is not the philosophy of a happy person who has great relationships with women.

What is wrong with raising another man's child? I have a great relationship with my stepdad, to me it seems like having a strong family whether joined or created is the furthest thing from being weak. It takes bravery to forge relationships with children who are not your own.

 

[RebelWithACause]

MGTOW is a movement aimed at 'men going their own way' yet if you look at any of their things online it seems to be them just bitching about women in quite unpleasant terms, so I think it is natural that they get labelled as bitter and angry, because they are, why else would you reject your biology so completely as to reject women altogether. It is not the philosophy of a happy person who has great relationships with women.

What is wrong with raising another man's child? I have a great relationship with my stepdad, to me it seems like having a strong family whether joined or created is the furthest thing from being weak. It takes bravery to forge relationships with children who are not your own.

I am not a fan of MGTOW (I prefer The Red Pill) because most of them check out completely from the rat race. I like to be competitive. And I like to play the game. I also like pussy.

But I understand these guys. A lot of MGTOWs are actually quite succesfull guys who choose to not deal with women.

Every movement is imperfect. It attracts all types of men. But the main thought behind it is understandable IMO.

I think raising another man's child is cuckoldry. I want my own kids. That is my biology. I want to get my genes out there.

No man wants raise another man's child. I can guarantee you he just does it because he can fuck your mom. That is not bravery my friend. Why is that brave? Everybody can raise other people's children.

He is applauded because women love guys like him. A provider that will take care of their kids. But for a man it is the stupidest thing you can do.

Like I said women's strategy is: get a guy with good genetics, get babies with him and if he does not provide for the kids, find a provider.

Look I understand you like your stepdad. But he got cucked by your mother. Good for her and good for you. But it is not optimal for him. He chose to leave his sexual strategy behind to raise you. That means he lost.

 

[MNK99]

It'd be hard to make the choice to stay.
Only someone who cares about the kid and wife would.... unless forced to.
NOT everything is "cuck or be cucked". My signature and shyt were mostly jokes, besides task lists that actually do not make sense. And ergo will only be half done.
Cuck or cucked in business/ wealth/ and with floosies or other slutty people and random douches.
Coming from someone who doesn't even believe in family, love, etc... BUT I'm certain I've seen it in others.

 

[RebelWithACause]

It'd be hard to make the choice to stay.
Only someone who cares about the kid and wife would.... unless forced to.
NOT everything is "cuck or be cucked". My signature and shyt were mostly jokes, besides task lists that actually do not make sense.
Coming from someone who doesn't even believe in family, love, etc... BUT I'm certain I've seen it in others.

I do believe in family. I think it is very important.

Look if you want to raise someones bastard child. Be my guest. I am not going to.

Raising a child means raising your genetics. It means making your child strong so he/she can continue the cycle of spreading your genes!

 

[MNK99]

What i'm trying to say is... I can see multiple different angles. Its not all 1 or the other.
-"little **** ain't my son". Haha jk.

 

[RebelWithACause]

What i'm trying to say is... I can see multiple different angles. Its not all 1 or the other.

Yes I understand. I am not claiming truth. This is how I see things. I think life is a game you can win or lose. And spreading your genes is one part of it.

When you are raising someone else's child you should think: "Where the fuck is the real dad? Why do I have to clean up his mess?".

The real dad should raise the fucking kid. Not you.

 

[MNK99]

Trust me there's no room in budget for bastards nor HIV in my game. NOT RITE NOW. AND the latter, never.
A girl in ENGLAND, my uncle was either messing with me or claimed she was pregnant (she wasn't but she may have lied, she was cute but PSYCHO).
TO CLARIFY: SHe lied... ANd my uncle was messing with me... just to screw with me.... twisted. But yeah. We laugh about it now. ALCOHOL was involved.
I did not run out on any kids... and jesus, she'd be better off (or someone would raising them) anyways, bc I was like 21. I'd be better, stronger, richer, as a proper adult male.
A better example or whatever. Anyways there were no kids, so it doesn't even matter but it still trips me out a bit.

 

[raven]

I am not a fan of MGTOW (I prefer The Red Pill) because most of them check out completely from the rat race. I like to be competitive. And I like to play the game. I also like pussy.

But I understand these guys. A lot of MGTOWs are actually quite succesfull guys who choose to not deal with women.

Every movement is imperfect. It attracts all types of men. But the main thought behind it is understandable IMO.

I think raising another man's child is cuckoldry. I want my own kids. That is my biology. I want to get my genes out there.

No man wants raise another man's child. I can guarantee you he just does it because he can fuck your mom. That is not bravery my friend. Why is that brave? Everybody can raise other people's children.

He is applauded because women love guys like him. A provider that will take care of their kids.

Look I understand you like your stepdad. But he got cucked by your mother. Good for her and good for you. But it is not optimal for him. He chose to leave his sexual strategy behind to raise you. That means he lost.

I think a comment like this shows why RedPill isnt great, you are reducing everything down to a simplistic evolutionary philosophy that just doesn't mirror reality in most cases. If you are part of a strong family who care for each other you have not lost anything, you have won. It's the people who have been weak and pushovers in their past relationships, that become bitter at women due to their own failings, who have lost.

Something does not have to be for you, does not mean that is true of everyone. Your life may be purely about spreading your genes, but for other people having strong relationships with family and friends is the most important thing, something I think a lot of RedPill and MGTOW people will realise too late.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I think a comment like this shows why RedPill isnt great, you are reducing everything down to a simplistic evolutionary philosophy that just doesn't mirror reality in most cases. If you are part of a strong family who care for each other you have not lost anything, you have won. It's the people who have been weak and pushovers in their past relationships, that become bitter at women due to their own failings, who have lost.

Something does not have to be for you, does not mean that is true of everyone. Your life may be purely about spreading your genes, but for other people having strong relationships with family and friends is the most important thing, something I think a lot of RedPill and MGTOW people will realise too late.

I think people are living in fantasy land and think that humans are magical. Biology is number one. You can walk away from it, ignore it, but it is still there.

I am looking for why people do certain things. It is subconscious. Even women's strategy. They do not think "I am going to cuck this guy". This is hardwired deep inside humans.

I do not want to raise someone else's kid. Where is the dad? That is what I would ask. Sometimes it does not work out, that is true. But why would I raise someone's kid if I can get my own with a girl?

If you are older man of course you are probably going to date women with baggage (children) but young men should never do this.

I think a lot of people just do not like these truths because they are dirty and do not "feel good". Human nature baby!

I want to see reality as closely as possible. I do not care about feeling good. I feel the best when I see reality for what it is. Not through a fluffy lens of wonder.

 

[MNK99]

REALITY sucks. Create my own. Parents used to say: "live in reality, live in reality, yada yada yada."
ANd later, I was like no. Fuck that.

 

[Niles]

I am not a fan of MGTOW (I prefer The Red Pill) because most of them check out completely from the rat race. I like to be competitive. And I like to play the game. I also like pussy.

But I understand these guys. A lot of MGTOWs are actually quite succesfull guys who choose to not deal with women.

Every movement is imperfect. It attracts all types of men. But the main thought behind it is understandable IMO.

I think raising another man's child is cuckoldry. I want my own kids. That is my biology. I want to get my genes out there.

No man wants raise another man's child. I can guarantee you he just does it because he can fuck your mom. That is not bravery my friend. Why is that brave? Everybody can raise other people's children.

He is applauded because women love guys like him. A provider that will take care of their kids.

Look I understand you like your stepdad. But he got cucked by your mother. Good for her and good for you. But it is not optimal for him. He chose to leave his sexual strategy behind to raise you. That means he lost.

Holy shit dude, that's absolutely brutal towards @raven lol. I've got a couple of friends my age who are each fathering a kid from their partner's previous relationship, and they're some of the happiest dudes I know. Who wouldn't love to start a family without having to raise an infant/toddler lol. It's like a life cheat code. I definitely don't think there's any one best way to live your life, but to me a life well spent has little to do with spreading genes, and a lot more to do with the relationships you form, lives you change, ideas you spread, things you create, happiness you cultivate in yourself and others, etc. Everyone wants a legacy, but to me genes don't have much to do with it. If you're a great father to a kid, then that kid will carry your legacy whether or not he/she carries your genes.

 

[MNK99]

-True, true. @Niles. I was gonna send you something: basically implying you rolling your eyes or waiting for your chance to strike
-And I've seen it. Divorced, sad... better family later. Divorced guys I know. I've seen plenty who should divorce too lol. Bad for kids too.
-At least for now/ last I saw em. -also obv there are men and women divorcing every couple yrs (that's a huge waste of time and money, for the guy esp).
-But also time, for the woman.
-Some ppl like being sick tho.

 

[raven]

I think everybody is different. I am just saying my view. I am not here to diss someone else's lifestyle.

I think people are living in fantasy land and think that humans are magical. Biology is number one. You can walk away from it, ignore it, but it is still there.

I am not thinking everyday "I am going to spread my genes". I am looking for why people do certain things. It is subconscious. Even women's strategy. They do not think "I am going to cuck this guy". This is hardwired deep inside humans.

I do not want to raise someone else's kid. Where is the dad? That is what I would ask. Sometimes it does not work out, that is true. But why would I raise someone's kid if I can get my own with a girl?

If you are older man of course you are probably going to date women with baggage (children) but young men should never do this.

I think a lot of people just do not like these truths because they are dirty and do not "feel good". Human nature baby!

I want to see reality as closely as possible. I do not care about feeling good. I feel the best when I see reality for what it is. Not through a fluffy lens of wonder.

The biological impulse to have kids is our libido, our brains wired us to procreate by giving us libido, nowadays we can have sex without procreating. So it is perfectly possible to satisfy your hardwired biological impulses without having children. Of course women reject weak men because they want to have strong children, so a lot of things are biology. I don't think it is going against biology to raise someone else's children though.

I want my own kids, I think apart from my period of struggling with anxiety I have done pretty well with women, yet still there are only a handful I have really connected with long term physically and emotionally. So when I meet someone else like that it will not be a factor whether she has a kid or not, and from my own experience forging a bond with the kid will be incredibly fulfilling in it's own right. (I am young so it would be a bit of a warning sign for someone my age to have a kid, but for when I get older)

 

[RebelWithACause]

Holy shit dude, that's absolutely brutal towards @raven lol. I've got a couple of friends my age who are each fathering a kid from their partner's previous relationship, and they're some of the happiest dudes I know. Who wouldn't love to start a family without having to raise an infant/toddler lol. It's like a life cheat code. I definitely don't think there's any one best way to live your life, but to me a life well spent has little to do with spreading genes, and a lot more to do with the relationships you form, lives you change, ideas you spread, things you create, happiness you cultivate in yourself and others, etc. Everyone wants a legacy, but to me genes don't have much to do with it. If you're a great father to a kid, then that kid will carry your legacy whether or not he/she carries your genes.

I like @raven

For me I do want my genetics spread. I want to raise my own kids. To each their own. In my opinion you lose the game in that regard. Does not mean you cannot win in other areas (creating a legacy).

I love this game man. Real life is a GAME. It is a videogame with everything in it.

The biological impulse to have kids is our libido, our brains wired us to procreate by giving us libido, nowadays we can have sex without procreating. So it is perfectly possible to satisfy your hardwired biological impulses without having children. Of course women reject weak men because they want to have strong children, so a lot of things are biology. I don't think it is going against biology to raise someone else's children though.

I want my own kids, I think apart from my period of struggling with anxiety I have done pretty well with women, yet still there are only a handful I have really connected with long term physically and emotionally. So when I meet someone else like that it will not be a factor whether she has a kid or not, (I am young so it would be a bit of a warning sign for someone my age to have a kid, but for when I get older)

I do not think it is against biology either. It happened all the time. Some guys are made to be providers. I am clearly not. I would say stay away from single mothers. They are looking for a provider, not a "boyfriend". Especially if you are young.

At the end of the day do whatever the fuck you want! As long as you respect yourself and not let people shit on you.

 

[raven]

I like @raven

For me I do want my genetics spread. I want to raise my own kids. To each their own. In my opinion you lose the game in that regard. Does not mean you cannot win in other areas (creating a legacy).

I love this game man. Real life is a GAME. It is a videogame with everything in it.



I do not think it is against biology either. It happened all the time. Some guys are made to be providers. I am clearly not. I would say stay away from single mothers. They are looking for a provider, not a "boyfriend". Especially if you are young.

At the end of the day do whatever the fuck you want! As long as you respect yourself and not let people shit on you.

I agree wholly with the last bit, if you have no confidence in yourself it is far easier to end up with a woman who will completely burn you, whether they have children or not. Because you don't have the confidence to find better.

 

[Niles]

I think people are living in fantasy land and think that humans are magical. Biology is number one. You can walk away from it, ignore it, but it is still there.

Sure, but we're not chimps - our ability to evolve culturally and technologically beyond the evolutionary baggage of our reptile brains is itself a part of our biology: the most advanced frontal lobe of any species on the planet. Even though those ape-like impulses are still there, you can see the power of cultural evolution silencing them in many different societies around the world. You say that men will always be dominant over women, but we already know this is not the case in societies where it is advantageous for the man to be submissive. There are multiple examples of existing matriarchal and polyandrous societies around the world.