The red pill: someone explain this to me

[supernature]

I guess if you just wanna get laid and the ends justify the means in your book, then these commandments would be words to live by. A bit skeezy for my taste, though—literally every commandment in there has the effect of lowering the girl's self esteem so they seek validation through sex. There's definitely better ways to get laid that don't involve bringing someone down.

Interesting, your last post has a good point, that the harmony is in the balance. If you skid in either direction: too passive or too powerful, its never good choice long term.

You say now those commands are to bring down the female, instead to bring up the male.

Idk if its true, but if its the case would be very weird and sneaky. All those recommended tactics come from low self esteem and confidence point of view not for anybody else but for the man, which isnt very good perspective to begin with. Thats why i dont like that kind of recommendations and suggestions. If that would be seen from someone as a valuable tool, then they must look at it like that: this stuff is for me, i need it, i am right down here, so when following all this i will go up there and my life will become better. A man have to firstly admit he is down there, to start going all that route. Whats good about this. I man need to have self respect at least, but when i woman finds out about all this, you can imagine where this respect for her will go about the man. This is how i see it.

 

[supernature]

Not to mention neither of those posts are about any red pill. Red pill definitely is not about trying to trick women into doing stuff while manipulating them and as i looked at the main points from the link posted im not sure if its any of those 16 either.

 

[supernature]

You did not even read the post. Plus Heartiste is one of the founding fathers of The Red Pill.

I don't give a shit what you guys think about it. I just tried to explain what The Red Pill is. The original red pill is "game"/PUA which you call manipulation (I have not heard that one before) and evolution psychology.

I hope it helps some of you. If not. Also good.

You own the website and you track who reads the link you posted, i give it a glance, cause niles was saying some in a feminist manner again, so i checked why he says its meant to bring down the females and understand from what he is trying to protect them again.

The red pill is supposed to be the truth in all aspects including the one never spoken. The game is a game, the women are women, you go there and try your luck.
The link you posted consists of words and stuff that comes from low self esteem, confidence and defamatory point of view for the man. What kind of red pill is this, this is ridicule the man in general.

XII. Maximize your strengths minimize your weaknesses

Thats not red pill, if this is a game, its a weak game. Yeah its gonna be of help to some, the weak one.

 

[Niles]

You did not even read the post. Plus Heartiste is one of the founding fathers of The Red Pill.

I don't give a shit what you guys think about it. I just tried to explain what The Red Pill is. The original red pill is "game"/PUA which you call manipulation (I have not heard that one before) and evolution psychology.

I hope it helps some of you. If not. Also good.

I feel like if you're gonna study and implement "game"/PUA you should at least be real with yourself about the fact that it's manipulative. If you're systematically implementing a laundry list of psychological tactics in order to convince a woman to have sex with you, you're acting in bad faith, i.e. inauthentically. The success of these bad faith tactics depends upon whether or not the woman sees them as authentic when they are not, and therefore part of the goal is to deceive. If you were to flawlessly perform each one of those "Commandments of Poon" and then show the girl the list of instructions you followed, don't you think they would feel disgusted, violated, and deceived?

Everyone engages in some level of manipulation when it comes to romantic/sexual relationships, but the difference is, with "game"/PUA, this manipulation is systematic, inauthentic, and devoid of emotional attachment/vulnerability on the part of the pick up artist.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I feel like if you're gonna study and implement "game"/PUA you should at least be real with yourself about the fact that it's manipulative. If you're systematically implementing a laundry list of psychological tactics in order to convince a woman to have sex with you, you're acting in bad faith, i.e. inauthentically. The success of these bad faith tactics depends upon whether or not the woman sees them as authentic, when they are not, and therefore part of the goal is to deceive. If you were to flawlessly perform each one of those "Commandments of Poon" and then show the girl the list of instructions you followed, don't you think they would feel disgusted, violated, and deceived?

Everyone engages in some level of manipulation when it comes to romantic/sexual relationships, but the difference is, with "game"/PUA, this manipulation is systematic, inauthentic, and devoid of emotional attachment/vulnerability on the part of the pick up artist.

I went a bit crazy in that post. I will explain it a bit.

You think it is wrong to use manipulation. I don't.

The connotation of manipulation is negative in this case which is why I made the distinction between Game and manipulation. It is the same thing yes.

I just think that when people say "b-b-b-but game is manipulation!!!" it is a childish way to look at the world. Everybody manipulates. Some manipulate with their intelligence, beauty, strength, etcetera. Maybe not on a concious level. But why not play it on a concious level if this gets you laid easily?

Morality and The Red Pill can fit. But it is not one thing. You can use the red pill knowledge and still be moral sound. It depends where your morals end how far you take it.

 

[Niles]

I went a bit crazy in that post. I will explain it a bit.

You think it is wrong to use manipulation. I don't.

The connotation of manipulation is negative in this case which is why I made the distinction between Game and manipulation. It is the same thing yes.

I just think that when people say "b-b-b-but game is manipulation!!!" it is a childish way to look at the world. Everybody manipulates. Some manipulate with their intelligence, beauty, strength, etcetera. Maybe not on a concious level. But why not play it on a concious level if this gets you laid easily?

Fair enough.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Fair enough.

It's hard to explain.

When I was a teen I had a hard time attracting girls. This is why I found game and pick up. And it helped me tremendously increasing my experience with girls. It also grows your balls, especially pick up. Walking up to girls, getting their number, etc. It is fun.

Yes I did lie to them once in a while. I made myself look better than I was.

I understand for a guy who has always had girls around him it is different. They might see this as cheating or "not right". But for a lot of guys this is a ticket to get a foot in the door.

After getting the experience I needed now I don't conciously use "game", it has become part of me. Teasing, sometimes ignoring because I really cannot be bothered, etc. Understanding the female nature better.

Those rules are made to fake it until you make it IMO. Eventually you start understanding what women are attracted to, and you become more like that automatically.

And then a whole new journey starts which is actually becoming a succesful somebody. Which I am not yet.

 

[Niles]

It's hard to explain.

When I was a teen I had a hard time attracting girls. This is why I found game and pick up. And it helped me tremendously increasing my experience with girls. It also grows your balls, especially pick up. Walking up to girls, getting their number, etc. It is fun.

Yes I did lie to them once in a while. I made myself look better than I was.

I understand for a guy who has always had girls around him it is different. They might see this as cheating or "not right". But for a lot of guys this is a ticket to get a foot in the door.

After getting the experience I needed now I don't conciously use "game", it has become part of me. Teasing, sometimes ignoring because I really cannot be bothered, etc. Understanding the female nature better.

Those rules are made to fake it until you make it IMO. Eventually you start understanding what women are attracted to, and you become more like that automatically.

And then a whole new journey starts which is actually becoming a succesful somebody. Which I am not yet.

I gotcha. I guess I'd interpreted it as more of a forever lifestyle of never letting yourself be vulnerable or genuine in front of a woman, all in the name of getting laid and maintaining the upper hand in any romantic scenario. I can see how "game" can be a tool to build confidence and experience until you can put your true self out there and have successful relationships. Even so, some of the language and tactics used in many of these pick-up guides seems unnecessarily degrading and disrespectful towards women, but I suppose I'm just more sensitive to that stuff as a leftist cuck.

 

[RebelWithACause]

I gotcha. I guess I'd interpreted it as more of a forever lifestyle of never letting yourself be vulnerable or genuine in front of a woman, all in the name of getting laid and maintaining the upper hand in any romantic scenario. I can see how "game" can be a tool to build confidence and experience until you can put your true self out there and have successful relationships. Even so, some of the language and tactics used in many of these pick-up guides seems unnecessarily degrading and disrespectful towards women, but I suppose I'm just more sensitive to that stuff as a leftist cuck.

Well there are rules to the game. It is not magic. That is where a lot of people are wrong.

When love is involved it becomes woo woo and spiritual. Instead of looking at what thousands of men have gathered they dismiss it instantly in favour for the good feelings of love. That is wrong in my opinion. And shows the lack of open mind. It also shows me that for these men, this fantasy is very important because their life is based around it. Why else would they defend it?

I understand why men desire to "let go" and open up with women. Men have a burden of performance. Men look for ways out. Escapism, alcohol but also barfing out their vulnerabilities to women. But the best way to be is to be strong and a bit distant. Especially if you want your girl to have maximum attraction to you.

She is not your mommy!

I have been on both sides of the coin:

Unsuccesful with women -> Successful with women.

What was the difference? That is what I look at. And the behaviour patterns taught by pick up artists and red pill work.

Now if you are an autist you migh take the advice all literal without calibration. You will probably hit a wall. You need SOME emotional intelligence if you want to be succesful. But the rules stand. And the information stands. Sometimes you have to comfort a girl. Sometimes you have to coldly ignore her. If you have some social intelligence you know when her problems are "real" and when not.

This is a good meme:



Another good thing to think about is: attention is the currency in girls' world. If you give your attention to her just like that. Your attention is not worth that much. If she has to work a bit for it, your attention is worth more.

I don't like discussing the red pill since it always ends up with the same discussion. The Red Pill is meant to help you, if you want it to help you. It is not to make your life worse. But a lot of people just cannot accept some of the things. Which is OK. Then ignore it and live life.

 

[supernature]

@Rebel

So Casanova and Don J(H)uan are being here all this time and we just recently found this out all by accident !?

You even admit it comes from a weak stand point, where you know Sheit and you want to know and be good.

And then a whole new journey starts which is actually becoming a succesful somebody. Which I am not yet.

Look, you say you've been drinking HCO3 for your hearburn almost all your life and you say its working but your heartburn is still there )) i.e. if its that effective as you know and apply it for so long, why are you still 'burping' ))

All this is very dry, do this do that, dont do this, this is like a funny manual how to drive a stick car.

 

[Niles]

Well there are rules to the game. It is not magic. That is where a lot of people are wrong.

When love is involved it becomes woo woo and spiritual. Instead of looking at what thousands of men have gathered they dismiss it instantly in favour for the good feelings of love. That is wrong in my opinion. And shows the lack of open mind. It also shows me that for these men, this fantasy is very important because their life is based around it. Why else would they defend it?

I understand why men desire to "let go" and open up with women. Men have a burden of performance. Men look for ways out. Escapism, alcohol but also barfing out their vulnerabilities to women. But the best way to be is to be strong and a bit distant. Especially if you want your girl to have maximum attraction to you.

She is not your mommy!

I have been on both sides of the coin:

Unsuccesful with women -> Successful with women.

What was the difference? That is what I look at. And the behaviour patterns taught by pick up artists and red pill work.

Now if you are an autist you migh take the advice all literal without calibration. You will probably hit a wall. You need SOME emotional intelligence if you want to be succesful. But the rules stand. And the information stands. Sometimes you have to comfort a girl. Sometimes you have to coldly ignore her. If you have some social intelligence you know when her problems are "real" and when not.

This is a good meme:

View attachment 1712

Another good thing to think about is: attention is the currency in girls' world. If you give your attention to her just like that. Your attention is not worth that much. If she has to work a bit for it, your attention is worth more.

I don't like discussing the red pill since it always ends up with the same discussion. The Red Pill is meant to help you, if you want it to help you. It is not to make your life worse. But a lot of people just cannot accept some of the things. Which is OK. Then ignore it and live life.

Hey, if it works for you it works for you. Not trying to say it can't make some people happy, only that my experience doesn't suggest that it's the best way. I'm generally a pretty guarded guy naturally, never wanting to burden anyone with my problems, but I can tell you that after having been in four 2+ year relationships that this eventually becomes a problem in itself. I've been pleaded with to let my guard down and be vulnerable in relationships, and when I have it's never been anything but positive. It's what brings you closer to someone - it builds trust and intimacy. But like with anything, moderation must be practiced; if I were to have a "woe-is-me" victim mindset and whine about everything all the time, I'm sure I'd be dumped eventually. But that's not just bad for the relationship, that's bad for personal growth as well.

That meme is pretty funny, but if the girls you're dating act like that it's not your problem, it's theirs.

 

[raven]

My last relationship died as I became more emotionally distant due to PSSD making me more numb. This idea about guys having to be guarded and emotionally closed in order to keep women is bs imo. It depends on the woman, and a woman who respects you less for being emotionally open isnt worth dating (doesnt apply if you're an emotional wreck)

 

[MNK99]

gotta make oneself vulnerable (never needy), but vulnerable, which depends on real authenticity and non bullshit. at least to have authentic interest/game. self investment>everything. people who are completely fake do attract a lot of fake people, in the end they all scatter like the bitches that they are. so being real is better.
case in point, things turn badly, where are all those fakeass friends?

This would be "beta game" to many, but "alpha game", most those guys are bitches. 99% of people are fake tho, so deceit and talking shit can get you laid far quicker. practice that 10 yrs straight it would be very easy. The thing is, what about all the real work you have to do? A complete sociopath would make time for both. People like me, need to prioritize one (or become extraordinarily efficient times 3).

Red pills obv matrix related.

 

[Aleksandr]

The Sixteen Commandments Of Poon - Chateau Heartiste

A lot of people are jumping down your throat about this site and i dont mean to do that... I think all opinions are valid, and hyper-masculine guys who focus on the 3 6's etc are interesting. We need all personalities to make the world work

But the article also seems to imply things like "being alone is bad". I just went through a 6 year relationship break up, and while being alone hasn't been comfortable, i think its been important for me to go through. It reminds me of a saying "in school you're given a lesson then take a test, in life. you take a test then learn a lesson"

 

[supernature]

A lot of people are jumping down your throat about this site and i dont mean to do that... I think all opinions are valid

Everybody has the right for an opinion and share what they think and exclusive right to do whatever the F they want to do, but to qualify yourself, to label yourself with stuff that comes from weak manly being is a little bit too shameful isnt it. Presenting it as a real hack, well its like hacking yourself in the back.

 

[Canari]

Alek you asked what is this pill, they said at the beginning that it is an alusión to the matrix film. I asked why those colours because actually the reason is ...the thermometer! It is not like black and white, thus they did not use those words, for the connotation. It is out of duality, as a thermometer, because you cannot say when you reach red = heat or when you reach cold = blue. You also change from cold to hot with a progression and you can hardly say when you really go from one to the other, except in extremes.

The extremes of red and blue are like burning fire or freezing like ice, with all the intermediates. And the thermometer shows that this is only ONE line where we go from one color to the other and back etc. This is the duality + the non duality, where things are like they are and you just feel them.

And this red and blue is actually an allegory of the nervous system, and the state of action and relaxation. Action is red or yang, and relaxation is blue or yin. The yin and yang symbol shows that each "color" or state contains the other, which is also true in life and in the Nervous System. Out of danger we alternate. In danger you "see red", which in french at least means that you become furious! The blues as music represents the excess of inaction, when you feel helpless and you have the blues...

And in the NS, when you go too much in red, it contains the blue as I just said. So when something is too much and you cannot stand it, you enter what has been called the freeze response. Actually it is true also that in action the body becomes hot! When you are inactive you get colder, and when you have a freeze response, your hands and feet become even colder. In excess people who knew they were going to die just had such a freeze response that their heart stopped beating. The best example is people jumping away from the fire from the towers, and they were dead before arriving, from a collapse, a freeze response. When people die of cold, they enter a state of anesthesia, which is the same as the freeze response.

So you can see that those colors are not by chance, and that they are even used in our common language, and also match body sensations.

 

[Canari]

Haha about manipulation… it starts much before we can see it, and everybody uses it anyway, even unconsciously! The only bad point is when you want to ruin somebody for your interest. Or else, there is nothign wrong. When a child is being nice to get something, they are manipulating. But you can also manipulate somebody to convince him or her to do something good, like when you try to convince your best friend to take a supp or do a hair test! You can manipulate for the good of a person!

Actually, the nervous system has not been explained publicly just because it is more interresting for many people that you do not know! Up to the point that most people even refuse the knowledge! How easy it becomes for leaders to just give enough bred and games… and voila, you get caught in having a job and children and you are hooked for your life until you die.

Those who know something about the nervous system, they learn part of it in marketing courses, advertizing.... Or for copywriting… A dog behaviorist colleague was joking one day that what we learn in behavior comes from studies on animals, and that they are applied on humans only in the art of manipulation!

If you want to have success in any form of relationship, you just need to feel how the flow of the ventral Branch of the nervous system is working and how it affects the way you are able to truely connect to others. All the rest IS manipulation! I do not even mean what you feel like when you fall in love. I would say that it is more about what you feel when you sing in a choir in harmony.

 

[jacknap]

@Nina the ethos of red pill is essentially to be in reality of what actually works in the dating market to attract who you want to attract.

from there, individuals bring their own bullshit into the equation

like in the matrix the red pill means you see through the matrix and what reality really is. whereas blue pill is keep believing in comforting lies.

for example a red pill truth is that women often do not marry the men that they lust after the most. this can be uncomforting for many males hence why it's not sugar coated it's a red pill, it's a harsh truth. Ideally we'd like the partner we are with to like us the most not settle.

as far as tactics that all depends on the individuals style, ethics, etc. it's an art form in the game of life and whether red pill is used humanely or not is up to the individual. that's my 2 cents not sure if that helps. I think a lot of things are misunderstandings though and getting overly wrapped up in symantics. I think it's extremely hard to dehumanize someone in a relationship even if you try. Much easier for governments to do so when people are just a number. When you're having a sexual relationship with someone, humanity is almost a given unless you're a sociopath. In which case red pill is not the problem, rather sociopathy.

 

[Canari]

like in the matrix the red pill means you see through the matrix and what reality really is. whereas blue pill is keep believing in comforting lies.

it's a red pill, it's a harsh truth.

I think it's extremely hard to dehumanize someone in a relationship even if you try.

Yep, red can be hot and stimulating as hot peppers!
Blue is to be relaxed, but also too relaxed.
Both colors have hues.

Dehumanizing starts from much less. Even under-estimating or over-estimating are already de-humanizing, because it means to not see "what reality is", as in the matrix! It needs both red and blue actually.
It is also not only a permanent feature, but something we all do, though it can last a few seconds sometimes.

Interesting, your last post has a good point, that the harmony is in the balance. If you skid in either direction: too passive or too powerful, its never good choice long term.

Right and this is why I mentionned we need both red and blue, though it does not mean purple!

The problem of the balance is that we see it as a fixed image with both plates at the same level. Actually it is a see-saw between red and blue, and immobility is death.

Thus the blue and red, like the thermometer, and we can see it with climate extremes, that we can handle a certain margin of change, but not big extremes. We need some hormesis, some stimulation, but not too much. And we cannot all stand the same amounts of intensity on the sides of red and blue. This is where health issues come from: anything that made our inner pendulum goes mad.

And about relationships, it is about harmonising the waves of 2 persons, or more in social situations. If somebody does not respect what intensity you can handle and how fast it rises, it blocks the other person. It takes some time to be at the right distance and go at the right space, and never think "Ok now it is ok, I am accepted and I can do whatever I want".
Then you hurt the other.
No, you have to always keep contact and always go on following the person who has the slowest rythm. It is actually easy when you connect, because our body is made to "clinc" and then the rythm becomes natural.
It is easy to compare this to people playing music together!

 

[supernature]

Right and this is why I mentionned we need both red and blue, though it does not mean purple!

The problem of the balance is that we see it as a fixed image with both plates at the same level. Actually it is a see-saw between red and blue, and immobility is death.

Thus the blue and red, like the thermometer, and we can see it with climate extremes, that we can handle a certain margin of change, but not big extremes. We need some hormesis, some stimulation, but not too much. And we cannot all stand the same amounts of intensity on the sides of red and blue. This is where health issues come from: anything that made our inner pendulum goes mad.

And about relationships, it is about harmonising the waves of 2 persons, or more in social situations. If somebody does not respect what intensity you can handle and how fast it rises, it blocks the other person. It takes some time to be at the right distance and go at the right space, and never think "Ok now it is ok, I am accepted and I can do whatever I want".
Then you hurt the other.
No, you have to always keep contact and always go on following the person who has the slowest rythm. It is actually easy when you connect, because our body is made to "clinc" and then the rythm becomes natural.
It is easy to compare this to people playing music together!

I see what you say, it comes from good mood and vibes. Actually the matrix says the same, but some artists say a man needs only the red and using some remembered sentences to try to connect with girls. With girls yes, esp with some girls, with real classy ladies who knows if that would be enough. Some guys here think with some shortcuts they can become real masters, that is optimistic i agree, but if one think thats enough for LTR might get little dissapointed. Now its clear if a woman likes a man he dont need any pick up lines, nor blue or red mentality, the things gonna happen no matter what.