Thyroid, Reverse T3 & PFS

[JonnyCraig]

This study is interesting, though not on humans...

Summary: The possible role of thyroid hormones in the Nitric Oxide (NO)- mediated response to sexual stimulation, and on prostaglandin E1 (PGE1) and sildenafil in the treatment of erectile dysfunction was investigated using the corpus cavernosum of the New Zealand rabbit animal model. The parameters studied were penile erection monitored as contractile force of the erectile tissue, sperm count and motility; in parallel with the haematocrit, red cell count or rheology, Heart Rate (HR), Mean Arterial Pressure (MAP), Thyroid Stimulating Hormones (TSH) and Thyroixine levels. Hypothyroidism or thyroidectomy was found to cause depletion of Endothelium Derived Relaxant Factor (EDRF) thereby causing very feeble contraction of the cavernosum muscle, in both Prostaglandin E1 (PGE1) and Sildenafil, oligospermia and less than 45% motile sperms. Thyroxine treatment produced contraction proportionate to the concentrations of PGE1 and Sildenafil; providing evidence that the erectogenic actions of both PGE1 and Sildenafil are possible only in the presence of adequate thyroid hormone level

That is quite interesting !

joekool: Sorry I know you mentioned this before but I am in a time crunch and currently on conference call at work.

Question: How much MCG of T3 do you take at a time, and how much do you take total in a day?

How do you dose? Morning, afternoon, evening? How do you prevent the dip from going hypo while T3 short half-life tapers off overnight?

Also, do you think 8mcg T3 is too much to dose at once? I am thinking just doing 8mcg T3 drop on tongue, twice and day, morning/afternoon'ish then later on in the day towards the evening, and gauge it by body temp.

Thoughts?

 

[joekool]

I'm currently at about 30mcg twice a day... morning and afternoon... I haven't added another dose yet because ~60mcg daily seems to be doing the trick... I would add a 3rd dose near dinner time if I wanted to go to ~90mcg

I don't get the nighttime dip in hypo at all... i was actually talking to Tubzy about it, because i don't suffer any issues at night... nor mornings... which are 8 and 16 hours after my 1pm-ish dose...

I started at ~25mcg in the mornings for a week... i never did a lower dose so i don't know if 8mcg would be sufficient... you can't go wrong starting low though... and moving up weekly... I never seem hypo though and my turtling issue hasn't re-occurred so i'm sticking to this dosage for a little while longer... hoping when I come off, it sticks...

Give me the dial in number and passcode to your conference line... i'll explain everything to the team !! j/king

"I want 4 new ideas by 6pm ! Make that 6 new ideas by 4pm ! Get crackin ! "

 

[JonnyCraig]

I'm currently at about 30mcg twice a day... morning and afternoon... I haven't added another dose yet because ~60mcg daily seems to be doing the trick... I would add a 3rd dose near dinner time if I wanted to go to ~90mcg

I don't get the nighttime dip in hypo at all... i was actually talking to Tubzy about it, because i don't suffer any issues at night... nor mornings... which are 8 and 16 hours after my 1pm-ish dose...

I started at ~25mcg in the mornings for a week... i never did a lower dose so i don't know if 8mcg would be sufficient... you can't go wrong starting low though... and moving up weekly... I never seem hypo though and my turtling issue hasn't re-occurred so i'm sticking to this dosage for a little while longer... hoping when I come off, it sticks...

Give me the dial in number and passcode to your conference line... i'll explain everything to the team !! j/king

"I want 4 new ideas by 6pm ! Make that 6 new ideas by 4pm ! Get crackin ! "

lmao.

Thanks!

Wow... very interesting... Peat says anything over 5mcg T3 taken at once may be too much (he isn't god, just saying, I'm sure you're aware he's said that).

I'm just a bit worried that People on RPF claim T3-ONLY = not doing wonders for hair, maybe bad..... then on Tyromix T4/T3 = good for hair..

 

[Clementine]

Yes you do, but where is your RT3

Last time I checked it was the lower end of normal. Admittedly, it's been a while since I last tested. I was under the impression that you can't have abnormally high Rt3 with good t3 levels simultaneously because the t4 is converted into one or the other.

 

[joekool]

I wanted to share something another person offered which is right along the lines of what I've been trying to describe regarding RT3...


Excess cortisol (due to insensitivity) would suppress immune system which would allow for infections to increase in the body. These infections would increase reverse T3 and lower body temperature.

The Physiology of Stress: Cortisol and the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis


Also notice that many PFS'ers come up with Epstein Barr Virus which has been reactivated, others with Lyme that was probably dormant and became activated with weakened immune system.


Also, I was diagnosed with Epstein Barr as a kid... I didn't even think it could matter these days... but I also plan on lowering my T3 dosage because I've lost more weight than i wanted ... I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet but i'll update everyone when i lower it...

 

[TubZy]

I wanted to share something another person offered which is right along the lines of what I've been trying to describe regarding RT3...


Excess cortisol (due to insensitivity) would suppress immune system which would allow for infections to increase in the body. These infections would increase reverse T3 and lower body temperature.

The Physiology of Stress: Cortisol and the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Adrenal Axis


Also notice that many PFS'ers come up with Epstein Barr Virus which has been reactivated, others with Lyme that was probably dormant and became activated with weakened immune system.


Also, I was diagnosed with Epstein Barr as a kid... I didn't even think it could matter these days... but I also plan on lowering my T3 dosage because I've lost more weight than i wanted ... I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet but i'll update everyone when i lower it...

I got mono/ebv coming off fin as well. I tested positive for it multiple times during PFS.

 

[brix]

I had mono right before I took fin. Have had low temps/hypothyroidism ever since.

My TSH is around 3.2 but ft3 is high and ft4 is low (both in range, but barely).

I have tyromix and t3. Not sure which to use as I suspect rt3 to be high as well. Thoughts?

 

[joekool]

Well, Brix, as i've stated & hoping it sticks, RT3 can only be made from T4 so if you use T3 only & eventually your own Thyroid's feedback loop will stop producing it's own T4, and flush out your RT3... which is where I believe I stand now... I need to have bloodwork done to confirm

I also want to say, post masturbation or sex, I haven't had the 'crash' as a result of high prolactin... I feel normal afterwards... now, the desire or libido is different still, whereas pre-fin, I swear the signal to get busy was from my prostate , deep within... but that hasn't been felt... and I'm hoping i don't forget how that felt so it can return someday... but the new 'desire' is very different... almost from my brain rather than lower.

 

[JonnyCraig]

 

[Helen]

@JonnyCraig

Jonny, it is because body will fight t3 with other means, RT3 is not the only way to do this. It will tank potassium. and when you take t4 you always have rt3 to oppose t3 . Since insulin is needed for all this. No sugar thyroid is going to be blocked.

Some people actually need more thyroid to be blocked to feel warm. warm = sugar deliver to thyroid speed. If speed is too fast and insulin is too low-= adrenaline, you feel cold.
He did not feel hypo thyroid, he felt adrenaline. t4 just blocks thyroid. Some people can actually take t3 and t4 and decrease adrenaline. and feel warm LOL they think they are increasing metabolism , but they are decreasing thyroid/

Joe blocked estrogen with the AI. Estrogen is what converts dopamine into noradenaline, so if you block estrogen , there is no adrenaline. This is why if you take thyroid t3 with AI. the only thing you will get is fever and inflammation. You will not feel adrenaline.

With you taking progesterone, it should not happen.

You should undestand that taking t3 will increase estrogen since t3 starts up your steroid axis. And this will increase= adrenaline and prolactin. And prolactin will stop the steroid axis. So it is the second protection against hyperthyroidism.

Your body will fight thyroid with RT3 and also with prolactin. Prolactin increases calcium absorption and this lowers potassium entry into the cell.

 

[Ailaeshiz]

Where exactly are you getting T3 from?

 

[JonnyCraig]

@JonnyCraig

Jonny, it is because body will fight t3 with other means, RT3 is not the only way to do this. It will tank potassium. and when you take t4 you always have rt3 to oppose t3 . Since insulin is needed for all this. No sugar thyroid is going to be blocked.

Some people actually need more thyroid to be blocked to feel warm. warm = sugar deliver to thyroid speed. If speed is too fast and insulin is too low-= adrenaline, you feel cold.
He did not feel hypo thyroid, he felt adrenaline. t4 just blocks thyroid. Some people can actually take t3 and t4 and decrease adrenaline. and feel warm LOL they think they are increasing metabolism , but they are decreasing thyroid/

Joe blocked estrogen with the AI. Estrogen is what converts dopamine into noradenaline, so if you block estrogen , there is no adrenaline. This is why if you take thyroid t3 with AI. the only thing you will get is fever and inflammation. You will not feel adrenaline.

With you taking progesterone, it should not happen.

You should undestand that taking t3 will increase estrogen since t3 starts up your steroid axis. And this will increase= adrenaline and prolactin. And prolactin will stop the steroid axis. So it is the second protection against hyperthyroidism.

Your body will fight thyroid with RT3 and also with prolactin. Prolactin increases calcium absorption and this lowers potassium entry into the cell.

Thanks for the info.

It sounds like you firmly believe T4 is literally anti-thyroid... correct?

 

[joekool]

T4 is the main hormone your thyroid produces. It's then converted into T3 and RT3. RT3 is definitely considered the anti t3

 

[JonnyCraig]

T4 is the main hormone your thyroid produces. It's then converted into T3 and RT3. RT3 is definitely considered the anti t3

Yes, but.. do we really know all about RT3? Shouldn't we look at both sides of the coin here?

Perhaps it's there as a safety mechanism and if you just keep boosting T3, T3, T3, other things can go haywire??

I understand T4-only treatment is somewhat archaic as a treatment but perhaps there is reason also?

I'm just not sure we should close the book on RT3 being the devil and that's that... Not that I'm saying it's a good thing, but it's likely there for a reason and other things should be adjusted...

 

[brix]

I have been taking t3 at 8mcg a day and it drops my temps by a degree. Any idea why?

 

[johnsmith]

I have been taking t3 at 8mcg a day and it drops my temps by a degree. Any idea why?

It probably lowered your stress.

 

[brix]

It probably lowered your stress.

What should I do? Lower or increase dosage?

 

[johnsmith]

Temperatures can also drop after eating a meal, and I have heard it can mean the same thing.

Do you take that dose all at once, once a day? JonnyCraig mentioned a dosage warning above, but I'm not too sure.

I have also heard, when you first start thyroid, your supposed to start slow, and slowly work your way up over several weeks. But maybe that precaution was more so for if your supplementing T4 with it.

If you take thyroid in pill form, orally, taking it with food helps the T/3 kick in more gradual and therefore last longer.

 

[JonnyCraig]

I'm no gbolduev, but.... you're taking 8mcg of T3, only, a day?

T3 has a short half-life (when compared to T4, which tends to build and has a cumulative effect).

I took T3 8mcg like a week ago.. felt good, but it only lasted a few hours. I only took 1 dose, then decided to go back to Tyromix (T4/T3 in a 2:1 ratio) after reading more and also because I've used this with great results earlier this year.

Right now I'm using (2) drops a day of Tyromix (3mcg T3, 6mcg T4, per drop). I'm taking this in the afternoon and then in the evening before bed.

It seems to be starting in kick in as of this morning.. (wokeup feeling warm, temps were like 97.7 upon waking, which usually is in 96's... so, progress!).

I think if you wanna go T3-only, you will need more T3, and will need to dose a few times a day, at least twice, but that is all relative. It's quite possible for you to go hypo overnight (which is one of the reasons I prefer to be on T4/T3 mix, as the build up of T4 prevents this).

I am using Progesterone as well (pro-thyroid, for multiple reasons, from the words of gbolduev, Peat, etc,etc).

Also, I know this isn't the best way to gauge this but.... when I took the T3 8mcg drop last week...my temps went up high.. then dropped a few hours later. I don't want to say it felt like a crash but it wasn't the smoothest thing.

I know Peat generally recommends using no more than 5mcg of T3 at a time, too. That also influenced my decision. That is easy to fix if you dilute the solution but heh.

 

[joekool]

I've increased my Letro dosage per Gbolduev, as I need to completely destroy estrogen for this to work... I may need to increase my dosage as I feel the benefits are wearing off or thin...

I've suffered some tightening & certainly no libido... but the benefits aren't as striking the past few days...