Ulcerative Colitis / IBD

[HerrFisch]

@Orion

KCl 4-5g
MgCl 2-3g
Seasalt 3g + 3g before excercise

With every meal 1g Kcl, 750mg MgCl, 1g Seasalt (3x day.) Rest potassium is in my bottle for the day.

But I think its important to find your own "right" dosage.

 

[Orion]

@Orion

KCl 4-5g
MgCl 2-3g
Seasalt 3g + 3g before excercise

With every meal 1g Kcl, 750mg MgCl, 1g Seasalt (3x day.) Rest potassium is in my bottle for the day.

But I think its important to find your own "right" dosage.

Thanks, those are some nice hefty doses.

 

[HerrFisch]

@Orion

Are you still using electrolytes as well?
How are your dosages? I just saw your potassium and sodium levels are already pretty good ^^

 

[Orion]

@Orion

Are you still using electrolytes as well?
How are your dosages? I just saw your potassium and sodium levels are already pretty good ^^

Hoping my new hairtest results come in the next week, to see where I am.

Using 3g KCl, 600mg MgCl and salt to taste during the day. I think will try to increase the MgCl a bit more and wait on hairtest before changing NaCl.

I use ~5g HCl with each meal(protein, spinach, etc).

 

[HerrFisch]

Not really important, but my TSH went from 3.7 to 4.8. (September - February)
Could be because I used some antihistamines weeks ago before I started electrolytes.
But could be as well from zinc & manganese only, which I used at first. Without any binders like lysine, vit C, histidine ...maybe more copper that destroyed tyrosin / tyrosinase.

My "thyroid ratio" on my latest hairtest actually got better and into range, so I kind of expected it to be lower than 3.7. Will see next time.

 

[HerrFisch]

For the past few days Ive been sick with a really big swolen nose and after some days my eyes got swolen as well. But no other signs of a "normal" cold like coughing etc. Pretty weird. Just swolen face.
Ive been taking Lysine Hcl for quite a time now.
And I read similar things happening to people using lysine long term.

Something like lysine blocking arginine absorption and / or changing virus / bacterial immune system.
I think there is something to it. As Lysine is used for herpes, which breaks out with a lot of arginine.

Ive taken some arginine besides lysine yesterday and my face is pretty much back to normal.
For me its safe to say its arginine.

Seems like nothing is safe long term. Not even amino acids. (single amino acids)




PS: I will update you guys on UC / IBS in some days. Need some more time to actually analize how things are and to describe what I experienced.

 

[HerrFisch]

Im now 5-6 weeks into electrolyte protocol.

I started off with KCl and MgCl only.

I was permanent in that state, which I pushed myself in with caffeine, sport etc. (fast(er) metabolism)

When my breathing was good, I felt good.

Decided to add sodium which gave me even better improvements. I felt like my metabolism picked up. I could feel increase in breathing drive.

But after some days, I had little off days. And I could exactely link them to slowed breathing drive.
When I was breathing really little, it was like I dont really need to breathe, I had IBS problems.

So I stopped MgCl - which I felt, was slowing me down. (chloride form) But it only helped litte.




By being focused so much on electrolytes, I totally forgot about binding copper. (was only taking zinc,mn,moly)

So I added lysine back in. I think it was the copper slowing my metabolism again. It was instant improvement with lysine!

Was on 4g elemental potassium from supplements and bananas. Using more salt as well as dropping some salt into my pre workout.

And for copper I was using 5-7g lysine Hcl.

I had no off days and was feeling really good.!! IBS & UC was gone ! @gbolduev
My digestion worked like a charm. Was going on the toilet every 2 days. It was like when I was younger and had no problems.


THAT would have been my update. Unfortunately some days ago, I got sick with swolen nose and eyes. Could link that to lysine / arginine.
Used some Arginine ketoglutarate together with lysine and swolen nose and eyes went away.

Unfortunately now my metabolism feels slowed down / blocked again. Like it did when I forgot about copper. My breathing drive is down as well as my digestion. (
Toilet time is back up to 3 times per day.( IBS)

Cant tell right now whats the problem.

- Co2 from sitting at home sick without sports etc? No sweating ?
- somehow again copper slowing me down?
- I stopped HCl, only using protein without hcl. (Thought my digestion is able to do this alone? )

THis is shit. I felt soo good the last 2 weeks. I hope metabolism will get back online

When metabolism is up, as well as breathing drive its like everything gets burned / digested and I feel fine. + I can cope stress easily.
As soon as my metabolism gets slowed down, breathing drive is down and it feels like everything gets digested but not "burned" / used up. Stress resistance + IBS is worst. And so I have to go to toilet a lot.



I have no clue right now.

 

[mattyb]

Sounds like you just need to get the cycling/timing of lysine down so that you don't have to use arginine and then you'd be alright? Just seems like if you stay on too high of a dose of lysine for too long you deplete arginine, then you correct by taking arginine and this slows you back down.

I kind of have to do some similar "active balancing" to keep my skin rashes at bay. There's a certain sweet spot of exercise, salt, sugar, protein, etc. that I have to constantly balance in between and if I go to far out of that balance something bad happens. It's all related to respiratory drive, when it's high I'm fine - when it's low is when symptoms usually come back. But I can't push too hard in that direction though, because otherwise I get burned out and salt deficient, which then lowers respiratory drive on it's own.

 

[HerrFisch]

@mattyb

interesting!
Any idea why arginine slows down though?
And do you think its possible to get out of that active balancing?

I actually though I would be free of it at some point makes me so sad/mad right now. Its was so good for 2 weeks.

Maybe if carnosine ( histidine) was not the right thing for me becuase of histamine,
Lysine is not the right thing in high dose for copper for me as well and I have to search for something else
Maybe I should try small amounts of carnosine and small amounts of lysine. I feel way less histamine issues with carnosine than histidine.

 

[Orion]

- I stopped HCl, only using protein without hcl. (Thought my digestion is able to do this alone? )

I tried lower my HCl doses as well, if I go too low right now, digestion grinds to a halt. Maybe continue with HCl for abit longer.

 

[mattyb]

Arginine is probably upregulating iNOS, which upregulates NO/superoxide (O2-) and causes formation of peroxynitrite (ONOO-) and downstream RNS. This causes UC/IBD to flare back up since the immune system detects the ONOO- and subsequent damage from it, and the body responds by trying to decrease superoxide generation by lowering metabolism.

Then you take lysine and 'lytes for a while, metabolism goes back, and repeat the cycle once you deplete arginine again. You just have to learn how to balance it. When to throttle back on lysine doses (or stop altogether for a bit), tinkering with lower dosages of arginine to correct those acute deficiencies, and how to fit in these dosages with lifestyle/stress/exercise, etc.

I'm curious how you would respond to something like beet juice or beetroot extract, if it would make UC worse or better. Or if you could use things like watermelon while retracting lysine to correct the arginine deficiency in a softer way.

 

[HerrFisch]

Ok will see if it gets better in the next days.
Uc is still fine, just IBS came back.

Arginine in the past did nothing in terms of UC. not better nor worse. Only thing that worsened or flared Uc with NO was Citrulline. 5-7g. Or maybe it was the malate part.

 

[mattyb]

My guess is because the lysine is impacting arginine absorption, the arginine deficiency causes an acute upregulation of NOS to maximize NO synthesis since it's so important for homeostasis. So when you eventually start allowing the body to take in arginine like normal (by removing lysine and supping arginine), those hyperactive/abundant NOS quickly convert it to NO at a much higher rate than normal - hitting the body harder than it can handle all at once.

 

[mattyb]

Another thought is that you could undulate lysine supplementation with physically active days. When you are inactive, take lysine. It's metabolism will produce more H+, which will increase respiratory drive because of the increased concentration of H2CO3 (acidity). When you are really active, don't take lysine on those days - respiratory drive will stay higher because of your activity levels, and this will keep metabolism humming along without the need for lysine. Likewise, on really really active days, you could even supplement with some glycine or collagen, which will hopefully take the existing lysine in your body to help form GHK-Cu since metabolism will be running really high.

 

[HerrFisch]

Looks like digestion is back on track.

Cant say if it was betain hcl or the fact that lysine outplayed arginine again.

Maybe I still need some Betaine HCL to (tank) make potassium work.

Going to supplement like @mattyb said. Im lowering it to 3g 5d/week.

 

[HerrFisch]

If my potassium isnt working without betain hcl, there is probably still copper or else that slows metabolism?

@mattyb
If I use Betain HCL, there should be enough Glycine for the Lysine & GHK-Cu right?

 

[mattyb]

HCl is like an accelerator when paired with potassium. HCl "loosens" the cell, making it more permeable. If you take HCl alone, you'll lose potassium faster than you can replenish it and metabolism will go down. If you take potassium alone, there's no efflux of potassium so the cells take in too much and this causes some problems. But if you take HCl + potassium, this increases efflux rate while providing adequate potassium to force in inward gradient of potassium back into the cell, and this increase in potassium exchange rate forces metabolism higher - not only that, but the H+ provides substrate to drive mitochondrial ATPase, and the Cl- balances the charge of increased H+ while also creating an electrochemical gradient that facilitates cell signalling (because we want the cell more acidic the closer to the nucleus we go). That's at least my understanding of it, but it could be off.

I think a diet very rich in lysine, potassium, and chloride can be sufficient to make it so you don't need betaine HCl though.

I'm not sure if betaine is digested into glycine or not, or if it stays in it's triplet structure. Not too sure on the digestive pathway of betaine. It could possibly stay in it's structure, and then get used in the methylation structure. Considering betaine lowers homocysteine, I'm assuming it stays in it's configuration and isn't broken down so it may not separate into glycine because betaine is used to convert homocysteine. You could always try adding glycine on it's own or taking a collagen hydrosalate - I doubt it would hurt in rebuilding the digestive tract.

 

[HerrFisch]

Daily thoughts. (I know its all over and over again)

I think everything that flared UC but improved IBS symptoms in the past did actually tank potassium.

And as soon as potassium was low, Cortisol got even lower and thus HDC went up.

And with high HDC all histidine and b6 gets used for that enzyme.
And you are stuck with no chelation of copper. Acting like a break for metabolism.
No potassium & accumulation of copper. But looking/acting like pathogen response. With low iron.

-NADPH is down as is antioxidants like glutathione, SOD, methylation down, thyroid, ...
all problems from slow metabolism, but are needed a lot in inflammation.

Even though you can go into remission, as soon as the metabolism increase is needed but impossible to handle, you are back in a flare up.


Fasting makes sense in this context as it stops you from getting more histamine. But I dont know what would happen long term with cortisol. If it could go up even with little potassium. But with longer fasting you prob. wont need to much cortisol for UC to heal as there is less free radicals ROS, etc. stuff to do

So UC needs "fast metabolism with a lot of cortisol to heal. But fast metabolism crashes everywhere but local at the gut. Its impossible to be in inflammation and slow metabolism. So mitochondrial fission is upregulated. Metabolism locally stays up and causes, but cant handle, a lot of ROS.
So body is stuck in "starting phase" of inflammation (vasodilation, permable cells due to histamine, ) but never comes to "healing phase"


IMO the best I did for UC so far was using potassium.
Normally you would say, if everything that speeds up metabolism worsens UC, dont use potassium.
But it looks like everything that speed up metabolism just used more potassium that was there until it crashed.

So the big mistake was to try to speed up metabolism without thinking about it's "fuel"?

 

[Helen]

Daily thoughts. (I know its all over and over again)

I think everything that flared UC but improved IBS symptoms in the past did actually tank potassium.

And as soon as potassium was low, Cortisol got even lower and thus HDC went up.

And with high HDC all histidine and b6 gets used for that enzyme.
And you are stuck with no chelation of copper. Acting like a break for metabolism.
No potassium & accumulation of copper. But looking/acting like pathogen response. With low iron.

-NADPH is down as is antioxidants like glutathione, SOD, methylation down, thyroid, ...
all problems from slow metabolism, but are needed a lot in inflammation.

Even though you can go into remission, as soon as the metabolism increase is needed but impossible to handle, you are back in a flare up.


Fasting makes sense in this context as it stops you from getting more histamine. But I dont know what would happen long term with cortisol. If it could go up even with little potassium. But with longer fasting you prob. wont need to much cortisol for UC to heal as there is less free radicals ROS, etc. stuff to do

So UC needs "fast metabolism with a lot of cortisol to heal. But fast metabolism crashes everywhere but local at the gut. Its impossible to be in inflammation and slow metabolism. So mitochondrial fission is upregulated. Metabolism locally stays up and causes, but cant handle, a lot of ROS.
So body is stuck in "starting phase" of inflammation (vasodilation, permable cells due to histamine, ) but never comes to "healing phase"


IMO the best I did for UC so far was using potassium.
Normally you would say, if everything that speeds up metabolism worsens UC, dont use potassium.
But it looks like everything that speed up metabolism just used more potassium that was there until it crashed.

So the big mistake was to try to speed up metabolism without thinking about it's "fuel"?

Man , you need to follow Raincoast program. I thought you were doing it. you need zinc manganese boron moly etc. Just read his program. how he did it.

 

[HerrFisch]

Man , you need to follow Raincoast program. I thought you were doing it. you need zinc manganese boron moly etc. Just read his program. how he did it.

Dude. I got all of those covered.
Im on the "program".

Those were just thoughts. Im still on everything I need
Just had some problems with Lysine