Ulcerative Colitis / IBD

[Helen]

What if you have low folate, and inability to break down histidine into glutamic acid.

Im not sure what that would mean. What would that have an impact on?

Too much histidine, too much histamine , and little glutamine? glutamine for intestines.

Why dont you just test this and get it over with. Just test histidine

 

[HerrFisch]

Too much histidine, too much histamine , and little glutamine? glutamine for intestines.

Why dont you just test this and get it over with. Just test histidine

Im not sure if its about too much histidine. I think its histidine missing because of overactive HDC. As h2o2 increases this 10fold.
yes Glutamate formimminotransferase can be low with folate missing. Low FIGLU + litte histidine could lead to little glutamic acid.

I think with high HDC its complicated because if you lower your histidine, you will have less histamine but less histidine too.
I wonder if mattys thought about overloading with histidine could be worth a try. Maybe with extra NAC.

Maybe that can help clear h2o2 with histidine and after that, HDC will be lower?

HISTOPATHOLOGICAL COMPARISON OF THE EFFECTS
OF HISTIDINE AND KETOTIFEN IN A RAT MODEL OF COLITIS

Decreased Plasma Histidine Level Predicts Risk of Relapse in Patients with Ulcerative Colitis in Remission

Histidine Decarboxylase Deficiency Prevents Autoimmune Diabetes in NOD Mice

 

[mattyb]

What if you have low folate, and inability to break down histidine into glutamic acid.

From this study, it looks like high urinary histidine excretion followed by anemia.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12486209

 

[mattyb]

Im not sure if its about too much histidine. I think its histidine missing because of overactive HDC. As h2o2 increases this 10fold.
yes Glutamate formimminotransferase can be low with folate missing. Low FIGLU + litte histidine could lead to little glutamic acid.

I think with high HDC its complicated because if you lower your histidine, you will have less histamine but less histidine too.
I wonder if mattys thought about overloading with histidine could be worth a try. Maybe with extra NAC.

Maybe that can help clear h2o2 with histidine and after that, HDC will be lower?

HISTOPATHOLOGICAL COMPARISON OF THE EFFECTS
OF HISTIDINE AND KETOTIFEN IN A RAT MODEL OF COLITIS

Decreased Plasma Histidine Level Predicts Risk of Relapse in Patients with Ulcerative Colitis in Remission

Histidine Decarboxylase Deficiency Prevents Autoimmune Diabetes in NOD Mice

So maybe something like NAC + Selenium (brazil nut x 1 every other day is probably fine) + L-histidine, but done in a way to lessen HDC and ROS? I think temporary caloric restriction can play a roll here.

Then you could make sure to consume adequate dietary folate so that we know histidine isn't just being excreted.

week 1
NAC + Selenium + cal restriction
to control ROS and downregulate HDC

week 2
NAC + Selenium + cal restriction + L-histidine

week 3
NAC + Selenium + L-histidine + adequate dietary folate

week 4
L-histidine + adequate dietary folate

week 5
stop and evaluate?

 

[mattyb]

Can we think of any side effects that might result of that protocol? Or something in it that might work against itself?

I am thinking the selenium has a risk of upregulating metabolism (thyroid), which will not help us in controlling ROS. But I think with caloric restriction metabolism should stay low enough. Thoughts?

 

[mattyb]

Oh yes, and the caloric restriction will also help us lower B6 for a while. Digestion/DAO shouldn't be impacted with cal restriction since we aren't putting as much pressure on it. Then B6 will go back to normal levels when we increase dietary intake.

 

[Helen]

Too much histidine, too much histamine , and little glutamine? glutamine for intestines.

Why dont you just test this and get it over with. Just test histidine

Im not sure if its about too much histidine. I think its histidine missing because of overactive HDC. As h2o2 increases this 10fold.
yes Glutamate formimminotransferase can be low with folate missing. Low FIGLU + litte histidine could lead to little glutamic acid.

I think with high HDC its complicated because if you lower your histidine, you will have less histamine but less histidine too.
I wonder if mattys thought about overloading with histidine could be worth a try. Maybe with extra NAC.

Maybe that can help clear h2o2 with histidine and after that, HDC will be lower?

HISTOPATHOLOGICAL COMPARISON OF THE EFFECTS
OF HISTIDINE AND KETOTIFEN IN A RAT MODEL OF COLITIS

Decreased Plasma Histidine Level Predicts Risk of Relapse in Patients with Ulcerative Colitis in Remission

Histidine Decarboxylase Deficiency Prevents Autoimmune Diabetes in NOD Mice

That is what I told you at first when I suggested you histidine, Load with histidine.. I wrote this to you a week ago. that many people are using histidine with IBS. Matty said there could be different cases of IBS and I agree with him on this. With no tests or labs this is all guessing anyhow

Low histidine we already discussed. That is possiblity one. I gave you some ideas about high histidine. [mention]mattyb[/mention] Histidine in urine is high in folate deficiency, since histidine is HIGH and body is losing it on purpose. When you give folate , obviously it wont be losing it, since folate will be breaking it down.

Why dont you test histidine

I think zinc finger protocol covers all of this without a chance to cause some deficiencies.

I think histidine folate is the way to go here.

 

[mattyb]

That is what I told you at fist, Load with histidine.. I wrote this to you a week ago. that many people are using histidine with IBS. Matty said there could be different cases of IBS and I agree with him on this. With no tests or labs this is all guessing anyhow

Why dont you test histidine

I think zinc finger protocol covers all of this without a chance to cause some deficiencies.

I think his concern is that his histidine could be artificially low due to hyperactive HDC, so testing it won't be that useful because you can't differentiate between the two conditions (low histidine and normal HDC or normal histidine but hyperactive HDC).

What may be more useful is measuring histidine, histamine, B6, and CBC. That way we get an idea of where his histidine and HDC activity really sit. But realistically all these tests come with issues about accessibility and affordability. He may just have to commit to a protocol and see how it works out.

 

[Helen]

That is what I told you at fist, Load with histidine.. I wrote this to you a week ago. that many people are using histidine with IBS. Matty said there could be different cases of IBS and I agree with him on this. With no tests or labs this is all guessing anyhow

Why dont you test histidine

I think zinc finger protocol covers all of this without a chance to cause some deficiencies.

I think his concern is that his histidine could be artificially low due to hyperactive HDC, so testing it won't be that useful because you can't differentiate between the two conditions (low histidine and normal HDC or normal histidine but hyperactive HDC).

What may be more useful is measuring histidine, histamine, B6, and CBC. That way we get an idea of where his histidine and HDC activity really sit. But realistically all these tests come with issues about accessibility and affordability. He may just have to commit to a protocol and see how it works out.

MAtty , read what I wrote to you about folate and histidine in the previous post.

It makes sense, since when there is low stomach acid, body will be conserving histidine to make histamine. And then when stomach acid goes up, folate goes up, and now you can break down histidine.

This could point to a problem of using methylation protocols . This is how they lower histamine with methylation. You take folate , force the histidine conversions. Boom. then you quit the methylation. And you are SO FUCKED

By the way, check out ZINC FINGER protocol, what do you think?

 

[HerrFisch]

It makes sense, since when there is low stomach acid, body will be conserving histidine to make histamine. And then when stomach acid goes up, folate goes up, and now you can break down histidine.

This could point to a problem of using methylation protocols . This is how they lower histamine with methylation. You take folate , force the histidine conversions. Boom. then you quit the methylation. And you are SO FUCKED

Why "fucked"? Wouldnt you just be left with low stomach acid and high histamine again?

[Is histidine itself a HDC inhibitor? http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00214a009?journalCode=jmcmar]

 

[mattyb]

Why "fucked"? Wouldnt you just be left with low stomach acid and high histamine again?

[Is histidine itself a HDC inhibitor? http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00214a009?journalCode=jmcmar]

Now that is interesting, and it would make sense as that's a very simple negative feedback mechanism for regulating HDC. If that is the case, supping histidine should be very safe.

 

[HerrFisch]

Why "fucked"? Wouldnt you just be left with low stomach acid and high histamine again?

[Is histidine itself a HDC inhibitor? http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00214a009?journalCode=jmcmar]

Now that is interesting, and it would make sense as that's a very simple negative feedback mechanism for regulating HDC. If that is the case, supping histidine should be very safe.

+ Makes sense if histidine lowers h2o2 and h2o2 increases HDC.

 

[Helen]

It makes sense, since when there is low stomach acid, body will be conserving histidine to make histamine. And then when stomach acid goes up, folate goes up, and now you can break down histidine.

This could point to a problem of using methylation protocols . This is how they lower histamine with methylation. You take folate , force the histidine conversions. Boom. then you quit the methylation. And you are SO FUCKED

Why "fucked"? Wouldnt you just be left with low stomach acid and high histamine again?

[Is histidine itself a HDC inhibitor? http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jm00214a009?journalCode=jmcmar]

because you will run low on everything. zinc , bs, you will be stuck with NOTHING> since zinc and b6 are needed for histamine and without stomach acid you wont have those. So you will be stuck with pissing the leftovers of histidine and very low metabolism and low histamine. I would assume this is low 4 scenario on the hairtest.

That is why people who want to restore everything, they need to take zinc, folate, bs, histidine. cysteine, serine and zinc finger protocol. otherwise it wont work. You take histidine, you lower folate. you take folate, you lower histidine, you take zinc, you lower histidine. Screwed all over the place.

 

[Raincoast]

Thought I'd chime in here, Im in my 40's. Early asthma first 2-3 years of life. My childhood alergies morphed into IBS/UC in my adulthood. Since beginning Gbolduev methylation protocol. Using both methyl folate and betaine hcl, digestion has improved. My latest symptoms are now consistent with spondyloarthritis.
I believe all this to be related. I will be starting the complete protocol, and will report results.

 

[Raincoast]

Btw, Im in 4 lows with high copper

 

[HerrFisch]

With histidine as its own inhibitor in a negative feedback, we want normal histidine levels. Is high histidine even possible with high histamine?
Wouldnt that tell us with histamine being used in inflammation, that if histidine is missing, HDC is high to make sure histamine is getting produced? But with missing histidine and ongoing inflammation(ongoing need for histamine), no histidine is left for other use. (wound healing & h2o2 "detox", Glutathione etc)

And this h2o2 leaves the body with lowered SCFA producers esp. butyrate (gut microbiome in general) and therefore low mito fusion and increased mitochondria fission :.: vicious cycle.

SO this reaction that h2o2 increases HDC is probably just inflammation?
And inflammation has a increasing demand for oxygen and nutrients. Especially chronic inflammation.

[And the high lactate initiates angiogenesis (release of factors to bring new blood supply)]

[medication like Sulfasalazine lowers ROS but kicks out folate zinc.]

Without folic acid, the body wont be able to produce methionine. Without methionine no Glutathione and no taurine and cysteine.
Without B12 / deficiency will lead to anemia and high homocystein levels. (As a result of methionine systhase inhibition) -> low oxygen transport. + b12 is needed for hemoglobin (succinyl CoA).

 

[Helen]

With histidine as its own inhibitor in a negative feedback, we want normal histidine levels. Is high histidine even possible with high histamine?
Wouldnt that tell us with histamine being used in inflammation, that if histidine is missing, HDC is high to make sure histamine is getting produced? But with missing histidine and ongoing inflammation(ongoing need for histamine), no histidine is left for other use. (wound healing & h2o2 "detox", Glutathione etc)

And this h2o2 leaves the body with lowered SCFA producers esp. butyrate (gut microbiome in general) and therefore low mito fusion and increased mitochondria fission :.: vicious cycle.

SO this reaction that h2o2 increases HDC is probably just inflammation?
And inflammation has a increasing demand for oxygen and nutrients. Especially chronic inflammation.

[And the high lactate initiates angiogenesis (release of factors to bring new blood supply)]

[medication like Sulfasalazine lowers ROS but kicks out folate zinc.]

Without folic acid, the body wont be able to produce methionine. Without methionine no Glutathione and no taurine and cysteine.
Without B12 / deficiency will lead to anemia and high homocystein levels. (As a result of methionine systhase inhibition) -> low oxygen transport. + b12 is needed for hemoglobin (succinyl CoA).

You got it. No histidine for some reason, and you are missing everything. That is why I outlined the zinc finger protocol. Where you take everything to support this.

No histidine- no folate, no b12, no zinc, no gluthathione, no Metallothionein, no insulin, no geparin and thick blood, no SODs, no calcium.

But I guess you can have high histidine and high histamine as in histidinemia.


But most sick people have low histamines. And very high receptors, thus reacting to histamines in foods. And some of them do better actually by increasing histamines, with histidine ,zinc and b6. LIke that woman practitioner who puts all her clients on histidine zinc b6 for IBS. They have very slow metabolism with zero stomach acid. the internet puts those people ON methylation saying or your methylation is impaired that is why you are not producing glutathione.

The real problem is with serine, aspartic acid and histidine and lack of stomach acid.

Same with diabetes. I cured 2 people from diabetes just giving them diluted HCL. They were all missing histidine. and zinc. That is what insulin is made from.

 

[HerrFisch]

You got it. No histidine for some reason, and you are missing everything. That is why I outlined the zinc finger protocol. Where you take everything to support this.

No histidine- no folate, no b12, no zinc, no gluthathione, no Metallothionein, no insulin, no geparin and thick blood, no SODs, no calcium.

But I guess you can have high histidine and high histamine as in histidinemia.


But most sick people have low histamines. And very high receptors, thus reacting to histamines in foods. They have very slow metabolism with zero stomach acid. the internet puts those people ON methylation saying or your methylation is impaired that is why you are not producing glutathione.

The real problem is with serine, aspartic acid and histidine and lack of stomach acid.

Same with diabetes. I cured 2 people from diabetes just giving them diluted HCL. They were all missing histidine. and zinc. That is what insulin is made from.

What's weird is that I can use up to 40x 650 betain hcl capsules a day. Without burning or anything.

But also I got like no noticable problems on food digestion.

 

[Helen]

I usually gave those people diluted HCL, right on top of the food. About 7grams a pop. After food. diluted in water.

Capsules did not do anything at all. But caused even more irritation in the small intestine

 

[TubZy]

I usually gave those people diluted HCL, right on top of the food. About 7grams a pop. After food. diluted in water.

Capsules did not do anything at all. But caused even more irritation in the small intestine

Doesn't that burn your throat?