Yura log

[TubZy]

I would like to have it on hand if my free copper goes up. But I don't see any GHK without copper in shops where I could buy it + I think I don't want to inject anything anymore in me.. If my copper goes up I will just take whey protein like every 2 hours 20g to provide body all the EAAs + I will take some molybdenum.. For now my serum copper is very low.. I think my adrenals are completely fried. I will keep taking some vit C, B vitamins and keep stimulative foods like fruit and copper from food low as well. That should help the adrenals to get stronger. So I can push and dome some copper again. Now after this failed liver flush I feel really bad. I will no longer do anything that drastic... Would do TUDCA from nutricost as well. I have no bile my liver is fucked..

Peptide Sciences has it but if you dont want to do HMA then you can try EGCG capsules + full spectrum aminos + electrolytes/b vitamins.

The EGCG will help release iron and copper out of tissue and the aminos/minerals/b vitamins etc can help excrete the excess free copper and make it work properly again

 

[Yura]

I know I follow lowtoxinforum and HG7. I have here EGCG life extension bottle, but I will not use it for now. I have to know that my bile os working. Once my elimination pathways are open I thing HTMA program + some HG7 ideas will be very good. For now I need to calm things down. Feel really bad aftet that stupid liveer flush. New crazy spider veins out of nowhere. Feeling like my body is breaking down lice crazy. I am really scared of some big metal dumps. Not sure if my body can handle that oxidative stress anymore..

 

[opiath]

I see you're struggling so I'm gonna give you my own personal experience since I basically had to solve the copper toxicity problem twice.
I'm not pushing anything on you and you should be sceptical about anything you read.
My post here is just to give you my rationalization for my own personal successes and failures in dealing with copper.

My case is very simillar to PFS but not quite. I got sick in 2015 after eating very large amount of stinging nettle.
Beta-sitosterol in nettle and saw palmetto is basically a mild finasteride but I consumed a lot of it.
Copper toxicity was never the root problem for me but it was the biggest consequence.

The first time I almost solved this problem was during the first cycle of this forum in 2018/2019.
What I did back then was I drank Histidine-HCL around 400-500 grams in the span of 2 months and I got the copper skin shedding effect.
Althought I was shedding a lot of copper from my skin I was still very sick until I took manganese for 2 weeks in the end of 2018.
After a few cycles of zinc/manganese by health condition and digestion skyrocketed from 30% to like 70%.
But I was still kinda ignorant about these mechanics back then and basically stopped taking histidine and manganese for 5 years.
My condition didn't improve above that point. It was just very slowly sliding back. I was just enjoying biking, swimming and gaming thinking I was gonna improve naturally after that point.
But I didn't make any improvements for a while and started doing hormonal experiments which brought me nowhere.

Two years ago I stumbled on The Copper Revolution and basically convinced myself I depleted my copper. Stupidest thing I've done lol.
I began taking 10mg copper everyday for like 2-3 months and then a lot of EDTA for chelating zinc. I was feeling very good initially but I fucked myself a bit.
Got inflamed gums, cavities and lost wisdom tooths because of this.

Luckily this year I got my senses back and refilled on zinc and manganese and stepped on the histidine again.
I consumed around 2 kilograms of histidine in the span of 3 months (HCL and base histidine. 1kg of each).
I was taking 3-4 tablespoons of histidine per day and on the 2nd week the copper shedding from the skin started and it lasted for more than 2 months.
Here's a video I made of how it looks like:

I basically went through this shedding multiple hours a days for over 2 months. So much black stuff was coming out of my skin it was insane.
The more I shedded the more my health and digestion improved. It was very bumpy initially because it made me so exhausted every day but its the best thing I've ever done for my health.
Carnosine is useful but you cant rely on it. Your brain is gonna get fucked up with beta-alanine on your 2nd week if this is your only histidine source.

After going through all this if someone tells me bile flow is how the body fixes copper toxicity I'm gonna laugh in his face lol.
With bile you can only get rid of a few milligrams of copper per day. From the skin you can detox more than 10-15mg per day.
And how do you expect to get bile flowing with no histidine and when B6 and folate are offline?
You can't really force it since if you take b6 active and methylfolate they work for a few hours and then you peed them out. Methylation is inhibited on purpose.
The body shuts it down since both of them break down histidine.
B6 makes histamine out of it and folate makes glutamate out of it. SAM-e also breaks down intracellular histamine.
No bile flow in copper toxicity is not a mistake. It is by design to save histidine.

Only after you clear out copper from liver and brain, your body asks for b2, b6 and folic acid and your methylation starts going up and it makes pancreatic enzymes and bile, not before.
Take from this post what you will. As I said I'm not pushing anything, just sharing my story.
The past few months have been the first time in 9 years I don't have to take digestive enzymes with meals and energy is great.

 

[Yura]

Interesting. Does that "black stuff" looks like copper. IT should look like it or not? For example some of my hairs on the body you can just look and you see copper..
The only problem with this bile thing is that I had bile flow when I moved for seasonal job in Croatia and I believe it is stress related. Here home I have stress from family members etc. BUt in Croatia first bowel movement and for the first time like in 15 years healthy dark brown stool easy to pass.. First toilet visit at home and again pale white hard to pass wtf..
Anyways so I shouldn't take methylated B vitamins? I tried histidine back in 2018 but like 1g a day maybe and not for long time.. How do I know this histidine is working? I could try it, but have no idea how much how often? You didn't have any negative reaction from so much histidine? I am scared that I will deplete other amino acids with mega dosing one..
Btw have you done any testing like serum copper/ceruloplasmin? My serum copper is really low.. I wonder how that histidine works? Where it finds all that copper if most of it must be in liver?
Was talking with chat gpt it seems it chelates zinc, iron as well and also taking hgher doses can deplete methionine, B6, folate they are needed for that histidine metabolism..
SO if I take zinc with that histidine it will probably chelate more of that zinc. Especially if my serum copper is low? Maybe I should take bunch of zinc, vit C, manganese and than when it pushes out copper take bunch of histidine?

 

[opiath]

If you want to get a sense of how it chelates copper biomechanically you can take a look at these 4 studies:

Excess dietary histidine decreases the liver copper level and serum alanine aminotransferase activity in Long-Evans Cinnamon rats
PET with 64Cu–Histidine for Noninvasive Diagnosis of Biliary Copper Excretion in Long–Evans Cinnamon Rat Model of Wilson Disease
Dietary L-histidine-induced hypercholesterolemia and hypocupremia in the rat
Exogenous addition of histidine reduces copper availability in the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae

It chelates zinc too but at a much lower rate than copper. And zinc is easy to supplement.
For me the biggest side effect of too much histidine is that it makes me way too aroused.
It takes a lot of willpower to focus on work and other stuff on 30+ grams a day.
Sexual arousal in the brain is based on histamine so that's why this happens.

 

[Yura]

Ok great. I can't find any histidine base. Only 500g bag of L histidine. But I really don't know how to take it with the other stuff like zinc. It doesn't make much sense to take histidine with zinc together.. You know I have to be careful. I have issues from low bioavailable copper already. I really don't want to lower it even more.. Maybe doing some week long cycles for example? week on week off and during that week of take zinc..?

 

[opiath]

I ordered mine from bulksupplements.
They have both histidine base and histine hcl powder.
Can't tell you whats the best approach for you. I'm just sharing what worked for me.
I was taking it 5-6 days a week for 3 months straight and zinc 50mg-100mg once every few days.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Ok great. I can't find any histidine base. Only 500g bag of L histidine. But I really don't know how to take it with the other stuff like zinc. It doesn't make much sense to take histidine with zinc together.. You know I have to be careful. I have issues from low bioavailable copper already. I really don't want to lower it even more.. Maybe doing some week long cycles for example? week on week off and during that week of take zinc..?

your hair test will show whether you are slow or fast oxidizer.
I bet that when you are slow oxi, you have to first take zn/mn (and you will feel bad, beacuse your body have fe and cu deficency and at the same time overabundance in liver and brain) then add l histidine or/and histidine hcl

and the more you sick the more you will feel bad on mn/zn

btw. currently i am 5 day on it, beacuse i have low ceruloplasmin and copper, but first had to cure my gums beacuse mn/zn side effect was worsening this condition

----------------------------

Helen wrote:

Apr 8, 2018

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• #108

Nina said:

They give manganese to slow oxidizer too. And you recommend magnesium “slow oxidizers do better on zinc, magnesium, methylation” is what you said. I see why the copper is bad but why magnesium/manganese?

if zinc is given then you can give manganese if you just give manganese it will kill 3 beta hsd. ARL even gives copper to slow oxidizers but in a certain manner. IMO this slows down their programs a lot. TE never give copper to slow oxidizers. ARL is taking a safer route.

There are tons of different slow oxidizers with low ratio with high ratio. They all need different things. I usually rec manganese and zinc for slow oxidizer. And copper and magnesium for the fast oxidizer. This is not generalization. In general, slow oxidizers need to chelate copper, fast oxidizers need copper.

Slow oxidizers are deficient in bioavailable copper, their ceruloplasmin is low. If you feed them copper, ceruloplasmin will go even LOWER. Low ceruloplasmin shows the body does not need copper at this time. Ceruloplasmin goes up with the thyroid hormone, since copper is used to slow down the thyroid .

this is why in slow oxidation ceruloplasmin will be low, and body will not need much copper or iron, and these metals will build up in the liver, if person overeats.

 

[Yura]

Yes I am slow oxidizer. They were recomending like 80mg zinc, 15manganese, 2,2mg copper in first test. WHere my sodium was ok. I was on T4 meds. I dropped those meds did another hair test year later and my calcium was even higher and sodium tanked. SO they have me same stuff, but more manganese for that low sodium..
Btw what are your symptoms of low copper/ceruloplasmin and what symptoms you feel from taking zinc with manganese how much are you taking?
Anyways yeah that makes sense. But now I don't know what to do heh. I really don't want to wait I think I will try that histidine first like opiath said first. I will slowly increase the dose start with 1g every 3 hours see how I feel.. Slowly increase and once a week no histidne, but some zinc.. Btw I assume that I can take TUDCA. It will be probably even a good idea right..
Btw does L histidine increases histamine? Because my DAO is low for sure due to low bioavailable copper. It seems taking more and more histidine will deplete bioavailable copper more and more? If there is anything left for collagen synthesis I will be fucked completely..

 

[Yura]

"In summary, the present study indicates that excess dietary histidine is effective in reducing the excess Cu accumulation in the liver and stimulates the urinary excretion of Cu in LEC rats. This result offers new possibilities for additional approaches to chelation therapy in patients with Wilson’s disease. However, caution must be exercised as together with the reduction in liver Cu came a massive increase in urinary Zn loss and a reduction in liver Zn. The preliminary results have also shown that excess dietary histidine may have a beneficial effect on the abnormal lipid metabolism in LEC rats."

So I would need probably a lot of extra zinc..

 

[Yura]

Btw I have crazy flush just from 25mg of niacin in B complex. I think I would be sensitive to that histamine from histidine a lot.. Maybe I should try first buy just some small amount. I don't want to have another useless supplement at home lol

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Yes I am slow oxidizer. They were recomending like 80mg zinc, 15manganese, 2,2mg copper in first test. WHere my sodium was ok. I was on T4 meds. I dropped those meds did another hair test year later and my calcium was even higher and sodium tanked. SO they have me same stuff, but more manganese for that low sodium..
Btw what are your symptoms of low copper/ceruloplasmin and what symptoms you feel from taking zinc with manganese how much are you taking?
Anyways yeah that makes sense. But now I don't know what to do heh. I really don't want to wait I think I will try that histidine first like opiath said first. I will slowly increase the dose start with 1g every 3 hours see how I feel.. Slowly increase and once a week no histidne, but some zinc.. Btw I assume that I can take TUDCA. It will be probably even a good idea right..
Btw does L histidine increases histamine? Because my DAO is low for sure due to low bioavailable copper. It seems taking more and more histidine will deplete bioavailable copper more and more? If there is anything left for collagen synthesis I will be fucked completely..

I'am also on t4 meds constatly beacuse i do not have thyroid. My problems started few days after surgery. Maybe beacuse of anesthesia ? Maybe beacuse of infection by bacteria ? I developed headaches and partially empty sella so my pituitary started releasing lh and fsh in normal amounts, and started releasing elevated amounts of acth which increase cortisol and progesterone at the same time. My l5/s1 disc broke, My body composition changed (more fat, lumbar lordosis, widow neck). PMS like syndroms. Erectile problems. Problems with sleep. It all happened few days after surgery and develop. I also had small hernia (no need for surgery). Problem with healing wounds. Gums abscesses. I think this symptoms are also low cerulo/low blood copper levels.

My zn/mn symptoms: as I mentioned, I had to treat myself with antibiotic to treat my gums, beacuse zn/mn were worsening this condition. But while I'm taking it now, I feel a bit dull, but no painful gums, no teeth inflamations. It is not easy but not terrible as it was

In question of histamine: what are your copper levels on hairtest ? My copper lvls on hairtest was also low and copper in blood low and cerlulo low. that's why I wrote that first you should do zn/mn or drink wormwood (this herb elevate copper on my hair test last year). and then add l histidine. last year i took woormwood for abt 1 month and add histidine+ vit c., this gave me a lot of libido and good erections. good vibes. while when i try to take histidine without proper copper levels i feel shitty. thats why I encourage you to chelate first copper with zn/mn for like two-three weeks, maybe four (it wont be nice journey) and then add histidine.

there is also other way to make copper work. pine pollen cycles. helen wrote abt it on raypeat forum in deleted thread. @TubZy can confirm. it kills progesteron, cortisol,dht. upregulate it's receptors. you will slowly feel less energetic while on cycle. after cycle you should feel better. but before starting this it is good to check your prog,cortisol, test,lh,fsh levels. if your prog, cortisol is elevated. you can try it, but eventual side effect might be hair loss while zn/mn stack does not posses this risk.

 

[Yura]

I had low low copper in hair test and always low serum copper. Only one time I saw on blood test copper dump. I had crazy high copper... I feel like I am dying taking copper antagonists that's for sure.. I think taking some histidine should a good idea if it is chelating only free copper not bound to ceruloplasmin.. I really don't want to mess with herbs. I take only artichoke for stimulating digestive juices before meal and garlic to kill bugs.. Can I ask you how much T4 are you taking and what brand when/how are you taking it? I started on 50mcg. Will do blood test soon to see how it looks. I am using some new version of T4 syntroxine in gel caps. Don't know if it is better than letrox or euthyrox. I know euthyrox has mannitol in it and in France they were protesting that it is not working, so they changed the formula in France to the old version, but here in Czech Rep. they use that new version with mannitol.. Hopefully I will fix that thyroid and I will stop using it..

 

[Yura]

Looking at some older posts about histidine omg iti s so complicated
Helen
that is a good question, which I am thinking about.

I have 2 tests, from some folks like Aflac with high copper on the hairtest.

and from someone who is also a slow oxidizer but with low copper on the hairtest.


What I found is that usually folks with high copper have low histidine in blood, means their body is trying to make histamine, but copper breaks it down too fast.

And second people with low copper on hairtest, have very high histidine. I assume those have problems, with cysteine. and b6. most likely gaba overexpression. causing prolactin release .


this is why TEI actually gives some slow oxidizers copper. May be they know this

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Looking at some older posts about histidine omg iti s so complicated
Helen
that is a good question, which I am thinking about.

I have 2 tests, from some folks like Aflac with high copper on the hairtest.

and from someone who is also a slow oxidizer but with low copper on the hairtest.


What I found is that usually folks with high copper have low histidine in blood, means their body is trying to make histamine, but copper breaks it down too fast.

And second people with low copper on hairtest, have very high histidine. I assume those have problems, with cysteine. and b6. most likely gaba overexpression. causing prolactin release .


this is why TEI actually gives some slow oxidizers copper. May be they know this

1.Mate I do not have thyroid ! My dosage is completlly dfiffrent than yours. We are not comparable.
2.Low cu on hairtest = high histidine. You see, that's what I also wrote. First You have to move a bit of cu from your liver and brain by some chelators, fo example zn/mn and then add histidine

 

[dpal]

your hair test will show whether you are slow or fast oxidizer.
I bet that when you are slow oxi, you have to first take zn/mn (and you will feel bad, beacuse your body have fe and cu deficency and at the same time overabundance in liver and brain) then add l histidine or/and histidine hcl

and the more you sick the more you will feel bad on mn/zn

btw. currently i am 5 day on it, beacuse i have low ceruloplasmin and copper, but first had to cure my gums beacuse mn/zn side effect was worsening this condition

----------------------------

Helen wrote:

Apr 8, 2018

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• #108

if zinc is given then you can give manganese if you just give manganese it will kill 3 beta hsd. ARL even gives copper to slow oxidizers but in a certain manner. IMO this slows down their programs a lot. TE never give copper to slow oxidizers. ARL is taking a safer route.

There are tons of different slow oxidizers with low ratio with high ratio. They all need different things. I usually rec manganese and zinc for slow oxidizer. And copper and magnesium for the fast oxidizer. This is not generalization. In general, slow oxidizers need to chelate copper, fast oxidizers need copper.

Slow oxidizers are deficient in bioavailable copper, their ceruloplasmin is low. If you feed them copper, ceruloplasmin will go even LOWER. Low ceruloplasmin shows the body does not need copper at this time. Ceruloplasmin goes up with the thyroid hormone, since copper is used to slow down the thyroid .

this is why in slow oxidation ceruloplasmin will be low, and body will not need much copper or iron, and these metals will build up in the liver, if person overeats.

Yes I am slow oxidizer. They were recomending like 80mg zinc, 15manganese, 2,2mg copper in first test. WHere my sodium was ok. I was on T4 meds. I dropped those meds did another hair test year later and my calcium was even higher and sodium tanked. SO they have me same stuff, but more manganese for that low sodium..
Btw what are your symptoms of low copper/ceruloplasmin and what symptoms you feel from taking zinc with manganese how much are you taking?
Anyways yeah that makes sense. But now I don't know what to do heh. I really don't want to wait I think I will try that histidine first like opiath said first. I will slowly increase the dose start with 1g every 3 hours see how I feel.. Slowly increase and once a week no histidne, but some zinc.. Btw I assume that I can take TUDCA. It will be probably even a good idea right..
Btw does L histidine increases histamine? Because my DAO is low for sure due to low bioavailable copper. It seems taking more and more histidine will deplete bioavailable copper more and more? If there is anything left for collagen synthesis I will be fucked completely..

We all sound very similar. I havent found guys who are so similar on any forum, no lowtoxinforum/raypeatforum anything.

I have also very low ceruloplasmin and copper for years, very deficient. I have a history of taking 100mg of zinc per day and like 20g of ascorbic acid a day when I was a teenager. Then I stopped, ate a bunch peat shit, lots of sugar, milk etc. Then started with p5p got very ripped but eventually crashed. Had the lowest copper reading and ceruloplasmin reading ever. I was still convinced I was paradoxically copper toxic and tried getting it out with zinc again, b6, p5p, manganese, folic acid all that shit. All the b vitamins. Tried all combinations of forms, dosages and all but my copper never budged really and ceruloplasmin still low. I also have extremely low cholesterol.

I feel very stressed on a daily basis, could never tolerate anything like thyroid, am dependant on coffee to get out of bed but get massive adrenaline. But its like without it I cant function. I need the shot of adrenaline otherwise I am a zombie. After taking zinc for months and years, I even had zinc toxicity on my blood test, even lower testosterone and was/am in the worst shape of my life. I was actually always very skinny, now I am skinny fat. Doesnt make any sense. If I take zinc, I maybe feel good for a moment, but I basically get anemic, autistic, my whole body feels heavy and then I wake up in the morning like I was beaten alll night and run over by a truck. Cant move. Cant work. Nothing. Also feels like it stops my breathing or something. Manganese feels estrogenic for me and I just get very sad. Completely lowers my dopa and feels like it increases prolactin a lot.

I posted a lot about this also on lowtoxinforum under username deadpool for anyone who is interested to check out more labs and stuff. I could post them here also.
I dont know about the histidine thing honestly. At this point I am tired of trying to antagonize copper further. Maybe its just time to load up on it. I also saw so many good results with GHK-CU peptite like healing skin, stretch marks etc. Coincidentally I aged a lot and got stretch marks since antagonizing copper. And its not about zinc pushing copper out. Because I actually feel dead on zinc. I also tried taking chelators like molybdenum. I tried taking it with p5p. P5P was the main shit that got me very ripped oriignally but it just lost its efffectiveness. Maybe after all, its not about copper being pushed out but by that point I actually depleted it leading to my 50 blood level of copper and 13 ceruloplasmin. IDK anymore.

Anybody got tested for wilsons ? Because this could explain something but its not easy to get tested here.

There is a lot I could write about this topic. Like Yura I also benefitted like crazy form a vacation in croatia last year. Felt soooo much better and didnt take any supps. I am also starting to think its more like an adrenal issue where the adrenals are so stressed pumping out stuff constantly, and they are not strong enough and calm enough to produce ceruloplasmin and deal with the copper. And taking all these supps just makes it worse. Pushes the adrenals even more. Thats how zinc, p5p everything feels these days. I also have high DHEA-S for years. Low cerulo, low copper, high dhea-s, very very low cholesterol. These are the blood markers that define me for years and dont change. Maybe someone can make connections with this.

 

[dpal]

Dietary L-histidine-induced hypercholesterolemia and hypocupremia in the rat - PubMed

This study could support the hidden copper toxicity theory.

Especially if I connect it to my case, according to the study, copper is anti cholesterol, even lowering the hypercholesterolemia that was caused by histidine. And histidine is pro cholesterol in plasma and anti tissue cholesterol and copper.

So yeah I guess copper is stuck in tissues. Maybe zinc / mang all that stuff is really just antagonizing the copper and not getting it out of tissues so histidine is needed like @opiath is saying.

 

[Yura]

@dpal hi I am very similar. But I have high cholesterol from low bioavailable copper.. I wish I did blood tests before I crashed and I retained shit loads of fluids. THat was the time I was fast oxidizer with sky high sodium for sure and high ceruloplasmin and copper. But down the road as I crashed ceruloplasmin, aldosterone everything tanked..
I think nutritional balancing is right about the stuff on copper/adrenals for sure.. You used coffee to feel alive. I used crazy exercise with bike riding to feel alive. THat feels great in the moment, but completely depletes your body and after that you feel even worse. That is actually Gbolduev/Helen approach to force exercise, but it doesn't work. You are making things better short term, but digging deeper grave for yourself in a meantime.. We need to restore all the cofactors needed so the body is strong to make that ceruloplasmin again, but it is hard to do for the body when there is more and more copper in the tissues, more and more pathogens from lack of that bioavailable copper. The body can't no longer handle more oxidative stress etc.. So it is literally dying. The body is shutting down everything, pathogens take over. YOu can't handle any stress anymore= you can't improve your situation like work, move to different place whatever+ you see how your body is breaking down that alone makes you stressing even more. SO hard to somehow break this cycle..

We know that people talk about the stages of burnout of the body/adrenals and I think this chelation of copper works great for people who are still in fast oxidizer state with high sodium and potassium and ceruloplasmin.. But in that last stage where everything is low maybe expect that calcium shell it is hard to do anything. It seems like the body would need everything to build up again, but at the same time the body can't handle it anymore..
I do wonder if vitamin A really is needed for ceruloplasmin synthetsis. I am on low vit A like 7 years now. Will do blood test next week. If that number is very low or even deficient I think should try some liver..
The fucked up part is that we know our adrenals and the body is depleted. So i would make sense to see what is depleted while you are under stress and just tak that. But ironically exactly those micronutrients makes everything just worse..
Maybe my histidine is low who knows. Never did testing for amino acids.. I have some TUDCA coming as well. hopefully it will help the liver a bit to deal with all that stress..

But this whole copper think where you see low serum all the time so your brain is telling you eat copper, but when you do you get worse, but when you chelate it you get worse. I mean I am so tired of this shit.
I was eating a lot of copper, zinc and iron from potatoes, sea food and meats in Croatia and that salt water made me well hydrated. I was soaking up all that sodium and minerals from the sea. My skin looked great. Now I am dehydrated and my skin looks like I am 105yo it is insane. I wish I tried to go somewhere on longer vacation 6 months ago when before I sped so much money on stupid supplements that didn't help at all. Now I am stack with no money and no health again lol.. But I ordered that histidine will see if it kills me or what haha

But really what I was not able to do is what nutritional balancing people recommend. Which is completely calm down adrenals. With zero stress and with stuff like zero stimulant, zero exercise, zero sugar, low copper diet.. SO you feel like death. You can barely function. So you live like dying person with end stage cancer or something.. But that is exactly what the body needs to get stronger and when it gets stronger it will start to dump copper and that is the time to take more histidine etc.. But to not do all this, to stay in the stress and just take chelators it doesn't work..
I think that is the only thing that will work for me really. To say family look I can't do anything anymore. Stop stressing me out about stuff. I need 6 months of doing nothing, but doing nutritional balancing program to the tee... I think that is last chance for me. To borrow money and really disappear to some warm place where my body doesn't feel stressed and where I can let my body to rest.. Because like I said I really did tried Helen approach pushing insane exercise while in burnout and it did the exact opposite of what I want..

 

[Yura]

@dpal btw I am reading your post again. What makes you think that you have hidden copper toxicity instead of just copper deficiency from taking antagonists all the time? Did you ever push high copper intake with beef liver etc.? Do you have thyroid blood panel done? Without thyroid and adrenals ceruloplasmin will not go up. But if you are really deficient it will not go up even with good thyroid and adrenals.. Like what is your average intake of copper daily and how often how much copper antagonists are you taking? I think realy deficiency of copper without supplements on normal diet with grains etc. is impossible, but if you take some zinc, high dose vit C etc. all the time you ca be easily deficient.. Do you feel better if you try stuff liek cashews, buckwheat, mushrooms or beef liver for example or sea food like octopus, calamari?

 

[RebelWithACause]

I feel better from copper now but used to take a shitload of anti copper things overdoing it. Feels like low estrogen and you get irritated and feel weird kinda. Also feels like low serotonin a bit I think. Copper is important but yea we all knew that kinda, you can get blinded by this stuff going too crazy to the other side. Without copper feels like you have no androgens. Since estrogen signalling is influenced by copper and that influences the strength effect of androgens too.