Yura log

[dpal]

@dpal btw I am reading your post again. What makes you think that you have hidden copper toxicity instead of just copper deficiency from taking antagonists all the time? Did you ever push high copper intake with beef liver etc.? Do you have thyroid blood panel done? Without thyroid and adrenals ceruloplasmin will not go up. But if you are really deficient it will not go up even with good thyroid and adrenals.. Like what is your average intake of copper daily and how often how much copper antagonists are you taking? I think realy deficiency of copper without supplements on normal diet with grains etc. is impossible, but if you take some zinc, high dose vit C etc. all the time you ca be easily deficient.. Do you feel better if you try stuff liek cashews, buckwheat, mushrooms or beef liver for example or sea food like octopus, calamari?

Yo, like I said I am not sure about the hidden copper toxicity. I used to believe it when I got into it at first but now I am not. However, I cant handle any supplemental copper or dietary copper I think because of the low cerulo.

In terms of thyroid, since I am 18 and discovered Ray Peat for like 10 years I had top of the line t3 and t4, and tsh around 1. In fact if I tried just 1/4th of a nibble of NDT I would get a panic attack. I feel much more hyper with peats recommendations and stuff. Then I consulted with Danny Roddy like 10 years ago and he showed me that I have the lowest cholesterol he had ever seen at 80. With that kind of cholesterol you cant tolerate any thyroid. It just lowers it too fast.

All this actually makes me think I am lacking vit A. I never had excess consumption with beef liver but I used to eat dairy all my life in my teenage years. I never went fully low A because thats when I completely feel like 0 androgens, but on my blood test I also had low A. In fact when I supplemented vit A I felt very androgenic, only problem was a feeling of lack of bile flow and dandruff. But erections were insane.
So maybe it is just deficiency. Like you, I also when I was in croatia could eat anything and with the combo of sea water and sun I was feeling very good. Didnt matter if I ate copper or zinc.

But I can relate to what you say in your previous post, I am also tired of this shit. Both antagonizing it and supplementing/eating copper feels like trash and everything actually feels like trash. Like you I also used to exercise heavily up until 3 years ago when I crashed and since then I feel like I can barely move.

I believe a lot of the people with copper toxicity actually have like you say at least ceruloplasmin so its easier for them to chelate stuff and not get overwhelmed. I am also unsure if vit A is related to cerulo but at least chatgpt tells me its important and facebook groups. Its mostly the anti A guys who scare you away, when mainstream says vit A is crucial for cerulo synthesis. I also just think good adrenals in general make cerulo, since I remember reading in Ray Peats book how cortisol/acetylcholine and stress destroys cerulo.

 

[dpal]

you were taking zn without mn, thats why you have issues. helen wrote abt it 22018. @opiath wrote abt it few posts earlier

Yo, I agree I took zn without mang when I was a teen, but the last 3 years like I said I experimented extensively with the combo and mang is super estrogenic, dopamine lowering, prolactin increasing.
I was so hyped about mang because it is one of the only nutrients that is implicated in low cholesterol. But it just doesnt work for me and feels like kills all bile flow. After everything I read about mang, I truly think its very easy to get toxic in it too. I am also sure it raises prolactin. A few years ago after "peating" with basically sugar, orange juice, milk type shit, I had incrediebly high prolactin. That shit got fixed with p5p and zinc. I honestly think I was mang toxic in tissues back then because I get similar symptoms taking it now.

 

[dpal]

Well that's interesting so you just supplemented by feel lol. How is testing blood useless. You see if you have low/high free copper, low/high ceruloplasmin or hair test if you are slow or fast oxidizer.. I mean how could you know what is really going on just by feel.. I am not attacking you. I am just curious.. But from looking at your hand in the video you look healthy. You probably could do a lot of dump shit and still be ok. Not case for people like me. I do another dumb shit and I am done. So I can't go by feel only..

I also think about this. Too many people going by feeling. I am not dismissing hair tests, but seeing stuff on blood consistently like truly deficient copper and ceruloplasmin, flagged as red with notice to check out for wilsons, or chronically high dhea-s or low af cholesterol, it gives you an idea. It shouldnt be ignored. In over/undermethylation practitioners like Walsh and Mensah, they only look at blood and not hair for copper and stuff, and they usually in 99% of cases see high af copper in blood. For these people I think chelation works well, if you have low cerulo and low copper, the stuff gets complicated. I still think there might be copper in tissues but the body just doesnt want or cant use it.

 

[bruschi11]

I also think about this. Too many people going by feeling. I am not dismissing hair tests, but seeing stuff on blood consistently like truly deficient copper and ceruloplasmin, flagged as red with notice to check out for wilsons, or chronically high dhea-s or low af cholesterol, it gives you an idea. It shouldnt be ignored. In over/undermethylation practitioners like Walsh and Mensah, they only look at blood and not hair for copper and stuff, and they usually in 99% of cases see high af copper in blood. For these people I think chelation works well, if you have low cerulo and low copper, the stuff gets complicated. I still think there might be copper in tissues but the body just doesnt want or cant use it.

Yea the low copper makes things complicated. It just does. And when iron drops with it. Ferritin. Which I think just helps retain copper— you have real issues.

This is when I got severe when I started developing iron and copper deficiencies.

 

[Ingeno]

Think Im gonna try manganese+ zinc again, but probably keep zinc on the low side. What if zinc causes anxiety? And didnt you get anxiety from the high dose histidine?

Manganese deficiency is fixable in 1-2 months since the body only stores around 20mg of it.
Absorption for it is really low 1-5% so if you take a 10mg tablet you're only going to absorb like 500mcg.
It's really hard to get toxic in it since your bile can excrete multiple times what you can absorb in one day.
Feeling bad when you take it initially if you are deficient is because it shifts your pH balance hard by affecting acetylcholine breakdown.
This makes your body need zinc and other vitamins to maintain pH equilibrium.

Zinc kills emotions primarily by inhibiting GABA-A receptor in the brain which leads to all kind of compensations.
If you get to that point you don't need more zinc currently.
The way to fix GABA so the body allows more zinc is to make b6 active.
But you can't make b6 active if you're copper toxic since the body inhibits it to spare histidine.
Taking more zinc in a histidine deficient state makes you worse because the body now has to use an amino acid which is already bottlenecked to get rid of zinc.

So the best priority list for me was:
take manganese + zinc till manganese is repleted -> take histidine until copper comes down (may take months depending on dosage and levels in the body) -> when copper comes down more b6 and folate are needed so histamine and methylation go up which jumpstarts digestion -> you can take a bit more zinc again since b6 is active now

 

[Yura]

dpal I really think that your goal should be stop all stimulants and letting your body really rest and relax.. Like nutritional balancing is recommending.. Zero stimulants in any form not even TV shows, music, social media, no sugar or even fruits, coffee no exercise apart from easy walking, swimming... Diet Just complex carbs, cooked veggies, animal protein. Perfect sleep routine. I think that is what it takes to recover for some people. But not many people can do it. So they push push and push the body. The body can't keep up with dealing with the old stuff and the new stress that is coming in at the same time. So there never will be deep healing.. How Gbolduev/Helen healed. He was relaxing in Cyprus(btw did you know Cyprus is name for copper in latin? They were mining copper there and what is crazy is that the name of the island cyprus gave the metal name cuprum not the other way around hehe.. I was thinking can you imagine you go to Cyprus to recover from copper toxicity and you just google that cyprus gave the cuprum its name because there are largest deposits of copper? It would give heart attach hahahahah..
Anyways rich people do that all the time. They burn out and just go disappear somewhere in the caribbean on a yacht for half a year and just recover from crazy abuse they give their body heh..
Average people go for 10 day vacation that is not enough time for the body..

 

[RebelWithACause]

Pretty sure he lifted some weights (he said he went to the gym and transformed after fasting his buddies in the gym there were surprised) and swam kilometers in the sea. No way he just didn't do anything and relax. He was against that he said. Just like old people they do less and less as their metabolism goes down and it never lifts up again.

Fasting is opposite of rest in my opinion. Rest from digestion maybe but increases stress and usage of nutrients a lot. And he fasted like a mad man. Way more than I have seen people do here on average.

Most of those people who burn out and relax 24/7 they never lift their metabolism at all, that's just how they are the rest of their lives

But I think if you are deficient and you keep using stims yes you won't fix anything. It's like keeping yourself artificially higher eventhough the body needs more nutrients (and rest puts less pressure on those nutrients)

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Yo, I agree I took zn without mang when I was a teen, but the last 3 years like I said I experimented extensively with the combo and mang is super estrogenic, dopamine lowering, prolactin increasing.
I was so hyped about mang because it is one of the only nutrients that is implicated in low cholesterol. But it just doesnt work for me and feels like kills all bile flow. After everything I read about mang, I truly think its very easy to get toxic in it too. I am also sure it raises prolactin. A few years ago after "peating" with basically sugar, orange juice, milk type shit, I had incrediebly high prolactin. That shit got fixed with p5p and zinc. I honestly think I was mang toxic in tissues back then because I get similar symptoms taking it now.

thats why you take zn/mn togheter. this combo works when it is taken togheter. separately they have different action

 

[ruprmurdoch]

as

Think Im gonna try manganese+ zinc again, but probably keep zinc on the low side. What if zinc causes anxiety? And didnt you get anxiety from the high dose histidine?

helen wrote, at first you will have anxiety. but after each cycle your anexiety will be lower

 

[dpal]

dpal I really think that your goal should be stop all stimulants and letting your body really rest and relax.. Like nutritional balancing is recommending.. Zero stimulants in any form not even TV shows, music, social media, no sugar or even fruits, coffee no exercise apart from easy walking, swimming... Diet Just complex carbs, cooked veggies, animal protein. Perfect sleep routine. I think that is what it takes to recover for some people. But not many people can do it. So they push push and push the body. The body can't keep up with dealing with the old stuff and the new stress that is coming in at the same time. So there never will be deep healing.. How Gbolduev/Helen healed. He was relaxing in Cyprus(btw did you know Cyprus is name for copper in latin? They were mining copper there and what is crazy is that the name of the island cyprus gave the metal name cuprum not the other way around hehe.. I was thinking can you imagine you go to Cyprus to recover from copper toxicity and you just google that cyprus gave the cuprum its name because there are largest deposits of copper? It would give heart attach hahahahah..
Anyways rich people do that all the time. They burn out and just go disappear somewhere in the caribbean on a yacht for half a year and just recover from crazy abuse they give their body heh..
Average people go for 10 day vacation that is not enough time for the body..

Ye for real. this is basically how I fixed myself 3-4 years ago when I was 24 and completely burned out. I was coming from a state of 10 years trying everything, sleeplessness nights, overworking, pushing even when I couldnt, going to work after crazy insomnia and not sleeping all night, working out 6 days a week, relying on sugar, caffeine all that and then abusing p5p.

I couldnt do anything anymore. I started breaking done. for the first time I started calling sick at work, not working on my business, not going to the gym, I couldnt do shit. I got fired, stopped working, stopped relying on any supps, caffeine, sugar, basically kinda fasted at first, then just really ate only a little, had 0 cravings, 0 spice, felt depersonalized for like 3 months. And then I just somehow got so much energy and strenght back.

But that is the thing. I was still feeling depersonalized in a way. And 0 spice in my head. In a way like just the copper was moving in the storage and the calcium shell was building and making me numb. Thats when I went with a practitioner, did all the copper values and found out that after 9 months of not taking anything and resting, my copper was at 50 and my cerulo at 13. So still crazy low. Lowest ever actually. Then after that I started again with the trying to increase histamine with b vitamins, zinc all that shit and in a way I got some spice and personality back but I also went into stress.

I basically have two ways this can go IMO.

One is the low stress way. Like you say. You give your adrenals time and they recover. But it is very fucking hard and I dont know if it actually fixes anything deep down or you just become super stress resiliant.

The other is for example my reaction to histidine. Even though I was feeling low stress these days, I took histidine 2g today to see. I am becoming very stimulated. Now this could just be stress, this can also be copper being pushed out and now I need crazy zinc or something to calm me down. Without histidine, maybe zinc for real just crushes copper in the blood but tissues are still saturated. But the reason I am skeptical is because I am pretty much running around chasing this puzzle for years like this.

Another option, recently I took pregenenolone. I had a crazy anti stress effect. Since I have low cholesterol and preg is made from cholesterol, and apparently my whole production is being fueled for cortisol, stress, dhea-s, I thought mayb preg would help. I was feeling very low stress, androgenic, but it was so hard to cum with my girlfriend lol. Almost like I didnt feel anything in my dick anymore. But I could see it being pro adrenals, pro strength, pro androgens, cholesterol all that stuff and then eventually ceruloplasmin comes back online. Maybe ...

 

[Ingeno]

Just took 8mg manganese and 6mg zinc, feeling apathic and depressed as fuck.

Also increased scalp itch somewhat.

 

[Yura]

@RebelWithACause Yes he had physical stress that he could adjust as he needs. We are build for physical stress, but not any other type of chronic stress especially mental.. I had crazy physical stress in Croatia during that summer job. I was walking and swimming whole day + crazy hard 8 hour job in the kitchen. But zero mental stress and it showed..
But I was talking about adrenal burnout. Gbolduev was never in that state. Because in adrenal burnout you have low cortisol, low aldosterone You can't handle even crazy small amount of stress. You can't fast even for 6 hours let alone for a day or weeks. That's why everybody recommends 4-6 smaller meals a day to keep blood sugar stable. If you in that state you can barely walk because your blood pressure is also low. Let
alone exercise. In that state you have two choices. Leave the body alone to crash and recover slowly or keep pushing the body with stimulants until you just drop dead.

@dpal yes if there is crazy imbalance rest itself will not fix it. but it will help give you more energy to deal with it. So you still have to do something for sure..
I wouldn't take any hormones. I agree with Gbolduev 100% about this. You are just creating more and more imbalances.

 

[esp90]

Just took 8mg manganese and 6mg zinc, feeling apathic and depressed as fuck.

Also increased scalp itch somewhat.

I remember you and me had similar hairtest, we were both four lows. I did tei for one cycle and got benefits but stopped cause hair loss got out of line. You had Temple loss too i remember? Did it stop eventually? I did another hair test last year after no hairtest for 6 years. This time i had high calcium (calcium shell) just like you seem to have on one test.

If you stayed on the program for 1.5 years without improvement there must be som stressor thats causing you not to improve? Is your life stressful? Do you stay up late? Do you ejaculate frequently? These two things will stop healing like nothing else, and I love to stay up late in the mornings and used to have a porn addiction. Im abstaining now and going to bed somewhat early and going to start TEI and see what happens. Im not gonna care about the hairloss this time. If I go bald so be it

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Just took 8mg manganese and 6mg zinc, feeling apathic and depressed as fuck.

Also increased scalp itch somewhat.

if you are slow oxidizer - this should work
but helen mention that dosage for zn should be higher than mn. so you should do 8mg zn and 6mg mn

 

[Yura]

Taking zinc with manganese at the same time doesn't make much sense they compete for absorption. I really like this website often looking in it what is antgonist, synergist.. Iron Manganese DRI/RDA, benefits, side effects, overdose, toxicity, requirements
THere is also info where they talk about how chromium is first element that should be looked at while fixing copper imbalance.. Not many people mention chromium at all..

 

[Yura]

I remember you and me had similar hairtest, we were both four lows. I did tei for one cycle and got benefits but stopped cause hair loss got out of line. You had Temple loss too i remember? Did it stop eventually? I did another hair test last year after no hairtest for 6 years. This time i had high calcium (calcium shell) just like you seem to have on one test.

If you stayed on the program for 1.5 years without improvement there must be som stressor thats causing you not to improve? Is your life stressful? Do you stay up late? Do you ejaculate frequently? These two things will stop healing like nothing else, and I love to stay up late in the mornings and used to have a porn addiction. Im abstaining now and going to bed somewhat early and going to start TEI and see what happens. Im not gonna care about the hairloss this time. If I go bald so be it

I feel more and more that hair test is good to show you general direction like if you are slow or fast and if something is really off, but they don't know everything and so I think it is good to listen to your body as well. and adjust on the go. I think I am right when I say there are many people who fixed their issues while doing hair test for more info, but doing their stuff and vise versa people who did ARL/TEI protocol like robots and ruined their health... I think if you are losing your hair it is good sign that your body can't keep up. Maybe all you should do is just reduce the amounts to 50% or something like that, but keep everything the same.. Or for example when you know you are having high stress period for some reason, just stopping completely for a while etc.. That seems like more reasonable.. That's why good practitioner is probably good idea. Who can look at your hair test, ideally other tests for more info + what are you saying to him and so he can adjust as needed.. But who is good practitioner.. Honestly from what I watch on youtube and stuff most of them just know the basic stuff around HTMA principles, but not many of them are black belts in biochemistry or have really good knowledge on nutrition etc..

 

[esp90]

I feel more and more that hair test is good to show you general direction like if you are slow or fast and if something is really off, but they don't know everything and so I think it is good to listen to your body as well. and adjust on the go. I think I am right when I say there are many people who fixed their issues while doing hair test for more info, but doing their stuff and vise versa people who did ARL/TEI protocol like robots and ruined their health... I think if you are losing your hair it is good sign that your body can't keep up. Maybe all you should do is just reduce the amounts to 50% or something like that, but keep everything the same.. Or for example when you know you are having high stress period for some reason, just stopping completely for a while etc.. That seems like more reasonable.. That's why good practitioner is probably good idea. Who can look at your hair test, ideally other tests for more info + what are you saying to him and so he can adjust as needed.. But who is good practitioner.. Honestly from what I watch on youtube and stuff most of them just know the basic stuff around HTMA principles, but not many of them are black belts in biochemistry or have really good knowledge on nutrition etc..

I actually got good results from following it minus the hairloss ofc. I remember Helen said his hair came and went while on TEI and not to bother looking at it. But i think lifestyle is so important. To stay away from things that cause unnecessary stress for your nervous system. And maybe the hairloss i got from TEI is just a sign my hormones were getting more balanced. Im beggining to think maybe I got PFS without ever taking it, i have taken st johnsworth and saw palmetto, these can apparently have simialar effects. Maybe thats what made me keep my hair this long. My grandfather was bald by 25 and im 35 and you cant even tell im losing it still unless i show my hairline. Maybe as I get more balances and my 5-ar gets upregulated i will lose my hair but i will finally feel like a man, and get motivation to take action in my life, because right now that feels impossible. I dont the will/energy or even capability to change my life, its feels as if thats like lifting a huge stone which is impossible for me to Lift. But i remember getting motivation while being on TEI, atleast i moved out of my mothers house and got a place for myself, that was a huge step. And is it a coincidence that it happened during a TEI cycle? (My one and only cycle) Maybe, but maybe not.

 

[Yura]

" atleast i moved out of my mothers house and got a place for myself, that was a huge step. And is it a coincidence that it happened during a TEI cycle? (My one and only cycle) Maybe, but maybe not."
THat's great. I am 39 almost and living with parents. and that is actually the biggest source of stress for me. This vicious circle I am stressed out of my mind from living with my parents and having another 3 apartments with my family members in the same buidling. But I can't have my own place if I can't have full time job and I can't have full time job if I simply can't handle it physically. I work for some time and crash. Because most of the jobs I can do is hard manual labor.. I save up all my money so I can spend them when I crash and I can.'t work. I love my life..

 

[esp90]

" atleast i moved out of my mothers house and got a place for myself, that was a huge step. And is it a coincidence that it happened during a TEI cycle? (My one and only cycle) Maybe, but maybe not."
THat's great. I am 39 almost and living with parents. and that is actually the biggest source of stress for me. This vicious circle I am stressed out of my mind from living with my parents and having another 3 apartments with my family members in the same buidling. But I can't have my own place if I can't have full time job and I can't have full time job if I simply can't handle it physically. I work for some time and crash. Because most of the jobs I can do is hard manual labor.. I save up all my money so I can spend them when I crash and I can.'t work. I love my life..

If im not mistaken i believe our hairtest were pretty similar. Calcium shells right? Would love to know how your health problems started? Did you take fin?

 

[Yura]

I said it 100 times in this log already. It is complicated. But the last straw were stupid poorly designed steroid cycles.. I never took fin, but I took all kinds of stuff from accutane, saw palmetto to steroids even trenbolon for example.. I also was eating shit loads of vit A in all forms. SO I wonder how much that calcium shell was from vit A as well. Will find out next hair test since I am on low vit A diet for 7 years now..