ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[TubZy]

Hi, so just wanted to do an updated after two weeks of experimenting with this idea so far.

What I found was that histidine and cysteine puts my libido, digestion, erections back to normal. I take 250mg of each twice a day, but went up to 500mg of each once a day too. I tried multiple other options like adding in zinc and copper with it and it completely destroys most of the benefits from it. So I still can't handle zinc or copper yet. Histidine increases zinc uptake to tissue so I'm just letting it naturally do the work through foods.

The only thing that didn't get fully resolved is my energy levels and still have some water retention in my face. So I think it is cortisol related because when I take RU it completely fixes that part since it blocks cortisol. I talked to Gbol extensively about this and he thinks as histidine increases stomach acid and gets zinc back into tissue again this will get cortisol sensitive again. Same goes with taking small amounts of HCL.

I highly suggest anyone reading this thread to try or start with 250mg of hisitidine HCL and cysteine HCL taken together. Make sure you get the HCL form of the aminos though so they absorb. If you don't notice anything up it to 500mg of each taken together once a day. This has worked for many people so far that I talked to in private here so far.

My next step is to start brewers yeast with HCL along the hisitidine and cysteine I'm already taking. Goal is leverage the zinc and B vitamins along with the aminos in the brewers yeast to start replenishing mineral store quicker now since digestion seems to back in order pretty well.

I'm not doing the FULL protocol yet (I haven't added in serine, aspartic acid and the other aminos or the liquid electrolytes). I was planning to just use the brewers yeast for the remaining aminos or just get the amino acid supplement I posted on the previous page. I toyed with beta alanine once with histidine, but haven't taken it enough to really draw any conclusion yet.

I also did test histidine by itself up to 3 grams (mentioned it in one of the pages in this thread) and did not get the same benefits when it was used soley alone. When I added in cysteine felt much much better (so cysteine does have influence)

Other things I noticed:

• hair is growing much fast all over
• hair growing darker/thicker looking
• skin looks better
• wake up with rock erection every morning, intense orgasms and big loads
• decrease in brain fog, much better focus
• muscles more full (not sure if this is directly related to the aminos or just from my digestion/metabolism getting fully back to normal TBH)

So in conclusion for anyone that wants to try (this is the starter/ghetto version):

• 250mg (or 500mg) histidine HCL
• 250mg (or 500mg) cysteine HCL
• 250mg - 500mg betaine HCL with each meal (technically optional) to absorb vitamins/minerals better and retain them quicker. Dissolve in water -not capsule
• zinc/copper but do NOT start with this as it will castrate you or reduce benefits, stick to brewers yeast if you really want to use something right away
• full amino acid supplement (optional/experimental)
• brewers yeast for minerals and B vitamins since histidine will increase stomach acid (1 tsp - 2 tablespoon daily)
• liquid electrolytes supplement (haven't tried)

Histidine and zinc

http://encognitive.com/files/Histidine-GLA-Zinc Complex to Block Pain & Inflammation in Treatment-resistant Sydromes_0.pdf

 

[TubZy]

What do you guys think of this ingredient profile? Good?

EAA Powder Ingredients
Ingredients Per Scoop
Medicinal Ingredients (per scoop):
L-Leucine ........................ 1824 Milligrams
L-Lysine ......................... 3000 Milligrams
L-Valine ......................... 1194 Milligrams
L-Threonine ....................... 301 Milligrams
L-Isoleucine ..................... 1065 Milligrams
L-Methionine ..................... 1000 Milligrams
L-Phenylalanine ................... 339 Milligrams
L-Histidine ....................... 220 Milligrams
L-Tryptophan ...................... 220 Milligrams
Non-Medicinal Ingredients: Lecithin.

Not sure if you saw the one I posted on the previous page. I talked to Gbol about it he said it looks good but he doesn't know (he never tried it) but all the forms look solid. So I was thinking about trying that one.

Yours is missing the non essential aminos (aspartic acid, alanine, serine etc.) and I don't what form they are in (you want HCL/free form).

 

[Aleksandr]

Hi, so just wanted to do an updated after two weeks of experimenting with this idea so far.

What I found was that histidine and cysteine puts my libido, digestion, erections back to normal. I take 250mg of each twice a day, but went up to 500mg of each once a day too. I tried multiple other options like adding in zinc and copper with it and it completely destroys most of the benefits from it. So I still can't handle zinc or copper yet. Histidine increases zinc uptake to tissue so I'm just letting it naturally do the work through foods.

The only thing that didn't get fully resolved is my energy levels and still have some water retention in my face. So I think it is cortisol related because when I take RU it completely fixes that part since it blocks cortisol. I talked to Gbol extensively about this and he thinks as histidine increases stomach acid and gets zinc back into tissue again this will get cortisol sensitive again. Same goes with taking small amounts of HCL.

I highly suggest anyone reading this thread to try or start with 250mg of hisitidine HCL and cysteine HCL taken together. Make sure you get the HCL form of the aminos though so they absorb. If you don't notice anything up it to 500mg of each taken together once a day. This has worked for many people so far that I talked to in private here so far.

My next step is to start brewers yeast with HCL along the hisitidine and cysteine I'm already taking. Goal is leverage the zinc and B vitamins along with the aminos in the brewers yeast to start replenishing mineral store quicker now since digestion seems to back in order pretty well.

I'm not doing the FULL protocol yet (I haven't added in serine, aspartic acid and the other aminos or the liquid electrolytes). I was planning to just use the brewers yeast for the remaining aminos or just get the amino acid supplement I posted on the previous page. I toyed with beta alanine once with histidine, but haven't taken it enough to really draw any conclusion yet.

I also did test histidine by itself up to 3 grams (mentioned it in one of the pages in this thread) and did not get the same benefits when it was used soley alone. When I added in cysteine felt much much better (so cysteine does have influence)

Other things I noticed:

• hair is growing much fast all over
• hair growing darker/thicker looking
• skin looks better
• wake up with rock erection every morning, intense orgasms and big loads
• decrease in brain fog, much better focus
• muscles more full (not sure if this is directly related to the aminos or just from my digestion/metabolism getting fully back to normal TBH)

So in conclusion for anyone that wants to try (this is the starter/ghetto version):

• 250mg (or 500mg) histidine HCL
• 250mg (or 500mg) cysteine HCL
• 250mg - 500mg betaine HCL with each meal (technically optional) to absorb vitamins/minerals better and retain them quicker
• zinc/copper but do NOT start with this as it will castrate you or reduce benefits, stick to brewers yeast if you really want to use something right away
• full amino acid supplement (optional/experimental)
• brewers yeast for minerals and B vitamins since histidine will increase stomach acid (1 tsp - 2 tablespoon daily)
• liquid electrolytes supplement (haven't tried)

Histidine and zinc

http://encognitive.com/files/Histidine-GLA-Zinc Complex to Block Pain & Inflammation in Treatment-resistant Sydromes_0.pdf

Great post Tubzy!! thanks for the update. Great to hear your digestion improving as theorized!! Do you think you have an iron gut now? Could you go to bali and eat street food and not end up with diarrhea for a week, do you think?

Funnily enough, my GF (who is a fast oxidser) and I went to bali a few years ago. We ate at the same places, i got sick with a bad stomach bug... diarrhea for a week. She was completely fine. Also, she can't take HCL. She gets acid reflux from the feeling of HCL from 1 capsule. I can take 4 (i think 2000mg) before i feel it - and it improves my digestion a lot. Seems to align with Gbolds theory.

I've ordered some histadine+alanine (gbold said it was good for candida) so i'll let you know how that goes. My new stack will look like this:
Zinc 30mg (the zinc manganese combo semi-castrated me for a week when i first tried it, now its completely fine. i had no libido problems coming into this though) + alanine and histidine 500mg + 1tablespoonof bee pollen + 1cap mellow mood (it has b6 among other things) + bovine adrenal gland 150mg

 

[JonnyCraig]

Not sure if you saw the one I posted on the previous page. I talked to Gbol about it he said it looks good but he doesn't know (he never tried it) but all the forms look solid. So I was thinking about trying that one.

Yours is missing the non essential aminos (aspartic acid, alanine, serine etc.) and I don't what form they are in (you want HCL/free form).

Thanks man.

Saw your post(s).

Think I will order from that same site.

Got the following items in cart so far, not sure what else to add, as I want to keep it somewhat basic, maybe Serine?

What's the latest scoop on folic acid btw? I know it was being discussed and many were interested in it. Still good thing to try? I saw gbold posted an interesting link about people talking about it on a forum for penis enlargement.

L-Histidine HCL powder
L-Cysteine HCL powder
L-Alanine powder
Folic Acid powder

^^Open to any suggestions on what I should add in to test.

On an unrelated note.... I think I'm about 2 weeks or so into being on 100mg of oral progesterone a day. I am feeling different than before now. I wouldn't be surprised if my Testosterone levels are tanking, as gbold says happens on Prog. It's not even so much libido wise, although that is down a bit,, and sex/masturbation isn't as pleasurable by a little bit. BUT, I feel less assertive, more content to just chill and let the chips fall where they may, that type of vibe. It's not a BAD thing.. just different. Not sure if I'm liking it right now though. I'm also shedding like crazy today, but I think that's just because I haven't washed my hair in way too long.

I may or may not stop progesterone completely soon. Before I do that, I may try and switch to EOD dosing instead and see how that goes. The guy who stopped his hairloss with 100mg oral prog actually used it EOD, not daily... (gbold does that make any sense at all??)

BTW, just for the record, I felt better on zinc/mang - copper only - zinc/mang/copper than I do on prog, for sure. I am kind of wondering if the prog is messing with my face a bit too..... can't explain it, it could be the opposite too, but I think I'm looking a bit run down. Could be lack of sleep. ALTHOUGH this could be due to low-test, as well..(from the prog)

 

[Sevens]

@JonnyCraig
Buy Folate ( Methyfolate) instead of folic acid.

 

[JonnyCraig]

Great post Tubzy!! thanks for the update. Great to hear your digestion improving as theorized!! Do you think you have an iron gut now? Could you go to bali and eat street food and not end up with diarrhea for a week, do you think?

Funnily enough, my GF (who is a fast oxidser) and I went to bali a few years ago. We ate at the same places, i got sick with a bad stomach bug... diarrhea for a week. She was completely fine. Also, she can't take HCL. She gets acid reflux from the feeling of HCL from 1 capsule. I can take 4 (i think 2000mg) before i feel it - and it improves my digestion a lot. Seems to align with Gbolds theory.

I've ordered some histadine+alanine (gbold said it was good for candida) so i'll let you know how that goes. My new stack will look like this:
Zinc 30mg (the zinc manganese combo semi-castrated me for a week when i first tried it, now its completely fine. i had no libido problems coming into this though) + alanine and histidine 500mg + 1tablespoonof bee pollen + 1cap mellow mood (it has b6 among other things) + bovine adrenal gland 150mg

My stomach acid must be dead. I don't feel anything from even large amounts of HCL + pepsin... zero. nada. Literally like 10 pills+.. nothing.

 

[JonnyCraig]

@JonnyCraig
Buy Folate ( Methyfolate) instead of folic acid.

Thanks. I have bought folate before (over folic acid) from swanson, but did not know if it was superfluous or not.

Ty.

 

[Helen]

@TubZy NIce post man.

How are your chemical sensitivities and allergic reactions to things . And also breathing . I know you were complaining about breathing

 

[snowball]

@TubZy
Amazing post!!
Excerpt from your post:
“....try (this is the starter/ghetto version):

• 250mg (or 500mg) histidine HCL
• 250mg (or 500mg) cysteine HCL
• 250mg - 500mg betaine HCL with each meal....”

Since I have not taken RU yet for fixing PFS related issues related to high prog, do you think it is okay to try this combination you shared above?
I do have low sulfur and low Na:K ratio from hair test and guessing these 3 might help..? Tried zinc/Mn before but reduced libido with lower back pain which is generally high prog.

 

[TubZy]

Great post Tubzy!! thanks for the update. Great to hear your digestion improving as theorized!! Do you think you have an iron gut now? Could you go to bali and eat street food and not end up with diarrhea for a week, do you think?

Funnily enough, my GF (who is a fast oxidser) and I went to bali a few years ago. We ate at the same places, i got sick with a bad stomach bug... diarrhea for a week. She was completely fine. Also, she can't take HCL. She gets acid reflux from the feeling of HCL from 1 capsule. I can take 4 (i think 2000mg) before i feel it - and it improves my digestion a lot. Seems to align with Gbolds theory.

I've ordered some histadine+alanine (gbold said it was good for candida) so i'll let you know how that goes. My new stack will look like this:
Zinc 30mg (the zinc manganese combo semi-castrated me for a week when i first tried it, now its completely fine. i had no libido problems coming into this though) + alanine and histidine 500mg + 1tablespoonof bee pollen + 1cap mellow mood (it has b6 among other things) + bovine adrenal gland 150mg

Yeah dude my gut is much stronger now. Fasting helped clean it up originally, but taking histidine HCL really improved it further I guess since it increases stomach acid greatly. Been at a lot of Christmas parties and just been pounding through crappy food with no problem as long as I take it. Regular betaine HCL helps too, but histidine HCL is even fine alone.

I actually did try the betaine HCL capsules (I think with pepsid) a long long time ago and they helped OK and they just stopped working for some reason. But I using the pure powder and drinking it in water is much stronger and it works way quicker, you can basically feel it.

I still can't do zinc yet man, I think I'm going to stay with brewers yeast and food for maybe another week or two and see. The thing is when I did take the zinc with the histidine I felt it "working" and the cortisol lowering and anti anxiety type effects way more probably from the histidine enhancing absorption, but it just castrated me in the libido department.

Keep us posted on the stack, it looks good. Actually you are probably the 2nd or 3rd person that told me they started off crappy on zinc/mang and eventually it went away too.

 

[TubZy]

Thanks man.

Saw your post(s).

Think I will order from that same site.

Got the following items in cart so far, not sure what else to add, as I want to keep it somewhat basic, maybe Serine?

What's the latest scoop on folic acid btw? I know it was being discussed and many were interested in it. Still good thing to try? I saw gbold posted an interesting link about people talking about it on a forum for penis enlargement.

L-Histidine HCL powder
L-Cysteine HCL powder
L-Alanine powder
Folic Acid powder

^^Open to any suggestions on what I should add in to test.

On an unrelated note.... I think I'm about 2 weeks or so into being on 100mg of oral progesterone a day. I am feeling different than before now. I wouldn't be surprised if my Testosterone levels are tanking, as gbold says happens on Prog. It's not even so much libido wise, although that is down a bit,, and sex/masturbation isn't as pleasurable by a little bit. BUT, I feel less assertive, more content to just chill and let the chips fall where they may, that type of vibe. It's not a BAD thing.. just different. Not sure if I'm liking it right now though. I'm also shedding like crazy today, but I think that's just because I haven't washed my hair in way too long.

I may or may not stop progesterone completely soon. Before I do that, I may try and switch to EOD dosing instead and see how that goes. The guy who stopped his hairloss with 100mg oral prog actually used it EOD, not daily... (gbold does that make any sense at all??)

BTW, just for the record, I felt better on zinc/mang - copper only - zinc/mang/copper than I do on prog, for sure. I am kind of wondering if the prog is messing with my face a bit too..... can't explain it, it could be the opposite too, but I think I'm looking a bit run down. Could be lack of sleep. ALTHOUGH this could be due to low-test, as well..(from the prog)

The histidine and cysteine should definitely be the HCL form. It is up to you, you can try the amino acid complex + histidine/cysteine and see how it works or just buy them individually. I didn't try adding the amino acid complex with it yet so I can't comment really.

For the folic acid, Gbol originally told me to try the folic acid with histidine when I told him I had major improvements in all areas except energy/fatigue. I tried it for a few days and didn't notice anything good or bad so I just dropped it.

When I took progesterone, I feel so unmotivated dude like all I want to do is sleep. I got mine but haven't tried it yet with the cortisol because the amino acid route has been helping at least for the moment. I would be much more eager to try it but when I take progesterone, I barely get shit done and super tired so not really a fan.

 

[TubZy]

My stomach acid must be dead. I don't feel anything from even large amounts of HCL + pepsin... zero. nada. Literally like 10 pills+.. nothing.

Switch to getting the pure betaine HCL powder (or if your capsules aren't loaded with fillers, open the capsules and dump it in water) and put it in water and drink it, see if you feel anything, you will notice it quick if you do. I meant to say that in my post, I just edited it in.

 

[TubZy]

@TubZy NIce post man.

How are your chemical sensitivities and allergic reactions to things . And also breathing . I know you were complaining about breathing

Yes, allergies and breathing becomes much smoother after I take histidine but it comes back after like a few hours again. I assume since histidine levels drop in the body and I'm still depleted?

 

[TubZy]

@TubZy
Amazing post!!
Excerpt from your post:
“....try (this is the starter/ghetto version):

• 250mg (or 500mg) histidine HCL
• 250mg (or 500mg) cysteine HCL
• 250mg - 500mg betaine HCL with each meal....”

Since I have not taken RU yet for fixing PFS related issues related to high prog, do you think it is okay to try this combination you shared above?
I do have low sulfur and low Na:K ratio from hair test and guessing these 3 might help..? Tried zinc/Mn before but reduced libido with lower back pain which is generally high prog.

Yes, I think you are good. I mean like Gbol was saying some people could be high in histidine or low in cysteine etc. so that is why he mentions to just try and experiment and see how you feel first at least that is what I did. Maybe just start with cysteine dose alone and see how you feel and if you feel fine, add the histidine in if you really want to be on the safe side but I think you will OK. I know @Scenes did that route

 

[TubZy]

Oh and I forgot to say, you don't have to do my doses i.e. only one dose per day or only 250mg-500mg. That is just what I did and seems to work for me. Some people have went higher and lower. I think @gbolduev said he can't take over 250mg of histidine otherwise he feels weird, but other people are taking more just experiment.

 

[tanedout]

Just reading up about cysteine as I remembered reading that isotretinion/accutane results in high homocysteine levels and was worried supplementing cysteine might raise them further (I'm not sure if the same applies to finasteride, but I'm guessing it possibly does as clearly they have a very similar mechanism), but seems not looking at the pathways as cysteine is lower down.

I can see how the serine and b-vits (or brewers yeast) might come into play now too, as they are required to convert homocysteine into cysteine, so these things should increase cysteine even more (see trans-sulfation pathway in the diagram)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/MTHFR_metabolism.svg

Homocysteine - Wikipedia

Isotretinoin (Iso) has been used for the treatment of acne. Some previous studies reported elevated homocysteine (Hcy) levels after treatment with Iso. Some side effects have clinical presentations similar to vitamin B12, folic acid deficiencies,

Effect of isotretinoin treatment on plasma holotranscobalamin, vitamin B12, folic acid, and homocysteine levels: non-controlled study. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[JonnyCraig]

The histidine and cysteine should definitely be the HCL form. It is up to you, you can try the amino acid complex + histidine/cysteine and see how it works or just buy them individually. I didn't try adding the amino acid complex with it yet so I can't comment really.

For the folic acid, Gbol originally told me to try the folic acid with histidine when I told him I had major improvements in all areas except energy/fatigue. I tried it for a few days and didn't notice anything good or bad so I just dropped it.

When I took progesterone, I feel so unmotivated dude like all I want to do is sleep. I got mine but haven't tried it yet with the cortisol because the amino acid route has been helping at least for the moment. I would be much more eager to try it but when I take progesterone, I barely get **** done and super tired so not really a fan.

Your information is really invaluable, thanks again.

Very interesting note about the progesterone, that is spot on.

What's interesting too is.. when I stopped progesterone for 1-2 months, then took it, that first day... I felt extreme bliss, just amazing, literally felt stress melting off. However that effect goes away once you dose daily, and you're just left feeling tired/unmotivated all the time, like everything is like blah, and you need to force yourself more to be motivated to do things.

Question though... do you remember how progesterone affected your hair, either positive or negative? or unclear?

 

[Helen]

Guys, read the protocol carefully, First , zinc finger could be upregulated also. So some people can feel bad Second of all. as of now only one person follows this close enough . Others are just playing with it , making up new one as they go .LOL


WE dont know yet, if histidine is downregulated or it is low, OR it is high. WE obviously know now that it is in play.

But to properly fix the issue, we need to see if taking histidine and cysteine sticks to people.

If it does not stick. then it is regulatory, and we probably need to increases copper, folate, methionine. magnesium , potassium.


That is why it is still too early to advice it as a protocol and rec to all the people. WE need to clearly fix the ones who are trying it now ,and then if they are fixed we can make a protocol


As far as Scenes. I gave him the regulatory route fix, and he is totally fixed. That is what he told me today. PFS is gone.


And he was not even taking histidine for instance. We put him on copper, magnesium potassium, then some mangesium with zinc and cysteine.


So it is not about histidine here. It is about the balance.

 

[ruprmurdoch]

Histidine helps women orgasm. It's astonishing that this fact doesn't get more media coverage, but if you read up on the therapeutic uses of amino acids to treat certain conditions, it's right there in black and white. Orgasm depends on the action of histaMINE in mast cells, which are also involved in allergic reactions. HistiDINE is an amino acid your body uses to make histaMINE. One reason people on SSRI drugs have trouble with orgasm is that it interferes with this. I have read that you can use histidine to counteract this effect of SSRIs, although I have never used it under those conditions. Histidine also helps with vaginal lubrication and secretion of tears from the eyes. I began using this in my 40s when orgasm became more difficult, and things have been good ever since.

Also, get this. The literature describes a subset of women who orgasm easily and are a complete mess emotionally, crying at the drop of a hat. These women are called histadelics, and their condition is attributed to an excess of histidine. Again, this may be why SSRIs are such a help to certain weepy people. So you want to be careful not to take too much histidine, because it can make you weepy. This happened to me, so I am careful with dosing. I had been using histidine 500 mg tablets by Twinlab. Broken in half, they provided a 250 mg dose, which helped me orgasm without making me a basket case. If I take 500 mg, I'm a basket case.


Interesting review from some woman. I remember someone was talking about anorgasmia in PSSD?

Gbold, I am person who have naturally low zinc finger, I mean high cortisol, high progesterone, high DHEA. It's completely correct that Cortisol is alarm signal. It's alarm signal of high histamine. And histamine secretion is promoted by high ACTH. High ACTH means low aldosterone. To overcompensate bad effects, people with healthy adrenals will secrete cortisol. In my case the reason is pathology of pituitary (partially empty sella syndrome). When I was a kid because of this stuff I had Salmonella and pneumonia. Lot's of days in hospital.

And In my case it seems that it's not like you wrote that we should not connect this with low thyroid effect. I think Thyroid is involved in this proces, beacuse it's releasing calcitonin, which put calcium to bone and as we know cortisol is doing opposite thing, and when you have abnormally high levels of cortisol, there is big conflict. I got so many tumors on my thyroid when was 22 y old that some of them were carcinogenic. After thyroidectomy it went even worse. Cortisol have no opposition of calcitonin and my Empty sella syndrome got worse. My gonadotropins became lower, so lower libido, weak erection, weak orgasm, unabilitty to sleep during night (acth,cortisol,histamine)

I think histidine can help people with thyroid problems also. I think it could help me.

Edit: One think which help were vitamin b3 (niacin) and trypthophan. Just look in trypthophan metabolism, its converted to serotonin (metabolites of serotonin are high when acth is high (check situation when there is acth secreting tumor), and is converted to niacin. So it's logic that when serotonin is high, then niacin is low. So Post SSRI syndrome,people on SSRI drugs, people with high acth, cortisol,histamine can benefit from those substances.

 

[JonnyCraig]

@Scenes , can you comment further on what gbold just said, please?

Your PFS is gone?

Also, how is your hair? (I remember you also had increased shedding on thyroid)