ZINC FINGER THEORY DISCUSSION for PFS - 2 cases

[bruschi11]

Ammonia and BH4 - is this a myth or something?

Great find. Will read this more deeply when I have chance but this is interesting.

 

[tanedout]

Hey, here is a good example (below). Betaine HCL tanks potassium in the cell (essentially slowing metabolism). That is why you need to take electrolytes with it. Really anything that tanks potassium in the cell slows metabolism...RU/ella/copper etc.......for example on my 5th day of RU my metabolism and digestion was like completely shut down

Zinc/magnesium etc. all put potassium back in the cell (increase progesterone) hence why they speed up thyroid

My understanding is that with PFS, potassium becomes "stuck" in the cell and nothing is working properly. That is why just taking zinc or magnesium alone can make you feel worse because the body already has enough potassium in the cell already, that is why it is wasting zinc in urine, it doesn't need it. So tanking potassium intentionally allows your body to help re-sensitize again because your forcing it out of the cell. When the snap back occurs from RU/ella it is your body putting potassium back in the cell again except it is more sensitive this time and is working better so you feel better and metabolism improves.

So if it tanks potassium in the cell, then results in a rebound effect, surely it would make sense to cycle Betaine HCL? I.e. take an increased dosage for a few days, then stop for 4-5 days to see if there is a bounce back, and repeat?

 

[Canari]

So if it tanks potassium in the cell, then results in a rebound effect, surely it would make sense to cycle Betaine HCL? I.e. take an increased dosage for a few days, then stop for 4-5 days to see if there is a bounce back, and repeat?

How can you do this if you take it according to your digestion? I forgot it once at dinner, and was woken up by reflux!

 

[TubZy]

Not getting it. If tanking potassium should re sentisize it, why add potassium in all these protocols?

Sorry for sounding like a dumbass.

When potassium gets tanked, the body looks for more potassium. If it can't get it, it will induce 3 beta HSD instead which will increase progesterone which you don't want. When that happens, this will increase progesterone and down regulate progesterone receptors (in which your receptors are already down regulated from taking a progestin AKA finasteride).

When you take potassium at the same time as something that tanks it, you are feeding your body potassium at that given moment. So instead of inducing 3 beta HSD, the body will use the potassium that you are supplementing with. This will prevent progesterone from increasing which will then up-regulate prog receptors, which you want. In other words, making it more sensitive.

Same concept as fasting. Hormones drops during the fast (testosterone, progesterone, insulin etc.) and this causes upregulation. This is the reason why you get a huge hormone spike post fast, I posted some studies on it before. That is the reason why fasting helps with diabetes and improving insulin sensitivity by having low levels of insulin constantly during the fast, this increases insulin sensitivity greatly so when you come off the fast your body is now more sensitive to insulin. I experienced this first hand.

Testosterone is also induced by 3 beta HSD enzyme as well.

 

[TubZy]

So if it tanks potassium in the cell, then results in a rebound effect, surely it would make sense to cycle Betaine HCL? I.e. take an increased dosage for a few days, then stop for 4-5 days to see if there is a bounce back, and repeat?

Yes, you actually can do that or you can continually take it as well with electrolytes so you start absorbing aminos and proteins again while retaining minerals/potassium.

 

[snowball]

I tried l-histadine and it improved digestion significantly. However for last 2 days, I’m on a business trip (don’t have l-histamine), my digestion is bad with stomach cramps and cannot think of any suspects as my diet has been very balanced with no gluten. Any ideas /solutions or similar experiences?

 

[TPaks]

Hi. I'm post accutane and my main symptoms are fatigue, muscle weakness and mental (mind fog, memory, concentration, anhedonia).

I tried cycling licorice root extract and noticed that contrary to my expectations I felt great (~90% recovered) while on licorice and crashed while off it. I tried taking it for a longer period of time but eventually it stopped working and I felt a little worse than when I started.

My questions are:

• which case is this in the up/downregulated progesterone receptors theory (I guess case 1 - upregulated)?
• how does this relate to the zinc finger theory?

 

[fablecloth]

NADH recycles Bh4 which protects nitric oxide, without bh4 you produce superoxide and not nitric oxide.

It looks like this is the situation here.

This is an extract of my Nutrahacker report:

Note that despite the description above about homocysteine levels, I do have another gene that encodes for high homocysteine levels.

So despite this all linking to MTHFR, I am not sure if methylation problems lead to PFS or PSSD...

 

[Helen]

This is an extract of my Nutrahacker report:

Note that despite the description above about homocysteine levels, I do have another gene that encodes for high homocysteine levels.

So despite this all linking to MTHFR, I am not sure if methylation problems lead to PFS or PSSD...

PFS is mostly potassium problem without potassium NADPH is not made , this is why we encourage to fix alkalosis. Methylfolate makes NADPH this is why it helps PFS so does NADH

But these are just stilts. the real problem solver is the electrolytes aminos and HCL. ( posted in general health post) thenyou eat good food, plus you can add NADH, breuss fast components

And you can add Protandim components to keep glutathione high and keep pressure off NADPH and this should restore everything.

 

[Steve]

PFS is mostly potassium problem without potassium NADPH is not made , this is why we encourage to fix alkalosis. Methylfolate makes NADPH this is why it helps PFS so does NADH

But these are just stilts. the real problem solver is the electrolytes aminos and HCL. ( posted in general health post) thenyou eat good food, plus you can add NADH, breuss fast components

And you can add Protandim components to keep glutathione high and keep pressure off NADPH and this should restore everything.

I’ve got the electrolytes on me now. Should I start off with just potassium chloride or do magnesium chloride at the same time with it?

 

[Helen]

I’ve got the electrolytes on me now. Should I start off with just potassium chloride or do magnesium chloride at the same time with it?

man,everything is written out here many times everything should be taken together, Look at Tubzy's profile it is all there

 

[Steve]

man,everything is written out here many times everything should be taken together, Look at Tubzy's profile it is all there

I get it all man, I do.

I’m just in a downswing right now and I know you say to take both. But magnesium ascorbate hasn’t been good for me in the past. I was wondering if I started just potassium chloride if that might be okay initially.

 

[Orion]

I get it all man, I do.

I’m just in a downswing right now and I know you say to take both. But magnesium ascorbate hasn’t been good for me in the past. I was wondering if I started just potassium chloride if that might be okay initially.

Needs to be KCl and MgCl, you need the chloride versions. you can buy them bulk cheaply online from many sources.

 

[Steve]

Needs to be KCl and MgCl, you need the chloride versions. you can buy them bulk cheaply online from many sources.

Yeah I have both on me. It’s just whenever I took magnesium ascorbate I reacted badly. I guess I was worried magnesium chloride would do the same.

 

[Steve]

I have the eidon minerals liquid drops ones. Others have these and like them?

 

[Orion]

Yeah I have both on me. It’s just whenever I took magnesium ascorbate I reacted badly. I guess I was worried magnesium chloride would do the same.

You can also spray them on your skin, if they give you gut troubles.

 

[Steve]

Does magnesium chloride five anyone gut troubles?

 

[Canari]

You can also spray them on your skin, if they give you gut troubles.

Does magnesium chloride give anyone gut troubles?

That happens often.... i was on MgCl with B6 cycles most of my teens....

Yes spray or rub, as this is what is known as Mg oil. It is not oil, but MgCl in water seems like oil! Mind your mucosa and wash your hands. Do not put where you have scratches. Burning sensation, so mind your eyes especially.

 

[mattyb]

So if it tanks potassium in the cell, then results in a rebound effect, surely it would make sense to cycle Betaine HCL? I.e. take an increased dosage for a few days, then stop for 4-5 days to see if there is a bounce back, and repeat?

This is why I wrote out a protocol that involved cycling HCl with electrolytes. I think dosages of HCl that I wrote could likely be much higher for some people though.

 

[Canari]

This is why I wrote out a protocol that involved cycling HCl with electrolytes. I think dosages of HCl that I wrote could likely be much higher for some people though.

How do you digest properly when you are off HCl? Do you take something else?