A protocol Based on CSF steroid levels

[Aflac94]

Study: Rats given PSSD showed sexual improvements on DHT and 17b-estradiol

This goes in hand with the lowered neurosteroids theory, and as seen in PFS CSF. If the brain cannot manufacture enough, we simply supplement those neurosteroids and get receptors activating again.

The trick is dosage. You would need to start low on each one, and slowly increase. Particularly with 17b-estradiol (E2), as plasma/CSF amounts are normally very tiny.

I also think supplementing allopregnanolone could be added to this combo. But since you cant get that anywhere, and it has a short half-life, synthetic alternatives like SAGE-217 would be better. But the synthetics are still in clinical trials. So maybe low-dose prog.

T was already high in PFS CSF, so while it could help, it would be interesting to see if DHT is all that is needed.

Figuring out dosage is tricky. The rats were given 5 ug of E2. Converting rat "per bodyweight" dose, aka mg/kg, to human, is calculated with factors from this study. We simply divide the rat mg/kg dosage by 6.2 The study does not tell us the weight of the rats, so we use the average,between 300-500 g.

For a 300g rat, 5 ug of E2 is 0.016 mg/kg. So the human-equivalent dose is 0.0025 mg/kg. So for a male weighing 80kg, that is 0.2 mg (oral) E2 per day.

For DHT, the calculation yields 0.53 mg/kg or about 43mg for average adult male. However this is the oral dose. For transdermal/cream, this calculation would be different (lower).

Are you gonna try this protocol? Will you get prescription for estrogen and DHT or use resvertrol and r-andro?

I’m torn between doing a short trial of this or just forgetting hormones routes and committing to TEI long term. Just feel like if I ever want to try hormone route I should do it BEFORE I get on TEI consistently

 

[Helen]

@Aflac94 If you try this , you need to try all together mentioned in the first post.

DHT with resveratrol we already ran, also we ran DHT with estrogen.

 

[HerrFisch]

@Helen what does it mean if your hair test shows low manganese? i get over 100% RDI from my diet
How do you think maganese levels are correlated to copper... high copper= high manganese?

Do we know for sure accutane causes high ceruloplasmin which uses up copper? I suppose Orion and myself are both ex-accutane with low copper

Manganese hair levels are weird, I had higher manganese levels in my first hair test than I have now even though I supplemented it for now 1 year and up to 75mg a day. And the level still declined.

 

[Jaxx]

@Aflac94 If you try this , you need to try all together mentioned in the first post.

DHT with resveratrol we already ran, also we ran DHT with estrogen.

Who did dht plus estrogen, was it pssd?

 

[Helen]

Who did dht plus estrogen, was it pssd?

Many people since it was a protocol which I outlined first and we discussed this PSSD study also a year ago.

Look at the protocols. which were first outlined even on ray peat forum.

Estradiol and dht and dht and reseveratrol gave people results immediately. but estrogen cant downregulate its receptors by itself, it needs progesterone for that .

PSSD - estrogen and DHT was also tried on pssd forum, but it was some weird dude, who kept taking crazy drugs with it . and then he lost his memory))


Also by the way, tested Barbarr dopamine and serotonin. Dopamine is sky high in blood, and serotonin is LOW


WE need some people to try this protocol . may be it will stick.


If this protocol will not stick. then it will be clear that brain is copper iron toxic.

 

[Jaxx]

Many people since it was a protocol which I outlined first and we discussed this PSSD study also a year ago.

Look at the protocols. which were first outlined even on ray peat forum.

Estradiol and dht and dht and reseveratrol gave people results immediately. but estrogen cant downregulate its receptors by itself, it needs progesterone for that .

PSSD - estrogen and DHT was also tried on pssd forum, but it was some weird dude, who kept taking crazy drugs with it . and then he lost his memory))


Also by the way, tested Barbarr dopamine and serotonin. Dopamine is sky high in blood, and serotonin is LOW

Dopamine and serotonine testing is only reliable if you cut his brain open. In psychiatry testing in blood is considered useless. Hope you didnt kill him

 

[Helen]

Dopamine and serotonine testing is only reliable if you cut his brain open. In psychiatry testing in blood is considered useless. Hope you didnt kill him

that is wrong. Dopamine and serotonin testing is valid in blood, but you have to know how to read it.

Since I tested it before, and it always followed normal body regulations

 

[Jaxx]

Lets assume its true. In general pssd people respond bad to returning to ssri and somewhat respond or barely respond to dopamine agonists, why is that?

 

[Helen]

Lets assume its true. In general pssd people respond bad to returning to ssri and somewhat respond or barely respond to dopamine agonists, why is that?

because the problem is probably with noradrenaline


I would assume there is a mismatch between copper and iron brain levels and tissue levels.

 

[Jaxx]

Interesting thought, havent seen people getting benefits from reboxetine or nortriptyline however. Would change the current insights drastically

 

[Helen]

@Jaxx

I will try couple of things with barbaar. we just finished the testing

Also I am going to check with barbaar the theory of mismatch between copper brain levels iron brain levels and tissue levels

He has non existant iron in his urine. it is very very low.


let's assume that SSRI caused changes in brain copper metabolism. or iron metabolism. Deficiency or toxicity i dont know yet.

Estradiol takes copper puts it on ceruloplasmin and delivers it places.

DHT does the same with iron.

then tissues will be opposite. and this could explain levels of dopamine and serotonin in blood

 

[Jaxx]

Good to see some movement

 

[Jaxx]

One thing that resonates with your comment to perhaps try things In combination for pfs.
Things that gave some people windows in pssd, were not the most potent ones, but rather the ones with kinda broad mechanisms, like sjw, moclobemide etc.
My doc actually suggested to cycle prami instead of contiously increasing dose until effect.

 

[Aflac94]

@Aflac94 If you try this , you need to try all together mentioned in the first post.

DHT with resveratrol we already ran, also we ran DHT with estrogen.

Pregnenolone
Progesterone
resveratrol
R-Andro

I could try these 4 together, this is what I have access to. If you think the above is not equivalent I won’t do it and I’ll just forget it and use TEI

 

[Jaxx]

@Helen , any thoughts how low serotonin would match the zero anxiety state (apathy almost) that many pssd people have? Classic psychology says anxiety is caused by low serotonin levels...

 

[Helen]

@Helen , any thoughts how low serotonin would match the zero anxiety state (apathy almost) that many pssd people have? Classic psychology says anxiety is caused by low serotonin levels...

anxiety could have been from noradrenaline, acetylcholine. etc

I think symptoms of PSSD stem from noradrenaline problems. IMO

may be this is why SSRI dont do good, since once you go on them body is breaking down noradrenaline by MAO A even more.

 

[Jaxx]

anxiety could have been from noradrenaline, acetylcholine. etc

I think symptoms of PSSD stem from noradrenaline problems. IMO

may be this is why SSRI dont do good, since once you go on them body is breaking down noradrenaline by MAO A even more.

Its a novel idea, but i wonder why things like bupropion, reboxetine (or even snri’s) dont seem to do much for pssd. Only gave me insomnia.

 

[zadig777]

Its a novel idea, but i wonder why things like bupropion, reboxetine (or even snri’s) dont seem to do much for pssd. Only gave me insomnia.

jaxx we need noradrelaline receptor agonist drugs like pseudoephedrine etc..
chime in my last post
with norephinephrine receptor agonists they treat ejaculation disorders that we have in diabetic and other people with retrograde or dry ejaculation

 

[Jaxx]

jaxx we need noradrelaline receptor agonist drugs like pseudoephedrine etc..
chime in my last post
with norephinephrine receptor agonists they treat ejaculation disorders that we have in diabetic and other people with retrograde or dry ejaculation

Retrogade ejaculation isnt a typical pssd symptom. If anything noradreline drugs has given some people premature ejaculation.
I am not saying noradrenaline cannot play a role, all neurotransmitters need to be in balance. I am saying however that several NET drugs have been tried in pssd with close to none effect on libido.

 

[Helen]

Its a novel idea, but i wonder why things like bupropion, reboxetine (or even snri’s) dont seem to do much for pssd. Only gave me insomnia.

Neonatal citalopram exposure produces lasting changes in behavior which are reversed by adult imipramine treatment. - PubMed - NCBI


As I said SSRI probably causes upregulation of MAO, and also breaking down of dopamine in the brain , and noradrenaline is not working.


I am not pro drugs, I d rather use chelators or hormones in this case, than go on some other reuptake inhibitors)) But this is just to show that noradrenaline plays a major part here.