gbold and mattyb disagree about things?

[mattyb]

@gbolduev All of those diseases have elevated histamine production. That's why histidine is low. HDC is upregulated because immune system is stuck in a positive feedback loop due to stimulus from oxidative damage. Low histidine is a symptom.

If we are just going to name off molecules that have histidine in the their structure, we are going to have a long list because it's in everything. More important and targeted question are:
- Is histidine essential for the activity of enyzme that produces that hormone/vitamin/function?
- Is histidine in the active site of the hormone/enzyme?
- Is there another limiting factor that's more important than histidine? As an example, conversion of proinsulin to insulin is dependent on intracellular acidic pH. So if a person is in alkalosis, insulin levels will be down whether or not histidine is there or not.

 

[Helen]

@mattyb I think you got it wrong.


Without histidine person cant get out of alkalosis and it is not alkalosis , it is a compensation since without histidine you cant get rid of CO2, it is impossbile, your CA enzyme simply does not recycle thus all those people with CFS have huge high Co2 , but hyperventilation at the same time. And people cant figure out, why artery shows hyperventilation and vein HUGE CO2. I already posted about that.

This problem of utilizing CO2 causes metabolism to just stay down.

As I posted before CFS and most other diseases go from low MT and glutathione. They are protocols for MT promotion form Pfifer and others. Who already understood this idea.

Free zinc increases histamine activation. does not mean that histidine is a symptom. Since taking histidine gets rid of histamine production and activation even if you take it with zinc and b6, since you bind metals now with MT and they are not flowing around causing the reactions and histamine activation.

If you induce MT and promote it, you wont have like 90% of these diseases.

This is why that woman also was taking zinc with histidine , promoting her MT levels and no more histamine activation. And she was taking it with zinc and b6. so purposely increased her histamine levels.

UC is the disease of increased need for MT. SO is autism and many others.

Insulin levels will be down with problems with CO2 utilizaton, not alkalosis. I have resp acidosis all my life because of scoliosis. And my insulin is always low and I cant take any potassium either. since this increases Co2. And insulin will increase CO2 also. by putting potassium in the cell.

Taking zinc carnosine copper cysteine increases my insulin levels and also increases potassium in the cell and lowers cortisol. taking zinc alone decreases my insulin levels and causes low metabolism and increases CORTISOL since the limiting amino was histidine.

Without histidine your ferritin will be up, since ferritin substitutes for MT in the cell in this case and iron is raised in the cell to promote cortisol conversions and also transferrin which carries iron out of the cell needs histidine.


MT is basically zinc finger.

That is why when you dont utilize Co2 correctly , your cortisol will be up and it will retain sodium and in this case SODIUM is your saver. Since it will increase ventilation and adrenaline sensitivity in the cell.

So I think my original version that I outlined on RPF was the correct one.

 

[mattyb]

You are oversimplifying everything. I used insulin as one example at how there are true root causes that need to be considered. These things are not as simple as low histidine. Histidine is being kept low for varying reasons, some more direct than others.

Let's take MS as an example because it's one I've studied thoroughly. MS flares are spurred on partially by ionizing radiation/geomagnetic disturbances from solar activity, as well as radiological exams. MS people are typically in resp acidosis (and it's NOT compensatory), especially as disease worsens. Ionizing radiation causes immediate increase in ATP production and mitochondrial activity, within hours mitochondria begin fragmenting (and this happens in clean cell cultures, not heavy metal-toxic rich people). Mitochondrial fission is an initial signal of infection (since viruses hijack cells to overproduce energy to help their own replication), so the immune system responds and goes crazy, attacking cells, producing free radicals, releasing histamine, causing hypoxia. This worsens things even more so, the body gets stuck in a positive feedback loop. If a person is in more G2/S phase of replication they are affected more severely by ambient radiation. If a person is exposed to heavy metals, their gluathione/SOD/catalase/vit E is more depleted, so they are less able to recover from these insults.

But lets not pretend there is one ubiquitous cause. A million factors all play together to create the right conditions for the disease to start. Those factors will often come together and in the late stages of disease will come together and create some similar conditions. Most sick people will have low gluatathione, but is that the cause of their problems? No, it's a result of an underlying mechanism. Same thing goes for histidine, MT, SOD, Catalase, chloride, potassium, etc. in many diseases.

This narrow focus on histidine alone is painfully reductive and simplified IMO. I just can't help but think to myself that low histidine is a problem that will mostly fix itself when the underlying cause of the disease in question is fixed. Maybe it has a more central role in things like PFS or PSSD, that is fine, I am not an expert in those problems, I will leave that to you to figure out.

 

[Helen]

Who said respriratory acidosis was compensatory. I said that alkalosis is compensatory. And you have alkalosis , resp alkalosis , plus CO2 inability to be utilized. Think about it.

CO2 is not able to be utilized not because of breathing, but because of CA enzyme not able to recycle. This causes a person to hyperventilate and retain sodium with bicarbonate= CFS.


No body focuses on histidine alone. I focus on MT promotion and zinc finger. IT has many systems involved. Read the zinc finger theory. It outlines all possible interactions there. But I think promoting MT is the way to go. And it has cysteine, selenium ,zinc histidine and supporting systems involved . IN some people cysteine could be limiting amino and not histidine.

Fasting is ok also, but it much slower and much weaker process since you are already low on bioavailable MT activators.

Underlying cause is heavy metals. Like in autism , UC, etc. viruses which stem from zinc inavailability. It wont correct itself unless you promote MT since without MT you will have too much free zinc which will cause virus to grow like you read bout.

because with the extra need for MT, your metabolism will be down, since you are not utilizing CO2. And it is not resp acidosis. it is inability to utilize Co2. Which has end effect as resp acidosis, but in causes met and resp compensatory alkalosis.

Chelation of free metals will be best by promoting MT. and not using chelators.

Read again about what I wrote about insulin, this is your case. You have to rethink your understanding of PH balance now for your case and for CFS

As I wrote those are cases of inability to utilize CO2.

This has nothing to do with PFS or PSSD. This will work for CFS, MS, UC, and others

 

[mattyb]

What are you talking about? "This is my case"? I don't have a case, I am healthy - no issues.

People with MS do not have low metabolism. They produce too much CO2, we see this in the lab all the time. Have seen dozens of people with MS. They all have high CO2 output. Resting energy expenditure is the same in these people compared to healthy people despite lower physical activity levels, poor nutrition, spasticity, and having impaired brain metabolism due to brain lesions, etc.. I live in the MS capital of the world, and just so happen to be along the concentration line of ionizing solar radiation.
You are focused too much on heavy metals. They are not the cause of everything, not everyone has had serious toxic exposures like yourself. Many people grow up with minimal exposures.

This is silly focusing on one thing as the cause and cure of all conditions. We can't be so reductive. Sure it can help some people, but not all. Let's not fall into the same trap as Peat.

 

[Helen]

high Co2 output? , No it is not. it is high CO2 retention. since unable to recycle CA. They dont have resp acidosis. their metabolism is DOWN. I can prove it you with the hairtest. calcium in hair will be higher than norm.

I am not sure why you are not reading what I write? Simplifying things? this is more complicated than the current medical understanding.

I have no idea what you are taking about. I think you misunderstood me. What Ray Peat?

All I am saying to you , is that you reading PHs wrong. I am not focusing on one thing. I am telling that you are reading this particular situation WRONG

And your case is with respiratory acidosis as you told me with hives. Fixing it with food for the last 2 months is not being healthy. the underlying issue is still there. You force hyperventilaion by exercise. and this increases your metabolism. You call it getting rid of alkalosis, I said that you are wrong, and that the issue is deeper than you think. I can gaurantee you that if you do your hair now, you will be in 4 highs. And that is not balanced.


Matty, I am not promoting cure all approach. I promote read PHs correctly approach. And then find out what you are missing. But I am sure in 90% cases you will come back to MT and zinc finger unless some organ damage.

High CO2 dilemma was not solved before, since people had it with resp alkalosis at the same time and metabolic alkalosis at the same time LOL

It is not high CO2 output, it is high CO2 retention since not able to be utilized. CA needs to be made active.

Metabolism is super low in these situations.

I am for very systematic approach, especially with PHs values.

I suggested this CO2 retention idea before. All CFS people retain CO2, with resp alkalosis and met alkalosis for compensation.

 

[Helen]

Also Matty, most diseases like alzheimer and MS are not from even toxic metals. but just from metals. like zinc copper , iron etc. Any of those free metals will be doing the same as mercury really. I am not focused just on heavy metals, I am focused on stress theory , plus stress of the environment which will cause free metals as I outlined in Zinc finger theory . although the part about alkalosis there is not correct. It is Co2 retention that stops the metabolism from going up.

Just try to give zinc to a MS person, LOL immune function will go INSANE. since zinc is not bound by anything.

In any case, I dont understand your attack on my case, I am posting to give information about how I see things. You think for some reason that current PH reading skills are correct. I think NOT.

This is why we gathered here to discuss things. And if you were in my situation and you saw this situation with my eyes, I wonder would you be talking about zinc finger histidine cysteine etc or not. I think you would. If the main problem with the PH is CA recylcing, how are you going to fix that.

I hope you understand my view and why I was taking about zinc finger and MT so much. Since I saw 80% retain this mysterious CO2. So did you. And it is not resp acidosis in most cases. And it is not alkalosis, since it is never helped really by potassium or magnesium. They never seem to hold in the cell.

It is clearly CO2 retention and inability to even deliver it to the lungs. This is where MT and zinc finger play a role. And we see this imbalance more and more and more in most of the conditions. I saw it in 80 % of people and increasing with age.

 

[mattyb]

gbold, I haven't exercised more than 1-2/week for 1 month and have only done short weightlifting sessions. No breathing exercises. Eating pretty much whatever I want - I ate sugary foods all last week because they were put in front of me. Sitting a lot. No hives, no problems at all. I'm fixed. I don't think my understanding of pH is wrong. I was able to fix myself using nothing but symptoms and extremely limited testing. I went through 2 years of this shit non-stop and have been fine since August. Why are you going out of your way to try and convince me that I'm sick or something? It's bullshit, move on.

Why would you think MS people have high intracellular calcium? MS people have high calcium excretion, they are in acidosis, they are more likely to get osteoperosis. They can't retain calcium. Vitamin D helps people with MS because it puts calcium back into the cell and slows metabolism down, that's why it works so well with current immune therapies. There are good RCTs showing that supping vitamin d helps these people. They use chemo drugs in MS, these drugs inhibit mitochondria and slow metabolism down.

Fresh lesions in MS people are positive for CA. They don't lack CA. What they lack are myelin proteins. http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/2811298

I don't know. I haven't been able to follow your thoughts on zinc finger/histidine at all. Your thoughts are all over the place, not cohesive, and you clearly need more time to get the ideas together in a way so that other people can actually try to understand them. I'm sure it all makes sense in your head, but many people here can't follow your train of thought sometimes. And as soon as someone comes in saying "hey 90% of diseases will come down to this" my bullshit sensors go off.

 

[Helen]

Matty,


I have no idea what is there so hard to understand. carbon anhydrase needs to be active, when it is not active it does not work. This causes CO2 retention.
This CO2 retention causes resp alkalosis plus met alkalosis as compensation.
histidine is needed to make CA enzyme active. Histidine is a part of myelin proteins. Just for you to know and it is one of its main functions, which I outlined in zinc finger protocol.

Do you see people with CO2 retention. you do, do you see them with resp alkalosis you do., do you see them with metabolic alkalosis, YES you do,

How many people do you see like that recently. TONS.

This is what I am talking about.

I keep telling you this and you are coming back at me with I am fixed. and stuff. feeling ok, and being balanced is 2 different things. I know your body chemistry. You just go into 4 highs when you increase metabolism or a little zinc.

For some reason you listened to me on RPF forum and you are not listening now.

CO2 is not delivered into the lungs. IS this hard to understand? Why , since MT is needed and histidine is down. That is why I am talking about zinc finger and Metalothionein.( MT) recently, and that is why I am telling you that you are wrong in reading PH in CFS and other cases.

And that is why I am trying to discuss this with you , instead I get some generalized personal comebacks.
I care about you to be healthy and to get it right so you can help people. I care less about being right or wrong. If I am wrong, I will admit it.

But now I am talking about MT and zinc finger. And trying to discuss it with you. Since I see tons of people retaining CO2 without being in respiratory acidosis , and actually being in resp alkalosis. I talked about it at RPF, this is what you also heard and you started to exercise increase protein, increase zinc. Increase zinc finger and MT. Do you see what I am saying?


It is crazy that I am trying to provide the info for you and you call me bullshit sensor. I wrote the info for you on Ray Peat, and you got better by doing those things. All I am saying now is that you have a wrong explanation of what is going on.

Anyway, I am sad that we cant discuss things normally.

 

[mattyb]

Are we still talking about MS? Because I am only talking about MS - I am not engaging in a conversation where we lump all medical problems into a single category. What evidence do you actually have that CA is dysregulated in MS? I can't find anything, the only study I found, which I just linked too, showed normal levels of CA in fresh lesions of people with MS. Also, we see high expiratory CO2. We don't run ABGs on people with MS very often. People with MS have enhanced carbohydrate oxidation, that's why the produce more CO2 despite having equivalent energy expenditure to normal people. See here: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0043675

Stop saying "oh you need histidine for such and such" - that's a ridiculous statement. Histidine is in everything. Virtually every single protein in the human body will have histidine in it's structure. It's ubiquitous. We can say silly statements like that about any protein, because they all matter in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Helen]

Matty,

Listen, you- are being ridiculous really, I am giving you a theory. Everything you talk about now, fasting, this and that is my theory that I outlined in RPF.

For some reason I hear insults from you into my direction? Buddy, you were sick for 2 years until I posted , so I guess I understand something correct.

I am talking about CFS , MS mostly. Histidine is low in MS. and CFS in serum,
That is why I'm talking about it. And it is not regulatory.

You had no fucking clue about histidine until I mentioned it. And now you put your bs sensors onto me? WTF?

http://www.encognitive.com/files/Urinary Histidine Excretion in Patients with Classical Allergy_1.pdf

Please read this carefully. and see why histidine goes down.

Long activation of allergies will causes low stomach acid and thus decreases histidine levels.

Your behaviour is very disrespectful.

I am trying to explain to you why you have high CO2 levels, with respiratory alkalosis and met alkalosis with people with CFS for instance. MS is the same.

I am saying that high CO2 levels are from inability to utilize CO2. Most those people have copper toxicity with free copper.

people with CFS have high metabolism? . LOL they have zero potassium in the cell. And taking potassium and magnesium makes them feel better, but they will never stay in the cell.


You have zero experience with this, and I do. Just take 10mg of copper for a week. You will have full blown IBS with constant diarrhea exactly the same as HerrFisch.

I see no reason to continue in this tone.

 

[mattyb]

Seriously? Now you are being disrespectful. I finished my thesis for my M.Sc. in 2015, and it was on fasting. I spent two years working on this subject and trained with an endocrinologist/cell biologist + pharmacist long before I ever knew who you were. From 2010-2014 I fasted all the time (before Peat). I have an exercise phys degree before that, I have always exercised and studied that, my honors supervisor for that was a respiratory therapist. I've worked with respirologists, resp therapists, sleep techs, for the last 1.5 years - that's where I learned about acid-base physiology. My ideas are my own ideas picked up from reading a ton, studying with good people, discussing things online with everyone, and working in research. This conversation is evidence that my ideas clearly differ from your own. I didn't read any of your posts until I was already making many of these lifestyle changes and having success, which is why I was happy to see someone with similar views to my own on RPF and jumped in to offer support - so don't say I am using "your theory". Don't try and do some bullshit like looking down on me and claim responsibility for my success, that is some disrespectful egotistical BS.

I'm not insulting you personally, I am just evaluating what you are saying and saying I disagree. If you are going to take it personally that is on you. I disagree with what you are saying, plain and simple. Maybe we should just leave it as an intellectual disagreement and move on. This is pointless high school drama bullshit.

 

[Helen]

LOL,. you got major ego problem.

Fasting for 2 years, knew everything, for 3 years, and got fixed only now. LOL

I careless about what you know and if you agree with me or not. I think you are wrong and you know it.

I am giving you the explanation of the PH readings. And you tell me how you fucking worked with some respiratory people? Obviously those people were clueless. Since if I would work in the respiratory research, I would definetely know that high CO2 is not from resp acidosis. And you did not. SO please spare me your bullshit on your titles and ideas.

We are all researching here and trying to help each other.

 

[mattyb]

Why are you jumping around like crazy? You edited your post now to talk about CFS? I was never talking about CFS. Quit jumping around. This thread is supposed to be about UC/IBD. I am going to move all this conversation somewhere else.

I disagree with you. You disagree with me. That's the nature of discussion. Just don't go making it personal, claiming bullshit like you were responsible for my own success. We never once discussed my health issues and you know it.

 

[Helen]

I always talked about CFS and MS. You just failed to read it. since you are too emotional LOL

Matty I am not claiming anything. I don't care. since I am just here for discussions. I don't give a **** about money. or fame. or anything of that nature.

You are not discussing anything with me. you are saying that you diagree with zero basis.

 

[Helen]

Matty, what I am saying one more time in CFS, there is high CO2 in venous blood. there is zero metabolism, low potassium in the cell. there is resp alkalosis and met alkalosis.

I am saying that the main disorder is inability to utilize CO2. This causes the body to hyperventilate and metabolic alkalosis.

I am saying that this inability to utilize Co2 is probably because of low histidine levels.

I would assume MS would be the same.

And I think those 2 conditions can be helped by promoting Metalotheionien.( MT) or zinc finger which is basically the same.

 

[tallglass13]

mattyb wrote-What are you talking about? "This is my case"? I don't have a case, I am healthy - no issues.
but you are bald? Of course I know healthy people can be bald, but it is systemic, and I think in the right chemistry, we wouldn't have hair loss.

 

[mattyb]

Just an FYI, after re-reading some of your edited posts and that I missed - just to clarify. Our MS people have high CO2 on OXIMETRY. We measure oximetry here more often. They produce tons of CO2 because they over metabolize glucose (also a function of enhanced immune activity), they don't hypoventilate unless they are super late stage and have problems with respiratory muscles. That means CA function is fine if CO2 is getting to the lungs, because CA needs to function for conversion to CO2 at the lungs.

Their acidosis is more due to lactic acidosis and excess CO2 production from excessive carbohydrate oxidation (like the study I linked to earlier). It is different than respiratory acidosis from hypoventilation. This is why it's important not to jump around topics, because these things get mixed up.

I don't think any of us give a shit about fame or credit. We are anonymous people on a message board discussing things because we are interested. So don't go and claim you're responsible for others success, because then it sounds a lot like you care about getting credit.

 

[Helen]

Matty, all I care about it the truth. Trust me.

 

[mattyb]

mattyb wrote-What are you talking about? "This is my case"? I don't have a case, I am healthy - no issues.
but you are bald? Of course I know healthy people can be bald, but it is systemic, and I think in the right chemistry, we wouldn't have hair loss.

I lost my hair 11 years ago when all I was severely depressed, before I ever cared about health or exercising or doing anything. I had no purpose then, I was definitely unhealthy in every sense of the word. I haven't lost any additional hair for about the last 5-6 years.