gbold and mattyb disagree about things?

[HerrFisch]

Wuf has UC? And he took copper? Shoot.

Yes, I never saw him mentioning it, so I made him mention it in his log. Even if PFS is his problem he wants to solve, UC needs to be kept in mind too. @wuf

 

[Helen]

I said MT or zinc finger will help CFS. not histidine. where do you guys see histidine only. Look on the interent, Metalothionien promotion by Pfifier.

Methylation is needed for Cysteine production. Cysteine is a part of the zinc finger

 

[Canari]

But probably the worst of all was the chemical sensitivities. I seldom left my home, my children couldn't even invite friends over because I'd react to the fragrances on their clothes, and I had what back then was referred to as environmental illness.

They also call it sensibilidad química múltiple, multi-chemical sensitivity I'd say, a neighbour and friend of mine has the worse stage of it.... I have the mildest...
- I have to hold breath to kiss and hug many people and especially women with make-up, yuk they stick...
- I can have to wash second hand clothes 5 times with baking soda and leave them in the sun for removing detergent smell!
- I have my sleeping bag and very often remove sheets in B&B...
- I use a mask in planes, to not arrive with a head-ache
- I sneeze only with molds!

And you did not have any electric sensitivity?

 

[Helen]

when I got sick with lymphoma, I remember I had crazy sensitivities. I had to move 3 times within 3 months. It was insane. Also I could not tolerate any computers or cell phones. It was really bad

 

[HerrFisch]

They also call it sensibilidad química múltiple, multi-chemical sensitivity I'd say, a neighbour and friend of mine has the worse stage of it.... I have the mildest...
- I have to hold breath to kiss and hug many people and especially women with make-up, yuk they stick...
- I can have to wash second hand clothes 5 times with baking soda and leave them in the sun for removing detergent smell!
- I have my sleeping bag and very often remove sheets in B&B...
- I use a mask in planes, to not arrive with a head-ache
- I sneeze only with molds!

And you did not have any electric sensitivity?

@Canari I think that was a quote from that forum. Its not gbold saying that

 

[Canari]

I think we are mainly brain-storming about topic that science / medecine has not solved. More over, doctors often have things bad and tell people "it is in their head" when they do not know. Or genetic and aging etc. So, on one side, we cannot trust science that much... and we are trying to use science at the same time too! Controverse will happen inevitably.

I liked it quite a lot when we did not look that much at studies, focused on mineral balancing, optimizing diet, using fast, herbs, light, exercise, breathing, meditation, LIFE-STYLE in general.

We need I think on the forum, one part about trying things that we are more or less quite stable with, and understand + one part for brainstorming and theories that are trying to go ahead of our times and for new breakthroughs...

I think this new bone to study and gnaw at, the zinc finger histidine glutamate copper and more.... has destibilize some people who rushed too quick for trying, and it is good that it has been edited and changed to discussion, and NOT a protocol. Let's be careful, we are on a forum without knowing the background of people, from emotional sensibility to knowledge and faculty of understanding, brain fog and translation or cultural issues! and smilies are a poor replacement of human real interaction!

Edit: right Herrfisch, this is a quote. But people that had problems with toxic and heavy metal like gbol had mentionned before, often result in electric sensitibity. Many of my neigghbours have this, they come here because our place is quite safe.

 

[TubZy]

Disagreement is what moves science forwards- thanks @gbolduev and @mattyb for the stimulating discussion

x2..it is healthy

 

[HerrFisch]

I agree, this is why I started this discussion with Matty, about UC and stuff. his version is that low histidine is regulatory. But for some reason increasing histidine with b6 and zinc which raises histamines cures IBS. SO I guess it is not regulatory.

If this was regulatory and it was too much histamine activation , then giving histidine with b6 and zinc make the IBS worse. But it makes it better.

Was that not histidine with zinc but without b6?
https://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2110659

With b6 HDC would be up and you would get pretty high histamine levels from histidine again. ?
Zinc and manganese would inhibit the release of histamine from the mast cell. And you want to keep zinc when histidine chelates it.

 

[Helen]

I think you are right, may be without b6

I think I am wrong on this part and you dont want to increase histamine production.

I still think though when your histamine levels are low. receptors are high and that is when you get histamine activation from the mast cells. This is why when you take copper, you lower your histamine systemically, but you increase your histamine reactions from foods since DAO enzyme will lower histamine levels.

since in histapenia ( low histamine ) you get food allergies.

In histadelia( high histamine) you dont get food allergies.

http://www.gethelpfordepression.info/overmethylation.aspx

 

[Helen]

That is why when you lower your copper levels, you will have slow release of histamine, even if your production is super high.

 

[Helen]

That is why even in PFS I said that different parts of zinc finger can be upregulated or downregulated. Basically having 2 different protocols.

 

[Helen]

for one protocol , I guess it could be methionine copper potassium magnesium this increases cysteine and for another I guess it is to increase histidine and histamines with histidine zinc manganese etc

These are basically the supplements for fast and slow oxidizers at ARL. for fast oxidizers they give SBF formula, which is copper magnesium potassium and methionine. And for slow oxidizers they give b vitamins , zinc manganese

 

[Helen]

For fast oxidizer= https://www.wellnessshoppingonline.com/endo-met-supplements/endo-met-sbf-formula-90-tablets/

for slow oxidizer= https://www.wellnessshoppingonline.com/endo-met-supplements/endo-met-megapan-90-tablets/

 

[tfcjesse]

For fast oxidizer= https://www.wellnessshoppingonline.com/endo-met-supplements/endo-met-sbf-formula-90-tablets/

for slow oxidizer= https://www.wellnessshoppingonline.com/endo-met-supplements/endo-met-megapan-90-tablets/

Their formula for fast oxidizers has neither cysteine nor histidine, would those have to be added?

 

[Helen]

it has methionine plus magnesium and copper which will make cysteine.

 

[Minime]

Problem that I found when resveratrol is that it chelates bioavailable copper.

I thought excess copper intake resulted in elevated Estrogen and resveratrol should be used to bring Estrogen back down. Is that incorrect?

 

[Aleksandr]

high Co2 output? , No it is not. it is high CO2 retention. since unable to recycle CA. They dont have resp acidosis. their metabolism is DOWN. I can prove it you with the hairtest. calcium in hair will be higher than norm.

I am not sure why you are not reading what I write? Simplifying things? this is more complicated than the current medical understanding.

I have no idea what you are taking about. I think you misunderstood me. What Ray Peat?

All I am saying to you , is that you reading PHs wrong. I am not focusing on one thing. I am telling that you are reading this particular situation WRONG

And your case is with respiratory acidosis as you told me with hives. Fixing it with food for the last 2 months is not being healthy. the underlying issue is still there. You force hyperventilaion by exercise. and this increases your metabolism. You call it getting rid of alkalosis, I said that you are wrong, and that the issue is deeper than you think. I can gaurantee you that if you do your hair now, you will be in 4 highs. And that is not balanced.


Matty, I am not promoting cure all approach. I promote read PHs correctly approach. And then find out what you are missing. But I am sure in 90% cases you will come back to MT and zinc finger unless some organ damage.

High CO2 dilemma was not solved before, since people had it with resp alkalosis at the same time and metabolic alkalosis at the same time LOL

It is not high CO2 output, it is high CO2 retention since not able to be utilized. CA needs to be made active.

Metabolism is super low in these situations.

I am for very systematic approach, especially with PHs values.

I suggested this CO2 retention idea before. All CFS people retain CO2, with resp alkalosis and met alkalosis for compensation.

Why would forcing hyperventilation put you in 4 highs? Do you think someone like a triathlete or holotrophic breathing practitioner would be in 4 highs?

it has methionine plus magnesium and copper which will make cysteine.

for the slow oxidiser endoment supplement i noticed it has vitamin d in it!!!

I guess for that one we're better off just supplementing histadine separately along with zinc + manganese? I'm a slow 4 so my thyroid and adrenals are already too fast, i don't think i need the b vitamins...

 

[posmo]

it has methionine plus magnesium and copper which will make cysteine.

Would a fast oxidizer take the SPF + histadine hcl? Or should only slow ox take the histadine?

There's some good lifestyle tips and info on that site.

 

[Canari]

I was going to re-edit but no....

Edit: right Herrfisch, this is a quote. But people that had problems with toxic and heavy metal like gbol had mentionned before, often result in electric sensitibity. Many of my neigghbours have this, they come here because our place is quite safe.

Also mattyB said that not everybody has had problems with chemicals and that gbol puts maybe too much emphasis on this because he had. Even if matty is right, my interest in my friend very high sensitivity has led me to understand many things that can happen at less intense level. After all, all that I call a post-use syndrome is about a quite sudden unbalance / allergy / intolerance, because of taking a "substance". If we talk about different protocols including histamine and -dine, it has to do with allergy. And when allergy is too strong, it means that the limbic brain has taken a habit, a route, and it also means that the ANS has viewed it as a threat! Even when chemical sensitive people recover, the LAST symptom that goes away is fragrance sensitivity.

I do agree with taking into account metal heavy metals and chemicals in the theories about "what happened to our bodies", because this is like using a magnifying glass over symptoms that are less obvious. And as you know, I think the nerves should be taken into account more, because they are the ones that give the orders to the endocrine system. Also, they are electric in nature, thus I think a link with electric sensitivities and metals in our bodies.

There's some good lifestyle tips and info on that site.

Welcome posmo! Thanks for joining and showing the 2 important things: we have to know what is for us among protocols, thus refine the "boxes" to find where we fit.
And we need to care about all aspects of life-style. After all, part of it is FREE healing.

 

[Helen]

Would a fast oxidizer take the SPF + histadine hcl? Or should only slow ox take the histadine?

There's some good lifestyle tips and info on that site.

People people. stop this histidine thing. It is not about histdine, it is about the balance in the zinc finger. and MT synthesis.

Why would fast oxidizer take histidine , if ARL gives them methionine?

I specifially mentioned what ARL gives people. You dont add stuff to it.

People can have high histidine and can really get worse if it gets higher since they can have glutamate problems.