Brainstorming & Ideas (PFS - Gbol)

[Helen]

I have fasted really long fasts, I measured ABG VBGs after on different refeeds. I see this situation completely differently.

I never go out of the fast on greens alone. one time I did that I put myself into crazy alkalosis. Green juices, greens are alkaline. And put you into alkalosis, same as drinking organic acids, like malic acid, citric, succinic. HCL, hydroniums are different it is a strong acid and instead of rising bicarbonate it will kill it.

People including me dont utilize Co2 properly, that is why we have compensation with met alkalosis. This is why when people eat less and eat greens this compensation gets even stronger. And then feel better. C02 production decreases and bicarbonate gets even higher.

the problem with HCL is that , HCL hits on this compensation very hard and lowers your potassium.


This is where the alkaline waters came around. Most people are with this Co2 problems, and alkaline waters basically do the same thing as greens in this respect. and breathing. They increase metabolic part of the compensation. Which increases potassium in the cell.

Zinc does the same.





Also HCL does nothing for the protein digestion. It is just a first step of breaking down protein. You need catalitic triad to even make the enzymes to get amino acids.

This is why in zinc finger protocol there is wobenzym. And catalitic triad aminos.

this is why I am asking not to use tons of HCL. it is worthless and will lower your thyroid effect.

 

[Orion]

I have fasted really long fasts, I measured ABG VBGs after on different refeeds. I see this situation completely differently.

I never go out of the fast on greens alone. one time I did that I put myself into crazy alkalosis. Green juices, greens are alkaline. And put you into alkalosis, same as drinking organic acids, like malic acid, citric, succinic. HCL, hydroniums are different it is a strong acid and instead of rising bicarbonate it will kill it.

People including me dont utilize Co2 properly, that is why we have compensation with met alkalosis. This is why when people eat less and eat greens this compensation gets even stronger. And then feel better. C02 production decreases and bicarbonate gets even higher.

the problem with HCL is that , HCL hits on this compensation very hard and lowers your potassium.


This is where the alkaline waters came around. Most people are with this Co2 problems, and alkaline waters basically do the same thing as greens in this respect. and breathing. They increase metabolic part of the compensation. Which increases potassium in the cell.

Zinc does the same.





Also HCL does nothing for the protein digestion. It is just a first step of breaking down protein. You need catalitic triad to even make the enzymes to get amino acids.

This is why in zinc finger protocol there is wobenzym. And catalitic triad aminos.

this is why I am asking not to use tons of HCL. it is worthless and will lower your thyroid effect.

What are your ideals for breaking long fasts as a slow oxidizer? what foods to focus on? what will increase HCl on its own?

 

[mattyb]

@gbolduev No one is going out of the fasts on greens alone. That is not the refeed I outlined. You can consume small amounts to begin with, and they are cooked. Consumed alongside other things like broth, some fats, very small amounts of well cooked protein, small amounts of starch, etc. No one is drinking green juices or anything like that.

The HCl is the first step to help digest. We provide the mineral substrates needed for that in K+, Cl-, H+, and Na+. The digestive enzymes like pepsin are activated by stomach acid. When we get stomach acid back online, protein is kept very well-cooked to facilitate denaturation, intake is increased slowly and gradually because the digestive proteases need time to be synthesized. The small amounts of protein that are consumed will be integrated into pepsin/trypsin/chemotrypsin gradually, and over time the person can handle larger and larger protein loads. Increasing HCl just puts the demand on the body to synthesize the digestive proteases, and we provide substrate for that at a slow rate that the body can adapt to.

I have talked about how I did this for myself. Greens/ACV/EVOO was the first step, done often for a few weeks, and then I started titrating up protein over time.

EDIT: I've never been one to recommend taking tons of betaine HCl. I want to increase endogenous production of HCl, not supplement it. I think in small amounts and for short periods of time it can be okay, but I am not a fan of these supplements coming in hard and fast. I want to massage the body slowly towards the ideal point. I treat this very similar to how I train people, I don't slam them hard and fast with a bunch of hard exercises. I titrate doses upwards gradually over long periods of time to get the adaptations I want. Nutrition is the same to me.

 

[Helen]

Matty,

yes, I go out from the fast on soups. And I find it the best way out of it. soups have cooked veggies, protein etc. My favourite is egg lemono. Works the best.

Adding cooked veggies separate.

 

[mattyb]

Avgolemono is great. I worked in a really good authentic greek restaurant for years when I was younger, I had it often. Delicious and great nutrition profile. I think many other soups can work well too though. Pho is great too, especially if you stir an egg into each bowl.

 

[Canari]

@gbolduev No one is going out of the fasts on greens alone. That is not the refeed I outlined. You can consume small amounts to begin with, and they are cooked. Consumed alongside other things like broth, some fats, very small amounts of well cooked protein, small amounts of starch, etc. No one is drinking green juices or anything like that.

Sorry but my results were super good with raw food.... I was doing veg juice, so then I could eat only the same veg but mashed with a ceramic grater. Then raw egg and raw meat.
I do not agree with well cooked protein, as it modifies the protein. Raw protein digests better!

 

[freeflow]

It has lead, very high lead. Even ARL advices against usage of ACV for that reason. Malic acid should be used instead.

Endotoxin which everyone is talking about is acetaldehyde. The yeast that you were talkinga bout , candida produces tons of ethanol which then gets stuck in acetaldehyde stage. Acetaldehyde causes histamine release since it shares the pathway with it. that is why I don't like to give any acetic acid also. Since it will stop acetaldehyde to acetic acid conversion.

To convert ethanol you need zinc, cysteine, NAD and histidine. To get rid of acetaldehyde, you need ALDH, and AO enzyme. which is NAD , cysteine, histidine, b2 and molybdenum

You see again we have zinc finger here and MT structure .

This is why if someone lets say has UC and produces tons of acetaldehyde. then he should stay away from it.

By the way acetaldehyde air levels in major cities are 20 times higher than norm. So this is the stimulation of your ROS that you were taking about. I have done a lot of research on it.

I think this is the culpit of major problems these days.


And this is the reason of constant unexplained inflammation in the body.

Man I am consuming brewers yeast for the last 3 days with betaine HCL. I ate 10-20gramms each day and my dick sensitivity is increased, also when I touch my balls its different!
I am also eating spinach or other greens 2-3 times a day!
Yesterday I felt like im drunk from the meal, like I drank alcohol and now I just read that candida produces ethanol!

 

[Helen]

Man I am consuming brewers yeast for the last 3 days with betaine HCL. I ate 10-20gramms each day and my **** sensitivity is increased, also when I touch my balls its different!
I am also eating spinach or other greens 2-3 times a day!
Yesterday I felt like im drunk from the meal, like I drank alcohol and now I just read that candida produces ethanol!

Brewest yeast is good, watch out for that high glutamic acid content. that is why it is a may be in zinc finger protocol. Spinach is very good.

 

[freeflow]

Brewest yeast is good, watch out for that high glutamic acid content. that is why it is a may be in zinc finger protocol. Spinach is very good.

Also, I forgot Im using magnesium oil every evening for the last 3 days. I have a lot of dreams on this protocol and erections are stronger. This is doing something for sure.

 

[Namelk]

@gbolduev @mattyb

I am an accutane sufferer at 3 years old, and I am taking finasteride, I intend to take it for 28 to 30 days following almost the same way as the boys who have recovered from accutane problems, given the explanation of potassium in the cells, I practice bodybuilding and I take 420 mg of caffeine before going to the gym 5 to 6 days a week (I'm already very resistant to the effects of caffeine by already being accustomed to taking it for a long time, taking the coffee I drink almost every morning too, 500 to 550 mg per day), this may interfere with something on those days that I am taking finasteride, do you recommend I stop with caffeine also on these days I am taking finasteride? I feel very tired all the time since I took accutane and the caffeine helps me a bit in weight lifting (I've been practicing bodybuilding for 5 years)

 

[TubZy]

Man I am consuming brewers yeast for the last 3 days with betaine HCL. I ate 10-20gramms each day and my **** sensitivity is increased, also when I touch my balls its different!
I am also eating spinach or other greens 2-3 times a day!
Yesterday I felt like im drunk from the meal, like I drank alcohol and now I just read that candida produces ethanol!

I think @gbolduev mentioned zinc carnosine for Candida but not sure if that was only for UC people though.

Also, betaine HCL works on Candida too, which you are already taking.

 

[Ailaeshiz]

So the people who recover from accutane using finasteride, are they agonized or antagonized?

 

[Admiral]

I will wait for the well informed gents here to come up with a specific protocol, but until then, is there a mini-protocol I could follow that could be beneficial for my 13 year old progressing PFS symptoms?

I have low hormones (only IGF-1 is through the roof), mostly horrible physical sides and some lack of energy and poor sleep quality.

Contemplating using progesterone cream, since it is, alongside cortisol and DHEA baseline, resveratrol (I have very low E) and DHT boosters (baseline). Also am taking Hcl since today.

Going on TRT with NTD is really, really tempting as well. But I really hope there’s a more, riskfree protocol to try.

Anyone willing to provide his two cents? Would appreciate it a bunch!

 

[Goose12]

I will wait for the well informed gents here to come up with a specific protocol, but until then, is there a mini-protocol I could follow that could be beneficial for my 13 year old progressing PFS symptoms?

I have low hormones (only IGF-1 is through the roof), mostly horrible physical sides and some lack of energy and poor sleep quality.

Contemplating using progesterone cream, since it is, alongside cortisol and DHEA baseline, resveratrol (I have very low E) and DHT boosters (baseline). Also am taking Hcl since today.

Going on TRT with NTD is really, really tempting as well. But I really hope there’s a more, riskfree protocol to try.

Anyone willing to provide his two cents? Would appreciate it a bunch!

@Cdsnuts protocol is a very good protocol to run and has been proven effective and safe.
The protocol can be found here
http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com

Here is the forum for people who are currently on the protocol
http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com

I have had a lot of progress on the protocol and the longer you are on it the faster the progress becomes. In the beginning progress is really slow and happens in baby steps.

 

[Admiral]

@Cdsnuts protocol is a very good protocol to run and has been proven effective and safe.
The protocol can be found here
http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com

Here is the forum for people who are currently on the protocol
http://www.totalmaleoptimization.com

I have had a lot of progress on the protocol and the longer you are on it the faster the progress becomes. In the beginning progress is really slow and happens in baby steps.

Thanks Goose! I’ve known CDnuts’ protocol from the propeciahelp website. Did a short water fast and all the rest, for except the DHT. Didn’t think it would be the answer when every hormone is baseline. Protocol didn’t seem to make a difference. Fasting and a low carb diet only seemed to make my thyroid more slugish.

 

[Goose12]

Thanks Goose! I’ve known CDnuts’ protocol from the propeciahelp website. Did a short water fast and all the rest, for except the DHT. Didn’t think it would be the answer when every hormone is baseline. Protocol didn’t seem to make a difference. Fasting and a low carb diet only seemed to make my thyroid more slugish.

There is much more to the protocol than diet and exercise. The herb cycling and r Andro cycle is the most important thing in the protocol.

There are other things in the protocol that are important too, like fasting, which can help jump start your hormones and increase baseline.

The cold water showers increase testosterone and can get our adrenaline working again because pfs puts us in a cortisol dominated state.

The breathing exercises help increase co2 production and get us out of an alkaline state.

Meditation helps reduce cortisol and can create positive epigenetic changes.

A Paleo diet, even if you don't go low carb is extremely healthy compared to our modern diet. Also the topic on this forum latley has been Histadine and CDnuts recommends staying away from gluten and other allergens, so this helps build back up our Histadine stores.

There is still a lot more to the protocol and a lot of people who are seeing progress and there are some recovery stories on swole source. You should really check it out.

 

[Admiral]

Thanks again Goose. I did most of it, except the breathing and DHT creams. Maybe I’ll do it all once more in a few weeks.

I am thinking of progesterone cream first. But I wonder if it’s a smart idea when my estrogen levels are already in the plummer. Any suggestions?

 

[Helen]

Thanks again Goose. I did most of it, except the breathing and DHT creams. Maybe I’ll do it all once more in a few weeks.

I am thinking of progesterone cream first. But I wonder if it’s a smart idea when my estrogen levels are already in the plummer. Any suggestions?

Check out zinc finger thread. we are all hanging out there now. not here. A lot of people are trying it out.

 

[TubZy]

I was thinking about removing the clomid protocol as no one had success with it and just keeping it as a water/breuss fast in its place instead.

What do you guys think? I think it can be confusing to new members and there are better and safer ways over tackling the same issue

 

[stefoo2]

I was thinking about removing the clomid protocol as no one had success with it and just keeping it as a water/breuss fast in its place instead.

What do you guys think? I think it can be confusing to new members and there are better and safer ways over tackling the same issue

Great idea. Im new here and it's a huge chore trying to figure out which are working.