Fighting….

[esp90]

no i followed the advice of grant genereux, the founder of the idea Ideas, Concepts, and Observations


how do you know you're copper toxic? i thought copper was supposed to push you into a calcium shell, wouldn't have thought it was possible to be copper toxic and 4 lows.

Yeah apparently 4 lows is an indicator of hidden copper toxicity, and on the last test i did where I was no longer in 4 lows i was in calcium shell. My calcium is at 165. My Ca/K ratio is 165, so extremely slow oxidizer

 

[Yura]

Yeah I think 4 lows are complete burnout where your body can't even mobilize calcium. I wonder how much vit A can increse calcium on hair test. Probably a lot. I really did stupid stuff by ingesting insane amounts of vit A. Need to see hair test now after many years on low vit A..

 

[Yura]

I agree it healthier to focus on yourself and it's a better and healthier mindset. But as an example Brad Pitt is not just hair genetics. You can tell he has good genetics in general. That's why he has a good face too. Even without the hair he "looks good" because he was born very healthy. It's not just genetics as the output/results of genetics are there when body is healthy. Could be that his father/mother was very healthy and/or he had a really good diet from a very young age.

Then you have some other dude born really unhealthy and being around other family members who are unhealthy where his/her whole life is an uphill battle just to stay afloat. That dynamic kinda gets to me.

But of course it can always be worse, you can be born crippled, dwarfism, cancer, etc. And bad things can always happen in life too.

So I'm not trying to be negative and yes I always think of people who have it harder than me to not be a spoiled brat. Incl. some people who are still dealing with PFS. I don't see myself as unlucky or a victim.

But I also realise that there is massive differences between humans and since I improved my health I have noticed this more. When I was very sick I couldn't care about it, I wanted to feel good in that moment because I felt like shit all the time. But now I notice how unbalanced the game of life is. And people always talk to you as if you have the same chances are Brad Pitt lol. "Just work hard bro!"

And yes even people who are healthy can be depressed. So I guess life is all about how you look at it. Your emotional state while experiencing it. I remember when I was sick sometimes I had days where I felt incredible happiness just being alive. I still look back even in the times I had PFS sometimes with positivity because I had some beautiful moments. For example during COVID I was walking in the forests a lot which were completely empty at the start. It was very quiet. I loved it. While other people were crying that they couldn't be social with their friends. It's all about perspective.

I was also alone during PFS as nobody wanted to be around me in real life. Which I now kind of look back to as a nice moment in my life lol. Really weird. The battle of PFS for me was a reason to live. And then I got out and I lost a battle/reason to live. If you tell people this in PFS they'd say you are crazy probably.

Also I think the reason why I might be more negative is my diet. Not sure.

You need to realize as well that those people with crazy good genetics and easy life often times don't know how to deal with struggles in life. Because they never needed to suffer and push through some deep hole full of shit. So something even stupid happens to him and he will end up on meds, drugs, alcohol or even killing himself due to some really stupid shit like not getting the job he wanted or girl said to him to fuck off. That is advantage we have. I mean my fucking whole life is a fucking joke and shit show. Do you think It will crash me if something not so nice will happen to me? No I will just say "here we go again" and push through, keep grinding and along the way I will be happy for small things.. You have to realize that it is all relative and it is all about the perspective. You are watching at that chad genetic freak how amazing life he has meanwhile he is struggling in his head due to really stupid, artificial reasons.. Because he simply doesn't have that perspective what is real struggle. Some people are happy because they can walk that day and that genetic freak chad with nice girl next to him is fucked up in his head because he can't gain another 2kg of muscles or whatever.. You saw it for example during COVID era. Some people were completely fine and some people committed suicide because they couldn't go to their favorite club or something. Do you really envy life of those people? Basically you don't know how it feels to feel really good if you never felt really bad. I mean living that you want to die not flu for 2 days.. You will never appreciate warm shower if you never had really cold one. Or you think that people in Florida appreciate nice sunny days as people somewhere where it's cold and rainy 95% of a time? Those people you are talking about simply don't know how all this spectrum feels. So any small dip in his quality of whatever and they struggle to cope with it. That's why you see all those people using drugs, doing stupid stuff all the time. Because they feel like shit at the same time you watch them and envy them their life.. Anyways just something to think about..

 

[Aleksandr]

You need to realize as well that those people with crazy good genetics and easy life often times don't know how to deal with struggles in life. Because they never needed to suffer and push through some deep hole full of shit. So something even stupid happens to him and he will end up on meds, drugs, alcohol or even killing himself due to some really stupid shit like not getting the job he wanted or girl said to him to fuck off. That is advantage we have. I mean my fucking whole life is a fucking joke and shit show. Do you think It will crash me if something not so nice will happen to me? No I will just say "here we go again" and push through, keep grinding and along the way I will be happy for small things.. You have to realize that it is all relative and it is all about the perspective. You are watching at that chad genetic freak how amazing life he has meanwhile he is struggling in his head due to really stupid, artificial reasons.. Because he simply doesn't have that perspective what is real struggle. Some people are happy because they can walk that day and that genetic freak chad with nice girl next to him is fucked up in his head because he can't gain another 2kg of muscles or whatever.. You saw it for example during COVID era. Some people were completely fine and some people committed suicide because they couldn't go to their favorite club or something. Do you really envy life of those people? Basically you don't know how it feels to feel really good if you never felt really bad. I mean living that you want to die not flu for 2 days.. You will never appreciate warm shower if you never had really cold one. Or you think that people in Florida appreciate nice sunny days as people somewhere where it's cold and rainy 95% of a time? Those people you are talking about simply don't know how all this spectrum feels. So any small dip in his quality of whatever and they struggle to cope with it. That's why you see all those people using drugs, doing stupid stuff all the time. Because they feel like shit at the same time you watch them and envy them their life.. Anyways just something to think about..

 

[esp90]

Yeah I think 4 lows are complete burnout where your body can't even mobilize calcium. I wonder how much vit A can increse calcium on hair test. Probably a lot. I really did stupid stuff by ingesting insane amounts of vit A. Need to see hair test now after many years on low vit A..

Apparently both Arl and TEI use specifically vit A to raise calcium on hair test. But you should raise it with magnesium instead if you are afraid of vit A toxicity

 

[Yura]

@esp90 that is interesting. So now I wonder if my high calcium was not from calcium shell due to copper toxicity, but from vit A toxicity.. Because I really ingested insane amounts of vit A in all kinds of form over the years.. It is crazy because my blood tests are textbook copper deficiency. Low white blood cells, low neutrophils, low estrogen, low serum copper.. BUT I never did some crazy high doses of zinc not even 30mg over long period of the time and I was always eating stuff like buckwheat that is high in copper. When I look at cronometer I would have always at least 1.5-2mg of copper in a diet which should be plenty and the fact that I saw on a blood test insanely high free copper where ceruloplasmin was not elevated at all. I wonder if that is even possible if someone has copper deficiency. I don't think so.. I wish I have done blood tests during the time before I crashed. I think I would saw very high ceruloplasmin, copper and estrogen. That was time when I was on steroids not taking antiestrogens so my estradiol was very high.. Once I stopped taking steroids estrogen crashed as well and I think ceruloplasmin crashed as well and so there was a lot of free copper and that damaged my body like crazy. I felt like my whole body skin, skeleton, cardiovascular system everything aged like 50 years in like couple of months. I am not kidding..

 

[bruschi11]

weak moment the other night. Drank alcohol. 4 legitimate beers. Two day hangover the second day the worst as it always was for me.

Well I said let’s just see what happened in Oligo results. Iodine usage got way worse and I think it caused the bh4 system to really die. Same with vitamin A. It elevated so it’s usage got worse.

B12 usage got better, b6 worse. Have to see that it’s really not about using b12 it’s about activating b6 through the bh4 cycle and D receptor. D is getting better.

Chromium has improved in last week or so and I think that’s why b12 and D are running so steady. Need electrolytes for GTP which is main cofactor for both bh4 and A metabolism , sulfur metabolism .

 

[RebelWithACause]

I took vitamin A once as a test and felt like worse on it. Never took it again. So I might also have a bit of Vitamin A toxicity.

That being said I feel decent now. And I can eat dairy without problems. Which also contain Vitamin A. Not sure what the deal is. Probably not good to supp fat soluble vitamins.

 

[RebelWithACause]

You need to realize as well that those people with crazy good genetics and easy life often times don't know how to deal with struggles in life. Because they never needed to suffer and push through some deep hole full of shit. So something even stupid happens to him and he will end up on meds, drugs, alcohol or even killing himself due to some really stupid shit like not getting the job he wanted or girl said to him to fuck off. That is advantage we have. I mean my fucking whole life is a fucking joke and shit show. Do you think It will crash me if something not so nice will happen to me? No I will just say "here we go again" and push through, keep grinding and along the way I will be happy for small things.. You have to realize that it is all relative and it is all about the perspective. You are watching at that chad genetic freak how amazing life he has meanwhile he is struggling in his head due to really stupid, artificial reasons.. Because he simply doesn't have that perspective what is real struggle. Some people are happy because they can walk that day and that genetic freak chad with nice girl next to him is fucked up in his head because he can't gain another 2kg of muscles or whatever.. You saw it for example during COVID era. Some people were completely fine and some people committed suicide because they couldn't go to their favorite club or something. Do you really envy life of those people? Basically you don't know how it feels to feel really good if you never felt really bad. I mean living that you want to die not flu for 2 days.. You will never appreciate warm shower if you never had really cold one. Or you think that people in Florida appreciate nice sunny days as people somewhere where it's cold and rainy 95% of a time? Those people you are talking about simply don't know how all this spectrum feels. So any small dip in his quality of whatever and they struggle to cope with it. That's why you see all those people using drugs, doing stupid stuff all the time. Because they feel like shit at the same time you watch them and envy them their life.. Anyways just something to think about..

Very true. I never thought about it but yes I know some people like that who have good genetics and their problems are very superficial. When you go through sickness your threshold is much higher for how much you can handle mentally. For example if someone had a crash like me or other people on this forum which I had like 50 of lmao they would probably go to the hospital or a psychiatrist.

 

[esp90]

Very true. I never thought about it but yes I know some people like that who have good genetics and their problems are very superficial. When you go through sickness your threshold is much higher for how much you can handle mentally. For example if someone had a crash like me or other people on this forum which I had like 50 of lmao they would probably go to the hospital or a psychiatrist.

What stopped your hairloss?

 

[Yura]

Morley should be 73yo. My 72yo father after prostate cancer removal who has no idea about healthy diet or any of that still looks 20 years younger. Crazy how that copper and vit A is aging him..

 

[RebelWithACause]

What stopped your hairloss?

you have to fix your metabolism. I don't have regrowth so there is still stuff wrong somewhere. But I never got progression further into MPB. Once you get out of hypothyroid state and sugar/fat metabolism works and nothing that lowers your glutathione constantly I imagine you get regrowth. I don't know. I'm not there yet. So I don't take stuff to stop it except I do take some chelation stuff in cycles. It just stopped falling out and never have the MPB/DHT itch anymore.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Morley should be 73yo. My 72yo father after prostate cancer removal who has no idea about healthy diet or any of that still looks 20 years younger. Crazy how that copper and vit A is aging him..

it's like that website that helen showed which promoted copper and you just go crazy lol. I think Morley Robbins just tunnel visions focus on copper and forgets everything else and he also takes high dosage magnesium i think which can lower iron (and nitric oxide). Although liver contains iron but not sure if that is enough. Everything about his protocol is just bad and the idea that eating liver is healthy is so overrated.

I see a lot of TikTok influencers promoting eating liver inspired by Aajonus Vonderplanitz just complete quackery and you'll end up sicker than ever after a few years. It's better to eat simple carbs than to eat liver in my opinion... it's just nonsense.

I thought Aajonus also looked bad at the end of his life. And he was a huge promoter of organ meats, liver, a lot of meat in general, etc. He looked healthy for a while but then once you go over the threshold you start to go bad. Dry skin, red skin, hairloss, hypothyroidism.

You actually made a good post I think on Ray Peat a long time ago which said you need small amounts of copper. Not huge dosages like in liver. Liver is just weird idea that it's healthy so you need to eat it daily and shit. Crazy stuff

With a vegan diet you get copper and potassium at least. Not just a shot of minerals like in liver.

And of course remember Helen said the reason why liver is high in copper is because it's stored by the animal. Just like the iron, vitamin A. And also toxic metals. So if Morley eats a lot of liver he probably gets a lot of toxic metals too.

But I have to add I know one guy who does good on liver (for now) and he looks healthier because of it. I imagine he is a fast oxidizer, he does sports a lot. So he might need it. He has very good collagen production. So again we go back to metabolism. But at 70 no way you have a very high metabolism unless you are some crazy outlier

 

[Yura]

As long as you can keep that copper bioavailable and you have plenty of zinc to balance it I think you do good on it. Once adrenals with ceruloplasmin crashes it's a wrap.. Like in my case. I really don't know how to rise it. Btw I was considering like 10g of beef liver a day. It would give me around 1mg of copper and around 35% of RDA for vitamin A.. I do wonder how looks my vitamin A status after 7-8 years of low vit A diet.. I really have to be on a program and follow it like a robot like when I did bodybuilding and followed my bodybuilding routine.. Because otherwise I will go nowhere that's for sure. It seems like every time my health gets little better I forget about focusing on keep improving, keep testing etc. and I just start to do some stupid dumb shit that is destructive for me and I crash even harder..
Btw I was thinking a lot about vit A and how it influences the hair test. If vit A increases calcium which it does. It pulls calcium from bones and tissues to the blood.. How the HTMA program can know if this high calcium is calcium shell from burnout/copper toxicity or from vitamin A toxicity.. It seems that they don't even consider this possibility. They think all people are deficient in retinol because nobody eats liver, but as we know that is not the case for people who are trying to "eat healthy"..
At this point I think my best chance to simply have RDA for everything in a diet. Keep mental stress low and just be positive and testing blood/hair to see what is going on. If copper is dumping or whatever..
Right now my issues are from my copper is getting lower and lower with that I have no white blood cells aka immune system and my estradiol is almost out of ref. range low like I am on some anti estrogens.. So now I really don't know if I should drop all copper antagonists and even really try like 5-10g bites of beef liver daily or do the complete opposite to increase all copper antagonists to hope in some copper dumps and detox.. I think if I do the second option I will kill myself from zero copper in the blood lol.. I will do blood test fro vitamin A which I never did. There was no lab that can do it. Now I know one.. So if the number will be very low or deficient I will try some very small bites of liver.. If it's in the middle of the range I will keep eating low vit A..

 

[RebelWithACause]

As long as you can keep that copper bioavailable and you have plenty of zinc to balance it I think you do good on it. Once adrenals with ceruloplasmin crashes it's a wrap.. Like in my case. I really don't know how to rise it. Btw I was considering like 10g of beef liver a day. It would give me around 1mg of copper and around 35% of RDA for vitamin A.. I do wonder how looks my vitamin A status after 7-8 years of low vit A diet.. I really have to be on a program and follow it like a robot like when I did bodybuilding and followed my bodybuilding routine.. Because otherwise I will go nowhere that's for sure. It seems like every time my health gets little better I forget about focusing on keep improving, keep testing etc. and I just start to do some stupid dumb shit that is destructive for me and I crash even harder..
Btw I was thinking a lot about vit A and how it influences the hair test. If vit A increases calcium which it does. It pulls calcium from bones and tissues to the blood.. How the HTMA program can know if this high calcium is calcium shell from burnout/copper toxicity or from vitamin A toxicity.. It seems that they don't even consider this possibility. They think all people are deficient in retinol because nobody eats liver, but as we know that is not the case for people who are trying to "eat healthy"..
At this point I think my best chance to simply have RDA for everything in a diet. Keep mental stress low and just be positive and testing blood/hair to see what is going on. If copper is dumping or whatever..
Right now my issues are from my copper is getting lower and lower with that I have no white blood cells aka immune system and my estradiol is almost out of ref. range low like I am on some anti estrogens.. So now I really don't know if I should drop all copper antagonists and even really try like 5-10g bites of beef liver daily or do the complete opposite to increase all copper antagonists to hope in some copper dumps and detox.. I think if I do the second option I will kill myself from zero copper in the blood lol.. I will do blood test fro vitamin A which I never did. There was no lab that can do it. Now I know one.. So if the number will be very low or deficient I will try some very small bites of liver.. If it's in the middle of the range I will keep eating low vit A..

Just drop the anti copper stuff and it will rise again. I had the same when i took a lot of anti copper stuff it is exactly like low estrogen and feels like crap. But you don;'t have to go out of your way to eat high copper stuff from my experience. It takes a few days

 

[Yura]

Ok zinc, molybdenum, high dose vit C for sure. But should I drop chormium as well? I take like 200mcg capsule every other day..

 

[RebelWithACause]

Ok zinc, molybdenum, high dose vit C for sure. But should I drop chormium as well? I take like 200mcg capsule every other day..

I'd just drop it all and see how you feel. Then start again if you feel like it improves you over time.
If you feel a crash after this that's normal from my exp. when I stopped supplements a few days I feel kinda crappier. Then new baseline is noticable.

 

[bruschi11]

Really bad morning. 2.5 days without hormones. I just put them in.

I scanned before putting in. Chromium/ selenium minerals are all pretty much same as other day nothing much has changed there…. But vitamin D is dropping.

With that goes b12 and b6.

I think it’s the b2 pathway. It just dies as D dies.

Why is D dying? Is it the lack of hormones?

Also the other piece in oligoscan. Potassium best I’ve seen it .

 

[Yura]

@bruschi11 you have your own oligoscan machine? How much it cost?

 

[bruschi11]

@bruschi11 you have your own oligoscan machine? How much it cost?

Something like 2.6k but then shipping another 200. Holiday deal. I think that company sells for 3-3.5 they’re IHT in Orlando they sell it as oligocheck.

I think it’s possible you can get oligoscan device for 6-700 then buy 50 scans for 1250 from IHT. So you can make it less than 2k for sure