Fighting….

Yura

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@bruschi11 "Maybe I’ll start really trying something different here like bone broths. Or just take freaking collagen every morning like I did when I recovered from pfs lol."
I don't know why people are making broths from bones when it is not that high in collagen at all.. Pigs feet and skin on the other hand is basically nothing but collagen.
People in Asia know why they are making broths mostly from pigs feet and skin or even chicken feet etc.. In Western world everyone would tell you that's disgusting, but it works. for people in Asia to keep their connective tissues healthy to old age..
 

bruschi11

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@bruschi11 "Maybe I’ll start really trying something different here like bone broths. Or just take freaking collagen every morning like I did when I recovered from pfs lol."
I don't know why people are making broths from bones when it is not that high in collagen at all.. Pigs feet and skin on the other hand is basically nothing but collagen.
People in Asia know why they are making broths mostly from pigs feet and skin or even chicken feet etc.. In Western world everyone would tell you that's disgusting, but it works. for people in Asia to keep their connective tissues healthy to old age..
Interesting. F the bone broth I’ll just get collagen.

My glycine dropped in aminos with the high sugar pro thyroid approach while on Reta. I saw it as bad thing and it is ultimately but it really isn’t as step 1 was being taken care of. Now how to get to glycine.

Choline is probably the real one here.
 

Yura

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@bruschi11 also taking hydrolyzed collagen with muscle meat I am eating, but not sure if it's a good idea due to lead content of most collagen supplements.. I would love to just eat animals nose to tail. But unfortunately I don't do well on high saturated fat/cholesterol diet..
 

bruschi11

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I might be moving from Reta to Elora.

The 5ht-2c agonism by the GLP1s could be what make them the worst drugs in the world long term.

I think maybe this is what converts progesterone to cortisol….

We want thyroid to do that. Not a drug.

Let’s remember. That guy bruschi11 decided to use cyproheptadine and then mirtazapine in 2016/2017 in order to block 5ht-2c and keep cortisol down. (Ray peat inspired)

I mean today is bad. Real bad. Scary bad. Everyday is tho. It’s a really bad life.

I can’t believe this all happened to me.
 
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bruschi11

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I injected Reta again. Couldn’t help myself.

I think I’m just leaking fucking progesterone . Such a horrid approach GLP1s if so
 

bruschi11

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What are the dangers of reta? I understand the benefits but people are selling it as if it is some type of miracle drug.

Basically opposite of what we want for majority with chronic illness. gLP1 causes progesterone depletion by activating 5h1-2c serotonin receptor. Causes prog—> cort.

Ray Peat would hateeeee this.

It’s supposed to be done with thyroid.
 

bruschi11

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Elora is good it seems. I did my 3rd injection yesterday .

Went from .25x2 last week. To .5x2 tthis week.

We will see how things go. Working a lot . Like tons. And not eating much. But trying to maintain sugar with orange juice.

I’m trying to lose weight and turn metabolism on simultaneously which is just tough on co2 .

Iodine is what gives me most hope. That this is about t4 the engine and allow the things that make t4 next to iodine and convert that t3 (selenium utilization) are the things that matter most here .
 

bruschi11

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I went on TRT for the chromium reason. But if it really ERb for glucagon reception that testosterone really benefits and tyrosine retainment for thyroid? I’m starting to think the latter 2 is more where test is needed.

The chromium issue is glucagon insulin amylin related.

I’m scared about Elora not gonna lie. So I feel obligated while taking it to lose as much weight as possible.. but again gotta watch my sugar on the CGM closely. Follow blood pressure. Etc
 

bruschi11

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b12 without iodine basically raises insulin is how I see it smh
 

bruschi11

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Think it’s time to really start doing Epsom salt or mag chloride baths.

Cu1 (thyroid cu2) + nad = b2 to fmn is really what I’m saying now. Fmn demands mag.

Cu1+ nad raises homocysteine from
Sah pressuring b12 and zinc

Added Reta yesterday. Elora is the base I’ll be taking every 3rd day. But Reta is gonna go in lower dose every 4th 5th 6th day. We are gonna see .

i think i gotta be fair to myself and stop looking at the beginning of August as my cut phase. It was a disaster i put the Elora in.which was only like 11 days ago? And im only really started the diet for a full week next to it. Im down 4 lbs. I started at 241 now 237.

Let’s say I started August 7th. 7 is a big number for me. It’s what I wore in sports for high school. Let’s say I’m only about 9 days in.

Because Elora is so easy to take and doesn’t hurt me. I’m gonna say let’s shoot for 2 months. October 2nd would make it an 8 week cycle. October 9th a 9 week.

That range seems right for Elora as the main player with help from Reta is how I’m seeing it.

PS I’m really so fucked up still neurologically but I’ve gotten legit morning erections for a full week straight now. Where I wake up and I really can’t pee in a toilet until I control it or I just pee in shower lol.
 

bruschi11

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Everything I’m saying is basically

Cu without thyroid is pro insulin anti potassium .

The Gbold consensus and I think many see it this way::: Thyroid pressuring potassium magnesium chloride essentially makes thyroid something you want to push last. Focus on fixing electrolytes in cell before pushing thyroid is that mindset. So focus on nad and methylation etc to put chloride in the cell.

I get it. That shit does need to happen.

But it’s completely neglecting the fact that cu2 is the insulin raising mineral. Legit. Strongly. Cu1 isn’t.

Thyroid is the key for cu2 to cu1.

Cu1 and nad convert sah to homocysteine. It is sah that was very high for me in 2023 the only methylation panel I’ve ever done. Supposedly many if not most with chronic illness have high sah.

I think this is why b5 helps so many. It just keeps tyrosine afloat with the bh4 cycle thriving and thyroid runs assuming iodine is in the body.

For me…. All those years. Of ups and downs. Thyroid was running enough. Until it wasn’t.

Were the good things I was doing eventually depleting iodine? Or was iodine depleted literally in 2011/2012 when my problems started originally?

What a life.
 

RebelWithACause

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I wonder if there is a protocol which does not require a ton of supplements. Like I saw Helen talk about EDTA + Malic Acid for lead/aluminum toxicity. I sometimes down so much supplements I feel sick from it and I notice I just want to take breaks from it. I feel like it progresses my health and gets rid of problems but I also notice it's like throwing a nuke on perhaps a smaller issue and I find it hard to sustain.

There must be some sort of supportive simple protocol which makes you healthy even if it's a slower progress. One that gets rid of the toxicities and also makes sure you retain the important minerals. Even the basic health protocol has quite a bit of supps/factors in it. Electrolyte protocol even more.

Like fasting + refeeds + chelation. Like Helen suggested as well sometimes. Sounds much more appealing now. But I wonder how does the body fix it if you have deficiencies. I started disliking supplements the last few months. After downing so much of them through out the years.

Although Helen claimed real deficiencies were often rare as in: your body can retain the needed minerals from food in a week. But once you have toxicities in the brain it breaks this mechanism. I don't doubt it. I might try some sort of simple protocol this week and switch to that for a while. See what happens.

What do you guys think?
 
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zancek0

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I wonder if there is a protocol which does not require a ton of supplements. Like I saw Helen talk about EDTA + Malic Acid for lead/aluminum toxicity. I sometimes down so much supplements I feel sick from it and I notice I just want to take breaks from it. I feel like it progresses my health and gets rid of problems but I also notice it's like throwing a nuke on perhaps a smaller issue and I find it hard to sustain.

There must be some sort of supportive simple protocol which makes you healthy even if it's a slower progress. One that gets rid of the toxicities and also makes sure you retain the important minerals. Even the basic health protocol has quite a bit of supps/factors in it. Electrolyte protocol even more.

Like fasting + refeeds + chelation. Like Helen suggested as well sometimes. Sounds much more appealing now. But I wonder how does the body fix it if you have deficiencies. I started disliking supplements the last few months. After downing so much of them through out the years.

Although Helen claimed real deficiencies were often rare as in: your body can retain the needed minerals from food in a week. But once you have toxicities in the brain it breaks this mechanism. I don't doubt it. I might try some sort of simple protocol this week and switch to that for a while. See what happens.

What do you guys think?
It gets complex very fast. Helen assumed that "the body knows best". The wisdom of the body and all that. I think that this should be a starting point for all, an axiom. The problem is that the body - once stuck in a chronic state - thinks short-term. It says "I can't afford to upregulate this X process because the produced ROS would damage me too much": it does not have the insight that this "short-term" damage would be crucial for it to "break the feedback loop" that is maintaining the chronic state. That's how I see it.

For the last 1-2 years I've been reading books about TCM and been following chinese medicine communities online. I met and talked to a few classically trained (way different than modernized/western version) chinese doctors. The consensus is: "if a patient is experiencing symptoms during treatment, you have failed to consider all aspects of the pattern". Some guy even said that he considers what we call herx/healing reactions to be completely avoidable and a sign of incomplete herbal formulation (aka sign of insufficient knowledge). However it's not herbalism as we know it in the west: consider that proper TCM docs very rarely prescribe pre-made formulas; they make up new ones that fit the specific pattern of the patient and modify them based on observable changes in the patient's physical appearance and behaviour (btw, most TCM docs I've talked to do say that inquiry - questioning the patient about their current symptoms, medical history, and lifestyle - is usually most informative, followed closely by tongue analysis and examination of other aspects of the body; but there was one that said that one of the best TCM doctor he knows requires his patients to be totally quiet for the duration of the examination: no talking takes place). And this is not 2-4 herbs at a time but rather 10-20 herbs (it is considered a great achievement if a doctor has very high treatment success rate and averages less than 10 herbs per formulation). This is totally unheard of here in the West. It gets very VERY expensive... Well, acupuncture and tuina and moxibustion and gua sha and so on - all these interventions can achieve more than "the best drug that conventional medicine can offer" if done correctly. But herbal therapy is still considered to be inavoidable in most complex chronic conditions in TCM... (Although I have met people with PFS and ME/CFS that "magically" recovered after 1-3 sessions of some TCM massage. So it's not a joke...) Supposedly TCM is the primary treatment method in like 10% of all hospitals in China, and in more than 40% of hospitals they have dedicated TCM departments.
All that being said, I think that for chronic health problems TCM herbal therapy simply isn't sustainable for most people. In the future it might become an elite/high class only thing. So maybe we need dynamic biochemistry refined by TCM principles and knowledge-base. I think TCM's pattern approach is basically what Helen (and Bruschi) was attempting to do via modern biochemistry (crucially, not the "static" kind of biology but rather systems biology). I have not yet came across a fruitful synthesis between the thought style that Helen excelled in and advanced TCM pattern-thinking. I think one could cure anything if they mastered both thought styles...

I think Helen grasped the essence of a good standard protocol for most people, a bit of fasting, chelation, good nutrition. But complex chronic conditions require a more nuanced bioindividual approach.
 

RebelWithACause

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What

It gets complex very fast. Helen assumed that "the body knows best". The wisdom of the body and all that. I think that this should be a starting point for all, an axiom. The problem is that the body - once stuck in a chronic state - thinks short-term. It says "I can't afford to upregulate this X process because the produced ROS would damage me too much": it does not have the insight that this "short-term" damage would be crucial for it to "break the feedback loop" that is maintaining the chronic state. That's how I see it.

For the last 1-2 years I've been reading books about TCM and been following chinese medicine communities online. I met and talked to a few classically trained (way different than modernized/western version) chinese doctors. The consensus is: "if a patient is experiencing symptoms during treatment, you have failed to consider all aspects of the pattern". Some guy even said that he considers what we call herx/healing reactions to be completely avoidable and a sign of incomplete herbal formulation (aka sign of insufficient knowledge). However it's not herbalism as we know it in the west: consider that proper TCM docs very rarely prescribe pre-made formulas; they make up new ones that fit the specific pattern of the patient and modify them based on observable changes in the patient's physical appearance and behaviour (btw, most TCM docs I've talked to do say that inquiry - questioning the patient about their current symptoms, medical history, and lifestyle - is usually most informative, followed closely by tongue analysis and examination of other aspects of the body; but there was one that said that one of the best TCM doctor he knows requires his patients to be totally quiet for the duration of the examination: no talking takes place). And this is not 2-4 herbs at a time but rather 10-20 herbs (it is considered a great achievement if a doctor has very high treatment success rate and averages less than 10 herbs per formulation). This is totally unheard of here in the West. It gets very VERY expensive... Well, acupuncture and tuina and moxibustion and gua sha and so on - all these interventions can achieve more than "the best drug that conventional medicine can offer" if done correctly. But herbal therapy is still considered to be inavoidable in most complex chronic conditions in TCM... (Although I have met people with PFS and ME/CFS that "magically" recovered after 1-3 sessions of some TCM massage. So it's not a joke...) Supposedly TCM is the primary treatment method in like 10% of all hospitals in China, and in more than 40% of hospitals they have dedicated TCM departments.
All that being said, I think that for chronic health problems TCM herbal therapy simply isn't sustainable for most people. In the future it might become an elite/high class only thing. So maybe we need dynamic biochemistry refined by TCM principles and knowledge-base. I think TCM's pattern approach is basically what Helen (and Bruschi) was attempting to do via modern biochemistry (crucially, not the "static" kind of biology but rather systems biology). I have not yet came across a fruitful synthesis between the thought style that Helen excelled in and advanced TCM pattern-thinking. I think one could cure anything if they mastered both thought styles...

I think Helen grasped the essence of a good standard protocol for most people, a bit of fasting, chelation, good nutrition. But complex chronic conditions require a more nuanced bioindividual approach.
Yes those herbs can help just look at cdsnuts. He used many herbs incl. Chinese ones and he was doing very good. But Helen also noted these herbs often "wasted glutathione" and they were often estrogenic. So might be good for some for others not. Herbs are also kind of a dirty way to get to the destination in that sense. Doesn't mean it's bad by all means but it's not super focussed on 1 problem. These herbs often have more than one effect. That's also the strength of the herbs.

I liked Helen's idea of focussing on a specific problem and using specific things to fix that problem. For him it was lead. For others it might be other stuff or multiple things. Now of course if you have been living extreme deficiencies first you have to get them up to normalcy most likely before you can do a more targeted approach. Just like they give vitamins and minerals before a EDTA chelation IV (as an example).
Or at least this will speed up the process.

I don't like to take a shitload of minerals/metals just to antagonise the opposite minerals. It is like a dirty way to get to the goal. To me it seems that way at least. And the longer I have been doing it the more I get to this conclusion and maybe it is also because I am oversaturated with these minerals that I start to dislike it subconciously. Because at the start I did like to take minerals and it was beneficial.

Anyways the TCM stuff is interesting. Would be cool to have more knowledge from that here too.
 

bruschi11

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Everything I’m saying is basically

Cu without thyroid is pro insulin anti potassium .

The Gbold consensus and I think many see it this way::: Thyroid pressuring potassium magnesium chloride essentially makes thyroid something you want to push last. Focus on fixing electrolytes in cell before pushing thyroid is that mindset. So focus on nad and methylation etc to put chloride in the cell.

I get it. That shit does need to happen.

But it’s completely neglecting the fact that cu2 is the insulin raising mineral. Legit. Strongly. Cu1 isn’t.

Thyroid is the key for cu2 to cu1.

Cu1 and nad convert sah to homocysteine. It is sah that was very high for me in 2023 the only methylation panel I’ve ever done. Supposedly many if not most with chronic illness have high sah.

I think this is why b5 helps so many. It just keeps tyrosine afloat with the bh4 cycle thriving and thyroid runs assuming iodine is in the body.

This post I feel may be the most if not the most relevant post I’ve ever made here. Cu1 is zinc finger. Assuming a lot is in place. But a lot has to be in place for cu1 to happen.

Reta needs to happen for glycogen when taking Elora. It is what it is. Elora can’t be taken standalone. Neither can Reta. They gotta be paired. And when they’re paired they’re doing the job. B12 is working,fat oxidation working iron copper being moved co2 being made to a degree. Cobalt coming up. Muscle going on body weight dropping.

In a lot of neurological pain and torture. But maybe I was meant for this.

Working a lot . Getting a lot of sun. Ocean every other day. I’ll do a mag bath weekly I guess as I did one last weekend.

Waiting for supps gonna do a special electrolyte drink with my doc with bunch of aminos in it. To drink throughout day.

Today I woke up sooooo bad. Then Reta gave me complete life. Elora was injected yesterday. Reta hadn’t been injected for over 5 days at that point.

Elora = hif1
Reta= VHL assuming iodine there sugar b12 a lot it’s scary. Copper .

This situation is difficult. But if body comp continues to improve. And honestly kind of rapidly is what we are looking for. Like the 22-25 lb thing in 2 months. I feel that’s reasonable to believe is possible.

I’m going 8 full weeks startint
on August 9th and ending on first few days of October. Of Reta/ Elora. Will start raising dose soon. The first week of August was a mess when I really started things tirz+ Reta without Elora messed me up bad. So I’m gonna scratch that week not include it in the totals but make sure I don’t go over 8 weeks on this cycle here.
 

bruschi11

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Going to take Elora and Reta on same day now. E3D. Took Elora standalone today and again didn’t love it. A big 1mg iodine dose helped. Reta just went in seems to do something.

On Tuesday will be first dose of week 3. I’m gonna increase the dose to .8 Reta 2x weekly. I’ve been doing .6. And Elora I’ve been doing .3. And I’m gonna move that to .4 .
 

bruschi11

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Man I’m just living day by day now. And I just am starting to ponder. Ok you just did some good with Reta/ Elora. But you been on the hard peps (I consider these and tirz hard) for about 23 days. Maybe do another 7 days. Complete a month cycle.

And realize…. That’s what Reta is good for. It’s a steroid cycle for fat oxidation.

A fat oxidation steroid cycle. In a fat person. Is going to cause neurological damage lol. Nadh is gonna hit b12 and co2 hard essentially.

I like what I did here. If I go from 241 to 234 in a one month cycle. I’m happy.

I lost weight the last time I got off. I do feel a cagri injection between both cycles did help. So I might give it two weeks and give a little low dose Elora.

As of now I’m planning for my last reta/ Elora to be on Tuesday but we will see.

I gave Reta kinda late day yesterday so it could just be hitting me too hard still.

But I’m at peace with what I’ve been doing. I think copper is coming up beyond both thyroid and potassium’s capacity. Needing the iodine rest food potassium protein drinks etc.

That I guess is typical Reta, detox type stuff. It’s good for a few weeks at a time. It’s almost like when Gbold said “take b1 in crazy doses for a few weeks. Then b2 after”.

Reta acts like b1 (b1 and Reta both can lead to inositol production) and then b2 / b12 based plan calls things down for electrolytes after.

I do look at meb12 as a big piece to b2 for a long time now. Ado as well. B2 needs inositol (b1 and reta) it needs a lot. Iodine big.

I think it’s cu1 the key to methylation. We are aiming to fix methylation atp thyroid. Not just body fat.
 

bruschi11

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Yea it’s the copper without thyroid thing going on again. It raises insulin.

I know the GLPs are a big reason for it right now .

Ultimately it’s hif1 without VHL. Which happens in this situation.
 

bruschi11

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I’m not stopping the peps. I get it. I need more rest. I got 3 weeks left. 6 weeks is the goal. I began on August 3rd we are going to say. The goal is another 3 weeks where I’d like to get off another 5 lbs. but I get it. If I can’t retain electrolytes, if I can’t lose weight, can’t work. I’ll know to end it this week.

I’m gonna give 3 full days off this time between injections. So I will not inject tomo. I will go on Wednesday and increase dose as I planned.