HELP from old members to new members

HerrFisch

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,060
OK, so people should follow ARL #1, and if they can't then they should follow "The Electrolyte Protocol" #2?

Its more likely the other way around.

ARL is just easier for people. You dont have to think but follow.

Electrolyte protocol is basically ARL suggestions + addon. But you need to understand your own results.

ARL will take its time I guess. And it will improve metabolism over time.

Electrolyte protocol with taking potassium & things that tank potassium (amongst other things) like Betain HCL, methyl-b's, etc will speed things up. And I guess you will see improvements faster.
But risk is, if you stop E.P too early or. do the wrong things, you could crash or fall back.

And I guess ARL suggestions could have times where you bad before you feel better. But you need to stay with it.
 

Yura

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,455
Btw don't eat "gluten free" flours made of 20 chemicals. That is even worse than regular wheat flour.. Eat naturally gluten free flours or flour products like rice, buckwheat, corn etc. or even better don't eat any kind of flour or flour products. Eat just naturally gluten free plants.. :)
 

Yura

Well-Known Member
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1,455
Quinoa is great. But very expensive here.. Gelatin can be a problem for some people, but hydrolyzed collagen should be ok..
edit- why you deleted your post. :D
 

MNK99

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,560
I thought it detracted from the post, I didn't want to detract... and pm'd you but my electronics (wifi, phones, etc) went out. Thank you Monopolistic Competition. @Yura. Thanks man!

For whatever reason quinoa and also Dahl/lentils hurt my digestion even before pfs*. And probably moreso now and with pssd* carbs hurt or I notice it more.

-Edit: I edit/delete most my posts to confuse others just in case, also.
-Yeah to anyone reading this I asked what about quinoa and collagen/gelatin?
 
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MNK99

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5,560
I always threw bread as an adult, even on airplanes, I'm like "I don't require that." It creates scenes at times, like when you're eating a pizza over the sink, in a hotel in Montreal with a fork, and discarding the crust... makes you look like a wackjob, you're friends are like "Wtf I've never seen that before"(story of my life). It's worth it tho.

If gluten/bread/etc suits someone, fine but likely not in pfs state initially.
 
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Yura

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,455
@ Yura
Im not talking about your case, but what is in general. This is why i said over (period of) time, which means when grain free you become b1 free and over time used up heavily b2 cause its the same enzyme where they work together, so again over time one become not only b1 free but also b2 free. Its just little bit more in perspective, but its what happens in reality and once b1, b2 free it takes more effort to reverse it.
I don't agree with your "gluten free= B1 free" The richest sources of thiamine are legumes which are gluten free. Gluten is in wheat, barley and people are eating these things basically almost exclusively in refined form like toast breads, pasta etc.. So you are telling me that avoiding toast bread, pasta, crackers etc. will lead to thiamine deficiency?
 

supernature

Member
Messages
921
I don't agree with your "gluten free= B1 free" The richest sources of thiamine are legumes which are gluten free. Gluten is in wheat, barley and people are eating these things basically almost exclusively in refined form like toast breads, pasta etc.. So you are telling me that avoiding toast bread, pasta, crackers etc. will lead to thiamine deficiency?


...
 
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Yura

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,455
You are giving me links "what is gluten" ? Heh you funny guy.. Anyway "Gluten free means b1, b2 free/deficient over time as well. " is nonsense because I just showed you that the richest source of B1 are legumes. So if you are gluten free, but you eat legumes or pork high in B1 or whatever how you can become B1 deficient over time? Makes no sense..
 

Yura

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,455
You seems to know everything, laughing usually and at same time you are saying you are of most need of help, how is that happening. You are making jokes of your own health, how can you get helped like that, only you know. If you think legumes are so rich in b1 you can eat them by a bucket a week. But how you gonna explain the nutri deficiencies on your never done OAT test then.
Heh why you making this so personal. Why you attacking me? You said "Gluten free means b1, b2 free/deficient over time as well." I said that you don't need to eat things with gluten to have thiamine in the diet. So where is the drama/controversy? Like a child lol..

vitamin B1 - thiamin
The Foods that Protect the Eyes, Brain Heart & More
 

bruschi11

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
2,971
I always threw bread as an adult, even on airplanes, I'm like "I don't require that." It creates scenes at times, like when you're eating a pizza over the sink, in a hotel in Montreal with a fork, and discarding the crust... makes you look like a wackjob, you're friends are like "Wtf I've never seen that before"(story of my life). It's worth it tho.

If gluten/bread/etc suits someone, fine but likely not in pfs state initially.

Lol what?! Can you explain further how you can eat pizza without ingesting the gluten?
 

Concerned

Well-Known Member
Messages
159
To any of the guys here with experience of this @bruschi11 @MNK99 @mattyb @TubZy @Goose12 and of course anybody else who can offer assistance with this.

I'm coming up to six days completed on the water fast (aiming for ten) and I need to start preparing how I'm going to break it and re-feed. I see over and over again that the re-feed is more crucial than the fast itself so I want to get this absolutely right to avoid wasting the work that's gone into the fast.

Firstly, do I reasonably need to worry about refeeding syndrome? According to this Refeeding syndrome: what it is, and how to prevent and treat it

"Any patient with negligible food intake for more than five days is at risk of developing refeeding problems."

However, I see multiple people on this forum who have done extended fasts with no mention of refeeding syndrome.

Do I need to be taking electrolyte supps during the fast and during the re-feed? I was going to start the electrolyte protocol once my refeed was complete, however, these quotes from the reddit fasting sub have me concerned:

"I can't see you mention electrolytes anywhere in your post and if you are doing numerous fasts you will be very deficient at this point. Fasting without electrolytes is extremely dangerous and bad for your health."

"Your body needs electrolytes to regulate all kind of things, some examples include: controlling your heart rhythm, nervous system and regulating your water balance. You need them to function basically and the nooby error is to take the name water fast seriously and only injest water, being deficient will make you feel bad and also it is dangerous to your health. This can be avoided with medical grade electrolyte supplements (usually capsules you can buy), rock salt which has salt and small amounts of many other electrolytes, LoSalt which has potassium and salt, or refined table salt which is salt and usually salt forms of iodine (an attempt to reduce iodine deficiency which affects about 2 billion people). The longer your fast the more you should take actual electrolyte supplements seriously as they will contain the right balance needed."

Once I know the answer to this I can order the supps from Amazon on next day delivery.

Secondly, I've looked around this forum and others for advice on what the food I re-feed with should be. I'm going to quote some of the advice I'm going to follow then
ask of you guys if there's anything I'm missing or anything that should be reconsidered considering my current pfs/cfs state:

"The important part is the proper refeed, which would include HCl and electrolytes, this is what causes the rebirth after fasting."

"Mattyb breaking fast protocol:
Days 1-7
Focus on mineral intake, particularly magnesium, sodium and potassium
Calories will still be low at this point, you'll likely regain some water weight but continue to lose fat
Vegetable broths, soups, well cooked vegetables, cooked leafy greens, etc.
Maybe some rice
Minimal herbs/spices
A bit of fats (eggs, butter) mixed in with the soups
Not very much protein, if any
Introduce food/calories slowly
"

As always, I have immense gratitude for any help that anyone can offer. You guys have already helped me so much so far.
 

Yura

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,455
What tests? If legumes have thiamine so you don't become B1 deficient on gluten free diet? :D
 

MNK99

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,560
@Concerned. "Firstly, do I reasonably need to worry about refeeding syndrome? According to this Refeeding syndrome: what it is, and how to prevent and treat it "
I don't think it will be a major concern at 4-5 days, it will be good to play it safe and refeed after 10, like Mattyb's outline. Not as bad as say 20 or a 40 or more day fast.
I think it took me longer to refeed than I thought and wanted to, but I'm glad that I did. @mattyb told me it can take the same time ast the fast all the way up to twice that to properly refeed.
 

hairsuit

Well-Known Member
Messages
460
Abso
@hairsuit

And maybe start your own thread to give us some information about you and where you can keep track of your improvements, what your doing etc.
absolutely I’ll do that. Still trying to soak in all the information I’m reading. Went and had a hair analysis done today, so, two weeks and I should get the results from that. Figured that was the best starting place.