HIGH and LOW DHT and PFS cases ( protocols , explanations, theories)

[RebelWithACause]

So who is free right now from any protocol? He should try one of these things. Or all of them so we can get information on this. With bloodwork would be nice but you will find out pretty easy: you feel good on the protocol you probably need to do the protocol that makes you feel worse. But who knows. It is guessing work anyways at the end of the day.

We have guys doing TEI, we have guys doing hormones (Anavar, DHT) now we need someone to do this.

TEI has merit IMO. I have seen improvements. ANY improvement is huge. Just like people do R-Andro and get higher baseline. Good thing about TEI is you have INFORMATION - the hairtest. This is why I am giving it at least 6 months to see if it is not just in my head but actual improvement.

Existing things that cured people: cdsnuts (herb cycling, R-Andro), finasteride cycling, progresterone cycling, Letrozole, GHB.

Problem with the above is they are fairly random and do not seem to give the same results with people still having (small) issues after doing the protocols.

We need to help each other here to get information on ALL new potential protocols. Otherwise we can keep guessing and making hypothesis. So who is up to this?

 

[Helen]

So who is free right now from any protocol? He should try one of these things. Or all of them so we can get information on this. With bloodwork would be nice but you will find out pretty easy: you feel good on the protocol you probably need to do the protocol that makes you feel worse. But who knows. It is guessing work anyways at the end of the day.

We have guys doing TEI, we have guys doing hormones (Anavar, DHT) now we need someone to do this.

We need to help each other here to get information on ALL potential protocols. Otherwise we can keep guessing and making hypothesis. So who is up to this?

This is still a discussion, there are no protocols really yet.

we need to understand what I wrote is correct or not. and if these people react to these things this way or not?


So we can may be have a better understanding these low and high DHT cases. May be I am wrong on this classification and it is the opposite.


I think finasteride tapering is the important thing I guess.

since fin and duta inhibit DHT a lot.

and then if DHT starts going too fast up during this DHT rise, the body could probably manage to downregulate some density. of AR , but not enough. And methylation takes over.


or even worse, if methylation does not take over, then the body shuts down 5AR. and NADPH. and thus insulin.

I remember someone was taking insulin intranasaly and feeling much better.


We do have high and low insulin levels in PFS. some insulin values are almost like diabetics in PFS

May be we can also classify people by their insulin level.

 

[Helen]

Thus, I think the finasteride tapering method is probably a valid method. you lower DHT and let it rise slowly. , lower it again and let is rise slowly, and during these rises the body downregulates the density of the ARs , if you raise DHT too fast. boom you got 2 problems.

you either 1) downregulate NADPH production which can be down by lowering g6pd enzyme, or you kill insulin. ( we do observe this ) I personally had insulin level of a diabetic in PFS,

2) you increase methylation and silence the AR. which will silence ARs in all places not only where DHT was.


So when people were tapering from fin, then need to taper number of days they are taking it. not the amount taken in one day. this way DHT would slowly have higher and higher spikes. and the body would have time to kill AR expression or gaba or whatever expression it has to do. but if it happens to fast, then the silencing mechanism or G6pd and insulin inhibition could happen, which just leads to ZERO folate levels, and folate deficiency would lead to low histidine, and libido. and crash

Thus some people feel better on folates.



So fin tapering method probably should be skip one day, , then skip too days, then skip 3 days, then skip 4 until you get to skip 2 weeks.

 

[RebelWithACause]

@Jack17 can try that.

 

[Admiral]

@Jack17 can try that.

If we could also have someone with low DHT try it, we're really making progress here.

 

[RebelWithACause]

Not sure if other people want to try it. I would do this as a last resort. Let's say Jack17 gets a good result from it I would at least consider this route.

But if you are in a "fuck it mode" I would say go for it. But know the risks.

 

[tanedout]

If we could also have someone with low DHT try it, we're really making progress here.

Didn’t Ocguy also take 1/4 of a fin cap?

@Ocguy do you know if your DHT is high or low? Anything to report from the fun?

 

[RebelWithACause]

I think he felt bad on it. Still interesting to know...

 

[Ocguy]

Didn’t Ocguy also take 1/4 of a fin cap?

@Ocguy do you know if your DHT is high or low? Anything to report from the fun?

It's right smack in the middle last time I checked.. yeah, I felt bloated and bags under my eyes on that 1/4 dose

I really don't feel like poisoning myself with it.. just going to keep working on my gut and getting minerals in line.

 

[jacknap]

So @Helen since a bunch of us are running TEI, do you see this as running along side of it, or replacing it? Or if we are running TEI, we should just give that a year? I just got genetic Testing done, and it’s interesting. I found out that my pathways essentially show that I will never be DHT dominant. So I would imagine I have always had low DHT, but am at risk of being estrogen dominant. I have very little body hair etc. My guess is that I fall in the naturally low DHT camp. And yet, somehow, harioss found its way to me.....

yeah @Area-1255 recommends prometheus on his blog to get third party results. I did ancestry dna and on my prometheus it says I have a gene that makes processing hormones bad. probably why I crashed from ru58841. I too had that crazy surge in libido/energy/confidence and then crashed. My testosterone/dht rebound was probably just too great and then it crashed me. Thing is I thought I was in the clear so was partying so hard during the surge so that made matters worse probably.

 

[jacknap]

Guys, also this was just a draft and I hope I did not get cases mixed up, since it is so complex.

This is why it would be best if some people with blood tests, try

1) gaba agonists
2) gaba antagonist( this DHM is interesting in this respect)
3) DHT or test

We know some folks got cured by GHB. but the questions is are they still taking it? or they took the cycle and got cured.

many folks mix the CURE with feeling good while taking something and it gets very confusing this way.

CURE is when you take nothing . and you have farely balanced hairtest, meaning no 4 highs and no 4 lows.

since it is much easier to go into 4 highs or 4 lows and feel more balanced as far as oxidation goes. and call this cure, it is not.

SO it would be very helpful if someone tries to play with their gaba receptor.

You see we also dont know how r andro effects the receptor. is it an agonist of the receptor or it actually increases the density of the receptor or it increases action of GABA on the receptor.

same as allopregnenolone, is it just an agonist of GABA A receptor or it increases the density of it. or it increases gaba action on the receptor

based on this information we should know if we want to use agonist or antagonist of gaba


Usually gaba increases calcium. so people with high calcium should have high gaba action. But it also could be that high calcium actually inhibits gaba action.


This is why urecholine helps people with PSSD since it lowers calcium by increasing acetylcholine.


That is why it is very important that people get tested and then experiment so they can help the others if succesful.


Since as we know people react to things completely differently with different outcomes.

some get a little btter on anavar, others get worse on anavar etc while off of it. as an example.

ghb is my favourite drug ever. can we take this recreationally when cured or even on cds protocol lmao

 

[Goose12]

Guys, also this was just a draft and I hope I did not get cases mixed up, since it is so complex.

This is why it would be best if some people with blood tests, try

1) gaba agonists
2) gaba antagonist( this DHM is interesting in this respect)
3) DHT or test

We know some folks got cured by GHB. but the questions is are they still taking it? or they took the cycle and got cured.

many folks mix the CURE with feeling good while taking something and it gets very confusing this way.

CURE is when you take nothing . and you have farely balanced hairtest, meaning no 4 highs and no 4 lows.

since it is much easier to go into 4 highs or 4 lows and feel more balanced as far as oxidation goes. and call this cure, it is not.

SO it would be very helpful if someone tries to play with their gaba receptor.

You see we also dont know how r andro effects the receptor. is it an agonist of the receptor or it actually increases the density of the receptor or it increases action of GABA on the receptor.

same as allopregnenolone, is it just an agonist of GABA A receptor or it increases the density of it. or it increases gaba action on the receptor

based on this information we should know if we want to use agonist or antagonist of gaba


Usually gaba increases calcium. so people with high calcium should have high gaba action. But it also could be that high calcium actually inhibits gaba action.


This is why urecholine helps people with PSSD since it lowers calcium by increasing acetylcholine.


That is why it is very important that people get tested and then experiment so they can help the others if succesful.


Since as we know people react to things completely differently with different outcomes.

some get a little btter on anavar, others get worse on anavar etc while off of it. as an example.

A quick way to figure out how you feel on a gaba agonist is to drink some alcohol. So people who feel good on alcohol need to take a gaba antagonist and if you feel bad on alcohol you need a gaba agonist, like alcohol.

Signs of high and low gaba are the same, anxiety, low labido, no emotions, and insomnia.

I have been abstaining from alcohol for the most part but when I have drank i felt better.

 

[hairsuit]

Thus, I think the finasteride tapering method is probably a valid method. you lower DHT and let it rise slowly. , lower it again and let is rise slowly, and during these rises the body downregulates the density of the ARs , if you raise DHT too fast. boom you got 2 problems.

you either 1) downregulate NADPH production which can be down by lowering g6pd enzyme, or you kill insulin. ( we do observe this ) I personally had insulin level of a diabetic in PFS,

2) you increase methylation and silence the AR. which will silence ARs in all places not only where DHT was.


So when people were tapering from fin, then need to taper number of days they are taking it. not the amount taken in one day. this way DHT would slowly have higher and higher spikes. and the body would have time to kill AR expression or gaba or whatever expression it has to do. but if it happens to fast, then the silencing mechanism or G6pd and insulin inhibition could happen, which just leads to ZERO folate levels, and folate deficiency would lead to low histidine, and libido. and crash

Thus some people feel better on folates.



So fin tapering method probably should be skip one day, , then skip too days, then skip 3 days, then skip 4 until you get to skip 2 weeks.

That’s exactly what I did first time I quit Fin. No issues whatsoever. Second time, quit cold turkey. Not so lucky....

 

[RebelWithACause]

A quick way to figure out how you feel on a gaba agonist is to drink some alcohol. So people who feel good on alcohol need to take a gaba antagonist and if you feel bad on alcohol you need a gaba agonist, like alcohol.

Signs of high and low gaba are the same, anxiety, low labido, no emotions, and insomnia.

I have been abstaining from alcohol for the most part but when I have drank i felt better.

Good one. I felt better after drinking alcohol, in the hangover. When I drank alcohol by itself nothing worth noting. But for two days after I felt very good.

 

[brix]

Good one. I felt better after drinking alcohol, in the hangover. When I drank alcohol by itself nothing worth noting. But for two days after I felt very good.

I get drunk very easily nowadays. Feels good, but feel even better when I’m hungover. Full libido and erections come back after a night of 10+ drinks. Very rare for me to do that but works every time.

 

[Admiral]

So weird how alcohol all effects us differently. I get drunk easily and have awful hangovers. Libido and erection quality is even worse then.

 

[Admiral]

ghb is my favourite drug ever. can we take this recreationally when cured or even on cds protocol lmao

I take it frequently for recreational use. It's awesome, but wouldn't want to use it daily. It's very easy to get addicted to.

 

[jacknap]

I take it frequently for recreational use. It's awesome, but wouldn't want to use it daily. It's very easy to get addicted to.

do u know a good source? hard as shit to get for me. and I heard some of the stuff is made dangerously. I use phenibut twice a week and I love it but GHB is next level. I wouldn't use it more then twice a week either for a show or major sex session lollll are u on cdnuts protocol though? I dont want to compromise my last bits of recovery if it's not good for it but I love GHB lol I admit I used it once while recovering and it actually might've helped a bit. It definitely didn't hurt.

 

[Admiral]

I don’t have a source, but it’s the Netherlands; very easy to get your hands on any kind of drugs. Friends of mine usually keep a liter orso in the fridge. It works very narrow, though. It usually knocks me out whenever I take too much. I feel awesome then, but shortly thereafter I’m blacking out and act weird, something I never recall (around 5ml seems best. I take it about 3 to 10 times on a good night, with 1,5 hours in between each time, combined with some xtc or amfetamine). Sleep like a baby for 3 hours and during that time it’s impossible to wake up. Sleep will be short and deprived a bit the following days. It’s taste is disgusting, though. Makes me want to gag. We usually mix it with strong flavored soda but even then it’s awful. Hard on the gums as well, so be careful.

After that, I’m always done with the drug for another while. Can’t vision myself taking it several times a week.

 

[brix]

So weird how alcohol all effects us differently. I get drunk easily and have awful hangovers. Libido and erection quality is even worse then.

We’re pretty similar. Fast one with low androgens. I just have to be very hungover for that to happen.