Jack17 PFS log

[ncsugrad]

Update:
Labs came in today. Testosterone 974 (10days after two drops of avodart) compared to 874 last month. Previously 800. (264-916). Free test 9.4 comparted to 9.1 last month, previously 7 (7.2-24). DHT 66 compared to 57 (30-85) previously around 83.

I've been feeling essentally at about 95% regarding ED and libido past 6 days or so. I'm very please with protocol so far, but too early to make any conclusions.

It’s weird how similar my blood tests were last time. High total test, low free test, mid range DHT

Keep us updated. I hope it continues to work this well!

Are you planning on spreading the doses out further and further or what? Or just going to keep it to once a week dosing indefinitely?

It’s especially cool to me that your free test is increasing month after month. Mine has been below the ref range every time I’ve tested it

 

[RebelWithACause]

Hey @RebelWithACause i probably sound like a broken record but hear me out

I've been stating for a while pfs is related to the Androgen receptor insensitivity and down regulation. We know fin up regulates the AR so, in theory, a low free test state (or any numbers of these test) would be only a small portion of the whole picture. We commonly see normal levels of all hormones in pfs ppl but they're not benefitng or uptaking these hormones.

So the free test or dht levels matter less than, if there was a test for, androgen receptor density and sensitivity. FTR, estrogen sensitizes the male AR, which is where libido originates.

This experiment by jack shows me a ton of data and supports my theory, a theory others are now saying is wrong but theirs. Lol

Anyhow, scary to test, but the evidence is startlingly close to what i expected. And why some ppl cycle fin during steroid cycles numerous times and never get pfs

I know free T does not matter in PFS. But I know fin/dut cause low free T. Which could be a reason why some/a lot of people feel like dogshit on the drug. I was saying it to demonstrate that total T does not matter if everything goes to estrogen and SHBG. That is purely about life quality if you want to stay on a drug like fin/dut.

I don't know which theory is better or fits better. I just don't know. I am trying things out just like everybody here. The more different things we try the faster we can get to a "fast cure".

PFStinks never gave more info from his cycling of finasteride as far as I know. Which makes the risk higher. Did his hairloss come back? Is everything back to what it was? Or what?

Also you got to know if you go on ANY progestin (deca, npp, finasteride, dutasteride) you will feel recovered since you will be back in your old (finasteride) body chemistry. So when someone is on it, you cannot say if it works. The results need to be off the drug. There was a guy on PH who went on nandrolone. Woke up with morning wood, erections, sex drive, etc. But off it, gone.

If you want to test it out the fin cycling you can do it but it is risky as you say. Maybe do a trial with a small group. Maybe if you are desperate for a result as soon as possible then you can do it - to see if it can fix PFS quick. I am really committed to TEI right now I want to see where it ends. If it can fix someone in PFS. But it is always good if people try other stuff. Just don't fuck yourself up... and that is the hard thing with this shit. It is higher risk for sure.

 

[joekool]

Hey @RebelWithACause

Agreed agreed

Glad to bounce these ideas off the ppl here...

We'll find the balance and cure... I'm sure of it

 

[Helen]

Hey @RebelWithACause

Agreed agreed

Glad to bounce these ideas off the ppl here...

We'll find the balance and cure... I'm sure of it

arguing with you is like a drilling a hole in my head LOL

They did test the receptor density in PFS which I posted to you million times.

 

[Helen]

Update:
Labs came in today. Testosterone 974 (10days after two drops of avodart) compared to 874 last month. Previously 800. (264-916). Free test 9.4 comparted to 9.1 last month, previously 7 (7.2-24). DHT 66 compared to 57 (30-85) previously around 83.

I've been feeling essentally at about 95% regarding ED and libido past 6 days or so. I'm very please with protocol so far, but too early to make any conclusions.

this makes sense, you are suppressing yourself with duta, your test and estrogen rises. just like on fin

 

[Helen]

Also don't forget he is taking Sam-E

he was taking Same and Duta and had no problems, then came off an crashed. now he is taking Same and duta again.

The idea to see here when you come off the drug what happens, Duta has a long half life 4-5 weeks

 

[jinstewart]

Simply amazing update and experiment for the greater good of the team!

Heavens! Yeah, crazy fearless nutcase!

You go Jack17!

 

[Jack17]

Update
Still doing really well with this protocol. I’ve been doing this about three months. A couple weeks ago I changed to avodart from propecia. IMO it’s important to dose every one to two weeks or more. I just took another avodart 2 drop dose yesterday. It has been almost four weeks from previous dose. I still feel good. I’ve essentially resumed a normal sex life with my wife, and that’s huge! No genital numbness. Achieve erection much more easily and quickly ( est at 90-95% this can be a little mental now just worried about the past problem) libido 95%. I used to have like a raging libido with a trigger to anger if my wife didn’t want to every night and I’m not there now ( pre pfs) but not sure that was healthy! Hair is good. The end point would be off the drug but at this point I may try to continue the intermittent dosing with the thought that there is a re sensitizing of the AR from transiently decreasing DHT with avodart. I had a sustained recovery last summer for 6+ weeks after dosing progesterone and Ella and then stopped. But I did relapse. So I’m not ready to stop since it’s going well. And if there is a sweet spot with a small dose every couple weeks, maybe the longer it lasts, the more durable the recovery, idk. So I think this protocol is a good option if you are willing to take the risk. For now, I think having a high DHT may be a favorable marker to respond to this. I will continue to report back with update weekly and I plan to repeat my labs monthly.

 

[JasonSky]

Update
Still doing really well with this protocol. I’ve been doing this about three months. A couple weeks ago I changed to avodart from propecia. IMO it’s important to dose every one to two weeks or more. I just took another avodart 2 drop dose yesterday. It has been almost four weeks from previous dose. I still feel good. I’ve essentially resumed a normal sex life with my wife, and that’s huge! No genital numbness. Achieve erection much more easily and quickly ( est at 90-95% this can be a little mental now just worried about the past problem) libido 95%. I used to have like a raging libido with a trigger to anger if my wife didn’t want to every night and I’m not there now ( pre pfs) but not sure that was healthy! Hair is good. The end point would be off the drug but at this point I may try to continue the intermittent dosing with the thought that there is a re sensitizing of the AR from transiently decreasing DHT with avodart. I had a sustained recovery last summer for 6+ weeks after dosing progesterone and Ella and then stopped. But I did relapse. So I’m not ready to stop since it’s going well. And if there is a sweet spot with a small dose every couple weeks, maybe the longer it lasts, the more durable the recovery, idk. So I think this protocol is a good option if you are willing to take the risk. For now, I think having a high DHT may be a favorable marker to respond to this. I will continue to report back with update weekly and I plan to repeat my labs monthly.

Atta boy, how did you get hold of the avodart drops? Did you just have to get a prescription similar to fin or do you have a source?

 

[joekool]

You can find the research chem version of these. It’s where I used fin and you can use like two drops which would be so minuscule, the risk would be minimal and supports the theory that @Jack17 has bravely shown.

 

[Helen]

We need to see off the drug, half life of duta is 5 weeks, this is the same as taking fin every 3-4 days.

Pfstinks has been doing this for a year now , and would be nice to see his update. I wrote to him in PM , but no answer.

but we need to see off the drug, swinging around DHT sweet spot. is ok, but it does not show us anything.

I think raising DHT many times, downregulates the protein levels not upregulates.

 

[ncsugrad]

Update
Still doing really well with this protocol. I’ve been doing this about three months. A couple weeks ago I changed to avodart from propecia. IMO it’s important to dose every one to two weeks or more. I just took another avodart 2 drop dose yesterday. It has been almost four weeks from previous dose. I still feel good. I’ve essentially resumed a normal sex life with my wife, and that’s huge! No genital numbness. Achieve erection much more easily and quickly ( est at 90-95% this can be a little mental now just worried about the past problem) libido 95%. I used to have like a raging libido with a trigger to anger if my wife didn’t want to every night and I’m not there now ( pre pfs) but not sure that was healthy! Hair is good. The end point would be off the drug but at this point I may try to continue the intermittent dosing with the thought that there is a re sensitizing of the AR from transiently decreasing DHT with avodart. I had a sustained recovery last summer for 6+ weeks after dosing progesterone and Ella and then stopped. But I did relapse. So I’m not ready to stop since it’s going well. And if there is a sweet spot with a small dose every couple weeks, maybe the longer it lasts, the more durable the recovery, idk. So I think this protocol is a good option if you are willing to take the risk. For now, I think having a high DHT may be a favorable marker to respond to this. I will continue to report back with update weekly and I plan to repeat my labs monthly.

Awesome. Good luck... hope it keeps working for you or you can slowly stretch out the time between doses to the point that you can stop taking it and still feel normal

I know what you mean about the being pissed if it wasn't every night.. in hindsight I USED to do that (girlfriend, not wife), but after I started on this stuff I wasn't like that anymore. At the time it was probably a good thing but is a sign to me (in hindsight anyways) that it had been affecting my libido for quite some time

 

[wuf]

We need to see off the drug, half life of duta is 5 weeks, this is the same as taking fin every 3-4 days.

Pfstinks has been doing this for a year now , and would be nice to see his update. I wrote to him in PM , but no answer.

but we need to see off the drug, swinging around DHT sweet spot. is ok, but it does not show us anything.

I think raising DHT many times, downregulates the protein levels not upregulates.

So, the mechanism here is to make DHT lower (not to suppress it) and once it comes back, this is the moment it is going to dowregulates the AR.
And is this the same mechanism of using R-Andro? DHT goes back up and it downregulates the AR...and I guess it would be more usefull to use a little amount of R-Andro instead of a big dose.

 

[hairsuit]

So for those of us with low DHT, we would need to do the opposite, correct? Increase DHt? It would be the same process, but like what @wuf is suggesting, we micro dose r-Andro?

 

[Jack17]

It’s just a theory and I’m not sure of the exact mechanism( no one knows with certainty) . It could be down regulating AR or re-sensitizing something that have become resistant (AR) because of the sudden higher levels of shy that had been suppressed. i would think this protocol would be more effective for guys with higher DHT but I don’t think anyone with low has tried it.
Something needs to be reset. Rebooted!

 

[Jack17]

Another update. I was going to update weekly as day to day changes are unreliable but like my previous post explained, after the dose you feel suppressed and then better after days to week and then even better than baseline hopefully. Each cycle I have improved more. This time , I took the dose Monday and had no real drop and then last night felt even better. MW like all night. ( that’s what used to happen when I restarted avodart in the past)
I think I had explained previously, I used to go on and off avodart every year for a month or two and then restart. My complete lack of understanding was that maybe you should not stay on this continually. Then when I would go back on, I typically have s boost in libido ( though nothing was wrong at all!! With my libido) it seemed like I’d lose a couple pounds and gain a little muscle mass. The point is, this could be another sign things maybe normalizing. The longer this works the more confident I am. Time will tell.

 

[Jack17]

It would be great to get an update from pfstinks and dasjes. Did they even check DHT levels prior to starting regimen??! If this is ever going to be a recommended protocol we need more info to help decrease the risk for those who try it. I tried to message both with no reply. I know there are many case with people trying to go back on propecia and then are worse but I don’t know any cases with taking such a small dose intermittently and then have done worse.

 

[Helen]

It would be great to get an update from pfstinks and dasjes. Did they even check DHT levels prior to starting regimen??! If this is ever going to be a recommended protocol we need more info from more guys to help decrease the risk for those who try it. I tried to message both with no reply. I know there are many case with people trying to go back on propecia and then are worse but I don’t know any cases with taking such a small dose intermittently and then have done worse.

I also wrote to PFS stinks, he does not answer, another guy who tried this crashed, as tandenout posted.

We should not forget that you are taking Sam-e

finasteride as we know causes low same. and taking same along with accutane got rid of all side effects of accutane

 

[Helen]

Another update. I was going to update weekly as day to day changes are unreliable but like my previous post explained, after the dose you feel suppressed and then better after days to week and then even better than baseline hopefully. Each cycle I have improved more. This time , I took the dose Monday and had no real drop and then last night felt even better. MW like all night. ( that’s what used to happen when I restarted avodart in the past)
I think I had explained previously, I used to go on and off avodart every year for a month or two and then restart. My complete lack of understanding was that maybe you should not stay on this continually. Then when I would go back on, I typically have s boost in libido ( though nothing was wrong at all!! With my libido) it seemed like I’d lose a couple pounds and gain a little muscle mass. The point is, this could be another sign things maybe normalizing. The longer this works the more confident I am. Time will tell.

if you have no drop, then it means that it has nothing to do with DHT. at all, it has to do with estrogen and testosterone.


.

 

[Helen]

I think the idea of this was that when you take FIN or duta for along time, you have insane number of protein ARs in all DHT sensitive tissues,
and then when you quit, DHT goes high and since DHT is critical for aldosterone regulation , body has to shut it down, and it loses either zinc finger, or may be methylation. of the histone.

So then when you take fin low dose, this turns off the block of the AR like zinc starts to go in. and stay in

and when DHT rises it slowly time over time, lowers numbers of ARs. And then you lose less and less zinc, and eventually you dont lose zinc anymore

and then you have high DHT and also zinc. thus everything works.


so it is the disregulation between progesterone metabolism and high protein levels in the DHT sensitive tissues , which basically kill testosterone receptors. since zinc is lost from then, and without zinc you cant have protein synthesis.


this explains why Mario vitaly was helped with what he was helped with. Pyroluria treatment b1 zinc

b1 pushes DHT high , and zinc you force it. and this downregulates the protein levels of the AR and overtime you are fixed.

same with taking fin,

when you take fin, DHT goes down, body turns off the protection, zinc goes back in, and then DHT slowly rises and this causes AR protein levels to downregulate.

So I think the problem is that AR levels are too huge , and when DHT rises, body has no time to downregulate those. and it has to switch on the mechanism to mute it.

this explains how people got fixed on r andro also.